Queensland 400

[waldo]

Although I know that the QLD is still about 6 weeks away, any forum members that plan to attend keep an eye out for the family dressed in black between turns 2 and 3 with the cooler box below, come up say hello and introduce yourself.

[fordmad17]

I will be there on the friday

[Chev_350]

Am planning to be there all 3 days

[Chev_350]

Any more people going?

[waldo]

Will only be there for Sunday due to budget consraints.:)

[mick xu1]

We will be there the 3 days

[fordmad17]

09WNS and I will be there friday happy snapping

[Chev_350]

09WNS and I will be there friday happy snapping

You guys interested in a small gathering?

[fordmad17]

You guys interested in a small gathering?

For sure

[HRT 1-2]

Not sure why some of the regular drivers are included?:confused:

Friday : Practice1
Pos Car Entrant Driver Vehicle Laps Fastest Lap Fastest Lap Time Gap
1 39 Supercheap Auto Racing Russell Ingall Holden Commodore VE 7 4 1:11.9133
2 18 Jim Beam Racing Steve Owen Ford Falcon BF 13 12 1:12.1897 0:00.2764
3 3 Sprint Gas Racing Jason Richards Holden Commodore VE 14 9 1:12.2443 0:00.3310
4 9 SP Tools Racing Shane Van Gisbergen Ford Falcon BF 10 9 1:12.2889 0:00.3756
5 17 Jim Beam Racing Warren Luff Ford Falcon BF 17 11 1:12.3412 0:00.4279
6 15 HSV Dealer Team Paul Radisich Holden Commodore VE 15 12 1:12.3421 0:00.4288
7 1 Toll Holden Racing Team Craig Baird Holden Commodore VE 15 12 1:12.4542 0:00.5409
8 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport David Besnard Ford Falcon BF 19 17 1:12.4902 0:00.5769
9 12 Team BOC Andrew Jones Holden Commodore VE 6 6 1:12.6292 0:00.7159
10 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BF 5 5 1:12.6402 0:00.7269
11 5 Ford Performance Racing Dean Canto Ford Falcon BF 16 12 1:12.6695 0:00.7562
12 67 Supercheap Auto Racing Paul Morris Holden Commodore VE 7 4 1:12.6766 0:00.7633
13 34 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Michael Caruso Holden Commodore VE 12 12 1:12.8134 0:00.9001
14 2 Toll Holden Racing Team Glenn Seton Holden Commodore VE 16 15 1:12.8763 0:00.9630
15 55 Rod Nash Racing Jason Bargwanna Holden Commodore VE 16 16 1:12.9756 0:01.0623
16 777 Ausdrill Ford Rising Stars Grant Denyer Ford Falcon BF 17 17 1:12.9918 0:01.0785
17 6 Ford Performance Racing Luke Youlden Ford Falcon BF 13 11 1:13.1248 0:01.2115
18 51 Sprint Gas Racing Mark Noske Holden Commodore VE 18 17 1:13.1481 0:01.2348
19 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Jack Perkins Holden Commodore VE 5 3 1:13.2029 0:01.2896
20 021 Team Kiwi Racing Adam Macrow Ford Falcon BF 14 14 1:13.2838 0:01.3705
21 14 Team WOW Brad Jones Holden Commodore VE 19 18 1:13.4139 0:01.5006
22 16 Autobarn Racing Team David Reynolds Holden Commodore VE 16 8 1:13.5697 0:01.6564
23 26 IRWIN Racing Marcus Marshall Ford Falcon BF 2 2 1:22.0030 0:10.0897
24 11 Jack Daniel's Racing Shane Price Holden Commodore VE 3
25 50 PWR Performance Products Andrew Thompson Holden Commodore VE 1

[HRT 1-2]

Friday : Practice2
Pos Car Entrant Driver Vehicle Laps Fastest Lap Fastest Lap Time Gap
1 2 Toll Holden Racing Team Mark Skaife Holden Commodore VE 9 7 1:11.5946
2 111 Glenfords Racing Fabian Coulthard Ford Falcon BF 13 8 1:11.6251 0:00.0305
3 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon BF 12 12 1:11.6376 0:00.0430
4 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon BF 12 12 1:11.6856 0:00.0910
5 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon BF 14 11 1:11.7846 0:00.1900
6 1 Toll Holden Racing Team Garth Tander Holden Commodore VE 12 12 1:11.8329 0:00.2383
7 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon BF 16 16 1:11.8343 0:00.2397
8 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon BF 17 12 1:11.8352 0:00.2406
9 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon BF 14 10 1:11.8403 0:00.2457
10 39 Supercheap Auto Racing Russell Ingall Holden Commodore VE 12 3 1:11.8479 0:00.2533
11 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore VE 18 16 1:11.9186 0:00.3240
12 9 SP Tools Racing Shane Van Gisbergen Ford Falcon BF 15 7 1:11.9321 0:00.3375
13 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon BF 11 11 1:11.9442 0:00.3496
14 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Todd Kelly Holden Commodore VE 12 4 1:11.9679 0:00.3733
15 3 Sprint Gas Racing Jason Richards Holden Commodore VE 15 3 1:12.0680 0:00.4734
16 34 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Michael Caruso Holden Commodore VE 15 15 1:12.1035 0:00.5089
17 51 Sprint Gas Racing Greg Murphy Holden Commodore VE 15 15 1:12.2147 0:00.6201
18 15 HSV Dealer Team Rick Kelly Holden Commodore VE 11 9 1:12.2878 0:00.6932
19 12 Team BOC Andrew Jones Holden Commodore VE 12 12 1:12.3245 0:00.7299
20 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BF 10 4 1:12.3535 0:00.7589
21 67 Supercheap Auto Racing Paul Morris Holden Commodore VE 16 13 1:12.3569 0:00.7623
22 14 Team WOW Cameron McConville Holden Commodore VE 13 13 1:12.4170 0:00.8224
23 16 Autobarn Racing Team Paul Dumbrell Holden Commodore VE 15 8 1:12.4964 0:00.9018
24 55 Rod Nash Racing Tony D'Alberto Holden Commodore VE 20 19 1:12.5856 0:00.9910
25 26 IRWIN Racing Marcus Marshall Ford Falcon BF 15 15 1:12.5933 0:00.9987
26 11 Jack Daniel's Racing Shane Price Holden Commodore VE 16 12 1:12.6466 0:01.0520
27 777 Ausdrill Ford Rising Stars Michael Patrizi Ford Falcon BF 15 14 1:13.5931 0:01.9985

[Holdennumber1]

Thanks for the times.:) Go Skaifey!!!!

[HRT 1-2]

Don't get too excited!!

Friday : Practice
Pos Car Entrant Driver Vehicle Laps Fastest Lap Fastest Lap Time Gap
1 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon BF 24 22 1:10.7210
2 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon BF 32 28 1:10.8965 0:00.1755
3 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon BF 29 25 1:10.9192 0:00.1982
4 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon BF 25 23 1:10.9362 0:00.2152
5 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon BF 27 24 1:10.9529 0:00.2319
6 39 Supercheap Auto Racing Russell Ingall Holden Commodore VE 27 24 1:10.9548 0:00.2338
7 2 Toll Holden Racing Team Mark Skaife Holden Commodore VE 27 24 1:10.9575 0:00.2365
8 1 Toll Holden Racing Team Garth Tander Holden Commodore VE 29 29 1:11.0993 0:00.3783
9 3 Sprint Gas Racing Jason Richards Holden Commodore VE 21 16 1:11.1106 0:00.3896
10 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon BF 30 25 1:11.1911 0:00.4701
11 111 Glenfords Racing Fabian Coulthard Ford Falcon BF 26 24 1:11.1964 0:00.4754
12 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore VE 29 26 1:11.2289 0:00.5079
13 16 Autobarn Racing Team Paul Dumbrell Holden Commodore VE 33 32 1:11.2307 0:00.5097
14 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon BF 23 19 1:11.2383 0:00.5173
15 67 Supercheap Auto Racing Paul Morris Holden Commodore VE 27 27 1:11.2444 0:00.5234
16 9 SP Tools Racing Shane Van Gisbergen Ford Falcon BF 28 18 1:11.2716 0:00.5506
17 12 Team BOC Andrew Jones Holden Commodore VE 29 29 1:11.2807 0:00.5597
18 14 Team WOW Cameron McConville Holden Commodore VE 26 25 1:11.3488 0:00.6278
19 34 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Michael Caruso Holden Commodore VE 25 25 1:11.3965 0:00.6755
20 15 HSV Dealer Team Rick Kelly Holden Commodore VE 29 21 1:11.4343 0:00.7133
21 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BF 29 27 1:11.4861 0:00.7651
22 51 Sprint Gas Racing Greg Murphy Holden Commodore VE 28 24 1:11.5040 0:00.7830
23 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Todd Kelly Holden Commodore VE 21 19 1:11.6487 0:00.9277
24 26 IRWIN Racing Marcus Marshall Ford Falcon BF 26 26 1:11.7589 0:01.0379
25 777 Ausdrill Ford Rising Stars Michael Patrizi Ford Falcon BF 35 34 1:11.7677 0:01.0467
26 11 Jack Daniel's Racing Shane Price Holden Commodore VE 33 32 1:11.8092 0:01.0882
27 55 Rod Nash Racing Tony D'Alberto Holden Commodore VE 28 28 1:11.8346 0:01.1136
28 50 PWR Performance Products Andrew Thompson Holden Commodore VE 26 26 1:11.9074 0:01.1864
29 021 Team Kiwi Racing Kayne Scott Ford Falcon BF 30 30 1:12.7718 0:02.0508

[tigerpete]

5 straight fords :)

[gab73]

Ingall the first Holden.

[Kashmir]

it's only practice,Tander should be up there tomorrow.

[fordmad17]

Was There today a great day

[HRT 1-2]

5 straight fords :)

No use partying Friday, no racing today!!:p

[Chev_350]

Little annoyed about yesterday, for 2 reasons. 1. I am sick and should have stayed home so I would be better today and sunday and 2. even though all the little food vans have coke on their menu boards and the only permenant food stand has big coke signs, it looks like the track has done a deal with pepsi, the main tower is now yello with Solo signage replacing WPS, (they got out of the sport quick) and all you can get is Pepsi/Solo at the track......

[fordmad17]

And I thought the crowd was well down on previous years as well. It was very easy to get around and get things signs.

[brchi17]

Not sure why some of the regular drivers are included?:confused:

Friday : Practice1
Pos Car Entrant Driver Vehicle Laps Fastest Lap Fastest Lap Time Gap
1 39 Supercheap Auto Racing Russell Ingall Holden Commodore VE 7 4 1:11.9133
2 18 Jim Beam Racing Steve Owen Ford Falcon BF 13 12 1:12.1897
3 3 Sprint Gas Racing Jason Richards Holden Commodore VE 14 9 1:12.2443
4 9 SP Tools Racing Shane Van Gisbergen Ford Falcon BF 10 9 1:12.2889
5 17 Jim Beam Racing Warren Luff Ford Falcon BF 17 11 1:12.3412
6 15 HSV Dealer Team Paul Radisich Holden Commodore VE 15 12 1:12.3421
7 1 Toll Holden Racing Team Craig Baird Holden Commodore VE 15 12 1:12.4542
8 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport David Besnard Ford Falcon BF 19 17 1:12.4902
9 12 Team BOC Andrew Jones Holden Commodore VE 6 6 1:12.6292
10 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BF 5 5 1:12.6402
11 5 Ford Performance Racing Dean Canto Ford Falcon BF 16 12 1:12.6695
12 67 Supercheap Auto Racing Paul Morris Holden Commodore VE 7 4 1:12.6766
13 34 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Michael Caruso Holden Commodore VE 12 12 1:12.8134
14 2 Toll Holden Racing Team Glenn Seton Holden Commodore VE 16 15 1:12.8763
15 55 Rod Nash Racing Jason Bargwanna Holden Commodore VE 16 16 1:12.9756
16 777 Ausdrill Ford Rising Stars Grant Denyer Ford Falcon BF 17 17 1:12.9918
17 6 Ford Performance Racing Luke Youlden Ford Falcon BF 13 11 1:13.1248
18 51 Sprint Gas Racing Mark Noske Holden Commodore VE 18 17 1:13.1481
19 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Jack Perkins Holden Commodore VE 5 3 1:13.2029
20 021 Team Kiwi Racing Adam Macrow Ford Falcon BF 14 14 1:13.2838
21 14 Team WOW Brad Jones Holden Commodore VE 19 18 1:13.4139
22 16 Autobarn Racing Team David Reynolds Holden Commodore VE 16 8 1:13.5697
23 26 IRWIN Racing Marcus Marshall Ford Falcon BF 2 2 1:22.0030
24 11 Jack Daniel's Racing Shane Price Holden Commodore VE 3
25 50 PWR Performance Products Andrew Thompson Holden Commodore VE 1

That's because this session the 3rd of the Endurance Co-Driver sessions (there was one at Eastern Creek & Sandown beforehand), awesome performance once again by Steve Owen, to be the best of the endurance co-drivers. I've highlighted the actual co-drivers in Bold, as some teams chose to leave their regular drivers in their regular cars.

[GOBBO]

just read in the satdys paper ingall is whinging that the parity must be brought in to to bring threfords back to holden .
i was wondering how long before the bulls&^t started.

[Kashmir]

i think Holden's lack of success has alot to do with Tander fighting a lone battle against several Ford drivers.

[malscar]

just read in the satdys paper ingall is whinging that the parity must be brought in to to bring threfords back to holden .
i was wondering how long before the bulls&^t started.

This appeared on the V8 website yesterday.
http://www.v8supercar.com.au/content/hero_news/jul y08/parity_debate_re-ignited/

[tigerpete]

morris v8 supercars "boring" http://www.v8supercar.com.au/content/hero_news/jul y08/racing_too_boring_morris/

[HRT 1-2]

........... the main tower is now yello with Solo signage replacing WPS, (they got out of the sport quick) and all you can get is Pepsi/Solo at the track......

I don't think WPS got out quick, weren't they removed from all sponsorship because they owed money, which included the safety car?

That's because this session the 3rd of the Endurance Co-Driver sessions (there was one at Eastern Creek & Sandown beforehand), awesome performance once again by Steve Owen, to be the best of the endurance co-drivers. I've highlighted the actual co-drivers in Bold, as some teams chose to leave their regular drivers in their regular cars.

I'm aware of the extra session for the co-drivers hence the comment "why were the regular drivers in the cars" because I thought it was for rusty co-drivers only. So they chose to get a bit of testing in instead!!;)

[brchi17]

...I'm aware of the extra session for the co-drivers hence the comment "why were the regular drivers in the cars" because I thought it was for rusty co-drivers only. So they chose to get a bit of testing in instead!!;)

ok, np :) I know on both occasions so far that some of the regulars did do the session as an additional one. I suppose the only saving grace (for those team allowing their co-drivers in the cars) is that it was the very first v8 session, so the track would of been rather green & possibly a bit hard to get useful data from, but I do see/understand your point.

At Eastern Creek the following driver drove in the co-driver sessions
Autobarn Racing Team - Paul Dumbrell
Team WOW - Cameron McConville
Jim Beam Racing - Warren Luff
Jim Beam Racing - Steve Owen
SP Tools Racing - Shane Van Gisbergen
Jack Daniel's Racing - Shane Price
Supercheap Auto Racing - Paul Morris
Rod Nash Racing - Tony D'Alberto
Glenfords Racing - Jason Bargwanna
Jack Daniel's Racing - Jack Perkins
Toll Holden Racing Team - Glenn Seton
Ford Performance Racing - Dean Canto
Team BOC - Andrew Jones
Toll Holden Racing Team - Craig Baird
PWR Performance Products - Paul Weel
Ford Performance Racing - Luke Youlden
Valvoline Cummins Race Team - Greg Ritter
Valvoline Cummins Race Team - Michael Caruso
Sprint Gas Racing - Mark Noske
Sprint Gas Racing - Dale Wood
Team Kiwi Racing - Chris Pither
IRWIN Racing - Marcus Marshall
Jeld-Wen Motorsport - Jonathon Webb
HSV Dealer Team - Marcus Zukanovic
Fujitsu Racing - Jason Bright
Supercheap Auto Racing - James Small

At Sandown the following driver drove in the co-driver sessions
Jim Beam Racing - Steve Owen
HSV Dealer Team - Paul Radisich
Sprint Gas Racing - Jason Richards
Rod Nash Racing - Jason Bargwanna
SP Tools Racing - Shane Van Gisbergen
Glenfords Racing - John McIntyre
Jim Beam Racing - Warren Luff
Ford Performance Racing - Dean Canto
Toll Holden Racing Team - Craig Baird
Supercheap Auto Racing - Russell Ingall
Toll Holden Racing Team - Glenn Seton
Jeld-Wen Motorsport - David Besnard
Valvoline Cummins Race Team - Greg Ritter
Supercheap Auto Racing - Paul Morris
Sprint Gas Racing - Dale Wood
PWR Performance Products - A.Thompson/P.Weel
Jack Daniel's Racing - Nathan Pretty
Team BOC - Andrew Jones
Valvoline Cummins Race Team - Michael Caruso
Team WOW - Brad Jones
Jack Daniel's Racing - Jack Perkins
Autobarn Racing Team - Paul Dumbrell
Ford Performance Racing - Luke Youlden
IRWIN Racing - Marcus Marshall
Ausdrill Ford Rising Stars - Grant Denyer
Team Kiwi Racing - Kayne Scott
Fujitsu Racing - Jason Bright

As for who can run in the session, my understanding was that it was any of the two co-drivers were allowed to participate, but granted it would be more of an advantage (thinking to the endurance races) to have the non-full time drives in there instead of the regular driver/s. Perhaps some teams felt that using the session for the round was more important ???

[HRT 1-2]

Thanks Brad, I suppose it makes sense for teams like Supercheap as neither of their drivers are here being dropkick Neal and Boris!! James Small was an interesting one at the creek, I didn't realise he got a drive!!

[brchi17]

morris v8 supercars "boring" http://www.v8supercar.com.au/content/hero_news/jul y08/racing_too_boring_morris/

Some interesting comments made there, but 'the dud' but it could also be viewed as sour grapes because he got a slap on the wrist, perhaps they should of used an anvil, then it would of got it :rolleyes:

As for Nascar drivers not crying “You watch a NASCAR race and you don’t see these guys crying up and down pit lane.” obviously he didn't see the way Boris Said carried on when it was helped out during the race in New Mexico earlier in the year.

I vote Paul Morris for Tool of the Week

[malscar]

I vote Paul Morris for Tool of the Week

Well he has taken over the mantle from Romano.

[Kashmir]

“You watch a NASCAR race and you don’t see these guys crying up and down pit lane.”

he obviously has never heard of Kyle Busch:rolleyes:

[brchi17]

Thanks Brad, I suppose it makes sense for teams like Supercheap as neither of their drivers are here being dropkick Neal and Boris!! James Small was an interesting one at the creek, I didn't realise he got a drive!!

Trev, they've just said on the telecast that the top 15 in the championship are not allowed in the co-driver sessions, which explains where some of the other cars/drivers were ;)

[Kashmir]

ch7 can show the saturday race live rather than the FF and Carrera cup and get the coverage finished earlier,but they are obviously not that smart:rolleyes::mad:

[tigerpete]

Some interesting comments made there, but 'the dud' but it could also be viewed as sour grapes because he got a slap on the wrist, perhaps they should of used an anvil, then it would of got it :rolleyes:

As for Nascar drivers not crying “You watch a NASCAR race and you don’t see these guys crying up and down pit lane.” obviously he didn't see the way Boris Said carried on when it was helped out during the race in New Mexico earlier in the year.

I vote Paul Morris for Tool of the Week
up grade that to tool of the 1/2 decade and you got my vote

[minh427]

Paul Morris is a rich boy who pretends to be a race car driver.

[gab73]

Obviously dishing out penalties to Morris don't work as he was at it again today. Might be time to suspend him.

[barnart]

No Skaife bashing I see, Morris instead. Yes he is the TOOL of the weekend. How good is Ingall No1 Holden today, love it. Good old uncle Tom won't be happy.

[moffatxc]

Maybe hrt/hsv should hire Ingall and get rid of dumbrell?

[spiderken17]

Can Morris get by anyone cleanly?!! The guy just bashes his way past Toddler, then spins Stevie Johnson, give me a break. What a freakin' TOOLUS EXTREMIS!!! He got a special mention from the stewards before the Hidden Valley round and continued to drive like the bloody Dukes of Hazard, then he has a cry and goes back to doing again this round.
PMM obviously build fast cars as proved by Ingall, Morris just cant drive to save himself. I didn't think it was possible but i reckon he's got worse this season, he'll have a bullbar on his car next race. Time to kick him to the curb.

Sorry about the rant but I'm getting mighty sick of this so called "proffessional" ruining other drivers weekends and only getting a slap on the wrist for it.

[gab73]

Maybe hrt/hsv should hire Ingall and get rid of dumbrell?
Totally agree. So much for been past it???

[wayno]

I would just like to give some kudos to Ingall for his driving this season. Quick, clean and a pleasant surprise.
I was ready to right him off and am quite happy to admit my mistake. :)

[Maq]

I can not remember Morris having a race and not turn someone around. Just because someone can afford a licence, dosn't meen that he should be driving. There are plenty of young guys that are missing out because there are no spots. It's a real shame. If I was getting my but kicked for the last 10 or however many years, I would feel embaresed and ashamed (nicest way I can put it on a forum) but he is to egotistical and pig headed. I say P.O and go race Aussie racers and give someone talented a go

[SWRT]

Morris has been a tool in 2 other non-V8 events I've seen this year.
Firstly he almost took himself and the 2 leading Evo's out of the Bathurst 12hr on turn 2 (Griffins Bend) & at Eastern Creek for the Aussie Racers Series on Saturday he biffs of Richie Raper for taking the lead at Turn 2 on the last lap and gets away with it.
Morris deserves his racing license to be taken off him for reckless driving, the 'John Daly' of Motorsport.
Steve Owen deserves his seat if Ingall is doing such a good job (WHY Ingall have you started to race well in Holdens, why didn't you do this in 06/07 in a SBR Ford?).

[wayno]

I would dearly love to see Steve Owen in a good Holden seat. The guy is a massively untapped talent in my opinion.

[brchi17]

No Skaife bashing I see, Morris instead. Yes he is the TOOL of the weekend. How good is Ingall No1 Holden today, love it. Good old uncle Tom won't be happy.

Interesting to note that he had 2 green boxes during the dieing moments of final qualifying before he chucked it off the road on the final corner, I suggest that would of put a big nail in those knockers & for once I felt a little sad for him, as one again he's shown he's still got it!

I would just like to give some kudos to Ingall for his driving this season. Quick, clean and a pleasant surprise.
I was ready to right him off and am quite happy to admit my mistake. :)

I agree Wayno, I don't know who or what this new enforcer is, but changing brands has certainly paid off for Russ, it will be interesting to see how he fairs if he can get a solid start to race 2....

I would dearly love to see Steve Owen in a good Holden seat. The guy is a massively untapped talent in my opinion.

Did you see the times from his practice on Friday ??? Only beaten by one driver in a full time driver.....if only he had a rich daddy or a big personal sponsor (hint, hint Biante ;)) I am seriously hoping DJR do split Will & Jr as I think Davo & Steve O will be a very strong race winning combination come the endurance races, if DJR go down that way. He's certainly too good to be chucked in to the back up car with Luffy.

[Chev_350]

I would dearly love to see Steve Owen in a good Holden seat. The guy is a massively untapped talent in my opinion.

Ford don't have the $$$$ to enter into a bidding war for drivers. So hopefully the General will land him, Garry should have put him in one of his cars Holdsworth and Owen could have been a good combo.

[hobby]

did anyone else take notice of the slow motion replay of Rick Kelly's car going over the side of the ripple strip?
awesome display of tyre distortion and sparks when the car bellied
over all it was a good race and a pleasure to try and watch as i got up and ready for another night shift.

[fordmad17]

Ok so they ditched Cromleys cad for the slow mo. Wonder if they borrowed it from Richie and the team at 9. Does look good though. Hows the rear tyres over the ripple strips...

[Holdennumber1]

(WHY Ingall have you started to race well in Holdens, why didn't you do this in 06/07 in a SBR Ford?). Easy, because he was driving a ford:D. Also, I think that Dumbrell is a hopeless driver and Todd should join his brother and parents in the HSVDT.

[SWRT]

Why I'm critising Ingall for only now showing form when he had no form in 06/07, is because after beating Marcos in 05 (ableat with a lot of luck), he proved it was a fluke in 06/07.

[Holdennumber1]

Why I'm critising Ingall for only now showing form when he had no form in 06/07, is because after beating Marcos in 05 (ableat with a lot of luck), he proved it was a fluke in 06/07. Last year, he ran into a bit of form at the Gold Coast which stayed for a while. Ingall still hasn't had that extra bit of pace that you need to win a race yet this year though, but he's getting close. Also, Skaife isn't going bad, FOR ONCE.

[singer]

Ford don't have the $$$$ to enter into a bidding war for drivers. So hopefully the General will land him, Garry should have put him in one of his cars Holdsworth and Owen could have been a good combo.
Wouldn't be so sure GM are having their own problems too:(

I'd wait before making that type of judgement

[HRT 1-2]

Trev, they've just said on the telecast that the top 15 in the championship are not allowed in the co-driver sessions, which explains where some of the other cars/drivers were ;)

Yeah, I did hear that, makes sense!! Wonder who was driving Ingall's car because he shouldn't have been driving??

[HRT 1-2]

I would just like to give some kudos to Ingall for his driving this season. Quick, clean and a pleasant surprise.
I was ready to right him off and am quite happy to admit my mistake. :)

Have too agree there, I think there is quite a bit in the background too, getting some decent people working on the cars!!;)

[wayno]

Owen should have had the second Kelly team seat. His last two Bathurst's have been superb and Paul Dumbell is a clown.
Yet another driver oversight from the complete retards in charge of driver contracts at the general.

[HRT 1-2]

Had too laugh, not that the incident was funny, with Jnr whinging about Todd tapping him on every corner and then "the dud" comes through and shows us why he should be standing and watching from the kerb!!

[VE II]

Good to see Ingalls having a great weekend. 3rd and a 2nd. All the best to him in race 3.

[minh427]

Good to see Ingalls having a great weekend. 3rd and a 2nd. All the best to him in race 3.

How you know he got 2nd? It just started on CH7.

[VE II]

oh sorry guys. i was following it on the v8 website with the crappy drivers times and stuff like that as i was doing uni work. i wont post any of the other results.

[spiderken17]

I am seriously hoping DJR do split Will & Jr as I think Davo & Steve O will be a very strong race winning combination come the endurance races, if DJR go down that way. He's certainly too good to be chucked in to the back up car with Luffy.

DJR will keep their 2 top drivers together. keep in mind that even though Stevie might not be going well in the sprint races, come enduro time he'll come into his own. He knows Bathurst like the back of his hand and put it 4th on the grid in the shootout and 3rd (nearly 1st) in the race. Bring on the rain and he'll carve it up.

[wayno]

I am now firmly convinced the VE is a piece of crap. It was lucky to win the title last year and has proven repeatedly this year that it can't sustain the pace.
Ingall drove his heart out today, but ultimately came up short.

[model_mad]

will admit ve is ****, and so was the AU, ford needed a new car to fix this, so i think you guys need a new car too.

[Kashmir]

I am now firmly convinced the VE is a piece of crap. It was lucky to win the title last year and has proven repeatedly this year that it can't sustain the pace.
Ingall drove his heart out today, but ultimately came up short.

it wasn't lucky, it was dominant last year.

[Rob]

It just ebbs and flows. One year your dominant and the next your not.
Just look @ F1. Williams were winning championships left, right and centre
and now haven't won a race since about 2003!!!

The harder you work, the luckier you get and you reap the rewards.

It hasn't helped that Holden basically pulled apart the successful elements
of HSVDT to prop up HRT. You would have to say that HRT aren't that more
competitive then what they were last season.

[Kashmir]

I agree it's just the nature of motorsport,one year you're on top the next your not.

[barnart]

The fact is that Morris dosen't want to race anymore, but Morris senior likes to watch his son race thats the only reason Paul keeps driving. This has come from a very close Morris family freind. Ingall well done, but go "FORDS"

[fordmad17]

The fact is that Morris dosen't want to race anymore, but Morris senior likes to watch his son race thats the only reason Paul keeps driving. This has come from a very close Morris family freind. Ingall well done, but go "FORDS"

Theres an opening for Steve Owen. If Ingall is going so well imagine steve in the second car

[fordmad17]

Bugger I picked 1st and 3rd in Barnart's comp. So close.......

[barnart]

Bugger I picked 1st and 3rd in Barnart's comp. So close.......


looks like I can't give that Toll workshop away, will have another comp next round.

[brchi17]

The fact is that Morris dosen't want to race anymore, but Morris senior likes to watch his son race thats the only reason Paul keeps driving. This has come from a very close Morris family freind. Ingall well done, but go "FORDS"

That sounds tragic, as I'd rather watch my team have success with a better driver than, watch Paul punt around in the mid to rear field.....that said it is HIS money :(

That said, I must say that 'the dud' did driver rather well in race 2(or was it 3 - I can't remember, yawn) to go from 2nd last to 13th.....Imagine how they'd go with another driver like Russ.

[MP4/22]

How many rounds do Ford have to win before they fix the &*%$ing Holdens!

Very unfair when Ford only fund 2 teams now!!! And HOLDEN have to carry the championship.....

[brchi17]

How many rounds do Ford have to win before they fix the &*%$ing Holdens!

Very unfair when Ford only fund 2 teams now!!! And HOLDEN have to carry the championship.....

I don't think there will be any change, it's kind of like the early 00's when the red team got it 100% right & dominated, yes that was painful for the blue supporters who were really blue!

If you look at the lap times both marks are very, very close, there was something like 1/1000th difference between Ingall & Frosty, so I can't see them being able to do something which would bridge such a small gap.

[MP4/22]

I don't think there will be any change, it's kind of like the early 00's when the red team got it 100% right & dominated, yes that was painful for the blue supporters who were really blue!

If you look at the lap times both marks are very, very close, there was something like 1/1000th difference between Ingall & Frosty, so I can't see them being able to do something which would bridge such a small gap.

I don't think that the problem is very big but the championship is so close now 1/1000th every lap is a BIG advantage. Holden have the right to win half the races it is vital that the championship is equal.

[Chev_350]

Something I spotted around the track yesterday.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3694/toyotazl5. jpg

[GOBBO]

congrats to frosty well done mate .

[gab73]

I don't think that the problem is very big but the championship is so close now 1/1000th every lap is a BIG advantage. Holden have the right to win half the races it is vital that the championship is equal.
Have the right???? Keep dreaming.

[Holdennumber1]

Does anyone know what position skaife came in race two, three and the round. My dads tape recorder stuffed up while I was playing a football match, so I missed the whole 2nd and 3rd races.:(

[malscar]

Does anyone know what position skaife came in race two, three and the round. My dads tape recorder stuffed up while I was playing a football match, so I missed the whole 2nd and 3rd races.:(


If your ever looking for race results for Australia. this site is tops.

http://www.natsoft.com.au/results/

[Holdennumber1]

If your ever looking for race results for Australia. this site is tops.

http://www.natsoft.com.au/results/ Thanks heaps malscar.:) Skaife came 7th overall this round, so I guess there won't be any Skaife Bashing.
Cheers,
Holdennumber1

[brchi17]

Have the right???? Keep dreaming.

he actually has a point there, as the whole ideology behind this parity formula is so that both manufacturers win as close to 50% of the races/round wins as possible ;)

[GOBBO]

he actually has a point there, as the whole ideology behind this parity formula is so that both manufacturers win as close to 50% of the races/round wins as possible ;)

so isnt it up to holden to catch up and not penalise ford for doing well .
if i remmember in the early 2000s ford couldnt win a chook raffle but it was up to them to get it together holden didnt get brought back to the pack.......

[MP4/22]

so isnt it up to holden to catch up and not penalise ford for doing well .
if i remmember in the early 2000s ford couldnt win a chook raffle but it was up to them to get it together holden didnt get brought back to the pack.......

Yes but that was before Project Blueprint. Since 2003 there has not been a problem as Both Holden and Ford have had good results until now...........................

[GRPIII]

so isnt it up to holden to catch up and not penalise ford for doing well .
if i remmember in the early 2000s ford couldnt win a chook raffle but it was up to them to get it together holden didnt get brought back to the pack.......
so changing the front suspension on the commodore meant nothing?

[gab73]

he actually has a point there, as the whole ideology behind this parity formula is so that both manufacturers win as close to 50% of the races/round wins as possible ;)
Is it actual wins or the capability to win an equal amount???

[MP4/22]

Is it actual wins or the capability to win an equal amount???

At this time i don't believe Holden have the capability to win under normal circumstances.

[gab73]

Gee Ingall looked like he could have won if only he could get passed. Track position is everything.

[brchi17]

so isnt it up to holden to catch up and not penalise ford for doing well .
if i remmember in the early 2000s ford couldnt win a chook raffle but it was up to them to get it together holden didnt get brought back to the pack.......

While I agree with you and that I believe that it should be the job of the slower to catch it, it's not the common practice as it would be easier to slightly noble the fastest ones back to the back than speed up the stragglers.

Is it actual wins or the capability to win an equal amount???

I can't remember the exact, specific wording of it (it was mentioned in the introduction of the project blueprint), but remember the V8 series is more entertainment then pure motorsport, so it could be either and both.

Remember the whole theory behind the introduction of project blueprint and common/shared parts, etc was so that everyone had an even chance of winning.

[MP4/22]

Gee Ingall looked like he could have won if only he could get passed. Track position is everything.

Ture but it was his test track and Lowndes, Whincup, Skaife,R Kelly,T Kelly, S Richards and Holdsworth all had bad weekends. Leads to Ingall having little problem in getting up the top

[gab73]

Remember the whole theory behind the introduction of project blueprint and common/shared parts, etc was so that everyone had an even chance of winning.
Thats what i mean, does Holden have an even chance of winning regardless if they actually are.

[gab73]

Ture but it was his test track and Lowndes, Whincup, Skaife,R Kelly,T Kelly, S Richards and Holdsworth all had bad weekends. Leads to Ingall having little problem in getting up the top
There you go you answered it your self, both Holden and Ford drivers had bad weekends, totally different from not been capable to win.

[MP4/22]

There you go you answered it your self, both Holden and Ford drivers had bad weekends, totally different from not been capable to win.

Not realy the the Kellys and Co (WP Holdens) are often around the back of the top ten the big diffrence is the the top FORDS that are in the top Five were out this weekend.

[Holdennumber1]

Maybe holden aren't winning any races because of their drivers. The holdens and fords still might be even in speed, but the drivers might not be. It would be really interesting to see frosty drive a holden around a track and see if it's as fast as his ford.

[MP4/22]

Maybe holden aren't winning any races because of their drivers. The holdens and fords still might be even in speed, but the drivers might not be. It would be really interesting to see frosty drive a holden around a track and see if it's as fast as his ford.

good point but as Tander has been the best Driver for the last two years why is he of the pace ??? i.e sandown.

[gab73]

good point but as Tander has been the best Driver for the last two years why is he of the pace ??? i.e sandown.
Because he is driving for a different team now.

[fordmad17]

If its wet at winton u can kiss a holden win goodbye unless Holdsworth has a good run

[Holdennumber1]

Because he is driving for a different team now. Or he has passed his use-by-date already(I seriously hope not).

[MP4/22]

Because he is driving for a different team now.

As far as i know the HRT and HSVDT are sister teams that are about as close as you can get (think 2006 sandown/Bathurst) any notion that changing teams has affected Tander are questionable.....

[Maq]

Skaife did an engine change early in the weekend. why was there no back of grid start? had his engine done enough rounds or what? Richards got past him clearly then was turned around why no penalty?

[Holdennumber1]

If its wet at winton u can kiss a holden win goodbye unless Holdsworth has a good run You can't say that already. Anything can happen in the sport of V8 Supercars so you can't write off Holden quite yet. Maybe Holden have been working on their wet weather races, or maybe all the fords will crash in race one, who knows.

[Holdennumber1]

Skaife did an engine change early in the weekend. why was there no back of grid start? had his engine done enough rounds or what? Richards got past him clearly then was turned around why no penalty? Because Skaife was trying to pass Courtney before Richards tried to put a move on Skaife. Skaife was probably focusing on Courtney and just took racing line and hit Richards.

[spiderken17]

Just because the Fords are winning at the moment doesn't mean the Holdens aren't capable of it. Some times the results just come down to human error. Look at qualifying, Skaife was on a flyer, had two green sectors until he locked a brake and went off. If that didn't happen then Skaife would have been on pole.

Ingall and Tanders lap times were the equal of the top Fords this weekend and Tander demolished everyone in Hamilton so i don't know how people can say the Holdens are slower, they're just not putting complete race weekends together each round like alot of the Ford teams (with the exception of Tander and R Kelly).

I bet if you asked any of the drivers if the Holdens are slower than the Fords they will tell you thats rubbish. Put someone like Holdsworth or Toddler in a Falcon and reckon they are going to suddenly start winning races because they're in a Ford? Not likely.

[brchi17]

Skaife did an engine change early in the weekend. why was there no back of grid start? had his engine done enough rounds or what? Richards got past him clearly then was turned around why no penalty?

On the engine change, from memory they're allowed 1 engine change during a round of the series before that penalty is applied, so it must of been his 1st for the year.

As for the Richards one, it will be interesting to read the officials take on this one but I suspect from what I saw on the telly that they will call it a racing incident as it didn't appear that Skaife blatantly punted Richo off. I must admit when I first saw it I wonder if there had been any contact at all as neither car had obvious signs of contact - mind you a later replay showed that the slightest of contact had occurred.

[gab73]

As far as i know the HRT and HSVDT are sister teams that are about as close as you can get (think 2006 sandown/Bathurst) any notion that changing teams has affected Tander are questionable.....
Sister teams in name only. Look at all the personal that have changed in those two teams over the Christmas break.

[spiderken17]

good point but as Tander has been the best Driver for the last two years why is he of the pace ??? i.e sandown.

Sandown was the only round, he's been at the pointy end every other round. He said he couldn't get a good setup on his car in the wet there, thats why he was off the pace. As for changing teams, he took his engineer with him and they both (HRT & HSVDT) run TWR gear, the only thing different this year is the colours on his car.
And remember he is still coming second in the championship, one bad round from Frosty and he'll take the lead again. I dont know how you can say he's off the pace, he's one of the most consistant drivers in the championship.

Just because all the cars are equal doesn't mean all the drivers are. Alan Gurr and Craig Lowndes being a nice example.

[Leigh]

Is it actual wins or the capability to win an equal amount???

IIRC, it's the the average of the fastest 10 laps of the fastest ten Holdens and fastest 10 Fords must be within 0.01 seconds or something like that...

[Leigh]

As far as i know the HRT and HSVDT are sister teams that are about as close as you can get (think 2006 sandown/Bathurst) any notion that changing teams has affected Tander are questionable.....

Chalk and cheese...the only thing common is the panels and engine...everything else is completely different and data is not interchangable...

[brchi17]

Maybe holden aren't winning any races because of their drivers. The holdens and fords still might be even in speed, but the drivers might not be. It would be really interesting to see frosty drive a holden around a track and see if it's as fast as his ford.

As has been said before, the biggest problem with most of the Holden teams this season is that most of them have had one or more major changes since the end of the 2007 season.

HRT & HSVDT - new drivers, engineers, mechanics & managers
GRM - new driver & new engines
BJR - changed to Holden from Ford
Tasman - management restructure
Perkins - new driver
PWR - were leaving & then re-entered the series at the 11th hour, so have had to rebuild their team from almost scratch.
PMM - new driver, mechanics, engineersWhen you compare this to the Ford teams who have have seldom a change from the end of season 07 and the picture of why they are all passing the Holden's is a lot clearer.

[GOBBO]

Skaife did an engine change early in the weekend. why was there no back of grid start? had his engine done enough rounds or what? Richards got past him clearly then was turned around why no penalty?

easy because it was hrt

[spiderken17]

As has been said before, the biggest problem with most of the Holden teams this season is that most of them have had one or more major changes since the end of the 2007 season.

HRT & HSVDT - new drivers, engineers, mechanics & managers
GRM - new driver & new engines
BJR - changed to Holden from Ford
Tasman - management restructure
Perkins - new driver
PWR - were leaving & then re-entered the series at the 11th hour, so have had to rebuild their team from almost scratch.
PMM - new driver, mechanics, engineersWhen you compare this to the Ford teams who have have seldom a change from the end of season 07 and the picture of why they are all passing the Holden's is a lot clearer.

Excellent point. Continuity is the key.

[Holdennumber1]

As has been said before, the biggest problem with most of the Holden teams this season is that most of them have had one or more major changes since the end of the 2007 season.

HRT & HSVDT - new drivers, engineers, mechanics & managers
GRM - new driver & new engines
BJR - changed to Holden from Ford
Tasman - management restructure
Perkins - new driver
PWR - were leaving & then re-entered the series at the 11th hour, so have had to rebuild their team from almost scratch.
PMM - new driver, mechanics, engineersWhen you compare this to the Ford teams who have have seldom a change from the end of season 07 and the picture of why they are all passing the Holden's is a lot clearer. Good point there, but how about Rick Kelly. He is in the same team as last year and is way off the pace. Sure, a few of his HSVDT crew left, but that shouldn't make that much of a difference as they still have all of last years setups etc. Maybe every driver has just got a bit better except for him.

[spiderken17]

Good point there, but how about Rick Kelly. He is in the same team as last year and is way off the pace. Sure, a few of his HSVDT crew left, but that shouldn't make that much of a difference as they still have all of last years setups etc. Maybe every driver has just got a bit better except for him.

He's coming 4th in the points so he's not doing badly. remember he didn't win his championship by winning heaps of races but by consistantly finishing up the top.

[Holdennumber1]

He's coming 4th in the points so he's not doing badly. remember he didn't win his championship by winning heaps of races but by consistantly finishing up the top. Sure 4th is a good position on the championship but his former pace is just not here this year. In his championship year, he consistently qualified in the top two and won a fair amount of races, which he has not done this year. He needs to pick up the pace if he wants to win another championship.

[brchi17]

Good point there, but how about Rick Kelly. He is in the same team as last year and is way off the pace. Sure, a few of his HSVDT crew left, but that shouldn't make that much of a difference as they still have all of last years setups etc. Maybe every driver has just got a bit better except for him.

As for Rick, I think he's experiencing the effects of different, mechanics, engineers, team leaders who are getting up to speed with the way in which the HSVDT cars are built, setup & run.

Don't forget a lot of the HSVDT crew were sent to HRT with Tander & so there has been a lot of critical staff who have had to learn a whole lot of new systems & this all this takes time. Let's also not forget that this year there are only 4 test days compared to 6 and so it means even less time in private to learn about how the cars respond to changes.

Finally don't forget that there are substantial differences between the HRT & HSVDT cars. Comparing are chalk & cheese would be an accurate comparison.

[rusky26]

As for Rick, I think he's experiencing the effects of different, mechanics, engineers, team leaders who are getting up to speed with the way in which the HSVDT cars are built, setup & run.

Don't forget a lot of the HSVDT crew were sent to HRT with Tander & so there has been a lot of critical staff who have had to learn a whole lot of new systems & this all this takes time. Let's also not forget that this year there are only 4 test days compared to 6 and so it means even less time in private to learn about how the cars respond to changes.

Finally don't forget that there are substantial differences between the HRT & HSVDT cars. Comparing are chalk & cheese would be an accurate comparison.

And don't forget he has a new team mate.....I doubt that Dumbrell would be as good as Tander in sorting out the cars

[brchi17]

And don't forget he has a new team mate.....I doubt that Dumbrell would be as good as Tander in sorting out the cars

thanks, I forgot to mention that one & what a big point that is ;)

[james]

Good point there, but how about Rick Kelly. He is in the same team as last year and is way off the pace. Sure, a few of his HSVDT crew left, but that shouldn't make that much of a difference as they still have all of last years setups etc. Maybe every driver has just got a bit better except for him.
Do you know what you are talking about???????????????????????????????????Personally i doubt it.

[beast]

As for Rick, I think he's experiencing the effects of different, mechanics, engineers, team leaders who are getting up to speed with the way in which the HSVDT cars are built, setup & run.

Don't forget a lot of the HSVDT crew were sent to HRT with Tander & so there has been a lot of critical staff who have had to learn a whole lot of new systems & this all this takes time. Let's also not forget that this year there are only 4 test days compared to 6 and so it means even less time in private to learn about how the cars respond to changes.

Finally don't forget that there are substantial differences between the HRT & HSVDT cars. Comparing are chalk & cheese would be an accurate comparison.

And it is also Rick's first year as being the clear number 1 driver in the team as well.

Rick had a very bad weekend all because of Richo's spin in race 2. Rick still has the speed to win races, he just thinks of the bigger picture "the championship", why risk the equipment to win races when u can continuly gain points and win a championship. I think he is the smartest driver in the field at present.

[carnut01]

Good point there, but how about Rick Kelly. He is in the same team as last year and is way off the pace. Sure, a few of his HSVDT crew left, but that shouldn't make that much of a difference as they still have all of last years setups etc. Maybe every driver has just got a bit better except for him.
last year's setups are now all irrelevant. HSVDT now are using the newer spec WP cars, and now the change of the tyre compound. also, track conditions change from year to year, so an 07 setup may be in the ball park to start off with as a base setup, it wont cut it as a race winning setup.

also, personally i believe Rick relied more on Tander's experiance to help fine tune the car - something that he cant get from Dumbrell.

in a game where a tenth or 2 is the difference between first and 10th position, i slight setup error can cost deerly.

also, with most of the holden teams running chassis and engines that come out of the same shop (WP), 1 minor engeneering or design flaw / oversight affects multipul teams - which can easily swing the balance of power between Holden and Ford.

Same thing happened with Ford when the BA was launched back in 03, only a couple of teams (SBR, FPR from memory) went about and built their own cars from scratch, while the rest used the "Beehag" chassis and built them upto their own specs. SBR were constantly winning races while many of the others strugled. Nothing was wrong with the car, just some were able to make them work better then others

[barnart]

And it is also Rick's first year as being the clear number 1 driver in the team as well.

Rick had a very bad weekend all because of Richo's spin in race 2. Rick still has the speed to win races, he just thinks of the bigger picture "the championship", why risk the equipment to win races when u can continuly gain points and win a championship. I think he is the smartest driver in the field at present.

You mean Richo's spin, which was caused by Skaife, which then caused Rick to have a bad weekend.

[commanderwhite]

I totally agree with Owen should have been in the 2nd HSV car before Dumbell but money not talent talks in this sport & Dumbell's parents own Autobarn so they flash their cash & the one of the worst drivers I have ever seen in 36 years of watching motorsport has a prime seat.

Owen is twice the driver of Dumbell & when someone wakes up to that fact they will sign him up & they will get a genuine racer - look at his results over the past 2 seasons in a VX chassis/VZ body Commodore especially Bathurst last year.

Peter Brock once said to me that "Steve Owen is one of this country's best up & coming drivers" - that was at the mountain in 2005.

As for the lousy showing of the Red Lion brigade lately - I suggest they get their heads out of their backsides & work harder & stop bleating about the lack of this & that. The VE is a top racecar & if prepared right & driven hard then it will win races until then - get over it.

I have been & always will be a Holden man - the dark side are doing all the right things correct & deserve to win the rounds - AT THE MOMENT.

[barnart]

I totally agree with Owen should have been in the 2nd HSV car before Dumbell but money not talent talks in this sport & Dumbell's parents own Autobarn so they flash their cash & the one of the worst drivers I have ever seen in 36 years of watching motorsport has a prime seat.

Owen is twice the driver of Dumbell & when someone wakes up to that fact they will sign him up & they will get a genuine racer - look at his results over the past 2 seasons in a VX chassis/VZ body Commodore especially Bathurst last year.

Peter Brock once said to me that "Steve Owen is one of this country's best up & coming drivers" - that was at the mountain in 2005.

As for the lousy showing of the Red Lion brigade lately - I suggest they get their heads out of their backsides & work harder & stop bleating about the lack of this & that. The VE is a top racecar & if prepared right & driven hard then it will win races until then - get over it.

I have been & always will be a Holden man - the dark side are doing all the right things correct & deserve to win the rounds - AT THE MOMENT.

Gary Dumbrell owns part of the Autobarn name and owns all of Wynns Australia

[Holdennumber1]

Why Steve Owen? Couldn't they put someone like D'alberto, who is a great driver, but not in a good team, or Holdsworth, who could win a championship in a top team. Even someone like Fabian Coulthard could do a lot better than Dumbrell in the HSVDT. But I think the best option is to bring back Todd Kelly as he is one good driver.

[brchi17]

Todd's had his chance, just look at his results....enough said!

[gab73]

If they want instant success, Ingall's the man.

[Holdennumber1]

If they want instant success, Ingall's the man. Pringall. If you put him in a good team, he will probably just repeat what he did with SBR and run around in 9th place. They will get instant success with Holdsworth as he is quick right now aswell.

[gab73]

Pringall. If you put him in a good team, he will probably just repeat what he did with SBR and run around in 9th place. They will get instant success with Holdsworth as he is quick right now aswell.

Ok.

[brchi17]

....They will get instant success with Holdsworth as he is quick right now aswell.

yep with a 10th, 18th & 10th place on the weekend he's certainly the man !!!

[MP4/22]

So whats the bet for a bathurst Ford whitewash?

[Chev_350]

hasn't it been like that the past 2 years anyway? :(

[Oh Five]

Pringall. If you put him in a good team, he will probably just repeat what he did with SBR and run around in 9th place. .

I'm sure he won a championship in that team once, and helped his mate get one also:rolleyes:

[HRT 1-2]

DJR will keep their 2 top drivers together. keep in mind that even though Stevie might not be going well in the sprint races, come enduro time he'll come into his own. He knows Bathurst like the back of his hand and put it 4th on the grid in the shootout and 3rd (nearly 1st) in the race. Bring on the rain and he'll carve it up.

Which part of his hand did he use for this?;) Just jokes!!:)

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/trerat/100 _1948.jpg

[HRT 1-2]

so isnt it up to holden to catch up and not penalise ford for doing well .
if i remmember in the early 2000s ford couldnt win a chook raffle but it was up to them to get it together holden didnt get brought back to the pack.......

No it was not up to Ford to "get it together", Holden were nobbled in the same way the Falcon had been previously!! It is the way it has always been done. I'm not saying I agree with it, just pointing out my memory of it!!;)

It was also obvious with the introduction of the VE that it was inferior to the BA, otherwise they wouldn't have ceased use of the BA immediately pushing everyone over to the BF. I'm thinking this balance may still be a little off!!

IMO moving forward, as has been argued widely, push the cars back more to mechanical grip rather than aero. A good starting point would be to cut the guts out of the front meaning they will be then be forced to reduce the rear downforce to rebalance the car.

[Leigh]

No it was not up to Ford to "get it together", Holden were nobbled in the same way the Falcon had been previously!! It is the way it has always been done. I'm not saying I agree with it, just pointing out my memory of it!!;)

It was also obvious with the introduction of the VE that it was inferior to the BA, otherwise they wouldn't have ceased use of the BA immediately pushing everyone over to the BF. I'm thinking this balance may still be a little off!!

IMO moving forward, as has been argued widely, push the cars back more to mechanical grip rather than aero. A good starting point would be to cut the guts out of the front meaning they will be then be forced to reduce the rear downforce to rebalance the car.

But mechanical grip is what keeps them from sliding through slow corners...the aero holds the car to the ground through fast sections of track like the top of Mount P and turning into the Chase...

My thinking is to reduce mechanical grip, as it's low speed corners where most action takes place in most race categories...

[HRT 1-2]

Sure 4th is a good position on the championship but his former pace is just not here this year. In his championship year, he consistently qualified in the top two and won a fair amount of races, which he has not done this year. He needs to pick up the pace if he wants to win another championship.

Mate, you really need to check your facts before making these bold statements, he rarely qualified better than 3rd or 4th and won 1 race at Indy,for the whole year!!

[HRT 1-2]

But mechanical grip is what keeps them from sliding through slow corners...the aero holds the car to the ground through fast sections of track like the top of Mount P and turning into the Chase...

My thinking is to reduce mechanical grip, as it's low speed corners where most action takes place in most race categories...

Yeah I can see your point but, the problem with aero is the loss of it's effect when attempting to pass making it self defeating! Unless your name is Lowndes or Whincup and just use the ol' push to pass!! Whincup used it well on the weekend!!;)

[Leigh]

The reason they "steal aero" is because they are trying to pass where the aero is most effective because the mechanical grip in corners prevents them from passing there...

Take Bathurst as an example...once upon a time, the entry and exit of Forrest's Elbow was a critical part of the track, get that wrong and you'd be passed halfway down Conrod...passes are never made halfway down conrod now because the mechanical grip at Forrests means you have to be a dimwit to get that wrong...so it then becomes a braking duel into the Chase, where aero plays a big part...

Have a look at all the current moves, and it tends to be a dive under brakes where the grip changes from aero to mechanical, but a little help is given to break the mechanical (by way of bump, or placement of vehicle to get the racing line etc)...in the ol' days, the passes were made at these points AND where mechanical grip was needed...

I agree the aero could be reduced a bit, but not removed completely...

Look at it from another perspective. At the start of a race, have a look at either old race clips or the Biante series at how much wheelspin is present, or where no wheelspin, how slow they take off, compared to a V8 Supercar...there can be no aero grip if the car is sitting still (unless there is a 100km/h head wind LOL).

PS Just to balance the equation, I'll remind thee that Skaife patented the "push to pass" manoeuvre back in 1999-2000, its just he can't get close enough to use it anymore:p

[Holdennumber1]

yep with a 10th, 18th & 10th place on the weekend he's certainly the man !!! Is said he was quick, not winning races or rounds as he isn't in the fastest of cars/teams right now. He did really well at clipsal and a few other rounds this year though.

[Holdennumber1]

Mate, you really need to check your facts before making these bold statements, he rarely qualified better than 3rd or 4th and won 1 race at Indy,for the whole year!! Sorry, I was thinking of just the HSVDT not Rick Kelly. I thought that Rick won more races, but it must of been Tander. My memory must have played up a bit when I wrote that.
Cheers,
Holdennumber1

[Chev_350]

Just going through my pics

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4682/winnerjw3. jpg

The top 2 from the weekend

[spiderken17]

Which part of his hand did he use for this?;) Just jokes!!:)

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/trerat/100 _1948.jpg

perhaps his hand was busy at that particular moment.:D

[Leigh]

Cold tyres...I've heard V8 drivers describe cold tyres as being like driving on a "wet" track...so I agree, he'll come into his own if it rains at Bathurst;)

[HRT 1-2]

Cold tyres...I've heard V8 drivers describe cold tyres as being like driving on a "wet" track...so I agree, he'll come into his own if it rains at Bathurst;)

What are you saying, his off was a result of cold tyres and if it rains expect a similar result?:p

[CowboyMatt]

Just got back from a week's holdiay but made sure I watched the racing.

Frosty is currently in a class of his own - looks unstoppable at the moment.

What is it with Whincup at the moment - he appears a bit rattled. Keeps making simple (if you can call what these guys do simple) mistakes.

I think those who rated James Courtney most overrrated driver will feel a little stupid right now. Seems to be at the front end of the field and on the podium a lot lately. Finally showing some maturity.

Richo and Skaife incident was interesting. I think Skaife was a bit annoyed he didn't get past Courtney and found himself passed instead. No penalty, hmmm - and if it was Paul Morris who tapped Richo....(not defending Morris, I agree with all the earlier commentary).

Crompton gets a new toy and as he did last year overplays it to death.

What is it with Lowndes' car at the moment - broken axle at Sandown, blown engine at Hidden Valley and whatever it was that stuffed him up in Race 1.

[brad]

Frosty/richo should be tought at bathurst :)

I think Whincup just had one of those weekends where the mistakes creep in..

Skaife/Richards - If it was reveresed i dont' think skaife would have held back, interesting that there was no penalty though - if it was frosty or say the Gis spinning a seasoned racer it'd be a different story..

Lowndes is having a shocker of late, sort of like the 2000 series with mechanical probs... maybe he'll leave at the end of the year to SBR or FPR? Just thinking because he is contracted to ford not 888 still? (not sure on that)

[Leigh]

What are you saying, his off was a result of cold tyres and if it rains expect a similar result?:p

Bingo!

[Leigh]

I think 888 have got to the peak of development and the cars are becoming "twitchy" and liable to breakages, just like the last of the VZ's at HRT...

I compare FPR with HSVDT, achieving a better and more consitant outcome through "stronger" components that aren't at the peak or edge of development...

By peak, or edge of development, I mean that you can only go so far down a certain path with each item before the development sends you backwards.

[Brasha]

Frosty/richo should be tought at bathurst :)

I think Whincup just had one of those weekends where the mistakes creep in..

Skaife/Richards - If it was reveresed i dont' think skaife would have held back, interesting that there was no penalty though - if it was frosty or say the Gis spinning a seasoned racer it'd be a different story..

Lowndes is having a shocker of late, sort of like the 2000 series with mechanical probs... maybe he'll leave at the end of the year to SBR or FPR? Just thinking because he is contracted to ford not 888 still? (not sure on that)

I think you will find CL driving a Team Vodafone "CAR" next year.

And possibly a Toyota year after that. (This will stir them up)

[Holdennumber1]

What is it with Lowndes' car at the moment - broken axle at Sandown, blown engine at Hidden Valley and whatever it was that stuffed him up in Race 1. Its a Ford. Thats all the info you need.;)

[brad]

yeah if toyota come in to 888 would be a year of development so lowndes and whincup wouldn't really be in championship contention..

interesting enough how rusty went... the form should continue into winton.. we'll see how he goes after that.. i'd like to see him stay consistent in the top half of the 10.

[BILLFORD1]

Its a Ford. Thats all the info you need.;)

Seems to be having a similar run as HRT was not so long ago.........???? :D

[spiderken17]

Toyota would need at least a year of off track development before they came to the game. I also dont know what engine they would run, they haven't built a pushrod V8 in decades.

[david5]

Toyota would need at least a year of off track development before they came to the game. I also dont know what engine they would run, they haven't built a pushrod V8 in decades.

Roland reckons there only body panels that need bolting to the 888 shell ????

They could use a destroked Toyota Nascar engine

David

[Leigh]

That's right David. Pre VE, the roll cages were built in the cars. Everybodies seen the pictures of the VE's in construction where they start with the roll cage and chassis, then bolt everything else to that. The BF is built the same!

Given that wheelbase, suspension pick-up points etc etc are all standard, in theory all that is needed to go from Ford to Holden to whatever else is swapping the panels...in reality they may need to "adjust" a bar or two...

[Kashmir]

They could use a destroked Toyota Nascar engine

but Nascar engines use carbys not Fuel injection;)

[Holdennumber1]

I don't think that a Toyota would win for a long time if they joined the V8 Supercars. They would have to sort out the cars drivers and teams well before a win could be achieved, which I think would take a very long time. Also, how many people in Australia would support Toyota. If it were Nissan, yeah sure, but who would seriously want a Toyota to beat our Aussie classics, Holden and Ford.
Cheers,
Holdennumber1

[Kashmir]

I don't think that a Toyota would win for a long time

if they have a power advantage like they do in Nascar they will start dominating,Toyota dominating in Nascar bc of their advantage have made the sport b.s

[Leigh]

They've had a power advantage in Nascar because they run a different bore size. V8Supercars engines are pretty much standard internally between the two manufacturers.

Kasmir, You make it sound like you can't just change between EFI and carby...very easy swap, especially for race teams that make their own manifolds etc

[Kashmir]

they've restricted the toyota engine in the nationwide series, now they just need to look at the sprint cup

[Oh Five]

but who would seriously want a Toyota to beat our Aussie classics, Holden and Ford.
Cheers,
Holdennumber1

I'll go 4 em, getting/got VERY bored with this Holden/Ford circus;)

[gab73]

I don't think that a Toyota would win for a long time if they joined the V8 Supercars. They would have to sort out the cars drivers and teams well before a win could be achieved, which I think would take a very long time. Also, how many people in Australia would support Toyota. If it were Nissan, yeah sure, but who would seriously want a Toyota to beat our Aussie classics, Holden and Ford.
Cheers,
Holdennumber1
Aussie Classics Ford & Holden??? All three are foreignly owned companies that have manufacturing plants in Australia.

[wayno]

I'll go 4 em, getting/got VERY bored with this Holden/Ford circus;)

Ding! Ding! We have a winner. With you Bruce. I used to go to up to seven rounds a year and lately I couldn't give a toss.

[HRT 1-2]

That's right David. Pre VE, the roll cages were built in the cars. Everybodies seen the pictures of the VE's in construction where they start with the roll cage and chassis, then bolt everything else to that. The BF is built the same!

Given that wheelbase, suspension pick-up points etc etc are all standard, in theory all that is needed to go from Ford to Holden to whatever else is swapping the panels...in reality they may need to "adjust" a bar or two...

Don't forget the thing up the front that we all like the sound of, that hasn't quite gone down the track of brand less!!;)

[Leigh]

Don't forget the thing up the front that we all like the sound of, that hasn't quite gone down the track of brand less!!;)

It's nearly there...almost every internal dimension is standardised...

Does it matter which factory the engine block casting or panel stamping came from...because that is all that is different:p

[HRT 1-2]

It's nearly there...almost every internal dimension is standardised...

Does it matter which factory the engine block casting or panel stamping came from...because that is all that is different:p

Are they that close yet?

What has occurred since the introduction the HMS donk (which I believe is derived from an old IRL block) and now to make the Ford unit that close? Obviously the dimensions must be the same but, the components haven't been fully parityised (a word?) yet have they?

[CowboyMatt]

Ding! Ding! We have a winner. With you Bruce. I used to go to up to seven rounds a year and lately I couldn't give a toss.

Agree Wayno - it's all about track position - the driving styles are largely the same, the days of the classic start to finish dicing are long gone.

[Leigh]

Are they that close yet?

What has occurred since the introduction the HMS donk (which I believe is derived from an old IRL block) and now to make the Ford unit that close? Obviously the dimensions must be the same but, the components haven't been fully parityised (a word?) yet have they?


The HMS block was chosen because it is very close to the FMS block in most internal dimensions...

i.e. bore, stroke, V angle, etc etc All the major head dimensions are also similar...

Naturally the location of bearings etc is different, so parts are not interchangeable, but it's as close to a "standard block" as you can practically get without actually having one!

[AMBER ROSE]

I've just checked out the V8supercars site and Cattach has an article on how Rubbing is Racing and all will be fixed next year....lol.

Love the line "Cattach did not elaborate on how the board will ensure that the Championship will be more exciting next year.".

Also an article by Cockie about red vs blue being a non issue and has not been for some years. Maybe they should ask the people in the paddock whether it's an issue. Leaving it wide open for another manufacturer and my guess is sooner rather that later.
Wasn't Bathurst last year based around the theme red vs. blue??

They seem to be in damage control at this stage. I used to watch religiously and now may glance at the TV if it's on due to boring racing, no passing, The drivers too scared to make a move etc.

I suppose we will wait and see if any improvements are made.

[david5]

Black Wiggle is probably basing his Red v Blue being dead on the debarcle of an exercise they thrust on us at the GP. I hear a groundswell of support for the removal of the CPS for the sprint races, heres hoping they get rid of the window as well.

cheers David

[MarkHM]

Quite frankly, I would sooner watch slow-drying paint dry! I used to wait by the TV in the good old days (Group A and up to 1997), now I couldn't realy care less.

[gab73]

I've just checked out the V8supercars site and Cattach has an article on how Rubbing is Racing and all will be fixed next year....lol.

Love the line "Cattach did not elaborate on how the board will ensure that the Championship will be more exciting next year.".

Also an article by Cockie about red vs blue being a non issue and has not been for some years. Maybe they should ask the people in the paddock whether it's an issue. Leaving it wide open for another manufacturer and my guess is sooner rather that later.
Wasn't Bathurst last year based around the theme red vs. blue??

They seem to be in damage control at this stage. I used to watch religiously and now may glance at the TV if it's on due to boring racing, no passing, The drivers too scared to make a move etc.

I suppose we will wait and see if any improvements are made.
Not only was it promoted Red v Blue at the Aus GP, they had to grid up in there colour sequence.

[monarocveightz]

Is there a big difference between DTM cars and our V8SC's?

If not.....Merc & Audi could join in.....I certainly would love Audi to join!:)

[Kashmir]

it would be great to see some euro manufacturers,rather them, than toyota.

[MarkHM]

But with the prevailing "ïf it not made here its not worth having" attitude, if anyone else joined with a 3.2 litre, multi-cam v8 we'd be back to Skyline v Commodore. They'd be banned for being too successful and showing up the locals. I want the best car and team to win, I don't care what logo is on the bonnet.

[monarocveightz]

But with the prevailing "ïf it not made here its not worth having" attitude, if anyone else joined with a 3.2 litre, multi-cam v8 we'd be back to Skyline v Commodore. They'd be banned for being too successful and showing up the locals. I want the best car and team to win, I don't care what logo is on the bonnet.

Thats why you would have a formula they would have to stick too....so there is a parity

[MarkHM]

Parity schmarity. Every class of m/sport has the same problem and as one team gets a bigger budget and competitive advantage then suddenly regs are changed and dumbed down. I despair

[Holdennumber1]

Not only was it promoted Red v Blue at the Aus GP, they had to grid up in there colour sequence. That was just a bit of fun though and something different for the viewers. Also, if Toyota do join the V8's, I bet they will get a big name driver to line up with them( Lowndes or someone similar) which would encourage people to support them.

[05shan]

That was just a bit of fun though and something different for the viewers. Also, if Toyota do join the V8's, I bet they will get a big name driver to line up with them( Lowndes or someone similar) which would encourage people to support them.
According to Auto Action Whincup is keen for a go at a Toyota:D

[Leigh]

But with the prevailing "ïf it not made here its not worth having" attitude, if anyone else joined with a 3.2 litre, multi-cam v8 we'd be back to Skyline v Commodore. They'd be banned for being too successful and showing up the locals. I want the best car and team to win, I don't care what logo is on the bonnet.

They banned em worldwide (except Japan), not just in Australia...