How do model shops sell items.......

[Maximus]

Just wondering how do model shops like Model Mania and the like sell items they have in stock when you can buy almost everything they have in stock either thru ebay or other online shops cheaper and when you ask if they can discount or match a price they say no.

Why would anyone buy from a shop these days unless its a preorder as its practically always more expensive.

[Road Runner 72]

Pre orders and the man off the street who walks in and likes to see what's he's buying as the little extra spent can inspect and get it now, if your like most collectors when one walks into a hobby shop to buy one thing, you walk out with more than one 99% of the time, as they sell more than what's Biante stock as well.

[Maximus]

Yeah but I cant see them selling enough stock to cover wages, rent, heating electricity etc. I just cant work it out.

I went in to The MotorSport Centre today and bargained the owner down on a Minichamps bike to a price that I could get online.
He asked me if I would do that at Safeway and got a little upset but if he wanted the sale he had to drop his price.

I can see where he is coming from but if they want to move stock they have to drop prices.

[Road Runner 72]

I to think like that, as I asked my freindly dealer, and some storys are sureal to say the least.

Not every one shops online, and that is forgoten about a lot.

[Maximus]

I guess so. I like dealing with the shops 1 on 1 but when I can get a CMC $100 cheaper (thats 1/3rd the price they are asking) from an online shop then of course I will get it online.

[Kashmir]

I have also wondered this as well,especially Sheriff's which is by far the most overpriced Lol.

[Maximus]

You obviosly haven't been in Model Mania then

[Kashmir]

You obviosly haven't been in Model Mania then

No,surely they can't be as bad as Sheriff's.

[minh427]

No,surely they can't be as bad as Sheriff's.

Sherriffs is ok for new releases but have to be quick after a while the price goes up.

[Kashmir]

Sherriffs is ok for new releases but have to be quick after a while the price goes up.

Yeah like after 2 weeks LMAO;)

[Holdennumber1]

At Clipsal, there was a transporter setup (not naming anyone) selling new and fairly new release models for $50 over the retail price at other stores. Even though this was rediculous, I still saw people buying VK Group 3's for $200 and a 1:18 Skaife/Tander Bathurst car for $250 (was rediculous at the time but now, probably a good buy). Overall, I saw huge lineups at some stages and people were purchasing all these over priced diecasts.:confused:
Anyway, I guess they can find new collectors who don't know much about them to rip off and make a stack of money.
Also, theres a retailer near me who have crazy prices on diecasts but they don't really date and can still be bought 5 years later and make a profit. They are also smart and only buy 3 or so of every model.
Cheers,:)
Thomas

[Road Runner 72]

Don't turn into a shop bashing thread please.....

There are s bunch of great hobby shops out there..

I collect GMP cars, there higher priced this side as some shops pay the same I get for from the USA, they have to make money somehow, and also picked up some this side cheaper than the us in turn thanks to a shops help ( Thx Laz )

Yeah CMC are $$$$ ( apart from the newish Merc mclaren ) and most people would jump at a price of $100 this side or that side, as under $250 is a steal for aclassic cmc car.

Look a collector this side picked up a ERTL for $90 this side, a bunch of hobby shops stock these for around that price give or take, over in the states they can be found $25us again give or take, bit postage waiting for it etc come into play, just be carful not to bite the hand that feeds you is all.

Cheers

Mike

[Leigh]

Yeah but I cant see them selling enough stock to cover wages, rent, heating electricity etc. I just cant work it out.

I went in to The MotorSport Centre today and bargained the owner down on a Minichamps bike to a price that I could get online.
He asked me if I would do that at Safeway and got a little upset but if he wanted the sale he had to drop his price.

I can see where he is coming from but if they want to move stock they have to drop prices.


So how's that going to work? You have just asked them to sell at below cost...and compete against a group of onliners who don't pay overheads like salaries, rent etc...

I find Model Manias prices to be quite reasonable. Yes they are above "ebay", but you have to expect that when you can go in and inspect the item, and they have overheads as you outlined, unlike on ebay where you get what is sent in whatever condition.

I hope you don't complain when you get the odd item off of ebay that is a dud...that would border on hypocrisy!

[david5]

Plus you cant spend hours on the phone talking car racing & model collecting to ebay:p:rolleyes:

[jager]

I had this issue on Saturday when I picked up a new $170 model from my local store that I could have got from eBay with postage for $135. In the end I decided to honour the commitment to my local store as I had pre-ordered the model, but if I hadn't pre-ordered it I'm not sure I would have been so willing to part with the extra $35.

[ITGRIPS]

i personally wont buy online, i dont trust the people selling but that's me.

Ebay listings either personal or Ebay shops can not be compared to retail shops such the ones mentioned above due to rent, wages, electricity etc etc.

i work in parts sales and one of our pet hates is people coming in and asking for: "the best price" or "is that the best price you can do" or "what about for trade". go to Kmart, Big W, Coles, Woolies ( Safeway for you easterners ) and ask if they can do your loaf of bread cheaper? or ask them what's the best price they can do on a dozen eggs and see how far you get!!!! i've told customers if they arent happy, buy it online or go somewhere else, dont be surpirsed if ya model shops say the same.

have a bit of common sense

[clint024]

just had a look at model mania on line some of there prices are very good but 150 for j villenuve 1 43s and 200 for schumacher 1 43s 250 for schumacher 1 18 elites are extortion

[AmonFan]

When someone asks me my best price for say a Moffat RX-7 i tell them $215 ;) as i assume they are nice people and thinking of my best interest, not theirs :D As i think of others before myself i expect the same ;)

[ITGRIPS]

also, most model shops dont just sell model cars, they sell trains, planes, jigzaw puzzles, puzzles, all sorts of stuff to make their money!! funny that!!

[Road Runner 72]

Its like a kid in a candy store ;)

[biante1921]

I have also wondered this as well,especially Sheriff's which is by far the most overpriced Lol.

I purchased my 2006 1-18 Bathurst winner from Sheriffs just before the boys won in 2007 for $250 delivered to Brisbane.He still made a nice profit,think they where $165 retail.
But it had been released for a while.
Reckon he was kickin himself after the 2007 race.

[Maximus]

So how's that going to work? You have just asked them to sell at below cost...and compete against a group of onliners who don't pay overheads like salaries, rent etc...

I find Model Manias prices to be quite reasonable. Yes they are above "ebay", but you have to expect that when you can go in and inspect the item, and they have overheads as you outlined, unlike on ebay where you get what is sent in whatever condition.

I hope you don't complain when you get the odd item off of ebay that is a dud...that would border on hypocrisy!

Leigh I dont know what they buy the models for but I know what I can buy them for elsewhere. He said we wanted to get out of bikes so I thought there was a deal to be had.
I dont expect models below cost but wouldn't you rather sell 200 models at a $5 profit rather than 5 models for $30 profit?

People on here always complain about duds they get from the shops and I am yet to have a problem from my purchases online.

And one shop in the citys prices are crazy. I was looking at there 1/12 GT40's and I asked the same. He wouldn't even budge on the $900 price tag on the roadcar he had in there.
Sorry but in this business you have to expect people to haggle.

i personally wont buy online, i dont trust the people selling but that's me.

Ebay listings either personal or Ebay shops can not be compared to retail shops such the ones mentioned above due to rent, wages, electricity etc etc.

i work in parts sales and one of our pet hates is people coming in and asking for: "the best price" or "is that the best price you can do" or "what about for trade". go to Kmart, Big W, Coles, Woolies ( Safeway for you easterners ) and ask if they can do your loaf of bread cheaper? or ask them what's the best price they can do on a dozen eggs and see how far you get!!!! i've told customers if they arent happy, buy it online or go somewhere else, dont be surpirsed if ya model shops say the same.

have a bit of common sense

I think haggling for a model car is ok. Isn't it?
They sure dont mind putting prices up on popular new releases when the RRP is something alot lower.

Remember that this is a hobby and all our purchased are not necessary to live.

Would you hit the car dealer up for his BEST PRICE when you need a car for the wife???

Maybe I am not seeing it the way you guys are.

[ITGRIPS]

i know what you are saying and understand but...... you have to compare apples with apples.....

you wouldnt go to a car dealer and say i can get XXX car for $XXX on Ebay would you?

if you are happy buying online go for it but dont expect the shops to drop their prices just because some of the models are cheaper else where, it's not fair to expect that.

[malscar]

I think haggling for a model car is ok. Isn't it?
They sure dont mind putting prices up on popular new releases when the RRP is something alot lower.

Maybe the shops you go to do this, but the ones around here don't do this on new releases. Even if they are high demand ones. Loyalty is a two way street.

However there is one which I know of that does on some older releases they have. I asked if he would sell something at retail since the price he had on it was inflated and he said no since that was the ebay price. I then picked up another car he had that was cheap on ebay and asked if he would sell it at ebay prices and he replied it was RRP. Did not appreciate my point that you can't have it both ways and therefore lost me as a regular client.

[Maximus]

ITGRIPS, yes I have done that but instead of Ebay I said another car dealer can do it for this can you beat it and he wanted the sale so he did.
Other places we went to said no way cant do it. There loss.

I think from now on I will SHOP AROUND and just buy the cheapest rather than haggle as the model shop owners get upset when I do. I know I would if someone did it to me.

Loyalty is a 2 way street and when I was buying heaps of cars Coffey Ford looked after me every time and I didn't even look elsewhere.

But now I am just after certain cars/bikes and want to get them for the best price.

[Garry]

I think haggling for a model car is ok. Isn't it?


Would you appreciate your employer haggling to reduce your pay every time you go to pick up your wage packet??

That's what you are doing to the retailer.


They sure dont mind putting prices up on popular new releases when the RRP is something alot lower.



There is a very small minority of retailers that do inflat prices on popular models, even suggesting that they are on consignment. If you have a problem with certain shops, NAME THEM!!!

RRP (Recommended Retail Price) implies price fixing.

SRP (Suggested Retail Price) is just that, suggested.

The majority of shops sell their stock around SRP.

On one hand, you want to haggle down the retailer's price. On the other hand you are whinging that the retailer sholud not be allowed to haggle the price up.


I have to ask the question; Are you a scalper???

[gordy2au]

i get confused by biante and auto art and others prices as i havent got a lot of these models, so i have to shop around, im a mad trax collector so i know what there worth and they publish a book as well so u can compare prices, shops are always dearer, they have costs, i understand that, but at the end of the day if u really want it youll pay.
thanks for reading my first post

best wishes and luck to all
gordy

[gordy2au]

i personally wont buy online, i dont trust the people selling but that's me.

Ebay listings either personal or Ebay shops can not be compared to retail shops such the ones mentioned above due to rent, wages, electricity etc etc.

i work in parts sales and one of our pet hates is people coming in and asking for: "the best price" or "is that the best price you can do" or "what about for trade". go to Kmart, Big W, Coles, Woolies ( Safeway for you easterners ) and ask if they can do your loaf of bread cheaper? or ask them what's the best price they can do on a dozen eggs and see how far you get!!!! i've told customers if they arent happy, buy it online or go somewhere else, dont be surpirsed if ya model shops say the same.

have a bit of common sense
hi mate, im in the parts buisness too , cant agree more, 28 years of this, but they dont haggle at the supermarket checkout do they?
ps where are u etc

[Maximus]

Would you appreciate your employer haggling to reduce your pay every time you go to pick up your wage packet??

That's what you are doing to the retailer.

There is a very small minority of retailers that do inflat prices on popular models, even suggesting that they are on consignment. If you have a problem with certain shops, NAME THEM!!!

RRP (Recommended Retail Price) implies price fixing.

SRP (Suggested Retail Price) is just that, suggested.

The majority of shops sell their stock around SRP.

On one hand, you want to haggle down the retailer's price. On the other hand you are whinging that the retailer sholud not be allowed to haggle the price up.

I have to ask the question; Are you a scalper???

Around 4 months ago, yes my employer reduced all contractors wages by 10%. Trust me taking a hit like that was bad but not as bad as the 200 people they have laid off since christmas.
And that was something we couldn't haggle. They just said here are you new contracts. Sign them or your out of here.

I didn't complain about model shops putting prices up on popular releases. I just made a statement and no I will not name shops.
Thats not what this thread was about.

Its all about supply and demand right.

No I am not a scalper. What makes you think that???
I am just a regular collector trying to get the most product for my money.

How can anyone compare haggling of food prices at the supermarket to the haggling of prices at a model shop. :confused:

[Garry]

WITHOUT PREDUDICE

Around 4 months ago, yes my employer reduced all contractors’ wages by 10%. Trust me taking a hit like that was bad but not as bad as the 200 people they have laid off since Christmas.
And that was something we couldn't haggle. They just said here are you new contracts. Sign them or you’re out of here.

It sounds like you DO have a vague understanding of how a retailer would feel having to be held to ransom to reduce prices to keep a job. Sounds very similar ??

I didn't complain about model shops putting prices up on popular releases. I just made a statement and no I will not name shops.
That’s not what this thread was about.

Your statement was broad and implied that "THEY", all retailers, put up prices on popular new releases. Statements like that should be narrowed down by naming the shops that do it. It's like me making a broad derogatory statement that encompasses ALL contractors.

Its all about supply and demand right.

Yes, but remember, higher prices are created by limited production and the collector. It is unfortunate that scalpers and the odd retailer takes an unfair advantage of this situation.

No I am not a scalper. What makes you think that???
I am just a regular collector trying to get the most product for my money.

It has been my general observation that it is the scalper that normally complains that a shop has asked for the higher market price. The scalper can't purchase it a SRP and is unable resell for profit.

This situation is also a problem for retailers that have a couple of popular models remaining after supplying their regular customer orders. Both genuine collectors, and scalpers, will chase the model. Sorting out who's who is difficult at times.
Perhaps raising the price IS the right thing to do ?? It would certainly deter the scalper.
The down side is that the collector will not complain too much at the scalper’s price, but watch the sparks fly when it is the retailer.

Personally, I would prefer to supply a genuine "new " customer at SRP with the hope that he will become a regular customer in the future.
No I do not raise my shop prices, I try to supply the genuine customer at SRP. Most times I can pick them


How can anyone compare haggling of food prices at the supermarket to the haggling of prices at a model shop. :confused:

What's the confusion, they both retail products to the public. The fact that it is a different product in immaterial.
Why don't you haggle at the supermarket?? Or perhaps model shops easier pray in this economic crisis??

WITHOUT PREDUDICE

[1370]

You don't own a shop do you, Garry?

The main reason for shops to sell at RRP is that the RRP has a built in mark up of 50%. If that isn't a cushy profit margin, I don't know what is... (to put things in perspective, the mark up on computer bits is usually only 5 to 10%).

All power to the ebay guys for allowing me to buy more cars with my current 2009 allocation of funds. Mind you a fair few retailers also have ebay specials every now and then and it amuses me to pick the purchase from their shops when oridinarily the price would have been higher...

[AmonFan]

You don't own a shop do you, Garry?

The main reason for shops to sell at RRP is that the RRP has a built in mark up of 50%. If that isn't a cushy profit margin, I don't know what is... (to put things in perspective, the mark up on computer bits is usually only 5 to 10%).

All power to the ebay guys for allowing me to buy more cars with my current 2009 allocation of funds. Mind you a fair few retailers also have ebay specials every now and then and it amuses me to pick the purchase from their shops when oridinarily the price would have been higher...

Hmmmm, so my computer shop must sell at a loss, lol as without even asking he takes off $5 from a $50 item ;) Not sure how he affords to run his race cars then :p

[1370]

Hmmmm, so my computer shop must sell at a loss, lol as without even asking he takes off $5 from a $50 item ;) Not sure how he affords to run his race cars then :p

Each to their own... If you are comfortable paying for someone else to go racing, that's your business.

[Leigh]

Gan, your last two posts are the funniest I have read on here in a loooong time...Some words of advice:

1. best to research who you are talking to and
2. By the logic of your last post, you must be comfortable paying for my shed, my collection, my beer etc (those who know me will know what I mean by that) LOL

[david5]

Each to their own... If you are comfortable paying for someone else to go racing, that's your business.

We all pay for other peoples hobbies, what any business person does with their GP is inmaterial. Ebay purchases do more to hurt the hobby than help it. Still it's a free market, to each his own. Don't complain when you get screwed :confused:

[ITGRIPS]

The main reason for shops to sell at RRP is that the RRP has a built in mark up of 50%. If that isn't a cushy profit margin, I don't know what is... (to put things in perspective, the mark up on computer bits is usually only 5 to 10%)...

i'd like to see that!

[Chris Roche]

I will give you my two cents for whats its worth!

Without the die-cast / hobby shops around Australia that stock Biante products, you wouldn't have a Biante! So what would you collect then!

Ebay - wish they could blow the thing up! Worst idea in the world!

Whatever happend to loyal customers coming into the shop and keeping the shops in business! You can now sit at home never get out and visit anyone and buy whatever you want! Typical of the culture we are growing up in!

Just my thoughts!

[VE II]

I think ebay is great for getting the previously released models (cars that have been out for 2 or more years). But new releases on ebay are definitly hurting the shops. Though factor in postage, 9 times out of 10, your local will be cheaper.

[ITGRIPS]

I will give you my two cents for whats its worth!

Without the die-cast / hobby shops around Australia that stock Biante products, you wouldn't have a Biante! So what would you collect then!

Ebay - wish they could blow the thing up! Worst idea in the world!

Whatever happend to loyal customers coming into the shop and keeping the shops in business! You can now sit at home never get out and visit anyone and buy whatever you want! Typical of the culture we are growing up in!

Just my thoughts!

i'm with ya!!

[biante1921]

I think ebay is great for getting the previously released models (cars that have been out for 2 or more years). But new releases on ebay are definitly hurting the shops. Though factor in postage, 9 times out of 10, your local will be cheaper.


Postage is dear on ebay,if i buy on ebay i check postage,contact seller & ask for cheaper post,if he dont agree i dont buy or bid,easy.Mainly after earlier releases.
Also what is RRP? Isnt it just a suggested price,retailers dont have to stick by it.
I just picked up Frosty Cobra from retailer $199,most shops i belive $215 plus.
He also has the newly released Biante Carter/Lawrence Ford $179,even on the Biante site $215 + post.

[Garry]

You don't own a shop do you, Garry?

Yes, I don't hide that fact.


The main reason for shops to sell at RRP is that the RRP has a built in mark up of 50%. If that isn't a cushy profit margin, I don't know what is... (to put things in perspective, the mark up on computer bits is usually only 5 to 10%).


Would you like to buy my business, you could become a millionare overnight with the excessive profit margins. LOL
Interesting you quote 5 to 10% markup on computer parts, you failed to quote the hourly labour costs for installation, virus removal, upgrades, etc ?? Repalced computer parts are rarely returned to the buyer, so how much clear profit is make on reselling these parts??


All power to the ebay guys for allowing me to buy more cars with my current 2009 allocation of funds. Mind you a fair few retailers also have ebay specials every now and then and it amuses me to pick the purchase from their shops when oridinarily the price would have been higher...

Yes, I also do runouts on eBay and list under the shop name.
Unfortunately, it has become a cut throat business for survival

Of interest, I have a couple of "Bahrain" cars spare, do you think I should list them on eBay and at what price? Then I could always sell them to you at below SRP.........

[pitcrew]

From my experiences with my local shop, when I buy from him I don't question the retail prices, as stated above no shops no Biante.
Yes I could of bought from eBay saving some dollars, but I choose to buy from him and help keep him in business.
When I was after some models that were released some time ago, I spoke to my dealer as to what the market prices were at the time and he went out of his way to locate these items with a price that I was happy with,
Having a loyal and honest shop to buy from is a very big part of collecting especially when trying to source those hard to get cars.

Anyway if their was no shop, then no Biante, and there would be no Forum :D

Just me 3 cents worth.
Cheers

[SDK]

My 2 cents worth. I'd by 90% of new models from model shop(s) including a few from Biante.

If I want a back catalogue item this would usually come from ebay or secondly from my Model guy (who is not huge on 2nd hand items anyway).

The concept of ebay is not the problem, more-so some of the people who use it. Inflated prices have been discussed here before, ie Red dust, '08 HRT Bathurst, prices upon Brock's passing, forged signatures, damaged goods etc.

I've never been stung with the purchase of a model from ebay (touch wood). I've sold down parts of my collection on ebay over the years that I lost interest in, plus some of a family members collection as he is now not with us to enjoy it, (more-so stuff from past eras). Unable to substantiate now, yet I'd believe better prices were acheived through ebay for these, than if I had dumped it on the counter at my model shop & much of the stuff went to Europe & USA.

Think it's just a matter of dealing with both avenues, but I'd hate for online auction sites to be blown up altogether & there is more to ebay than just model cars.

Lastly, I'm no lawyer but not sure of the need to open & close a public forum post with "without prejudice". Been an interersting thread all the same.

[gab73]

Why compare a Supermarket with a Model Shop???
One is a necessity which does offer specials, the other is a luxuary.
There is at least 10% discount in most if not all luxuary items.

[Garry]

Lastly, I'm no lawyer but not sure of the need to open & close a public forum post with "without prejudice". Been an interersting thread all the same.

It is indeed an interesting thread, I did not want to be seen as making a personal attack on any one, hence, "without prejudice". Hope that clears it up.

Garry

[Garry]

Why compare a Supermarket with a Model Shop???
One is a necessity which does offer specials, the other is a luxuary.
There is at least 10% discount in most if not all luxuary items.

With the amount of business knowledge being posted on this thread, i'm suprised there are not more model shops around Australia. ROFL

[singer]

My 2 bobs worth

I've found that there is a benefit in growing & maintaining a relationship with your Local Hobby/Model Store.


My Store sees me at least once a f/n if not more frequently;
He knows exactly what I collect, alerts me to things which I may be interested in (& usually he's right);
He can keep things short term for me;
being a regular lets me place my model purchases (if they're a large sum) on layby (not something he does for Johnny off the street);
The Local Shop supports a number of Local Model Clubs; and
he usually gives me a DISCOUNT.I had a relationship with the previous owner of the Store which went sour when he bought another Business & decided to sell off my Laybys on Ebay. Subsequently there are a few holes in my collection.

I like to keep monies in my Community but sometimes if my supplier can't for some reason get me the item or I see a bargain on fleabay, I buy it.

Garry has been a good sport in sending things to the East which I couldn't obtain elsewhere

[Garry]

[QUOTE=singer;346282
Garry has been a good sport in sending things to the East which I couldn't obtain elsewhere[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your kind words, Ken.

Glad to read you have found a good local stockist. He must be pleased to have such a loyal customer as yourself, I know I would be.

Regards, Garry

[Road Runner 72]

Wish all shop did layby at times ken, would save me passing on some cars lol.

What is the time frame on most laybys by the way? as you can pay it off before its released I take it, as it would beifit both party's, one seller gets cash & buyer gets car on release date, or a small time frame after release, as a family member who works a K-Mark see's so much layby junk, like people putting things on layby & never paying them off, that would kill a small hobby store I would take it.
It might be something I might look at doing from time to time, on rainy days lol

Some eBayers even offer layby.

Cheers

[pitcrew]

Sorry to butt in.
My shop gets the cars in and if I'm not cashed up, he puts them out the back for me to pay off, no time frame, but I do try and pay them off as quick as possible.
He's very good with his regulars.
Cheers

[AmonFan]

Wish all shop did layby at times ken, would save me passing on some cars lol.

What is the time frame on most laybys by the way? as you can pay it off before its released I take it, as it would beifit both party's, one seller gets cash & buyer gets car on release date, or a small time frame after release, as a family member who works a K-Mark see's so much layby junk, like people putting things on layby & never paying them off, that would kill a small hobby store I would take it.
It might be something I might look at doing from time to time, on rainy days lol

Some eBayers even offer layby.

Cheers

I can't speak for everyone however its often over a period of 2 months ;)

[singer]

Wish all shop did layby at times ken, would save me passing on some cars lol.

What is the time frame on most laybys by the way? as you can pay it off before its released I take it, as it would beifit both party's, one seller gets cash & buyer gets car on release date, or a small time frame after release, as a family member who works a K-Mark see's so much layby junk, like people putting things on layby & never paying them off, that would kill a small hobby store I would take it.
It might be something I might look at doing from time to time, on rainy days lol

Some eBayers even offer layby.

Cheers

We wonder why L/B isn't offered at most stores?:(

If I order an item or place it on layby, I honour my debt to the store, as they've already laid their money out.

Its the ratbag element who don't honour their word, who foul it for the rest of us.:mad:

[Garry]

Sorry to butt in.
My shop gets the cars in and if I'm not cashed up, he puts them out the back for me to pay off, no time frame, but I do try and pay them off as quick as possible.
He's very good with his regulars.
Cheers

You hit the nail on the head, 'regulars'.
Most retailers will put aside models for their regular customers. 6 weeks is not uncommon for me.
Loyalty IS a two way street.
Understanding your customers needs and circumstances is all part of the business.

Garry

[AmonFan]

You hit the nail on the head, 'regulars'.
Most retailers will put aside models for their regular customers. 6 weeks is not uncommon for me.
Loyalty IS a two way street.

Garry

6 weeks Wowsa, so im not the only Softy around lol..... The thing that spins me out is you get people calling you hassling on the arrival of a model, then you tell them its in and they'll say, i'll pick it up in 2 weeks, lol.....

[Garry]

6 weeks Wowsa, so im not the only Softy around lol..... The thing that spins me out is you get people calling you hassling on the arrival of a model, then you tell them its in and they'll say, i'll pick it up in 2 weeks, lol.....

Were on the same wave length.

Garry

[gab73]

With the amount of business knowledge being posted on this thread, i'm suprised there are not more model shops around Australia. ROFL
So you as a Model Shop owner sell a product that is a necessity or a luxuary????

[Road Runner 72]

Okay for me 6 weeks is long enough if not a wee bit to long.

Can one layby a car that say is due out in a month or so & slowly pay bulk of it off before it lands? or is it not wise to incase the car gets scrapped?

As Laz being a softy is one thing but I bet you dont like holding cars over a six week period? ones has to pay the bills right.

Anyway hope I did not take this to far off topic, but thanks for the reply guys.

pitcrew your right, a loyal customer is a good thing as the shop owner knows the money is not to far away when he holds cars, as for me I have a small hike across to Laz's but he always is nice and understanding about it, likewise if I cant make it in about a two week time frame I pay for cars over the phone.

Also Garry thanks for your feedback as well, good read this thread so far!

[malscar]

6 weeks Wowsa, so im not the only Softy around lol..... The thing that spins me out is you get people calling you hassling on the arrival of a model, then you tell them its in and they'll say, i'll pick it up in 2 weeks, lol.....


Same as my local. He has now started to tell the people who are not his regulars that they need to pay/pick up within a week or the first person on the reserve list gets called.

He does not layby as the room he has to store things is very limited and was burnt previously by a collector when he was in another shop that had some room.

Since I do spend a fair bit with him, he does go that extra mile and knows I appreciate it. My pre-order list scares me sometimes, yet I have never failed to buy what comes in for me at RRP.

[wazza002]

How do model shops sell items.......

With big mark ups Lol :D:D

[AmonFan]

How do model shops sell items.......

With big mark ups Lol :D:D

Quite incorrect Wazza, having been around a long time in various retail i know the truth however i fail to waste my time explaining when i could be talking to someone who actually knows what Mark Winterbottom did before he raced a V8 Stupidcar ;)

[waldo]

I only buy models (very early releases) off ebay that my dealer cant help me with, other than that I remain loyal to dealing with one retailer. Something to consider with pricing on ebay is how desperate is someone to add something particular to their collection. I have seen a 1:43 Dinkum 1994 Bathurst winner sell for $439 on ebay and my dealer had the same model in 1:24 scale for$250. Which one would you buy?

[wazza002]

Quite incorrect Wazza, having been around a long time in various retail i know the truth however i fail to waste my time explaining when i could be talking to someone who actually knows what Mark Winterbottom did before he raced a V8 Stupidcar ;)

arrrrrh got a bite Lol :D Nah not having a go at you guy's, But I was having fun with the massage Amonfan, Hey so what did mark winterbottom do before V8's mate I like you know that thanks.

cheers wazza ;)

[rayman]

I only buy models (very early releases) off ebay that my dealer cant help me with, other than that I remain loyal to dealing with one retailer. Something to consider with pricing on ebay is how desperate is someone to add something particular to their collection. I have seen a 1:43 Dinkum 1994 Bathurst winner sell for $439 on ebay and my dealer had the same model in 1:24 scale for$250. Which one would you buy?
If I collected 1/43rd and the rest of the collection was 1/43rd, then I would buy the 1/43rd.

[malscar]

, Hey so what did mark winterbottom do before V8's mate I like you know that thanks.

cheers wazza ;)


Like a few of the younger guys these days Formula Ford

[AmonFan]

Wazza, good to see, i guess you'll be ordering the soon to be announced 1:18 scale JNL Allkart 1995 NSW Open Champs edition then :D

[wazza002]

Like a few of the younger guys these days Formula Ford

Is that it, Formula fords........;)

[Road Runner 72]

Bloody karting goons everywhere :p

[AmonFan]

Bloody karting goons everywhere :p

LOL beats having a V8 thats running on about 5 cylinders :p
To answer the question about paying off models before they arrive, some choose to do that although id reckon your better off keeping it in your bank so your getting interest on it :D

[Road Runner 72]

Good point. But it's the banks money lol

[Oh Five]

I normally pay off before they arrive, if i pay in $300, he writes $330 in the book. Works well for both of us.:)

[Leigh]

How do model shops sell items.......

With big mark ups Lol :D:D

That's what makes me laugh about this thread...I've never paid any higher than RRP (or SRP for the pedants) for a recently released model. If a model is more than 2 years old and still sitting in the shop, then there is one of two things happening, either the shop bought it second hand, and has a mark-up on the price they bought it at, or the item has been sitting around for two years and is paying its own rent on the piece of real estate it occupies...people often forget that it is more expensive to "store" goods than what it is to "sell" goods...who pays for the storage? The purchaser! Otherwise the retailer would go bust.

Love the comparison with the supermarkets. The average shelf time (that is the time from delivery at the warehouse to the time of sale) for an item in a supermarket is less than a week...that time suggests that supermarkets are NOT charging enough! Shelf time has a BIG influence on the profitability of a business.

[supa-roo]

I normally pay off before they arrive, if i pay in $300, he writes $330 in the book. Works well for both of us.:)

I like that idea

[Buffalo]

The main reason for shops to sell at RRP is that the RRP has a built in mark up of 50%. If that isn't a cushy profit margin, I don't know what is... (to put things in perspective, the mark up on computer bits is usually only 5 to 10%).

Now that's really funny ....

[david5]

LOL beats having a V8 thats running on about 5 cylinders :p
To answer the question about paying off models before they arrive, some choose to do that although id reckon your better off keeping it in your bank so your getting interest on it :D

Or hidden inside a book so your the only one who knows its there :rolleyes:.

I'm being really good not giving in to temptation, I just wish some of these cars would be released.:o

[00lowndes]

I'm with you Garry. Some of these people don't undestand the word LOYALITY. I've been loyal to my store for more than 8 years now and they have never let me down. They have even gone out of their way to get me old missed models.

As for mark up. If a store got 50% they would be millionars. But but the time you take out all the overheads they may make 10% for them selves. So if you haggle a 10% discount they make nothing.

So if I asked some of you complainer to work for noting you would be Ok with that.

[ITGRIPS]

So you as a Model Shop owner sell a product that is a necessity or a luxuary????

it's spelt "LUXURY" and what's that got to do with anything???? just because you say it's a "luxury" item you should be able to bargain?? i dont think so......

go to a sports store and bargain down the price on a football or a tennis racket and see how far ya get, go to a book store and try and get a novel at the best price ya can, go to a clothing shop and try bargaining down a jumper... would you like me to go on..........?

[ITGRIPS]

ok, here's and eg of what happens in the real retail world:
total sales for the month $190,000
total cost of goods sold $123,000
gross profit 1 $67,000
total operating costs ( rent, wages, elec, etc etc ) $42,000
total profit $25,000..... so a return on sales of just over 13%

in the above example, sales are around plus 55% on costs but........ you have to, if you didn't you would never return a profit.

lets try a mark up of about 30% since 50% is too high:
total sales for the month $160,000
total cost of goods sold $123,000
gross profit 1 $37,000
total operating costs ( rent, wages, elec, etc etc ) $42,000
total loss $5,000

[SDK]

Just from that ITGRIPS, based on 50/50 sales of 1:18/1:43 at RRP of $215 & $60, average sale price is $137.50.

Worked on gross sales of $190K per month. This equates to 1380 models sold per month or 57 per day based on a 6 day trading week. Aware that the above is only a thumb nail sketch, & they sell other stuff etc, yet would the average shop get 60 models out the door (on everage) every day? (18720 models per year).

Other expenses that impact profit are interest (if part of stock is funded) plus merchant fees on credit card purchases, say 2% of sale price.

[Garry]

So you as a Model Shop owner sell a product that is a necessity or a luxuary????

I sell a product, as a collector you may think it to be a necessity. Ask a collector’s partner and the answer will probably be a luxury, or worse...

Like anything, it comes down to a 'Need' or a 'Want'.
I taught my kids that difference before they reached the age of 5yrs. Yes, they are both avid collectors, just not diecast, unfortunately.
Now who shall I leave my personal collection to, MMmmm

[gab73]

it's spelt "LUXURY" and what's that got to do with anything???? just because you say it's a "luxury" item you should be able to bargain?? i dont think so......

go to a sports store and bargain down the price on a football or a tennis racket and see how far ya get, go to a book store and try and get a novel at the best price ya can, go to a clothing shop and try bargaining down a jumper... would you like me to go on..........?
Always works for me, seems like i'm the only one who can get a deal. Like i stated earlier, if you can't get at least 10% off the marked price go somewhere else.

[AmonFan]

Always works for me, seems like i'm the only one who can get a deal. Like i stated earlier, if you can't get at least 10% off the marked price go somewhere else.

So your a bargain hunter Gab, rather than a collector ;)

[gab73]

So your a bargain hunter Gab, rather than a collector ;)
As far as purchasing models, i have bought all my models new from my model shop at discount $20 of RRP at his sugestion from the beginning.

[the_goldie]

If you can get a discount off a model or anything else then good luck to you. Everybody likes a bargain. I shop at one shop for all new releases and receive a discount and for the models I miss or older ones I want to get to fill in space or see as a bargain somewhere else I buy them.

Maybe next time I am at Woolworths and spend $200 or more I should ask if that is their best price for all the items and see what they say - would be humorous none the less.

[AmonFan]

Some places have looked after you as you enter the door ;)

[Garry]

As far as purchasing models, i have bought all my models new from my model shop at discount $20 of RRP at his sugestion from the beginning.

So, loyalty IS a 2 way street ?

And there's you been telling everyone that you haggle down prices, all along it was the retailer that offered "you" the discount in the beginning..

[gab73]

So, loyalty IS a 2 way street ?

And there's you been telling everyone that you haggle down prices, all along it was the retailer that offered "you" the discount in the beginning..
Here we go again, it was some retailers on this forum who stated "how dare they ask for a discount, bet thay don't do that at the supermarket" that prompted my responses.
I should feel guilty buying a $7000 bedroom suite for $5200 after 3 phone calls. Better the $1800 in my pocket than Gerry Harvey's me thinks.

[zoomster]

Tell you the truth I did at one stage buy on ebay,but because of the postage,other paypal charges,I just look around at the local stores a lot now,I have brought cars that have been traded in,some times people I contact on forums.Even through all my collection is made up of non-Australian cars some shops can get it in for you,you soon find which shops are worth spending your money on,and the ones that are not worth it.I am a Aussie and try to shop in Australia.
Cya

[Garry]

Here we go again, it was some retailers on this forum who stated that prompted my responses.
I should feel guilty buying a $7000 bedroom suite for $5200 after 3 phone calls. Better the $1800 in my pocket than Gerry Harvey's me thinks.


At no time has a post on this thread contained, QUOTE "how dare they ask for a discount, bet they don't do that at the supermarket".

I think you may be missing the point. A few of the posts have indicated that it is a right to get a discount on a product.

As a retailer, I take offence to people (consumers) that feel that prices shown are ALWAYS negotiable. Sorry, they are not.

I certainly don't have a problem if you can negotiate a discount, go for it. A few phone calls can occasionally produce a significant saving.

For example, Clothing, Giftware, Furniture, White Goods etc. can have a markup in excess of %100. With markups like that, discounts may be had, sometimes.
On the down side, if the salesperson is on commission, it is they who absorb the loss, not the shop.

I hope that clarifies my stand on the subject.

Getting back to the title of the thread : How do model shops sell items....... I often wonder???

[Damage]

I dont think you can compare negotiating on a price for a $3 loaf of bread with a $250 model, a $1000 bed or a $20000 car. Many retailers factor in a "haggle" so it seems the client is getting a discount. Everybody is happy.

I dont like the label 'consumer' when it comes to appliances or collectables. Models are not groceries so I think I am a customer. Nobody is being forced to lower thier price at gunpoint, so just as the shops have the right to say no, so does the lowly and stupid consumer have the right to shop elsewhere.

[Garry]

I dont think you can compare negotiating on a price for a $3 loaf of bread with a $250 model, a $1000 bed or a $20000 car. Many retailers factor in a "haggle" so it seems the client is getting a discount. Everybody is happy.

I dont like the label 'consumer' when it comes to appliances or collectables. Models are not groceries so I think I am a customer. Nobody is being forced to lower thier price at gunpoint, so just as the shops have the right to say no, so does the lowly and stupid consumer have the right to shop elsewhere.

Personally, I don't fancy my chances of pricing a model at say, $239.00 and then offering 10% discount to bring the price down to the SRP of $215.00. Some how I can't see that catching on in the model industry either.

As the thread had wondered a little to encompass other products, I felt to generalize was appropriate, hence the use of the words, 'Retailer' and 'Consumer'.

I do agree, as a stockist of models I service my customers, and do that to the best of my ability. Noting that, my regular customers do take preference over casual customers.

I am a little concerned that you have decided to brand consumers as ‘lowly and stupid’, they are not.

Of course the consumer / customer can choose to purchase what they want and where they want, that goes without saying.. Same as a consumer / customer can also ask for a discount, as long as they don’t take a refusal as offensive.

Happy collecting, Garry

[Damage]

Far be it from me to pretend to know anything about the intricacies of retailing but I would assume part of it would be nursing the 'casual' customer to increase the chance of them becoming a 'regular' one? Especially with things that are regularly released and collectable (so taking loaves of bread and fridges out of the equation.)

Wouldnt this unit be part of the Retailing 101 degree along with advertising, incentive and loyalty programmes, people skills, discounts etc? This is where I would think a B & M shop has the edge over the online competition and should be making more use of the closer relationship than can be made in person.

Hey look, what would I know Gaz but I liked the "Without Prejudice" quote earlier and wondered where you picked that up from :D

BTW: The "lowly and stupid" bit was tongue-in-cheek.

[Garry]

Far be it from me to pretend to know anything about the intricacies of retailing but I would assume part of it would be nursing the 'casual' customer to increase the chance of them becoming a 'regular' one? Especially with things that are regularly released and collectable (so taking loaves of bread and fridges out of the equation.)

Wouldnt this unit be part of the Retailing 101 degree along with advertising, incentive and loyalty programmes, people skills, discounts etc? This is where I would think a B & M shop has the edge over the online competition and should be making more use of the closer relationship than can be made in person.

Hey look, what would I know Gaz but I liked the "Without Prejudice" quote earlier and wondered where you picked that up from :D

BTW: The "lowly and stupid" bit was tongue-in-cheek.


I'll give you a couple examples of looking after my regular customers.

The release of the '1:43 1966 Bathurst winning mini, limited to 600. The 1:18 2007 'Bahrain' car, of which I only receiving 50% of my order. I have had several calls from casual customers, ALL of which have NOT been supplied, even though I am still waiting on my regular customers to pickup.

Casual customers are more than welcome to be included in my pre-order lists. Unfortunately, they are normally oppertunists looking to make a quick buck from the genuine collector.

So when are you going to come in and introduce yourself. It will not be hostile, I promise. ;-)

LOL

[AmonFan]

LOL Garry, you rock mate :D I think im the only hostile one......

Garry do you get the guys who ask you for a Bahrain Cobra and also add that they buy all the new releases inyet oddly do not buy Yellow HX Holden's, Skaife Skyline's, Carter Falcon's etc ;)

The day someone comes into me and says, mate i missed out on a bahrain Cobra because i had other models on order, but they were'nt going for much on Ebay so i figured id give them a miss... Had a few others on hold for over 2 months ;) I'll probably help them on the honesty factor :D

[Garry]

LOL Garry, you rock mate :D I think im the only hostile one......

Garry do you get the guys who ask you for a Bahrain Cobra and also add that they buy all the new releases inyet oddly do not buy Yellow HX Holden's, Skaife Skyline's, Carter Falcon's etc ;)

The day someone comes into me and says, mate i missed out on a bahrain Cobra because i had other models on order, but they were'nt going for much on Ebay so i figured id give them a miss... Had a few others on hold for over 2 months ;) I'll probably help them on the honesty factor :D

Thanks for your reply. Well....., don't get me started.

I do get hostile on the odd occasion. LOL
Damage and I are ok,…….. I think??? LOL Damaaaaaage????

It's the enquires via a phone call or in person from casual customers that I’ve NEVER heard or seen before. The questions like, have you got a 1:18 2006 Winterbottom, or, 1:18 2007 'Bahrain car' or, 2008 Bathurst Winner, or, an Effigy. Come on, do they really think the poor old stockist is that naive.

Scalpers ARE a scourge.

See…….. I told you not to get me started.

I get the feeling that we have a lot in common when it comes to taking good care of the regular customer.

Garry

[AmonFan]

I did get asked for a Jamie Lowndes Red Rock car once plus a few other doozies that escape me :p

[Damage]

I do get hostile on the odd occasion. LOL
Damage and I are ok,…….. I think??? LOL Damaaaaaage????
Garry

WITHOUT PREJUDICE ;)

I dont recall you getting hostile Garry and of course we are okay. Unlike some people I am prepared to leave the past where it belongs. In two words I'm meek and mild, ask Geoff (murf), he's been to my place, I'm a pushover, 5 foot tall and 45kg. I drive a bright yellow 120Y.

[Garry]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE ;)

I dont recall you getting hostile Garry and of course we are okay. Unlike some people I am prepared to leave the past where it belongs. In two words I'm meek and mild, ask Geoff (murf), he's been to my place, I'm a pushover, 5 foot tall and 45kg. I drive a bright yellow 120Y.

Not a problem. If you do get a chance drop down and say Hi.

I.m sure Geoff said you were 6'2", 130kg and rides a Harley ?????? LOL

[AmonFan]

Not a problem. If you do get a chance drop down and say Hi.

I.m sure Geoff said you were 6'2", 130kg and rides a Harley ?????? LOL

I can talk eye to eye with Bargs :p

[Damage]

Not a problem. If you do get a chance drop down and say Hi.

I.m sure Geoff said you were 6'2", 130kg and rides a Harley ?????? LOL

Will do mate. Hate Harleys tho and 6'2" is a stretch :D

[XW #901 180mph]

I too sometimes have a problem with a lot of this and can get a bit grumpy and I have to work fairly hard at not coming across as hostile on this subject.

These hard to get models are only ever available from my shop to regulars because as Garry said the risk of the guy on the other end of the phone that you have never heard of being a scalper is too great.

As it is we usually don't have enough to cover all the requests from regulars on these types of cars anyway.

If all shops operated this way the scalpers would be stuffed and their would be no scalping.

I figure that if someone rings up looking for a rare new release and they are not a regular customer of mine they are either someone elses regular customer or a scalper.

Then there is the guy that rings up for a rare car but 6 months earlier didn't pick up his pre-order because either A: he bought it cheaper on ebay or B: it didn't go up on ebay and he couldn't make a profit so didn't want it any more and thinks I have forgotten about it, well I won't even mention what I am thinking during this phone call but all that pops out of my mouth is a "sorry sold out".

Its funny how the mind works and that you can remember someone even 5 years later that duds you.

Ooops, now I've got myself going on the subject of failed pre-orders.
Maybe this subject needs it own thread.
Anyone got any idea's on what we could name this phenomenon as scalpers are called scalpers maybe this could be called BOGUS PRE-ORDERERS or OPORTUNIST PRE-ORDERERS AS LONG AS IT GOES UP ON EBAY STRAIGHT AWAY or UN-ORDERERS etc etc.

Let me know your idea's as we may be able to invent a new word.

Short story about a guy that pre-ordered 2 x 1977 Biante Moffat twin sets back years ago just before they were released.
Anyway I contacted him again and again always with the promise that he would be in to pick them up soon which never happened.
One day in conversation with another shop here in S.A. his name came up and this shop also had him down for 2 sets that were never picked up.
After that I rang a few of the other shops around S.A. and as it turned out he had 2 of these on order with nearly everyone with the idea of making a killing on ebay except that they went down instead of up.
I wonder where he buys his models from now, probably interstate as he burnt all his bridges here in S.A.

On the subject of price haggling, from past experience I have found if you are at RRP on new releases and a new customer is trying to set up to become a regular and his first concern is pricing instead of service, he will be gone in no time as he will shop around and someone will offer him a better deal by a few dollars.
I have many many pre-order customers and don't run any loyalty discounts etc and all are happy to pay RRP as they are happy with the service.

Regards Mark.

[Maximus]

Mark great read and agree with everything you said.

The preorder thing would be annoying for model shops but thats a whole new topic
I am now trying to work out the new word. :D

On new releases I agree that the price is firm and should be RRP as set by Biante, Autoart, Exoto etc.

This next bit is not targeted at you just a comment.
What this thread originally was about is the model shop that have had a not very popular model on the shelves for the past few years and wont budge on the price at all.
Wouldn't they rather sell it for a small profit and get rid of it now rather than have it sit there for another 2 years???

[VE II]

If I want to chase down a previously released car that my dealer doesn't have i will often ring around shops or send a mass email out. I'm talking like seton 04 or a lowndes 05 car. Nothing huge. Do shops have a problem with that? Or are they happy to open up their products to a new customer...only if it's a one off (mind u, I have often gone back to the stores that have helped me).
What about ppl who miss out on a preorder at their regular shop. What should they do? Should they try and get ONE at a non-regular store? or are u guys saying if they aren't a regular then u'd rather not put their name down?

[Maximus]

Thats the thing though. I dont have a DEALER as I dont buy models that often anymore and the ones I buy now are older releases so I think there are good buys to be had.
If I were to walk into any model shop and buy a new release then for sure I wouldn't even ask for a better price but its the older UNWANTED releases that I mean.

[SDK]

Well put XW #901 yet unfortunately I don't think adding anything further in your email to customers regarding your pre-order policy will eliminate the problem, unfortunately.

If a customer comes to you on price, they will leave you on price. Sure you can have some fun in between, yet treat the relationship for what it is.

As far as a new thread goes, I think that the retailers on here should have a thread with all their stories about customers who have or try to scam them. That would be a great read.

[singer]

I've been collecting Diecast in its various forms for 0ver 40yrs & I still do as I enjoy my Hobby.

Garry, Mark, Daniel & Laz have all helped me out at various times over the many years that I've been collecting.

MANK THANKS to these retailers (& a few more whose names I can't remember atm) who are discriminating enough to provide the SERVICE which we should all aspire to, whatever profession we're in.

[malscar]

Might also embarrass a few who read this i am sure.

[Garry]

If I want to chase down a previously released car that my dealer doesn't have i will often ring around shops or send a mass email out. I'm talking like seton 04 or a lowndes 05 car. Nothing huge. Do shops have a problem with that? Or are they happy to open up their products to a new customer...only if it's a one off (mind u, I have often gone back to the stores that have helped me).
What about ppl who miss out on a preorder at their regular shop. What should they do? Should they try and get ONE at a non-regular store? or are u guys saying if they aren't a regular then u'd rather not put their name down?

These days pre-orders cannot be guarenteed, mainly due to the wholesale orders being cut back. I personally had my 'Bahrain' order cut by 50%.
This puts the stockist in an arkward situation, leaving them to allocate the available models among their customer pre-orders.
In all probabilty, ringing around to other retailers may result in the same reply, "sorry, sold out".

No retailer in their right mind will turn down a legitamate sale, provided they have spare stock. However, I would suggest that you get yourself on a mailing list with a reliable stockist. If you place pre-orders, date them to ensure your 'pecking order'. As is constantly be advised, loyalty is 2 way, pick up your pre-orders.

My definition of a regular customer is NOT neccassarily someone that buys heaps of models. A good working '2 way' retailer / customer relationship is all that I ask. And of coarse, for my wholesale order to be delivered in full.

[Garry]

As far as a new thread goes, I think that the retailers on here should have a thread with all their stories about customers who have or try to scam them. That would be a great read.

I would love for Biante and CC to make available a "private" thread for retailers (ONLY) to post to.

Would any scalpers like to post objections to this suggestion.?????????

[Garry]

Thats the thing though. I dont have a DEALER as I dont buy models that often anymore and the ones I buy now are older releases so I think there are good buys to be had.
If I were to walk into any model shop and buy a new release then for sure I wouldn't even ask for a better price but its the older UNWANTED releases that I mean.

Maximus, May I suggest that you PM the retailers that have posted to this thread, it should be easy to see 'Who's Who". By introducing yourself you would have made the contact. From then on, if you require assistance those retailers will know who they are dealing with. The occasional purchase does not exclude you from being a "regular customer".

Making a 'deal' with any retailer is a personal thing, and should be kept between the buyer and the seller.

Happy collecting, Garry

[Maximus]

I would love for Biante and CC to make available a "private" thread for retailers (ONLY) to post to.

Would any scalpers like to post objections to this suggestion.?????????

What is this 'scalper' bug you have???

How about if the RETAILERS on here sponser a few of the competitions then they could even have a area where they can sell stuff too???
Other forums do that and it works quite well and its a WIN WIN situation for the collectors on here.

[Damage]

I would love for Biante and CC to make available a "private" thread for retailers (ONLY) to post to.

Would any scalpers like to post objections to this suggestion.?????????

I'm not a scalper but I object to any 'restricted' or 'private' areas in public forum as it breeds a destabilising undercurrent and a kind of 'haves' and 'have nots' culture. I think if any of us have something to say it can be said out in the open or if its a 'for your eyes only' kind of thing, PM's are the go. JMHO...

[Maximus]

Maybe Garry, Start a forum on your model shops website just for retailers???

[Oh Five]

So with a private section Gary, do you mean that you can use it to see if I (for eg) have ordered several red dusts, frosty cobra's etc off Larry or Mark or Rays parents etc??
If so then i think that is wrong, and no I am not a scalper ( i do invest in some) but i do have a couple of "regular dealers" to ensure i get what i want

[Garry]

What makes you think names are not already being discussed between some shops ???????

How many regular secondary market sellers declare the profit on their tax return, after all, it is uearned income.

By law, all eBay and Paypal transactions are available to the taxman.



Food for thought.

[ratster68]

I think a lotta collectors out there also use their girlfriends and wifes names as a way of doubling up??

[Damage]

What makes you think names are not already being discussed between some shops ???????

Whatever they said I said about you Garry, its all lies. So is the 36 Skaife 60th, 44 Red Dusts and 31 Frosty Cobras I bought & sold through 9 eBay usernames. Lies, LIES I tell ya!!! :D

[Garry]

Whatever they said I said about you Garry, its all lies. So is the 36 Skaife 60th, 44 Red Dusts and 31 Frosty Cobras I bought & sold through 9 eBay usernames. Lies, LIES I tell ya!!! :D

ROFL

[bartman71]

Buyers point of view here, it goes both ways. A model shop I won't name that I've bought a heap of cars from couldn't supply me with a Winterbottom Cobra but I note they have one for sale on Ebay with a marked up price.

There are some bad buyers out there but also bad dealers and as always its the minority that give the majority a bad name.

If the dealers want a seperate section, I couldn't care less. The secret handshake would be a bit hard over the net wouldn't it?

[My Element]

i think model shops aren't supposed to sell cars on ebay until a certain time period has passed.

[ratster68]

unfortunately there is quite a few that do it (eastern states mainly)can name a few but not the place to do so.
who does monitor this no one i suspect??
do the suppliers to retail shop give a hoot dont think so! money is money

[Garry]

i think model shops aren't supposed to sell cars on ebay until a certain time period has passed.

I agree, ALL pre- orders should be filled, if stcok allows. But it does cut both ways.

Hypaphetically, a retailer receives their stock and fills ALL his pre-orders.
When that model increase in price due to demand, should the retailer have the choice to sell the remaining stock at the market price, or have to sell to an unknown customer so that they can sell it a market price ???????? Before replying, I did say that ALL pre-orders had been filled.

" How Do Model Shops Sell......." You tell me!!

[malscar]

ratster, CC do try to identify the ebay seller and have managed it with a few sellers. The red dust was a case in point and once CC were informed they tracked down the retailer and the offending ebay listings were pulled very quickly. I assume Biante would do the same.

[ratster68]

cheers malscar thankyou for the update
what happened to the retailer??
still selling cc's??

[malscar]

No Idea.

[Garry]

unfortunately there is quite a few that do it (eastern states mainly)can name a few but not the place to do so.
who does monitor this no one i suspect??
do the suppliers to retail shop give a hoot dont think so! money is money

The quicker collectors find an honest stockist the better. There are a lot of stockists out there that sell at SRP and would welcome new customers, albeit at the expense of the un-named.

It is monitored by toothless tigers. This is due to ACCC Anti Price Fixing laws.
A few members have already stated that a central system to monitor multi buyers, is NOT ON!!! How then, can you begin to monitor stockists ???

Wholesalers DO care, but it near impossible to police. At the end of the day it is in the hands of the genuine collector........

[ratster68]

true and well said hear that all collectors it is up to us!
as for a cc system not on, maybe 95% of us are guilty??

[wazza]

this loyalty thing is crap, case in point, I was pre-order #1 (via net pre-order system) for a red dust with a dealer in Newcastle that I have spent quite a few dollars with, almost all my collection to be exact, when it came to the crunch, because I had "become a net orderer" I was pushed aside, I chose to use their net system for convienience, saved me driving in, and I was happy paying for postage, after a fe phone calls and emails I find out the walk ins got priority, turns out the shop ran two pre-order systems, and the net system comes second, so now I'm up that well know creek, as I moved to a small town and now have to do all my ordering via the net, how do you think I feel when the popular models are over booked...

[Maximus]

Garry, shops can put ANY PRICE they want on their model cars as we can see.
If they sell for that great but if not then they need to do something if they want to sell them. Discounting them is the only way.

This thread was meant for the older released model cars and bikes that have been sitting there for years at a price that will never sell.

There is currently a shop selling ALL THEIR STOCK at 40% OFF as they are moving.
He would rather sell all the stock than move it all to the new location.

[Damage]

There is currently a shop selling ALL THEIR STOCK at 40% OFF as they are moving.
He would rather sell all the stock than move it all to the new location.

Do tell!! I feel a shopping spree coming on!

[Garry]

this loyalty thing is crap, case in point, I was pre-order #1 (via net pre-order system) for a red dust with a dealer in Newcastle that I have spent quite a few dollars with, almost all my collection to be exact, when it came to the crunch, because I had "become a net orderer" I was pushed aside, I chose to use their net system for convienience, saved me driving in, and I was happy paying for postage, after a fe phone calls and emails I find out the walk ins got priority, turns out the shop ran two pre-order systems, and the net system comes second, so now I'm up that well know creek, as I moved to a small town and now have to do all my ordering via the net, how do you think I feel when the popular models are over booked...

Back boy! BACK!!,

On a serious note, I do sincerly sympathise with you.
The major problem with the 'Red Dust" car was the big cut CC imposed on the supply of the retailers original order.
My order was cut by 2/3 (66%), however, I did manage to get 2 more for my customers, online from T8 direct. T8 also had the 2008 B/H Winner, and yes, my supply got cut on that one too......
For the future, join up at,TeamVodafone ~ www.teamvodafone.com

PM me what 1:64 road cars your missing.

[Garry]

Garry, shops can put ANY PRICE they want on their model cars as we can see.

Correct, shops CAN put any price the want.... That is why it is referred to as, SRP (Suggested Retail Price)


If they sell for that great but if not then they need to do something if they want to sell them. Discounting them is the only way.

Discounting IS NOT the only was to reduce stock. Donating items to a registered charity can be written off on Tax......

This thread was meant for the older released model cars and bikes that have been sitting there for years at a price that will never sell.


Sorry Maximus, but that is not reflected in the title of the thread.

"How do model shops sell items......."

Perhaps you should start the thread again?????

"Why don't retailers discount their old stock........"

As it happens, I DO. That is "How my model shop sell items......"

There is currently a shop selling ALL THEIR STOCK at 40% OFF as they are moving.
He would rather sell all the stock than move it all to the new location.

I relocated 2 1/2 years ago and did the same. Why waste time and money transporting it.

[wazza]

Back boy! BACK!!,
For the future, join up at,TeamVodafone ~ www.teamvodafone.com (http://www.teamvodafone.com)

that's how I got my my RD in the end, so you'll excuse me if I now have multiple pre-orders for models that "I" really want, though now T8 (and Lowndsey poor fella) has gone holden it's a mute point...

[Garry]

that's how I got my my RD in the end, so you'll excuse me if I now have multiple pre-orders for models that "I" really want, though now T8 (and Lowndsey poor fella) has gone holden it's a mute point...

That's good to hear. At least you didn't get ripped.

If you don't mind, I'll mute on the Ford v Holden thing too.....

[Maximus]

Sorry Maximus, but that is not reflected in the title of the thread.

"How do model shops sell items......."

Perhaps you should start the thread again?????

"Why don't retailers discount their old stock........"

As it happens, I DO. That is "How my model shop sell items......"


Not in the title no but I do say in the first post...
"Why would anyone buy from a shop these days unless its a preorder as its practically always more expensive."

The thread went a little off from what I had in my head when I first posted but if I were to redo the thread over again then yeah I would title it "Why don't retailers discount their old stock........"

Any which way I am only buying the odd car and bike now rather than trying to get a whole collection like I used to.

Garry I just checked out the Triking Website (thats where your from yeah???) and if other model shops took the same approach on discounting like you guys have then they would sell the items too.

[Garry]

Not in the title no but I do say in the first post...
"Why would anyone buy from a shop these days unless its a preorder as its practically always more expensive."

The thread went a little off from what I had in my head when I first posted but if I were to redo the thread over again then yeah I would title it "Why don't retailers discount their old stock........"

Any which way I am only buying the odd car and bike now rather than trying to get a whole collection like I used to.

Garry I just checked out the Triking Website (thats where your from yeah???) and if other model shops took the same approach on discounting like you guys have then they would sell the items too.

Unfortunately, my website has not been updated in a long while, it's getting too much to run given that I am the sole operator of the shop.

If ever your looking for something, please PM me.

I'm shutting shop now, 7 days a week is driving me crazy.

Regards, Garry

[Maximus]

Yeah I will do.

[supa-roo]

Garry
If I'm allowed to ask, Which shop is your shop ?
Probably a PM so it don't look like advertising :p

[Maximus]

It is Triking. Its not advertising I dont think.

Most of us on here all know by now who are the model shop owners on here.
Dont we?

[supa-roo]

It is Triking. Its not advertising I dont think.

Most of us on here all know by now who are the model shop owners on here.
Dont we?

I've got no idea who the shop guys are or which shop they have :confused:

[david5]

Most of us on here all know by now who are the model shop owners on here.
Dont we?

There the ones with the nervous tick & cold sweats;)

[supa-roo]

There the ones with the nervous tick & cold sweats;)

would that be from carrying around all that cash that going off some of the posts here they make :p :p

[Damage]

would that be from carrying around all that cash that going off some of the posts here they make :p :p

Maybe its from the worry of the taxman getting wind of the clandestine eBay transactions from all the Cobras, 60th's and RD's they've sold for double RRP :p Jokes of course.

[Oh Five]

disregard,,,,

[Footy]

Maybe its from the worry of the taxman getting wind of the clandestine eBay transactions from all the Cobras, 60th's and RD's they've sold for double RRP Jokes of course.No Joke:DThe Taxman cometh.

[Leigh]

Hmmm, interesting posts by the retailers...

So when I got shafted by my retailer several years ago (and I was the second highest paying customer of that particular shop), and went and shopped around for a new "regular shop", I now know why Mark didn't get my business and why I have never recommended him to anybody ever since!

As does another shop who advertised "discounts" etc via email/phone, then when you turn up to pick up the item they try to charge full price (I know the story going around the secret handshake club on that one...)

Loyalty does go both ways, and when I ring as a nobody and get shafted, they can expect to be shafted back...assuming I am a scalper is a simple display of arrogance!

Although the difference is I know when I get shafted, most of the shops that have shafted me don't know the number of people I have turned away from them!

[Damage]

Word-of-mouth is arguably the most powerful marketing tool / advertising vehicle, what do you reckon Leigh?

[AmonFan]

Im just curious ;) however many models have been released in the past week or so... Did anyone who missed out on a Winterbottom Bahrain model get helped out on the other models... ie Green XY, Yellow HX, Skaife Sklyine, 2008 1:43 Champ set etc etc.... Or did they only require the Bahrain Cobra? its just im getting calls about how people buy lots of models and missed out on the Bahrain car... I would have thought if they buy so many models the shop should have helped them out with a Bahrain car if they are buying the HX etc.....

[Damage]

Amon, I wouldnt know a frosty Cobra if it fell out of the sky and hit me on the head but in the broad sense you should know the answer to your own question, in that if a model is popular people will want it that much more. Not everyoone who rings you is a scalper. Some? Probably, but not all. Your beliefs are your own but yeah, if 9 times out of 10 you see the person ringing you as a scalper or an enemy I cant see much good coming from it. These customers might tell a few porkies to increase the chances of getting what they want but it doesnt mean they are trying to make money on eBay every time they ring for a scarce / desirable item.

Case in point: The Skaife 60th. I hadnt preordered it and didnt even know it was due. BUT, I loved the livery and the look of it so I rang heaps of places until I got what I wanted, in fact I got two as I display one and store one of every 1:18 I have. Simple. I still have them and I havent sold any to make $100.

[AmonFan]

I don't treat them as a scalper, im not fussed what they are ;) I was more curious to see if people who were let down picked up other models up at the time .....

[smokey_dj]

might have a point to start a reverse phone servey laz where the clients to be questioned call you instead of the other way round id be interested to hear the results to your question if say you asked the next 50 callers for the bahrain car to let you know if they did pick up other cars at the time or did have other cars on order or a regulars of the shop who couldnt supply (without naming them of course)

[AmonFan]

I would rather them name a store though ;) I have asked a few people to name a store and they would'nt. I was told not too worry about it.....

[Footy]

Im a collector whom is loyal to his retailer ,I also visit other shops , over the years the hobby has changed,but one thing that keeps ringing true is that every retailer I talk too knows their regulars(collectors) whether model cars or dolls,they also Know who is out for a buck,they also know which collectors need the bucks to keep collecting,sooo anyone interested in a efijy at not at RRP?:p

[Garry]

I would rather them name a store though ;) I have asked a few people to name a store and they would'nt. I was told not too worry about it.....

Gosh, I must be getting the same collectors calling me ? I get the same reply to the exact same question, funny that.......

[Damage]

Yeah, if a retailer asks me who stitched me up I tell em it was Garry :p

On a serious note, my last purchase was through Biante, the couple before that GW Booragoon and Cannington, before that Freo Model Cars and before that Stanbridges. I am a retailer slut, its whoever pleases me at the time :D Ive seen it said loyalty is a two way street, for me I guess its a no way street but then, I wont be howling if I miss out on something, that would be dumb...

[brchi17]

Hmmm, interesting posts by the retailers...

So when I got shafted by my retailer several years ago (and I was the second highest paying customer of that particular shop), and went and shopped around for a new "regular shop", I now know why Mark didn't get my business and why I have never recommended him to anybody ever since!

As does another shop who advertised "discounts" etc via email/phone, then when you turn up to pick up the item they try to charge full price (I know the story going around the secret handshake club on that one...)

Loyalty does go both ways, and when I ring as a nobody and get shafted, they can expect to be shafted back...assuming I am a scalper is a simple display of arrogance!

Although the difference is I know when I get shafted, most of the shops that have shafted me don't know the number of people I have turned away from them!

You raise some good points in here Leigh (can't believe I'm agreeing with forum Leigh :p!!!)....I too know the pain of being 'shafted' which has now meant that I've become more of a casual collector than someones regular. I would agree that I find it hard to keep the passion of spending my $$$ on items when I have to make more than two phone calls to find something which has been sold out on pre-order. Sorry but spending time on the phone searching doesn't do it for me, neither does driving around several stores looking in the off chance of finding it.

Take in part my most recent non-purchase as a typical example. Not so long ago, the day I received my CC newsletter it featured a particular model that attracted my interest, so I rang two stores trying to order one. Sadly both had already sold out, to pre-orders only and I was told that neither were getting extra stock. Long story short, I'll now pass on this model.

To be blunt I don't have a problem with this as I know times are tough and stores have to survive, however I do wonder if a 'seasoned' collector like myself is struggling to find models, then how will 'new' blood enter and remain with the market/hobby if they have similar experiences....???

[Garry]

Yeah, if a retailer asks me who stitched me up I tell em it was Garry :p

On a serious note, my last purchase was through Biante, the couple before that GW Booragoon and Cannington, before that Freo Model Cars and before that Stanbridges. I am a retailer slut, its whoever pleases me at the time :D Ive seen it said loyalty is a two way street, for me I guess its a no way street but then, I wont be howling if I miss out on something, that would be dumb...

Yep, you spelt it right, two R's. LOL

You are correct, if you don't pre-order you could miss a model.
On the otherhand, if you are buying the odd model, I am sure the shops you frequent would / should recognise you as a regular.

[AmonFan]

You raise some good points in here Leigh (can't believe I'm agreeing with forum Leigh :p!!!)....I too know the pain of being 'shafted' which has now meant that I've become more of a casual collector than someones regular. I would agree that I find it hard to keep the passion of spending my $$$ on items when I have to make more than two phone calls to find something which has been sold out on pre-order. Sorry but spending time on the phone searching doesn't do it for me, neither does driving around several stores looking in the off chance of finding it.

Take in part my most recent non-purchase as a typical example. Not so long ago, the day I received my CC newsletter it featured a particular model that attracted my interest, so I rang two stores trying to order one. Sadly both had already sold out, to pre-orders only and I was told that neither were getting extra stock. Long story short, I'll now pass on this model.

To be blunt I don't have a problem with this as I know times are tough and stores have to survive, however I do wonder if a 'seasoned' collector like myself is struggling to find models, then how will 'new' blood enter and remain with the market/hobby if they have similar experiences....???

I can only speak for myself... I did'nt order many XY's as with CC's recent price hike i was reluctant to order many when i could have been faced with a above srp of $215. We have seen many people unpreparred to pay that sort of money and fair enough.... Hence i ordered 6 and by the time Brad had asked me i had already sold out as had CC :(..

[brchi17]

I can only speak for myself... I did'nt order many XY's as with CC's recent price hike i was reluctant to order many when i could have been faced with a above srp of $215. We have seen many people unpreparred to pay that sort of money and fair enough.... Hence i ordered 6 and by the time Brad had asked me i had already sold out as had CC :(..

Laz, I fear your post is written as a means for the need to justify yourself....as I said in my post, I understand, hence why I didn't name anyone because I'm not on a witch hunt nor pushing an agenda. I just wrote the facts, which I also said I understand. My post was never intended to be a slur on you or another retailer for that fact.

Mealy it was written as an observation with my 1% of opinion for new collectors entering the market.

[AmonFan]

Laz, I fear your post is written as a means for the need to justify yourself....as I said in my post, I understand, hence why I didn't name anyone because I'm not on a witch hunt nor pushing an agenda. I just wrote the facts, which I also said I understand. My post was never intended to be a slur on you or another retailer for that fact.

Mealy it was written as an observation with my 1% of opinion for new collectors entering the market.

I don't see the problem in naming people though ;) Ironically though i did intially go for 8, crossed it down to 6...... Until Brad asked me i was looking good, and to date no one has asked me about a Monza Green XY since....

[Damage]

Laz, I fear your post is written as a means for the need to justify yourself....as I said in my post, I understand, hence why I didn't name anyone because I'm not on a witch hunt nor pushing an agenda. I just wrote the facts, which I also said I understand. My post was never intended to be a slur on you or another retailer for that fact.

Mealy it was written as an observation with my 1% of opinion for new collectors entering the market.

I can see that viewpoint, it seems there are a few axes to grind on this topic and not just by the retailers. Trying to see it from the other side of the counter (coin) is often difficult.

I am sure most model shops staff / owners recognize me lol, I'm the one with the chainsaw :D

[Garry]

I don't see the problem in naming people though ;) Ironically though i did intially go for 8, crossed it down to 6...... Until Brad asked me i was looking good, and to date no one has asked me about a Monza Green XY since....

In general, the retailer takes pre-orders in good faith, only to have some of their wholesale orders cut. They can't predict what their supply numbers will end up at, and ordering more than required IS NOT an option. My order for the Monza Green XY was delivered in full; my order for the 'Bahrain' model was reduced by 50%.

The collector has a right to get angry when they miss out on a model that was on order, however, the retailer seems to be getting all the blame. The wholesaler / manufacturer HAS to wear a very large proportion of that blame, production numbers are being set prior to retailers having placed their orders. This ensures a complete 'Sell Out' of the wholesaler / manufacturer’s latest releases.

It is also unfortunate that new collectors are left to find the scraps, or buy in the secondary market place.

[HRT1]

all my orders are over the iternet and i havent been let down once yet....(fingers crossed) live in sydney bu my regular shop is in QLD. have gotten HRT 60 and winterbottom cobra from them no problems, had to source a red dust elsewhere due to ordering very late....
there are no model stores too close to my place so i've had to look far and wide to source and since my original orders when i first started colleting were honoured and i was well looked after i've stuck with them. all too easy.
there are the minority of stores which sometimes do the wrong thing but the majority i imagine are fine and play by the rules. they are just running a busines same as everyone else would....

[Leigh]

In general, the retailer takes pre-orders in good faith, only to have some of their wholesale orders cut. They can't predict what their supply numbers will end up at, and ordering more than required IS NOT an option. My order for the Monza Green XY was delivered in full; my order for the 'Bahrain' model was reduced by 50%.

The collector has a right to get angry when they miss out on a model that was on order, however, the retailer seems to be getting all the blame. The wholesaler / manufacturer HAS to wear a very large proportion of that blame, production numbers are being set prior to retailers having placed their orders. This ensures a complete 'Sell Out' of the wholesaler / manufacturer’s latest releases.

It is also unfortunate that new collectors are left to find the scraps, or buy in the secondary market place.

The sad point is that one MUST pre-order to get a model because both wholesalers AND RETAILERS insist on undersupplying so that they sell out...

You insist on blaming the wholesalers and customers Garry, but YOU are a critical part in this, and the collective known as retailers are just as much to blame...

Wholesalers are making less to ensure sell-out.

Retailers are ordering only enough to cover pre-orders (both you and Laz have said this) to ensure sell out.

Customers are not honouring orders, or not ordering full stop, or complaining about the "real" cost of supplying models (ala this thread)!

Everybody is shafting everybody here, but the ones with the most influence are the retailers...they are the ones with a personal interest manning the frontline!

[AmonFan]

I have'nt shafted anyone ;) Although as most people unlike me can only see the world one way i guess it would appear at times i do ;)

[supa-roo]

Everybody is shafting everybody here, but the ones with the most influence are the retailers...they are the ones with a personal interest manning the frontline!

I don't feel I'm being shafted by the shop I buy off, they haven't let me down yet, touch wood :p, but I do pre-order all the new release cars I purchase through him knowing some will rise in value but most won't, I could easily buy from online auctions and shops for less than RRP but as has been said it is a 2 way street and at the end of the day they are retailers in a business and it's all about customer service.
They have a lot of older stock on the shelves due to people phoning and electronically preording cars only to say "oh sorry I've purchased elsewhere cheaper"
An old sales & marketing survey says if you get good service you'll tell at least 3 people, if you get bad service you'll tell at least 20 people and with these online forums it's an even greater audience.
I do feel for all shops in this day and age but if you don't like the person behind the counter you'll go elsewhere.

6482

[DJRTOM18]

If you think shops rip you off, Have a look at this
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/classic-carlectables-2001-DJR-BATHURST-AU-FALCONS_W0QQitemZ140341634821QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU _Toys_Hobbies_Diecast_Vehicles?hash=item20ad036705&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Sorry about lenght of link, not sure how to shorten it!!

[robert1973]

This is perhaps the most interesting thread I have read on here for a long time. (No offense is intended to anyone or other threads if they do not like that comment)

To me it is giving the perspective from both sides, whether you agree or disagree.

I no longer have a particular retailer that I always use and do shop around. Why? Because a couple of the more well known shops in my area, do have somewhat inflated prices on both new and older stock. That is their choice but unfortunately they will not get my business. Overall I have about 5 online shops that I regularly get stuff from as I have found their prices reasonable and their service excellent and use only the one particular shop for pre-orders as they have always supplied the order. If I miss out on a pre-order, then I shop around to see if I can find the car at a reasonable price.

The thing I have worked out over the years with this hobby, is that for every car you buy where you think you may have paid too much, you will always pick up another that you want at a cheaper than expected or cheaper than SRP at some stage. It all evens out in the end.

Regards
Robert

[Garry]

The sad point is that one MUST pre-order to get a model because both wholesalers AND RETAILERS insist on undersupplying so that they sell out..
You insist on blaming the wholesalers and customers Garry, but YOU are a critical part in this, and the collective known as retailers are just as much to blame...


You are partly correct. Yes, selling ALL your stock leaves no stock on the shelf. That in turn means invoices get paid. You can't pay the bills with stock.

FACT: My orders for the 2008 Bathurst Winner, 'Red Dust' and 'Bahrain', were all cut by the wholesaler. My original orders were to cover my per-orders and put a few on the shelf. It WAS the wholesaler that made the final decision as to how many of my order I received.

Wholesalers are making less to ensure sell-out.

At present that does seem to be case, however, if you look at CC's 1985 Bathurst Winner, the original number was set at 3500 pieces, and it has now been increased to 4500 pieces.



Retailers are ordering only enough to cover pre-orders (both you and Laz have said this) to ensure sell out.

FACT: As I have stated above, I personally place orders which are sufficient to cover pre-orders and have a few extra for the shelf. I can't speak for Laz, but as a retailer, I am sure he would be doing the same.

To over-order and have stock sitting on the shelf is inviting "Bankruptcy".
How many retailers have closed in the last 6 months???

Customers are not honouring orders, or not ordering full stop, or complaining about the "real" cost of supplying models (ala this thread)!

Everybody is shafting everybody here, but the ones with the most influence are the retailers...they are the ones with a personal interest manning the frontline!

FACT: Retailers have no say on what the production run will be on a model, so how can you justify your statement, "the ones with the most influence are the retailers". ???

FACT: Most retailers have a bloody good idea what models will be popular and what are not, placing their orders accordingly....
If the wholesalers do not / cannot supply the orders in full, it is both the retailers and the collectors that lose out.

FACT:Retailers are given a deadline to return their orders; therefore, the wholesaler generally knows months in advance how many are required to fill ALL the orders. As I have said before, "the wholesaler has to wear most of the blame for shortfall in the total number of models that are required by the retailers".

What is the motive for the wholesalers reducing production numbers?
To maintain collectability and to limit the number of models being flooded onto eBay at reduced prices.
And of course, to ensure that there is not stock left in the warehouse.

As a footnote: If you feel you can do better, please concider buying a model shop.

[Hey Charger]

You know what gets me is the flip side, when a model is produced in large numbers for x, y, z reasons and then it sits on shelves and warehouses. It eventually gets discounted savagely or is packaged with other "freebie" models....we complain to the manufacturer because it should have been limited and the lost value due to the subsequent discounting.

Low and behold, the next release is a low production runt and we miss out. Complain again to the manufacturer about too few being produced, of "ebay flippers" and "scalpers" etc etc but hang on a sec, how many of you did want that model to begin with? Are you just jumping the band wagon to make a quick buck? Buying for the sake of buying because it’ll be desirable?...If you’re genuine, why didn't you pre-order? What no cash? Why not discuss with your retailer to come to some arrangement. Then at least it goes some way in establishing a reasonable run.

Under the high run scenario, manufacturers deserve to get an earbashing from retailers and consumers, but unfortunately the reality is they are a business not a service and have IRR to meet. Yet I find it amazing that they should get an earful when they produce low runs and people go and whinge about etc. Occasional low runs is good for the hobby and sell outs are good, but consistently producing low runs only profits the scalpers unless the manufacturer announces a second run of the model maybe different packaging to differentiate it from the first release and hence ease the "scalping".

I think the moral of the story is support your retailer, pre order what you want not what you think or is or will be "HOT" at the moment.

Back to the theme of this thread, at the end its a hobby, we all like a bargain when we get one and at the end of the day if you really really want it, then sometimes you have to pay for it or you can wait for the opportunity to see it again and buy it at "your" right price, its your money. So long as you keep in mind that along the way, with the swings and round-abouts that’s associated with collecting, you should be ahead in the long term.


Cheers

[Garry]

If you think shops rip you off, Have a look at this
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/classic-carlectables-2001-DJR-BATHURST-AU-FALCONS_W0QQitemZ140341634821QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU _Toys_Hobbies_Diecast_Vehicles?hash=item20ad036705&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Sorry about lenght of link, not sure how to shorten it!!

Are they an authorised retail stockist, an eBay shop or a private seller????

There is a VERY big difference.......

[DJRTOM18]

Are they an authorised retail stockist, an eBay shop or a private seller????

There is a VERY big difference.......
my point is that even ebay sellers rip you off from time to time and ask rediculous prices aswell.

[Leigh]

Placing the word FACT in front of a statement does not make it so, just as the words "without prejudice" do not necesarrily protect you from the law...these are your opinions, just as what I type are my opinions.

As retailers, you are the primary contact with the consumer. You speak to the consumer, you hear complaints from the consumer, you hear praise from the consumer. You speak to just about every consumer whether it be in person, by phone or via the internet...the wholesaler might speak to a very small percentage...it is the retailer who has the collective picture of the hobby, not the consumer nor the wholesaler. It is the retailer who SHOULD be relaying this collective message to the wholesaler, either individually or as a collective of retailers...

You have more influence than you realise Garry, but you are also the most exposed (in terms of going bankrupt). While I agree with your statement regarding stock on shelves not paying bills, it is turnover that pays the bills...stock on shelves is what gets customers in, without stock on shelves you don't get customers and you don't get turnover...that is from the first lesson of Business Management 101...

[AmonFan]

my point is that even ebay sellers rip you off from time to time and ask rediculous prices aswell.

What is regarded as a rip off though.... Different locations mean different type of sales... ie Garry may sell truck loads of Red LJ's where as i may sell heaps of Sebring Orange HT's... I have red LJ's sitting on the shelf he may have HT's on the shelf.... To move some and pay for Frosty Cobra's he reduces the HT's but i have mine at original price... Am i a rip off?

[Garry]

Placing the word FACT in front of a statement does not make it so, just as the words "without prejudice" do not necesarrily protect you from the law...these are your opinions, just as what I type are my opinions.

As retailers, you are the primary contact with the consumer. You speak to the consumer, you hear complaints from the consumer, you hear praise from the consumer. You speak to just about every consumer whether it be in person, by phone or via the internet...the wholesaler might speak to a very small percentage...it is the retailer who has the collective picture of the hobby, not the consumer nor the wholesaler. It is the retailer who SHOULD be relaying this collective message to the wholesaler, either individually or as a collective of retailers...

You have more influence than you realise Garry, but you are also the most exposed (in terms of going bankrupt). While I agree with your statement regarding stock on shelves not paying bills, it is turnover that pays the bills...stock on shelves is what gets customers in, without stock on shelves you don't get customers and you don't get turnover...that is from the first lesson of Business Management 101...

What has been marked as FACT in my post, is FACT, not my opinions. If you feel that you can dispel those FACTs, please post credible proof and on what basis.

As retailers we ARE the front line and know that only too well. We are constantly being told from people like yourself what we should and should not do. That is FACT.

Why should I or any other retailer order more than required to cover pre-orders and a few for the shelf...
I agree that stock on the shelf gets customers in, if there are customers to buy the shelf stock. You use the word 'turnover', that equates to sales. Stock sitting on shelves collecting dust is NOT 'turnover. Discounting old stock below cost is NOT profit either.

You keep quoting "the first lesson of Business Management 101" and????
Obviously, you know more about business than ALL the stockists around Australia. It would be a good time for you to break into the market place with your OWN retail shop and stop trying to dictate how others should run theirs.

[malscar]

At present that does seem to be case, however, if you look at CC's 1985 Bathurst Winner, the original number was set at 3500 pieces, and it has now been increased to 4500 It will be interesting to see how much the retailers are still cut.Am i a rip off?Yes. (Sorry I could not resist. And yes I know you are not.)

[AmonFan]

Sorry can't resist....Garry how come you got to order the 1985 Bathurst Winner and i did'nt...Perhaps with people thinking it was a winner was the reason of the increase :p I did'nt order many as people were confused about the car until i set the record straight hence much lower interest.....

[VE II]

I think a lot of retailers have learnt from the Red Dust shortages... For now on it seems that retailers will not allow people to preorder until they know how many from CC they are getting. This seems like a smart move to protect the customers so that they know that there preorder is guaranteed. However it may result in the retailer under-ordering and then customers having to go else where.

[Garry]

Sorry can't resist....Garry how come you got to order the 1985 Bathurst Winner and i did'nt...Perhaps with people thinking it was a winner was the reason of the increase :p I did'nt order many as people were confused about the car until i set the record straight hence much lower interest.....

Opps, slip of the keyboard.

No, it is NOT a winner. Got mixed up wth the 1983 upcoming release.

LOL

[Leigh]

What has been marked as FACT in my post, is FACT, not my opinions. If you feel that you can dispel those FACTs, please post credible proof and on what basis.

As retailers we ARE the front line and know that only too well. We are constantly being told from people like yourself what we should and should not do. That is FACT.

Why should I or any other retailer order more than required to cover pre-orders and a few for the shelf...
I agree that stock on the shelf gets customers in, if there are customers to buy the shelf stock. You use the word 'turnover', that equates to sales. Stock sitting on shelves collecting dust is NOT 'turnover. Discounting old stock below cost is NOT profit either.

You keep quoting "the first lesson of Business Management 101" and????
Obviously, you know more about business than ALL the stockists around Australia. It would be a good time for you to break into the market place with your OWN retail shop and stop trying to dictate how others should run theirs.

The old "I say its fact therefore it is", followed up by the "I do it therefore I am the ultimate knowledge source"...maybe convincing to yourself Garry but not to me...

Apparently the decades of experience of retailers across the world goes nowhere with you.

I am NOT dictating to anybody, I am providing an alternative to the stagnation and winding back of the industry as I see it from my perspective...and evidenced by your posts. It is your decision to ignore my words or otherwise...apparently you are interested enough to continue reading and responding as to how "absurd" I am being...

Somehow your last paragraph does not sit well. If you are ALL so successful, why are there so many model shops closing down?

In response to your question, with the current state of the model car industry, anybody would be absolutely mad to enter...no support from the wholesalers (undersupplying orders), no voice of the retailers to the wholesalers, complaining customers and a situation where if you stock items, you go bankrupt!

Not a favourable business proposition in anybodies language!

[AmonFan]

Is their an under supply though? I think they have the numbers pretty close to right....

[HRT1]

retailers shouldnt get the blame for not getting enough models to make everyone happy....i know if i was in the business running a model shop i'd probably order enough to cover pre-orders and maybe a couple for shelf but no more than that. i've seen way too many newish models sell for prices like $75-$120..... how is that good for the poor retailer? on the flip side its excellent for the collector. these guys have to run a business and run their lives from how well their business runs pretty much. all business owners look after themselves first and foremost then worry about others.... correct?

[jager]

If retailers insist on only ordering enough models to cover pre-orders, they are ultimately signing there own death warrant. Ultimately they won't provide any value/service that the manufacturers couldn't replace with a simple, internet based online ordering system.

In fact I can't help but think that the whole issue of over/under production would be avoided if we collectors could just order online with the Manufactuers directly and they produce to the number of orders.

I can't work out for the life of me why the Biante website doesn't have a pre-order function in the same way that a shop does ? ? ?

[Garry]

The old "I say its fact therefore it is", followed up by the "I do it therefore I am the ultimate knowledge source"...maybe convincing to yourself Garry but not to me...

Leigh, I have asked you to disprove my posted 'FACT's.
I'll ask you again, Please post proof, to discredit my posts. If you cannot, an apology would be much appreciated.

Apparently the decades of experience of retailers across the world goes nowhere with you.

Bigger businesses than me are posting huge losses, some going bankrupt; perhaps they could do with your friendly advice.

I am NOT dictating to anybody, I am providing an alternative to the stagnation and winding back of the industry as I see it from my perspective...and evidenced by your posts. It is your decision to ignore my words or otherwise...apparently you are interested enough to continue reading and responding as to how "absurd" I am being...

Perhaps I misread your post #172 "It is the retailer who SHOULD be relaying this collective message to the wholesaler" I thought upper case print was deemed shouting, in this instant, that sure reads like dictating.


Somehow your last paragraph does not sit well. If you are ALL so successful, why are there so many model shops closing down?

Perhaps they ordered too much stock and it stayed on the shelf collecting dust....


In response to your question, with the current state of the model car industry, anybody would be absolutely mad to enter...no support from the wholesalers (undersupplying orders), no voice of the retailers to the wholesalers, complaining customers and a situation where if you stock items, you go bankrupt!
Not a favorable business proposition in anybodies language!

Then why on earth was it suggested that retailers buy more stock than required to meet antisipated demand ?

To date, I have offered genuine explanations to several issues and concerns that have been raised by members posting to this thread. It is an interesting thread and I have taken satisfaction, in both reading and posting to it.

Happy collecting, Garry

[david5]

Go Garry, Go Garry....you'll never wear him down.......at least Leighs not picking on anyone else while he's "debating" with you ;)

[Garry]

If retailers insist on only ordering enough models to cover pre-orders, they are ultimately signing there own death warrant. Ultimately they won't provide any value/service that the manufacturers couldn't replace with a simple, internet based online ordering system.

Ian, may I suggest that you re-read the thread again. Orders ARE being placed, its the wholesaler that is restricting supply of selective models by limiting production.

In fact I can't help but think that the whole issue of over/under production would be avoided if we collectors could just order online with the Manufactuers directly and they produce to the number of orders.

Ok, the first thing that comes to mind is 'Lincencing Agreements, then their is the issue of minimum orders from overseas manufacturers. Not to mention QC (or the lack of it) packing posting replacing damaged items, there are too many negatives. It sounds like a great idea, but it will never happen.

I can't work out for the life of me why the Biante website doesn't have a pre-order function in the same way that a shop does ? ? ?

CC don't even have a retail website, their core business is wholesale.

[Garry]

Go Garry, Go Garry....you'll never wear him down.......at least Leighs not picking on anyone else while he's "debating" with you ;)

Gosh, Leigh wouldn't do that would he ?????
At least it is a clash of opinions, not a clash of swords. LOL

[SDK]

Ok, the first thing that comes to mind is 'Lincencing Agreements,

Garry, I'm not getting involved in your other discussion, yet perhaps this is one for another or older thread. Can you please explain how the licensing agreements work? Who do you actually need to get permission from (or pay) to make a model? This would be for all parties involved ie, vehicle manufacturer, drivers, current owners, past sponsors, designers etc. Many thanks.

[Damage]

Here is a broad observation / comment:

Whilst you think you know everything about ANY given subject, you are denying yourself the ability to learn.

[AmonFan]

Here is a broad observation / comment:

Whilst you think you know everything about ANY given subject, you are denying yourself the ability to learn.

Great minds think alike ;) hence why i only talk about Diecast and Motor Racing (Mainly Aussie) as unlike most.... I have NFI about any other subjects.....

[Damage]

But you dont think you know EVERYTHING about diecasts and motor racing do you Laz?

And Garry, shouldnt the onus be on you to substantiate these "facts" rather than Leigh having to disprove them? I'm not taking sides, it just seems a bit backwards but jolly good seeing other parties clashing opinions rather than me. Damn fine reading :D

[AmonFan]

But you dont think you know EVERYTHING about diecasts and motor racing do you Laz?

Not at all mate, i don't know much at all..... Im happy to admit that ;)

Like the other day i learnt that the learnt that John Mole was a suspension guru for Ford hence why he was probably so quick in his Triumph Herald ;)

[Garry]

Garry, I'm not getting involved in your other discussion, yet perhaps this is one for another or older thread. Can you please explain how the licensing agreements work? Who do you actually need to get permission from (or pay) to make a model? This would be for all parties involved ie, vehicle manufacturer, drivers, current owners, past sponsors, designers etc. Many thanks.

As a basic rule of thumb, if you want to use someone else's design, you need to get approval design's owner. Without approval it could open the possiblity to legal action for infringing 'Copyright'.

Perhaps 'Damage' would like have some imput to assist to clarify your question in a little more detail.....

[AmonFan]

I also learnt that going by my last post that my repeating of myself and speach problem is also very obvious in the way i post :p ;)...

[Damage]

Perhaps 'Damage' would like have some imput to assist to clarify your question in a little more detail..

Why? What would I know about Intellectual Property Rights or Copyright?

If youre referring to a few decal sheets with various trademarks I've made I reckon the clerks at the Federaql Court would do some hoop-practice with the hearing application into the wastepaper bin or at the very least it would give them a good laugh. A mass produced item by a company on the other hand is very different.

[Garry]

And Garry, shouldnt the onus be on you to substantiate these "facts" rather than Leigh having to disprove them? I'm not taking sides, it just seems a bit backwards but jolly good seeing other parties clashing opinions rather than me. Damn fine reading :D

I'm sure Leigh can fight his own battles. LOL

You either accept or ignore the FACT's as written by myself. If you want to argue them, then disprove them based on substantiated information. The FACT's have been written based on my personal experiences as a retailer. If Leigh or anyone else wishes to disprove them, go for it.

A couple of forum members don't want to read what is actually being written as information. It is easy being an armchair critic. Information in any form is imformation all the same. Several collectors have raised issues, and I have stood up to respond with honest answers. If the answers are not to your liking, calling a poster a liar is an easy way out.

Rather than drag this thread down, please PM if you want some straight answers to genuine questions.

[Garry]

Why? What would I know about Intellectual Property Rights or Copyright?

If youre referring to a few decal sheets with various trademarks I've made I reckon the clerks at the Federaql Court would do some hoop-practice with the hearing application into the wastepaper bin or at the very least it would give them a good laugh. A mass produced item by a company on the other hand is very different.

There was no hidden agenda. I merely asked if you could throw some light on the question raised.....
I thought you might have had a little insight into copyright.

You normally have a lot to say....ROFL

[Road Runner 72]

Leigh sure does fight his own battles well, just hard to get people to agree with him at times LOL (Sorry Leigh)

[Damage]

There was no hidden agenda. I merely asked if you could throw some light on the question raised.....
I thought you might have had a little insight into copyright.

You normally have a lot to say....ROFL

Yes I do don't I, but not nearly as much as youve had to say lately. Obviously this topic, and how the mechanics behind the scenes is percieved, is very important to you and fair enough.

As for hidden agendas or lack thereof, I cant help but read into your above remark a bit to attempt to see what lies behind those veils. With regard to licensing agreement and copyrights you said:

Perhaps 'Damage' would like have some imput to assist to clarify your question in a little more detail.....

So without the cloak and dagger and dismissive retort, do I have to ask again why I would know?

EDIT: For the record, youre spot on, Leigh can fight his own battles and does so very well, he certainly doesnt need my help. As I said I wasnt taking sides, it was just to me the onus of proof or substantiation was a bit backward.

[Road Runner 72]

Dion I read it as, you have a lot to say, which there is nothing wrong with having your say, as there a buch of people who make small runs of decals posters etc for other forum members.

Garry I enjoy reading your posts, but not some of the slight sligh remarks, I know it goes both ways mate, so can you both get back on track as we all love a good discussion, as seeing it from both sides you sure can see where the wires get crossed.

Mike

[Damage]

Fair enough Mike, I was just plucked at random as maybe knowing heaps about Intellectual Property Rights. I was obviously wrong in thinking Garry was fishing because he knows he will get a bite with me. Having said that, I'll leave it by saying I know as much about IP as a 10 minute read via Google can provide. Should I say lol or rofl now? ;)

[Road Runner 72]

Lmao to funny, but keep the questions coming, as I take there is no hard feelings, as I see as to gents having a debate while sharing some beers ;)

[Damage]

Absolutely. No hard feelings, I'm good at moving forward from 'hiccups' :D When I go and see Garry in his cave I'll give him a big hug. Hang on... Well, maybe shake his hand at least.

[Road Runner 72]

Absolutely. No hard feelings, I'm good at moving forward from 'hiccups' :D When I go and see Garry in his cave I'll give him a big hug. Hang on... Well, maybe shake his hand at least.

What and try and get a discount ;)

[Garry]

This thread began as; "How do retailers sell their items......"

Throughout the thread there seems to have been a bit of 'side swiping'. Even a moderator posted as to how he missed out on a model. A moderator is like a referee, they cannot do their job properly if they get involved, sorry.

Who else could answer this thread better that an actual retailer. There has been at least 2 retailers that have posted to this thread trying their bloody hardest to explain "How they sell their items...." This has been met with, for the want of a better word, resistance.

Biante doesn't post too often these days, so, do you REALLY want retailers to remain out of it as well?

At the end of the day, everyone should have come away with an insight into each side’s views, ideas, problems and issues. I do hope that this is the case with this tread.

May I suggest, and I'm guilty at times, that 'proof reading' your post, through the receivers eyes' prior to submiting, could avoid a lot of misinterpretations within the post.

This is my last post to THIS thread, unless of course, I am asked to reply to a question directed at me personally.

However, I do look forward to the next thread that takes my interest.....LOL

TTFN, Garry

PS.

My apologies to 'Wayno' and 'Richard' for my over-exuberance in posting to this tread.

[malscar]

Garry

It has been a very interesting read. Just because your passion shows through is no reason to appologise.

[AmonFan]

Garry

It has been a very interesting read. Just because your passion shows through is no reason to appologise.

I was thinking the same Mal.... I think Garry's shine's through... I consider myself lucky that despite what some may think, im a realtively low wage earner however i do get paid to talk/type about Motor Sport, i think thats pretty cool :D

[Road Runner 72]

Garry, (You can answer this one buddy)

A modderator is a member/collector who gives there time to help keep the forum clean, its not a paid job & its a open forum for disscusions like this, they just keep there eyes on things & if ever any member feels that one of there post is out of line, they can report the post like any other, Ive been a mod over the years on other forums & can honestly say its a thankless job at times, so there input like anyother is welcome in my eyes.

Yes a retailer is great to answer in the thread, but it's 2 of you trying to answer ever post, & I know its not easy & can be very frustrating, but ignore the junk & post what you feel is right, as there are a lot of people who don't post that would be liking this thread as its a better understanding, & I hope you can see its a better understanding from some of the collectors, but ever collector is different & I know you undersatnd that.

I for one thank you & Laz for an insite into the side us collectors can't see, I have seen things over the years from both sides, & for me I will shop at a retailer if they are polite & give me honest answers, if they dont have a car I am after or want to put my name down for, thats no problem, I will have to get in earlier next time & they say thats the best bet.
Some collectors are full of fairy dust, so I'll leave them be & make some good friends ships with honest & people who are in the hobby for what it is, a hobby to enjoy with the bonus of making some good friends along they way, be it collectors or retailers.

Bainte staff I feel give more input through emails if a question is rasied, as its a open forum what they type refelcts on the buisness, so I feel some things they will answer & some they might take the high road, again there choice & I thank them for the use of this free forum.

Garry we are all guilty of proof reading, things can be read two way, some see that some don't, as well as knowing some of the members & how they p[ost helps lol.

We are so glad this thread peaked your intrest, as it was great input from you, as we understand this is close to home for you.

Cheers

Mike

[ratster70]

Ummm what was the question mike????:p:p:D

[malscar]

i do get paid to talk/type about Motor Sport, i think thats pretty cool :D


Then you should be a millionaire:p

[AmonFan]

Then you should be a millionaire:p

LOL if i was i would'nt be here :p id be grabbing William Hall and we'd be planning our Bathurst assault :D

[david5]

LOL if i was i would'nt be here :p id be grabbing William Hall and we'd be planning our Bathurst assault :D

Grab him somewhere good;)

[AmonFan]

Grab him somewhere good;)

LOL oh dear, you need to be slapped with a Dinkum Forbes L34 at times :p

[XW #901 180mph]

Hmmm, interesting posts by the retailers...

So when I got shafted by my retailer several years ago (and I was the second highest paying customer of that particular shop), and went and shopped around for a new "regular shop", I now know why Mark didn't get my business and why I have never recommended him to anybody ever since!

As does another shop who advertised "discounts" etc via email/phone, then when you turn up to pick up the item they try to charge full price (I know the story going around the secret handshake club on that one...)

Loyalty does go both ways, and when I ring as a nobody and get shafted, they can expect to be shafted back...assuming I am a scalper is a simple display of arrogance!

Although the difference is I know when I get shafted, most of the shops that have shafted me don't know the number of people I have turned away from them!

Geez I haven’t been on here for a few days and I see that for the first time I need to defend my business reputation on here.

Leigh, I am not sure what your issue with me is but this is the second time in a short period of time that you have jumped down my throat for having an opinion, in fact reading your most recent posts it looks like you don’t like any retailer having an opinion.

It doesn’t seem that you turning away people from my shop (for whatever reason) has had any effect as I am as busy as ever.

I now need you to spill your gutz on what you reckon I shafted you on as that is what it seems you are accusing me of.

I run an honest business and don’t shaft people however there will always be people that in their mind think that they have been shafted.

The size of my customer base and the fact that my business name does not pop up in the forums for the wrong reasons is testament to that.

For the record my business name is Bridge Model Cars and my name is Mark Bryan.

I am not afraid to defend myself in a public forum so Leigh I stand here ready to defend myself from your accusations, so bring it on and please also post your surname so that I can check through my past black lists for a possible shafting from you.

One last comment that may have been misinterpreted by some from my first post is that I do not and I am sure most model shops do not turn away new customers but the fact is that when a model is allocated to us ie: 60th, Red Dust, Frosty Cobra etc etc, my policy is that they are only available to my regular customers as even then they pre-sell out.

Regards Mark.

[My Element]

Geez I haven’t been on here for a few days and I see that for the first time I need to defend my business reputation on here.

Leigh, I am not sure what your issue with me is but this is the second time in a short period of time that you have jumped down my throat for having an opinion, in fact reading your most recent posts it looks like you don’t like any retailer having an opinion.

It doesn’t seem that you turning away people from my shop (for whatever reason) has had any effect as I am as busy as ever.

I now need you to spill your gutz on what you reckon I shafted you on as that is what it seems you are accusing me of.

I run an honest business and don’t shaft people however there will always be people that in their mind think that they have been shafted.

The size of my customer base and the fact that my business name does not pop up in the forums for the wrong reasons is testament to that.

For the record my business name is Bridge Model Cars and my name is Mark Bryan.

I am not afraid to defend myself in a public forum so Leigh I stand here ready to defend myself from your accusations, so bring it on and please also post your surname so that I can check through my past black lists for a possible shafting from you.

One last comment that may have been misinterpreted by some from my first post is that I do not and I am sure most model shops do not turn away new customers but the fact is that when a model is allocated to us ie: 60th, Red Dust, Frosty Cobra etc etc, my policy is that they are only available to my regular customers as even then they pre-sell out.

Regards Mark.

Im not a regular, but you have always done the right thing by me. Just thought id put that out

[yap]

Im not a regular, but you have always done the right thing by me. Just thought id put that out

+1

Only bought a couple of cars from you, but the price and postage were spot on

[Leigh]

I'm sure Leigh can fight his own battles. LOL

You either accept or ignore the FACT's as written by myself. If you want to argue them, then disprove them based on substantiated information. The FACT's have been written based on my personal experiences as a retailer. If Leigh or anyone else wishes to disprove them, go for it.

A couple of forum members don't want to read what is actually being written as information. It is easy being an armchair critic. Information in any form is imformation all the same. Several collectors have raised issues, and I have stood up to respond with honest answers. If the answers are not to your liking, calling a poster a liar is an easy way out.

Rather than drag this thread down, please PM if you want some straight answers to genuine questions.

It is getting rather repetitive here Garrrry. Again I state, calling an usubstantiated claim a fact does not make it a fact. As I have written elsewhere, just because YOU experience something, does not make it fact either...The fact here is that there are very few facts in the world, most of what people claim as facts are good correlations...

As Damage said, facts need to be substantiated, especially when they contradict the general knowledge of the business world...

Capitals is also used to emphasise words, this does not make it a demand or anything else. Perhaps I could have used italics?

[Leigh]

Leigh, I have asked you to disprove my posted 'FACT's.
I'll ask you again, Please post proof, to discredit my posts. If you cannot, an apology would be much appreciated.



Bigger businesses than me are posting huge losses, some going bankrupt; perhaps they could do with your friendly advice.



Perhaps I misread your post #172 "It is the retailer who SHOULD be relaying this collective message to the wholesaler" I thought upper case print was deemed shouting, in this instant, that sure reads like dictating.




Perhaps they ordered too much stock and it stayed on the shelf collecting dust....




Then why on earth was it suggested that retailers buy more stock than required to meet antisipated demand ?

To date, I have offered genuine explanations to several issues and concerns that have been raised by members posting to this thread. It is an interesting thread and I have taken satisfaction, in both reading and posting to it.

Happy collecting, Garry

I really couldn't be bothered repeating myself on each and every one of these Garrry (notice the pun there?)...

Go back, put one eye in each socket instead of both in the one socket, open your mind up just a mm and re-read my posts...you might find some interesting stuff in there, certainly the companies that request meeting with me do...

[Leigh]

Geez I haven’t been on here for a few days and I see that for the first time I need to defend my business reputation on here.

Leigh, I am not sure what your issue with me is but this is the second time in a short period of time that you have jumped down my throat for having an opinion, in fact reading your most recent posts it looks like you don’t like any retailer having an opinion.

It doesn’t seem that you turning away people from my shop (for whatever reason) has had any effect as I am as busy as ever.

I now need you to spill your gutz on what you reckon I shafted you on as that is what it seems you are accusing me of.

I run an honest business and don’t shaft people however there will always be people that in their mind think that they have been shafted.

The size of my customer base and the fact that my business name does not pop up in the forums for the wrong reasons is testament to that.

For the record my business name is Bridge Model Cars and my name is Mark Bryan.

I am not afraid to defend myself in a public forum so Leigh I stand here ready to defend myself from your accusations, so bring it on and please also post your surname so that I can check through my past black lists for a possible shafting from you.

One last comment that may have been misinterpreted by some from my first post is that I do not and I am sure most model shops do not turn away new customers but the fact is that when a model is allocated to us ie: 60th, Red Dust, Frosty Cobra etc etc, my policy is that they are only available to my regular customers as even then they pre-sell out.

Regards Mark.

Such a defensive back-peddling post compared to your previous one Mark.

I don't mind retailers having an opinion at all, encourage it infact, but apparently I am not allowed to have a differing opinion? That is where you will draw me in everytime.

It was a long time ago now, but when I was looking for a new retailer, you were recommended, however you told me over the phone that you did not have a particular model in stock...had you provided that one model you would have landed my business...funnily enough I know somebody who bought that exact model the very next day from you. Dishonesty is what got you on my blacklist.

Prior to that I had ordered and purchased one model off of you...

Maybe I'm on the blacklist circulated between retailers for having differing opinions? Should be easy to find me then...

[Leigh]

I have'nt shafted anyone ;) Although as most people unlike me can only see the world one way i guess it would appear at times i do ;)

I think this will be my last post in this thread (for now)...

Seems people feel the need to defend their individual positions (kind of feel hypocritical now posting the rest of this post :confused:).

From the discussions on this thread it is evident from what some retailers are saying that everybody is shafting everybody...I just summised this from what was posted by others...and what I mean by everybody is the collectors as a whole, the retailers as a whole and the wholesalers as a whole...this does not mean everybody everytime nor any particular individual at any point in time either (people take everything so personally)...

Case in point, Mark said in post 100 he'll dud people, he also states that he also remembers if somebody dudded him...I own up to being one of those he has dudded, and that us customers also have a good memory for being dudded, and all of a sudden...well I'm not going to repeat my previous post LOL

Cheers
Leigh

[the_goldie]

I have not had a bad experience with any retailers thus far... *Touch Wood* My usual retailer comes through with the goods 99.99% of the times and then for those models I decide to get later if I can not get them through my usual retailer I get them from ebay(private or retailers who list on there) or from other retailers. I have ordered from Mark before for a couple of webber cars a few years ago without a problem. Have bought from Gateway models a few times and also a few others that deal on ebay. Think I even bought the Brock Plaque from pitstop model cars while it was on sale.

I guess it is when you are after those hard to get models that this seems to be a touchy subject for new comers to a shop to get a model... You can't please everyone and even more so now then when I first started collecting 9 years ago. It seemed much more relaxed in the model car world then.

It now seems like there are a few who are just in it to make a quick buck out of new-release models and have no interest in collecting and this seems to be ruining it for the majority of collectors. Well that's my view anyway :) I am just glad I am a collector and not a shop and also have a good relationship with my retailer.

[jager]

It now seems like there are a few who are just in it to make a quick buck out of new-release models and have no interest in collecting and this seems to be ruining it for the majority of collectors. Well that's my view anyway :)

I personally find it disappointing that too many retailers and collectors seem to think that anyone who seeks out rare models to resell can't be a "true collector".

Both from my own experience and that of other collectors I know, the profits made from buying and selling models is almost always used to fund collections. This is an expensive hobby and $5,000 a year doesn't go very far (especially when you consider the same amount would generally be enough to fund an investment property worth several thousand dollars).

Retailers seem to jealously look down their noses when customers profit from purchases made in their stores, but they need to understand that in most cases those same profits are what bring the customer back into their store a week or two later to purchase other less desirable models (that in many cases may have been sitting on the shelf for several months).

[Garry]

Ian, with great interest, I have just read your post.

With the ACCC's blessing, a retailer has the right NOT to sell an item, even when it is in the window for sale. The retailer may also price their stock at what ever value they feel the market place is willing to pay. Price fixing is illegal.

When a retailer inflates a price due to demand, a few voices are heard to demand that they are not allowed to do that. On the other hand, their are also a few voices that say that it is ok for a customer to buy to resell for a profit. What's the difference, its the poor old collector who missed out on release that is going to have to pay the inflated price.

My personal thoughts are, if a retailer has supplied all their customers pre-orders (not multiples), they can morally sell the remaining models on auction allowing the market to determine its value.

Perhaps I should start doing that when the next scarce model comes around.

What do they say, "If you can't beat them, join them" ???

"Food for thought"

[Maximus]

Its all about keeping the most amount of money in your pocket.
It works both ways.
I am always looking for a bargain and there are some to be had.
Just like the guy on here who picked up the VL Walky from a shop who had it sitting on the shelf and wanted it gone. ALl model shops should do that I reckon.

I know I wouldn't want stock sitting around gathering dust.
I would rather sell it for a discount and make minimal profit and sell more models.

I just want to know from one of the retailers, what price do you buy the model cars from Biante or whoever you get them from??? Say the new Biante VK Racecars that retail for $215.....What do you get them in for.....

[Maq]

I would be supprised if they told you. They cost under $50 each to make

[Maximus]

It all depends on how many are made right???
You cant just say they cost $50 to make as it would vary from model to model.

[AmonFan]

Its all about keeping the most amount of money in your pocket.
It works both ways.
I am always looking for a bargain and there are some to be had.
Just like the guy on here who picked up the VL Walky from a shop who had it sitting on the shelf and wanted it gone. ALl model shops should do that I reckon.

I know I wouldn't want stock sitting around gathering dust.
I would rather sell it for a discount and make minimal profit and sell more models.

I just want to know from one of the retailers, what price do you buy the model cars from Biante or whoever you get them from??? Say the new Biante VK Racecars that retail for $215.....What do you get them in for.....

If you see a shop selling a Brock Grp C VK for $99 its more than 25% off their cost :D

[Maximus]

I just checked an original invoice from a model shop that I bought off ebay years ago and the Original Track Red XY GT's were being sold to dealers for $73.50ea.

For us that bought them brand new back then they sold for $150ea and had sold out well before release. The dealers did alright out of that.

[AmonFan]

I just checked an original invoice from a model shop that I bought off ebay years ago and the Original Track Red XY GT's were being sold to dealers for $73.50ea.

For us that bought them brand new back then they sold for $150ea and had sold out well before release. The dealers did alright out of that.

Place i worked at sold them for $120 ;)

[Road Runner 72]

Well it's all about % , and a few posts/ threads back also had it typed out how it worked, it's like asking JB hifi how much do you pay for a blueray player, you'll get 2 different answers from to different stores, but they pay the same, which is around 20 - 30% off the ticket price, but with price changes over the years every thing goes up, so I was happy with 130 or so for my red xy. ;)

[AmonFan]

Well it's all about % , and a few posts/ threads back also had it typed out how it worked, it's like asking JB hifi how much do you pay for a blueray player, you'll get 2 different answers from to different stores, but they pay the same, which is around 20 - 30% off the ticket price, but with price changes over the years every thing goes up, so I was happy with 130 or so for my red xy. ;)

I think $130 was srp, its on the Biante CD which i don't have handy at the moment....

[jager]

Ian, with great interest, I have just read your post.

With the ACCC's blessing, a retailer has the right NOT to sell an item, even when it is in the window for sale. The retailer may also price their stock at what ever value they feel the market place is willing to pay. Price fixing is illegal.

When a retailer inflates a price due to demand, a few voices are heard to demand that they are not allowed to do that. On the other hand, their are also a few voices that say that it is ok for a customer to buy to resell for a profit. What's the difference, its the poor old collector who missed out on release that is going to have to pay the inflated price.

My personal thoughts are, if a retailer has supplied all their customers pre-orders (not multiples), they can morally sell the remaining models on auction allowing the market to determine its value.

Perhaps I should start doing that when the next scarce model comes around.

What do they say, "If you can't beat them, join them" ???

"Food for thought"

Garry, I know we rarely agree on anything but I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying. However, I wasn't suggesting retailers had to to sell at RRP, I was simply saying that the profits collectors make from reselling will inverably flow back to the retailers anyway, so you get benefit either way.

When I was sourcing my models from you, any profits made from re-selling went straight back into other purchases I made with you for my personal collection. I don't think you ever really accepted that :)

[AmonFan]

I think $130 was srp, its on the Biante CD which i don't have handy at the moment....

To correct myself, lol.....

Release price according to the CD for the following XY's
Track Red $140
Ultra White $140
Wild Violet $125 (thinking about it, i reckon this is the one the place i worked at the time had for $120)
Yellow Ochre $130

[SDK]

I just want to know from one of the retailers, what price do you buy the model cars from Biante or whoever you get them from???

Yeh perhaps interesting to know, yet that would be like going to your bank (who is also likely to be a listed public company) and asking them how much they make on your mortgage. Theey aren't going to tell ya. Neither would the supermarket on your food, yet you can still see how much Woolies make each year.

[Leigh]

Ian, with great interest, I have just read your post.

With the ACCC's blessing, a retailer has the right NOT to sell an item, even when it is in the window for sale. The retailer may also price their stock at what ever value they feel the market place is willing to pay. Price fixing is illegal.

When a retailer inflates a price due to demand, a few voices are heard to demand that they are not allowed to do that. On the other hand, their are also a few voices that say that it is ok for a customer to buy to resell for a profit. What's the difference, its the poor old collector who missed out on release that is going to have to pay the inflated price.

My personal thoughts are, if a retailer has supplied all their customers pre-orders (not multiples), they can morally sell the remaining models on auction allowing the market to determine its value.

Perhaps I should start doing that when the next scarce model comes around.

What do they say, "If you can't beat them, join them" ???

"Food for thought"

There's an old saying that talks about cutting, noses and faces...even "threatening" to go down that path is ludicrous for so many reasons...

What purpose do you have in threatening to shaft everybody by going straight to ebay?

As I said earlier...everybody shafting everybody is a great way to kill the whole industry!

Can you explain why 2/3 of the retailers posting in this thread are so aggresive and defensive and telling us how they intend to ensure that I may not get the model I may be chasing?

[Garry]

When I was sourcing my models from you, any profits made from re-selling went straight back into other purchases I made with you for my personal collection. I don't think you ever really accepted that :)

Ian, my intention is not to cross swords with you, but, to clear up any mis-understanding that you seem to have with me.

Yes, you were one of my regular customers. The turning point was when you asked for a multiple purchase of a certain model, quoting "I have friends overseas that want them", you were supplied your order. Re-selling them on ebay for profit is not looking after your "overseas friends".
Buying multiple scarce models to sell at a profit, then spending that profit overseas to buy models that are locally available, is not really supporting the local retailer, is it.
I do appreciate that prices do vary from country to country, as it does from shop to shop.

I sincerly hope that you now understand where I am coming from and why I made the decisions I did.

As this thread is going off track, if you wish to continue this conversation, please PM.

Regards, Garry

[Garry]

Leigh,
don't take things personally, or too seriously.

Have a good weekend.

Regards, Garry

[Maximus]

Yeh perhaps interesting to know, yet that would be like going to your bank (who is also likely to be a listed public company) and asking them how much they make on your mortgage. Theey aren't going to tell ya. Neither would the supermarket on your food, yet you can still see how much Woolies make each year.

The banks do release how much profit they made. All ASX companys do to right???
I know how much they made from my mortgage.

After we paid it off they sent a letter saying how much interest and fees we had paid over the life of the loan.

My sister worked at the Good Guys and they had a Samsung TV for sale for $10K. My father in law asked how much she could get it for and she said COST PRICE plus GST.
He walked out the same day and paid $5800.

Why cant a model shop say what they buy a VK for???
If they dont want to thats ok but I thought it would be interesting to find out.

[AmonFan]

The banks do release how much profit they made. All ASX companys do to right???
I know how much they made from my mortgage.

After we paid it off they sent a letter saying how much interest and fees we had paid over the life of the loan.

My sister worked at the Good Guys and they had a Samsung TV for sale for $10K. My father in law asked how much she could get it for and she said COST PRICE plus GST.
He walked out the same day and paid $5800.

Why cant a model shop say what they buy a VK for???
If they dont want to thats ok but I thought it would be interesting to find out.

The Samsung TV has more mark up on it than the models do ;)

[Leigh]

Old numbers, but you should be able to reverse the maths:

http://forums.biante.com.au/showthread.php?t=3741

Maximus, So very different! A model shop makes, lets say $50 per model, has to sell probably 5 models a day just to stay in business, and here you are wanting to buy one with no margin for them to pay the bills...

Compare that with your Good Guys who literally sell hundreds of products a day, probably bringing in the operating costs before lunch...after that it's about being good to customers and getting them to return...

Try going to Good Guys on a slow day and in my experience the price is usually higher than a busy day...

[Maximus]

No I dont want to buy them with no margin but I do expenc a model that has been sitting there for 12 months not to be top dollar.
I dont think it is wrong to ASK for a better price.
If they can do it they generally will to make a sale but if they are going to make an actual loss on it they wont.

Good Guys just like JBHIFI will do a deal anytime they have the item in stock.

[Leigh]

No, I don't think it is unreasonable to ASK, but from your first few posts in this thread, it would appear that you were complaining that they said NO, or would not haggle...

My previous post was in response to post #237 where you implied they should sell with no margin...

[Leigh]

The banks do release how much profit they made. All ASX companys do to right???
I know how much they made from my mortgage.

After we paid it off they sent a letter saying how much interest and fees we had paid over the life of the loan.


So they also listed salaries of the clerks, auditors, bank managers etc...well I'll be!

I'd place money on it that they only told you how much money you paid to them, not how much they made...two different numbers!

[Maximus]

Nah the actual model shop did drop his price as he wanted to sell the bike but another model shop wont budge on some CMC's he has had sitting there for years.
Thats my complaint. Drop the prices a bit and you will sell them.
Skywalker wanted to make a sale on the BBR Ferrari I bought so he gave me a great price and I bought it. If not it would probably still be sitting there.

Most retail shops sell off old stock they cant move cheap. Why cant model shops???

No but I am not asking retailers on here to tell me how much they earn but how much they buy the model cars for...

The bank did seperate the interest paid but yes it doesn't reflect how much they actually made.

[Maximus]

No, I don't think it is unreasonable to ASK, but from your first few posts in this thread, it would appear that you were complaining that they said NO, or would not haggle...

My previous post was in response to post #237 where you implied they should sell with no margin...


In that post where did I imply that model shops should sell with no margin???

[edy]

Can you explain why 2/3 of the retailers posting in this thread are so aggresive and defensive and telling us how they intend to ensure that I may not get the model I may be chasing?

I've noticed aggression too.

I have surprised the moderators have not become involved.

Would the same retailer feel the same way if you bought 2 models that are difficult to move?

Let's be honest here, there seems to be more models in the market that fall in value rather than rise. Only models I can think of in the last few years are 06 and 08 BW, Red Dust, Cobra and Efijy, Brock Porsche.

If the retailer doesnt want to see multiple models, so be it.

So the key is to buy your models from two sources and develop a good relationship. Then you can have your 2 models!:D:D:D

[Maximus]

I think it has been a good thread that hasn't got to the point of people attacking others. It sure is rare these days as most threads like this turn to poopoo quick.

[Damage]

I think it has been a good thread that hasn't got to the point of people attacking others. It sure is rare these days as most threads like this turn to poopoo quick.

Yeah, this has been good, the poopoo has only been ankle-deep and only half of the poopoo slung has been the sticky variety :D

[Maximus]

hahahahaha. :D

[malscar]

So they also listed salaries of the clerks, auditors, bank managers etc...well I'll be!

I'd place money on it that they only told you how much money you paid to them, not how much they made...two different numbers!

For a Bank to break even on loans, they need to make at least 1.5% more than what they are paying for the money. Most do not realise that the majority of home loan funds are actually borrowed offshore. So if they borrow it at 5%, then they need to loan it out at 6.5% to break even. The low start loans actually don't reach the break even point until sometime in the third year.

[brchi17]

....Throughout the thread there seems to have been a bit of 'side swiping'. Even a moderator posted as to how he missed out on a model. A moderator is like a referee, they cannot do their job properly if they get involved, sorry.........

Garry, (You can answer this one buddy)

A modderator is a member/collector who gives there time to help keep the forum clean, its not a paid job & its a open forum for disscusions like this, they just keep there eyes on things & if ever any member feels that one of there post is out of line, they can report the post like any other, Ive been a mod over the years on other forums & can honestly say its a thankless job at times, so there input like anyother is welcome in my eyes.....

I'm going to have to bite on this one, as it appears you've used my post/comment in a way which was not how it was intended to be used. I've got to say that Gary you've got it completely wrong with your comment above and I would suggest you read Mike's comment of what a moderator is that I've quoted with your opinion of how I'm not meeting your standards....

It's disappointing that you've chosen to single out me as not being a good moderator, however as I am not a member of Biante staff then I feel I have a right like another other member, to participate where I feel I can add something to a thread. Sadly under your opinion of what I should be doing as a moderator, I should of stopped posting well over 3 years ago & Wayno shouldn't have been posting on this forum for several years either...If you feel you can do a better job then I will more than happily resign from being a moderator right here, right now!

As Mike has said, moderating this/a forum is a very thankless job and it's certainly not something we do for the $$$ as there is none!

So why do it you may ask?

We both moderate the forum because it's our way of giving something back to this community, however if I (being the one you have a beef with) have overstayed my welcome then as I said earlier, I'll sadly walk away now. I know my wife would be more than happy for me to quit as it would give her back her husband for the couple of hours I spend most days reading posts (often to them contributing), approving posts/attachments and helping our members with problems and the most hated part of this role, having to wield the big stick when required.

The ball is in your court.