Moffat Ph4?

[Henry]

Just wondering if/when Biante are going to make this model?
The reason I ask, when I last emailed Biante the reply was not at this moment. But having already paid for this model nearly 3 yrs ago to beat the 1st July 2006 price rise, that model shop has now gone BROKE and I have done my money.
I think with most model shops now requesting money/deposits up front that Biante and CC could keep the announcement of a release of a model closer to the release date (inside 1yr). Don't get me wrong its nice to know what models are being made in the near future. Lets face it 3 yrs waiting is a bit much don't you think?
Thanks for listening. Henry

[Leigh]

It's good to know whether to chase the model that was released last year, or wait for a different manufacturer to make one (even if that is several years away).

I wouldn't be putting anything more than a deposit down on any model that was not at least in production (i.e. 2-4 months away).

[david5]

I dont know if Biante would make this car, after all it didnt really exist. The cars that were partially prepared for racing werent stamped phase IVs. The Bowden car was never signwritten for race use in 1972/3 like it is now & IIRC the only time AM ever drove it was some demo laps at Clipsal a few years back. Does a few laps 30 years after its intended race use qualify it for inclusion in the Moffat Collection ?

Im not casting doubt on the importance of the cars of Bowden & Paul Carthew(sp ?) & would love to own something a 100th as special, just pointing out that the Moff car was never completed & raced by Moff.

David

[SDK]

Henry,

Essentially you got scammed by your model shop dude. He should not have been running his business that way. I can assure you, that he did not pass on your payment to Biante. To late now, yet I'd suggest that it is illegal. Any payments or even doposits, should be held in trust. Won't go into it here, but sales income received in advance has different tax/financial treatment etc also.

To chase $200 these days is hardly worth it, yet an honest owner would have returned your cash. Sounds like he deserves to be out of business & broke.

I dont think that there will ever be the hype over a future model, that would require a full upfront payment otherwise you miss out. That supply/demand trend also disappoints me.

The position that I'm in with my model shop providers, is a non-payment reserve, yet I stick to my end of the bargain & they look after me. I've even got a good understanding with a guy interstate, so location is no real issue.

Hard luck.

[mick78]

I dont know if Biante would make this car, after all it didnt really exist. The cars that were partially prepared for racing werent stamped phase IVs. The Bowden car was never signwritten for race use in 1972/3 like it is now & IIRC the only time AM ever drove it was some demo laps at Clipsal a few years back. Does a few laps 30 years after its intended race use qualify it for inclusion in the Moffat Collection ?

Im not casting doubt on the importance of the cars of Bowden & Paul Carthew(sp ?) & would love to own something a 100th as special, just pointing out that the Moff car was never completed & raced by Moff.

David

Yes an important car, but I would like to know about of the history of it from 1973 to when the Bowdens owned it. Did AMC do story on it in the first 5 issues (which I don't have)? I know there has been a few letters in AMC after that from the Bowdens and Paul Carthew about their cars and I am not disputing any of that either but how come it is painted up in the Moffat number 1 etc. Is it presented as it was planned to be raced or what?

As a model it is an interesting curio but as it is a non-racing car my interest in it is limited.

[david5]

Yes an important car, but I would like to know about of the history of it from 1973 to when the Bowdens owned it. Did AMC do story on it in the first 5 issues (which I don't have)? I know there has been a few letters in AMC after that from the Bowdens and Paul Carthew about their cars and I am not disputing any of that either but how come it is painted up in the Moffat number 1 etc. Is it presented as it was planned to be raced or what?

As a model it is an interesting curio but as it is a non-racing car my interest in it is limited.

Yes AMC did it early on in the piece. Bowdens owned it very early in its life, then sold it, then bought it back. I beleive it was then signwritten to what they beleived it would look like if raced. Chris pops in from time to time, he could set us straight.

David

[SDK]

As per another thread, Biante have said that this model is unlikely to be released "anytime soon".

Now in an interest dilema. Did not buy the CC model as preferred to wait for the Biante one, expected that this would also be part of the Moffat Collection, signed COA etc. Reckon there would be plenty more guys in my position.

Be interesting to see haw the secondary market reacts for the prior cc release.

Anybody got an opinion of the quality & detail of the CC model?

[VC SL/E]

Personally, I think the cc version of the Phase 4 is awesome. Looks fantastic in my collection

[fordmad17]

same, Awesome model

[bubba zanetti]

I have to agree,have the members one and the details great.
This model might be one moffat car that biante might not make
for a very long time and still quite afordable;)

[Kashmir]

I guess you can also say this was one of the CC models released just before the severe QC problems started so I guess you can be safe in the quality of it;)

[UNDFTD]

As per another thread, Biante have said that this model is unlikely to be released "anytime soon".

Now in an interest dilema. Did not buy the CC model as preferred to wait for the Biante one, expected that this would also be part of the Moffat Collection, signed COA etc. Reckon there would be plenty more guys in my position.

Be interesting to see haw the secondary market reacts for the prior cc release.

Anybody got an opinion of the quality & detail of the CC model?

yep, im one of those people waiting and waiting for the phase 4 to be released by biante ( its now collecting dust on my watchlist), but after buying my first CC XA RPO83 GT Falcon, i had to get the moffat Phase 4, in my opinion i think its a great model ,and a must if your a moffat or a motorsport fan, sure it doesn't have a signed COA, big woop i say, i reckon grab one while you still can.

[HQGTS74]

I have the cc 1:18 XA GTHO Phase 4, and its my favourite model in my whole collection. Looks very tough and quite accurate imo. Being one of 4 also makes it special:). Can't see Biante making it anytime soon...

Chris

[spolyhronidis]

technically, there were more than 4 made. the rest just weren't referred to as phase 4's.

[HQGTS74]

technically, there were more than 4 made. the rest just weren't referred to as phase 4's.

Yeh true, but only 4 were called the GTHO, and only 3 left now i think.

Hopefully we will see a 1:18 of the Green XA GTHO!!:)

[spolyhronidis]

1 of then was written off in a rally many years ago.

[HQGTS74]

1 of then was written off in a rally many years ago.

I thought it hit a Commodore towing a caravan??:o

[singer]

I thought it hit a Commodore towing a caravan??:o
Urban myth, Chris. It died Rallying;)

[HQGTS74]

Urban myth, Chris. It died Rallying;)

Oh really, you learn something new each day:). I do remember seeing some pics of an XA GTHO in a rally.

Chris

[biante1247]

The Calypso green phase 4 is the only factory phase 4 as it's the only XA GT with HO stamped on the compliance plate. the racing cars don't have that. Not taking anything
away from the race cars, they are unique and special, it's just something worth mentioning.
And yes, the CC phase 4 race car is an awesome model.

[malscar]

Oh really, you learn something new each day:). I do remember seeing some pics of an XA GTHO in a rally.

Chris


The only Ph4 to see competition instead of the fantasy ones.

[david5]

I thought the proportions of the boot in particular were odd on the CC model.

The Green Ph IV is supposed to be breaking ground soon, anymore on that ?

David

[Nick Short]

The road car is not a Phase 4, but an XA GT-HO sedan. The "Phase" description applied to the race programme only.

There is 1 GT-HO road car, and 1 Phase 4 in existence. That's it, not "more than 4 made".

The 2nd Phase 4 was lost through rallying, and the 3rd Phase 4 was never completed.

And of course there's the unofficial XA GT-HO hardtop......

[Buffalo]

So Nick - do tell who you think owns the 1 Phase 4 in existance ?

[spolyhronidis]

The following is paraphrasing from a mag i have on the history of the GT and was published in June 1996:
According to Howard Marsden, there were 4 and a half cars built.
Only 1 was a production model. It was Calypso Green with white trim. It had a range of factory options and was sold to Jack Brabham Ford and is the property of a publicity shy dentist. It had about 85,000 miles on the clock. This is the only one to carry a SIDO number.
The other 3 cars were prototype racecars built by Marsden at his premises in Broadmeadows.
1 of these cars went to John Goss who did a lot of work on the car but never got to race it. As of 96 it was owned by a car dealer in Armadale, done 4000 miles and was not on the market.
Another car was owned by David Bowden from Queensland who acquired the car when he bought a used car dealership. It was ready to race and even had advertising decals all over the car. It was later sold to Rod Mann who had it since 86.
The forth car was still around, but as a wreck. It was orange and originally sold to Rally driver Bruce Hodgson who gave it a hard life. He sold the car and the new owner crashed it in his first rally. The car was salvaged and bought by John Wynne who never got around to rebuilding it.
That just leaves a coupe (the half in 4 and a half cars built) which Bib Stillwell was able to get made. The publishers had no idea where this car is.

Of the 200 sets of parts required to build the 200 Phase IV's for homologation. They went to the aftermarket, the XA GT special and some went into old Phase Three's.

How accurate any of this is, i don't know, but it makes for interesting reading.

[david5]

The road car is not a Phase 4, but an XA GT-HO sedan. The "Phase" description applied to the race programme only.

There is 1 GT-HO road car, and 1 Phase 4 in existence. That's it, not "more than 4 made".

The 2nd Phase 4 was lost through rallying, and the 3rd Phase 4 was never completed.

And of course there's the unofficial XA GT-HO hardtop......

So all those people that have GT-HO road cars cant refer to their cars as "Phase" one, two or threes ?

[Nick Short]

Strictly speaking, no, but what the hey - years of use and its become almost official. And of course the XW GT-HOs weren't called "Phase" anything when they came out.

[GTHO Racers]

'Street Fords' magazine will be doing a special on GTHO's including the Calypso Green Phase 4 some time in the future. The editor has stated that the article will be spread over a number of magazines. The green car still belongs to a Sydney dentist.

Cheers
Ken

P.S. I hope biante make moffats phase 4, the 2nd and 3rd place winners of 1971 Hardie Ferodo so we can put the 1,2,3 place winners together and and and.

[Graeme]

Strictly speaking, no, but what the hey - years of use and its become almost official. And of course the XW GT-HOs weren't called "Phase" anything when they came out.

Hey ... Nick won't like me fueling the fire here, but nobody mentioned the XW GT-HO Phase 1-1/2 or something even odder in the form of :

http://www.fordmusclecars.com.au/viewItem.asp?Item ID=3378

[SDK]

AMC have done this story to death. Anyone that disputes Bowden's version of events gets slammed. He's the self appointed authority on this topic. Was all great reading though.

[XA Craig]

Strictly speaking, no, but what the hey - years of use and its become almost official. And of course the XW GT-HOs weren't called "Phase" anything when they came out.

Nick, all the GTHO's were called Phase 1,2,3 etc.

Ford even had supplements to go with the owners manual.;)

The ONLY compliance plated PHIV is the Calypso Green one owned by the Sydney dentist. The 3 cars made by FSV (red ones) were not plated as PHIV's...this includes the one that was written off in a rally event by Hodgson and Bowdens car.

After the supercar scare most of the parts destined for the PHIV went into the RPO83...this was kept hush hush at the time.;)

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6130/wsmho.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wsmho.jpg )

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6543/wsmho2.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wsmho2.jp g)

[rayman]

Nick, all the GTHO's were called Phase 1,2,3 etc.
Wrong. The first XW GTHO was not officially named a Phase 1 and the Cleveland engined XW GTHO was not officially named a Phase 1 and a half. The XW GTHO Phase 2 was officially named as such.

[GTHO Racers]

Rayman,

Your right about the first XWGTHO, it was simply a GTHO. As for phase 1 and 1.5 isn't it just a common sense way of defining each model or variant.

The GT gurus have done this topic to death. Some prefer windsor HO and cleveland HO to define the Phase 1 and 1.5. Who cares, I just wish Biante would make more of them.

Cheers
Ken

[rayman]

Rayman,

Your right about the first XWGTHO, it was simply a GTHO. As for phase 1 and 1.5 isn't it just a common sense way of defining each model or variant.

The GT gurus have done this topic to death. Some prefer windsor HO and cleveland HO to define the Phase 1 and 1.5. Who cares, I just wish Biante would make more of them.

Cheers
Ken
It is a common sense way. But XA Craig stated it as fact.

[XA Craig]

so what are we disputing here rayman ?? ph1 didnt exist ?? i've given you proof of the ph2 & 3. ph1 is a common term given to the 69' windsor engined XW's in GT circles....has been for years

I never mentioned a ph 1.5

As for the FACT comment, ive given you and the other non believers proof that PH 2 and PH 3 did exist...

[rayman]

No. Just clearing up that XW GTHO's were never officially called a Phase 1. Do you have a supplement with XW GTHO Phase 1 on it?

[Nick Short]

"Most" of the Phase 4 bit didn't go on the RPO83, as stated by various Ford bods in AMC. Bits were scattered throughout the Ford output, but the RPO got little more than a bigger carby.

[Graeme]

"Most" of the Phase 4 bit didn't go on the RPO83, as stated by various Ford bods in AMC. Bits were scattered throughout the Ford output, but the RPO got little more than a bigger carby.

... that and the 'Head Mod' exhaust headers.

I haven't read of any 'QC' type HO engines existing in any XA Falcons.

Also, I remain of the opinion that if Ford weren't going to sell-off those leftover engine 'breathing' elements, they were otherwise obliged to fit them into production vehicles prior to the introduction of ADR27 in 1974.

[biante1247]

The go faster bits were thrown into F100s, LTDs, Fairlanes etc. Just a bit here and a bit there. Most owners would never have noticed or known until it came to replacing a part that didn't quite match up in the parts book.

[Paull]

So Nick - do tell who you think owns the 1 Phase 4 in existance ?

The Sydney orthodontist still owns the car. Roy Verladi of Street Fords will be doing the article as he personally knows the owner of the car. There are small amounts of work to be done on the car prior to the story being completed.

[Paull]

Also, I remain of the opinion that if Ford weren't going to sell-off those leftover engine 'breathing' elements, they were otherwise obliged to fit them into production vehicles prior to the introduction of ADR27 in 1974.

Not neccessarily so Graeme. These parts could still be sold via Dealers to either race teams or owners of pre 1 January 1974 made vehicles well after the introduction of ADR27.