Sandown 500

[TIC-302]

I hope its Ford 1,2,3 !:D

[Leigh]

Well, only 3 Holdens in the Top 10 after first practice!

1 4 Pirtek Racing R.Ingall/M.Ambrose Ford Falcon BA 5000 27 13 1:11.6819*
2 51 K-Mart Racing Team R.Kelly/G.Murphy Holden Commodore VY 5000 23 22 1:11.8042 0:00.1223
3 31 Super Cheap Auto Racing S.Ellery/L.Youlden Ford Falcon BA 5000 25 25 1:11.8453 0:00.1634
4 18 Shell Helix Racing M.Wilson/D.Brabham Ford Falcon BA 5000 28 16 1:11.8849 0:00.2030
5 65 Betta Electrical P.Radisich/R.Rydell Ford Falcon BA 5000 25 18 1:11.9498 0:00.2679
6 1 Holden Racing Team M.Skaife/T.Kelly Holden Commodore VY 5000 21 21 1:12.1455 0:00.4636
7 21 OzEmail Racing Team B.Jones/J.Bowe Ford Falcon BA 5000 23 17 1:12.1976 0:00.5157
8 9 Caltex Havoline Race Team M.Noske/M.Winterbottom Ford Falcon BA 5000 27 12 1:12.3412 0:00.6593
9 10 Orrcon Racing M.Larkham/J.Bargwanna Ford Falcon AU 5000 20 16 1:12.4580 0:00.7761
10 29 Sirromet - Life,Style,Wine P.Morris/J.Faulkner Holden Commodore VY 5000 23 22 1:12.4862 0:00.8043

At this point it looks like Thexton may qualify...

Cheers

[Gan88]

Note that only sbr have two competitive cars

[the_goldie]

I don't think I would read much into the first practice times, as I would think the teams will be testing different setups, but still "WHERE ARE ALL THE HOLDENS!" :(

[Leigh]

According to Sandown's webpage, the V8Supercar lap record for qualifying is 1:10.93 and for race 1:11.65...both by Lowndes in a HRT Commodore. The current top 5 cars are not far off the pace for first practice!

Cheers:)

[TIC-302]

Last year Ambrose was on top of all of the time sheets
and one both races,nothings changed hey !

Note;

last year Ambroses first practice time was a 1.11.45sec(AU)

second practice time was a 1.11.19sec(AU)

[Leigh]

Swap the drivers and go out for the second practice...Top 10 for the second practice was

1 1 Holden Racing Team M.Skaife/T.Kelly Holden Commodore VY 5000 30 20 1:11.4960*
2 21 OzEmail Racing Team B.Jones/J.Bowe Ford Falcon BA 5000 23 19 1:11.5495 0:00.0535
3 29 Sirromet - Life,Style,Wine P.Morris/J.Faulkner Holden Commodore VY 5000 27 27 1:11.7020 0:00.2060
4 65 Betta Electrical P.Radisich/R.Rydell Ford Falcon BA 5000 29 29 1:11.7557 0:00.2597
5 4 Pirtek Racing R.Ingall/M.Ambrose Ford Falcon BA 5000 28 18 1:11.7872 0:00.2912
6 50 Team Brock J.Bright/P.Weel Holden Commodore VX 5000 28 28 1:11.8149 0:00.3189
7 17 Shell Helix Racing S.Johnson/W.Luff Ford Falcon BA 5000 27 27 1:11.8258 0:00.3298
8 9 Caltex Havoline Race Team M.Noske/M.Winterbottom Ford Falcon BA 5000 33 30 1:11.8294 0:00.3334
9 11 Castrol Perkins Racing Team S.Richards/L.Perkins Holden Commodore VY 5000 26 16 1:11.8533 0:00.3573
10 6 Ford Performance Racing C.Lowndes/G.Seton Ford Falcon BA 5000 21 21 1:11.8811 0:00.3851

AFAIK
Ingall, Wilson, Rat, Winterbottom, Johnson, Bowe, Longhurst, Canto, Skaife and Larkham were all driving in the first practice session...their co-drivers in the second...Don't know who was in the other cars in which session at this stage...

Comparing the two sessions, Toddler has the quickest time followed by Jones and Ambrose.

Cheers

[wayno]

Pretty sure Skaife set the quick time in car 1.

[TIC-302]

Ambrose on pole again!!:D YEEEHHHAAAA!

Although the times were the same in Qualifying as last year in the AU.

In the top 10 shutout this year Ambrose did a 1.11.8sec
where last year he got pole and did a 1.10.98sec

Bring back the AU I say,,,mmmm maybe not;)

[biante1948]

There was something on the CH 10 Sports news about the windy conditions. Something about a 20 knot tailwind at turn 1. Brought quite a few drivers undone. Maybe this had something to do with the lap times.
Shoot out times:
Ambrose--1.11.855
Skaife--------+0.424
Murph--------+0.519
Rat------------+0.788
Wills----------+0.789
Johnson------+0.815
Lowndes-----+0.826
Bowe---------+0.089
Morris---------+1.161
Ellery----------+8.770 due to his huge spin off.

Will be a good race and will rely a lot on their co-drivers.

Go Ambrose / Ingall

[the_goldie]

Wooohoooo... finally after so many round wins to Ford on the trot Holden grab a win.

What a fantastic race. How about that weather. I could not believe what I was seeing on TV. Brought back memories of me freezing my butt off at Bathurst in 2001.

Could not believe Wills/Richards (can't remember who was driving) trying to take Skaife on the turn he tried... He almost took them both out. He probably would have got past Skaife on the next lap as he looked much quicker. Silly and maybe a little impatient!

The SBR car of Ambrose/Ingall is still looking quick after Ingall beached it on his 1st lap out and would have been even more interesting had he not done that.

Congrats to HRT, Kelly and Skaife for a great drive. Good to see that Murph and Kelly got back upto 3rd after their little mishap in the pits... I thought poor Murph was going to explode again.

What happened to Team Brock - NHJ :(

Didn't do much for my finishline picks though, oh well...

[Ford 17]

G'day, Does any body know how the rules will effect Scaife. After reading the rules D3.6 states That the car's rain light must remain illuminated at all times when it is running on wet-weather tyres. After all Mark Scaife did turn off the light himself.:confused:

Regards Shane.

[Glen Alexander]

Yeehah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bout time!!!! Although I thought I picked Skaife in my Finishline picks, just checked them and I picked ambrose then Skaife. What a mistake, oh well, at least Skaife finally got another win, very lucky that Jason Richards had a brain fade otherwise we would have seen him on top of the podium.

Ellery and Youlden did really well too, the Super Cheap team is improving.

[Malik]

HRT on top of the podium.... right back where they belong..... even with electrical problems on the car Skaifey does it again...


btw... WHAT THE HELL was that from Ingall... his first drive for the race and not even finished one whole lap and into the sand? guess that nice big earth move--- I mean splitter is to much temptation for him to go play in the dirt......



YYEEEEAHHHHHOOOOOOO HRT ON TOP!!!!!!:D

[The Judge]

How far did they go?
What a let down, I want to see a full race distance race, I wish they would allow enough time, (within reason of course).

Those rear shunts are a blight on the sport, drivers if found guilty enough by the stewards for a drive through, should get relegated to position behind the poor b%$#@# they took out. Might make them think twice............
There has to be a way to stop the rot that mars just about every race.

[Malik]

they did allow enough time for the whole race... then they had to start late...

[the_goldie]

Yeah must admit - I would have liked to see the Sandown 500 run its full course. What is this with it had to finish by 4.45p? Never heard of this in a race before...

I would hate to see Bathurst only run 900kms!

Still inconsistancy with the drive throughs... Kmart car got spun around and nothing and poor Tander gets one for a mistake by someone else in front of him...

[Malik]

did GRM end up getting penalised for letting whincup pull out in front of murphs?

IE>.. SACK THE CAR CONTROLLER

[Glen Alexander]

I would imagine the time limit thing is to do with broadcasting on Channel 10. They have an alotted time slot to 5pm, probably can't go past that time.

[admin]

Originally posted by the_goldie
Yeah must admit - I would have liked to see the Sandown 500 run its full course. What is this with it had to finish by 4.45p? Never heard of this in a race before...

I would hate to see Bathurst only run 900kms!



Just another case of the motorsport fan getting screwed.
Channel 10's news is MUCH more important than the Sandown 500.
If I had atteneded the track, I would have asked for my money back as they promoted a 500km race and didnt provide it. Nothing to do with anything except keeping to a TV schedule. AND it could happen at Bathurst.

[Malik]

let's hope none of the historics hit a fence at Bathurst and they leave it till -RIGHT- before the main race to fix....

that was almost as bad as the safety car pulling off the track in Darwin with the tow truck still on the track right in front of the cars....

[Esses]

I think Bathurst would be safe. Imagine the uproar if they left it to go to the News, or cut it short. From memory, neither has ever happened, & I can remember a few races running late enough to finish in twilight.

[SWRT]

If the race ran the full 161 laps we would have had HRT #1 DNF with electrical problems and a Team Dynamik or Steve Ellery win.
I say Colin Bond should disquailify Skaife for turning off the storm lights in rain, exessivly blocking Jason Richards and hitting Jason Richards off the track, bad driving could not be tolerated, it wasn't brain fade from Richards behalf but bad driving from Skaife.

[BATHURSTFAN]

Why don't they start 30mins early to cover for any POSSIBLE delays.

[vt2envy]

Originally posted by SWRT
If the race ran the full 161 laps we would have had HRT #1 DNF with electrical problems and a Team Dynamik or Steve Ellery win.
I say Colin Bond should disquailify Skaife for turning off the storm lights in rain, exessivly blocking Jason Richards and hitting Jason Richards off the track, bad driving could not be tolerated, it wasn't brain fade from Richards behalf but bad driving from Skaife.

perhaps checking your own backyard for brain fade first would be a good idea...

[Malik]

Originally posted by SWRT
If the race ran the full 161 laps we would have had HRT #1 DNF with electrical problems and a Team Dynamik or Steve Ellery win.
I say Colin Bond should disquailify Skaife for turning off the storm lights in rain, exessivly blocking Jason Richards and hitting Jason Richards off the track, bad driving could not be tolerated, it wasn't brain fade from Richards behalf but bad driving from Skaife.


ahem.. they went round the corner side by side... skaife hit the skids and richards didnt.....


btw... the rules say that you CAN block to protect driving line in the last 5 laps of the race.. and considering the race was shortened.. they were in the last 5 laps... not Skaife's fault that richards lost it

Game over!

[Pedro]

Originally posted by SWRT
If the race ran the full 161 laps we would have had HRT #1 DNF with electrical problems and a Team Dynamik or Steve Ellery win.
I say Colin Bond should disquailify Skaife for turning off the storm lights in rain, exessivly blocking Jason Richards and hitting Jason Richards off the track, bad driving could not be tolerated, it wasn't brain fade from Richards behalf but bad driving from Skaife.
If Jason Richards kept calm and had not come down the inside of Skaife too hot out braked himself and went off in the sand trap(Richards pushed Skaife wide while trying to take the lead) he would have had him on the front straight .
Skaife has a right to defend the position when both cars are trying to win the race.

[Glen Alexander]

Exactly. If he had just held off he would have got him on the next lap. He was clearly faster than Skaife in the dying stages of the race.

[vt2envy]

Yes ...I reckon inexperience got the better of him and right about now he would be suffering from not only a serverly chewed ear but a case of what might have been...
Could have swarn Skaife had a smile from ear to ear under that helmet..:o)

[admin]

Originally posted by BATHURSTFAN
Why don't they start 30mins early to cover for any POSSIBLE delays.
What ARE you talking about......who is supposed to be running this thing!!! AVESCO or Channel10?
The race goes for 500km...NOT til news time.

[Elvis]

Originally posted by Pedro

If Jason Richards kept calm and had not come down the inside of Skaife too hot out braked himself and went off in the sand trap(Richards pushed Skaife wide while trying to take the lead) he would have had him on the front straight .
Skaife has a right to defend the position when both cars are trying to win the race.

Pretty funny reply there VT2ENVY.

Well said Pedro,coudnt have said it any more correct if you tried,although I feel sorry for J.Richards,it would have been good for a 1st time winner to win,and also a RELATIVELY low budget team to win.

[SWRT]

I agree with admin,
heres a statement from Jason Richards-

"A crest fallen Jason Richards said he was annoyed with Skaife: “I jumped up the inside of him and went to the outside and then came over on me and hit me. I had a go, but the incident between Mark and I didn’t need to happen, there was no need for him to come over like that"

Heres the rule on storm lights-

D 3.6 Rain Light
The Car's rain light must be illuminated at all times when it is running on wet-weather tyres

[TIC-302]

The "rainlight" situation is interesting , I wonder what can be done about it, would the stewards strip skaife from his win?

Anyway it was a good race even though I am a ford fan, Skaif's/kelly's HRT car was quick in the dry but even quicker in the wet.
This will make Bathurst very interesting !

here are the points so far...

DRIVERS CHAMPIONSHIP POINTS STANDING (AFTER 8 OF 13 ROUNDS)
1: Marcos Ambrose (Ford) 1519
2: Greg Murphy (Holden) 1413
3: Mark Skaife (Holden) 1337
4: Russell Ingall (Ford) 1331
5: Jason Bright (Holden) 1291
6: Steve Richards (Holden) 1214
7: Craig Lowndes (Ford) 1196
8: Rick Kelly (Holden) 1132
9: Paul Weel (Holden) 1121
10: Todd Kelly (Holden) 1106

ADJUSTED CHAMPIONSHIP POINTS (AFTER 8 OF 13 ROUNDS)
* After driver drops his worst round
1: Marcos Ambrose (Ford) 1423
2: Mark Skaife (Holden) 1301
3: Greg Murphy (Holden) 1299
4: Jason Bright (Holden) 1279
5: Russell Ingall (Ford) 1249
6: Steve Richards (Holden) 1214
7: Craig Lowndes (Ford) 1138
8: Paul Weel (Holden) 1109
9: Todd Kelly (Holden) 1106
10: Rick Kelly (Holden) 1078

[Glen Alexander]

I know it's a rule, and rules can't be broken, but who gives a damn if his light was off. Of course he was on wets, he'd be the best driver in the world if he could control his car like that in the atrocious conditions on slicks. I doubt he could be stripped of his win because of a minor infraction like that.

[bayden]

I think the finish time for the race would be more to do with a track curfew time rather than trying to fit in with Channel 10's time schedule. If that WAS the case why would they not run to 4.55?
Pity to see the Richards car not able to beat Skaife, a little more patience and the race would most certainly have been theirs. Skaife should be penalised in some way for the rain light thing though! Rules is rules! And yes, I could swear Skaife was smiling so hard his face hurt.

[vt2envy]

I feel stripping him of a race win would be a little unfair,given the circumstances, and it is not as tho richards was having trouble trying to see him.But rules are rules and perhaps a fine would be more fair..

[Malik]

Originally posted by SWRT
[B]I agree with admin,
heres a statement from Jason Richards-

"A crest fallen Jason Richards said he was annoyed with Skaife: “I jumped up the inside of him and went to the outside and then came over on me and hit me. I had a go, but the incident between Mark and I didn’t need to happen, there was no need for him to come over like that"



WHAT THE!!!!... Richards needs to watch the replay's.... yes... he went down the inside of skaife.. TO HOT!!!... he was going off the track regardless of whether skaife hit him or not.. the only difference is IMHO is that being hit MIGHT have held him on the track if skaife had of hit him harder.... as for the hit causing him to go off that is a load of bulls***.. he was going off either way cos he was way to late on the brakes..... Skaife was trying to keep his car outta the sand and had to turn to do so... AND the fact that it was a corner would say to me that Skaife needed to turn....

Grow up Richards and stop making excuses for a bad decision....

and I do agree... richards would have had him had the race gone longer and he didnt go off.. skaife's car was slowing down ..

[spoonster05]

It's a shame that Jason Richards tried that move at that time, if only he had of waited till the entry to the main straight he would have had it....

Shame about the Kmart car's rear wing dramas to, Murph and Rick probably would have had the pace to win the thing...

As for the race finishing at 4.45pm that's more likely to fit in with the television schedule, as I can recall a few rounds at Sandown and Bathurst where support races were cancelled or delayed until after the last heat of the touring car races to fit in with scheduling.

[Malik]

whincup being allowed to pull out in front of him didnt help matters either considering the acward angle the kmart car was on.

[Oh Five]

All in all, i thought it was a very entertaining race, lead changes, weather, rams up the backside /pit dramas not getting penalised. Its a pity skaife haters like SWRT etc, cant just accept the results instead of making excuses and playing the "if it had of gone full distance"game
Roll on Bathurst and may the first car across the line win;)

[Malik]

Im a Skaife supporter and even I say if it had of gone full distance he would have lost ...

but....


it didnt go full distance...
he didnt lose....

GO HOLDEN!

Bring on Bathurst!!!!!!!

[Mark]

I know that Biante does not have the rights to the SBR cars, but could they do the 18th scale bucket and spade.....?

[Leigh]

Originally posted by the_goldie
What a fantastic race. How about that weather. I could not believe what I was seeing on TV. Brought back memories of me freezing my butt off at Bathurst in 2001.

Lucky you only had to watch it, we were standing in it!!! Talk about four seasons in one day, I got sunburnt and pretty damn close to frost bite. Mate, people couldn't stay upright walking, how they continued circulating even at the reduced speed is beyond me, I could only see a few hundred metres in front of me due to the intensity of the hail!!!.

According to on-track announcments, the race ended at 454km...

I've read a few comments above about starting early, finishing 500 km (they actually did advertise the 4:45 finish), Ch 10 news being more important etc.

The 500 at Sandown does start early enough to finish AND takes into account possible delays, problem was that the start was delayed 40 min because of the accident in the historics, AND there was the hail. If there had been one or the other delay, they would have made the end easy...shall we start all major races at 10am to avoid this in the future, I don't think so...

And as for the 4:45 finish...Sandown has a curfew of 5:00pm SHARP on a Sunday. Break that and they lose their permit. We have already lost Phillip Island, we do not want to lose Sandown as well!!!

Cheers

[XU1torana]

Just got some insider info on HRT and a $14,000 fine for yesterday.

1/ $7,000 for the rainlights not being on towards the end of the race.
2/ $7,000 for a pits fire regulations infringement.

[Earnhardt-3]

Originally posted by SWRT
I agree with admin,
heres a statement from Jason Richards-

"A crest fallen Jason Richards said he was annoyed with Skaife: “I jumped up the inside of him and went to the outside and then came over on me and hit me. I had a go, but the incident between Mark and I didn’t need to happen, there was no need for him to come over like that"

Heres the rule on storm lights-

D 3.6 Rain Light
The Car's rain light must be illuminated at all times when it is running on wet-weather tyres

Jason Richards had the race in the bag and he pis*ed it up the wall - that's all there is to it. But it was a great day for the Dynamic team. They've been knocking on the door for a podium all year, and it was said for it to go down the drain. But, that's motor racing I'm afraid. They'll just have to have a crack at the mountain.

Rain light?... What happens if the light will not work due to a malfunction?... or a hit up the arse?... I beleive there would have to be penalties provided in the rules for Skaife to be issued with an infringement. Maybe we could see a new rule added in the future... I know it's an important safety tool, but I find it doubtful that a car would be disqualified for a little light not working...

Brad.

[brchi17]

For those of you who watched the race on the box, who was frustrated by all of the abbreviations running across the bottom of the screen during the race ???

I know this is a little pity, but if they were going to run the places across the bottom of the screen, I think it would have been of much more use to us if they had of just put the full name of the current driver. The 3 letters of the drivers & co-drivers name looked like a real confusing mess.

I mean before they could run the places they had to run a key across the screen to explain what was coming, it would have been much quicker to have just put, place, car # & current driver & saved some time.

Just a thought,

cheers.:)

[Earnhardt-3]

Yeh, stupid idea.

Who ever came up with that idea at Channel 10 requires an ar$e kicking, for sure.

Just score it with the full drivers' names. I think they need to watch a few Nascar telecasts to get the right idea.... those guys do it so well.

But don't get me wrong. 10 do a great job.

Cheers,
Brad.

[Leigh]

Originally posted by Earnhardt-3
Rain light?... What happens if the light will not work due to a malfunction?... or a hit up the arse?... I beleive there would have to be penalties provided in the rules for Skaife to be issued with an infringement. Maybe we could see a new rule added in the future... I know it's an important safety tool, but I find it doubtful that a car would be disqualified for a little light not working...


Skaife should have been black-flagged for braech of safety regulations, just as GRM were black-flagged last year when their brake lights malfuntioned, and were not allowed back out until they did work. Accident or not, safety features must work!

[brchi17]

Originally posted by lcfp2297
Skaife should have been black-flagged for braech of safety regulations, just as GRM were black-flagged last year when their brake lights malfuntioned, and were not allowed back out until they did work. Accident or not, safety features must work!

I whole heartly argee, but I just wonder if the fact that the race was almost over played on the mind of the officals ???

I've read else where that HRT were finded $7k for the rain light issue - a drive through would have been more appropiate in my opinon, last lap or not.

cheers.:)

[wayno]

Great day and great result. All you Skaife haters get over it. Jason Richards it was all yours so get some patience and some maturity and stop moaning about it. Can't believe how cold I was during the hail on Sunday, at least the telly kept working! Oh and THANK-YOU Russell Ingall!

[TIC-302]

Originally posted by wayno
Oh and THANK-YOU Russell Ingall!


Oh, guess who is leading the championship....!:D


Lucky win for HRT/Skaife

Lucky it wasn't 161 laps hey !?;)

[the_goldie]

Originally posted by brchi17


I whole heartly argee, but I just wonder if the fact that the race was almost over played on the mind of the officals ???

I've read else where that HRT were finded $7k for the rain light issue - a drive through would have been more appropiate in my opinon, last lap or not.

cheers.:)

A drive thru - whats that gonna prove? He would still be driving around with it off... As soon as Skaife/Kelly/HRT wins everyone jumps down their throat and bags them.

Yeah he had the rain light off, jeez in those conditions who wasn't on wets!? I know safety but seriously when everyone is on wets what does the rain light prove? I am sure if Ambrose/Ingall didn't have the rain light on everyone would be saying woohoo another Ford win!

If the rain light not being on is such a big thing then 'why' didn't they black flag HRT???

TIC-302 - it wasn't 161 laps so what can you do?! If it was then maybe Team Dynamik would have won?!?! Alot of what ifs but that's motor racing........ what if it didn't rain - maybe then Team Brock would not have crashed out, what if Team Brock had pitted a lap earlier to get wets...what if the Shell cars didn't have a bingle... what if Richards waited another corner and the story goes on...

[wayno]

Hear! Hear! HRT win and everyone *****es and moans, Stone Bros win and it's 'oh what a good job they did'. I for one am sick of the constant critisism.
'If' is an irrelevant word. The race was as long as it was, the people that crashed out crashed out and HRT took a well deserved victory. Get over it people.

[Gan88]

No one is whinging about SRT winning, they are whinging about rules not being followed. If Skaife did not have a car with full operation of its safety features, he should have been black flagged, made to pit and have the problem fixed.

Remember, every win SBR have had this year have been unblemished. Even considering Marcos' drive through at Qld.

[brchi17]

Originally posted by the_goldie
Yeah he had the rain light off, jeez in those conditions who wasn't on wets!? I know safety but seriously when everyone is on wets what does the rain light prove?

I guess that rain light is only there so that other competitors can be see the back of their car in the wet. Hey, I'm sure we'd all hear about it if someone had of speered into the back of the #1 HRT car because they couldn't see him throught the thick mist ????

Originally posted by the_goldie A drive thru - whats that gonna prove? He would still be driving around with it off...

Perhaps a drive thru could have been beacuse they were in breach of the rules & it would have been fair if the car was restricted in pit lane until the light was fixed ????

Originally posted by the_goldie As soon as Skaife/Kelly/HRT wins everyone jumps down their throat and bags them........ I am sure if Ambrose/Ingall didn't have the rain light on everyone would be saying woohoo another Ford win!

I don't think anyone is baging the job Toddler & Skaife did in those conditions on Sunday, it was an awesome performance in trying conditions. I think it was more of the fact that they broke the rules. Not because they won. I'm sure we all would have felt the same had any of the Ford's won without their rain light working - a level playing field they call it.

Originally posted by the_goldie If the rain light not being on is such a big thing then 'why' didn't they black flag HRT???

I think this is why people raised the question in the first place.

Don't take it too personally goldie, it was a good race & i don't think this is a Ford/Holden arguement, rather a consitancy one.

At least on a brighter note, almost ever driver who punted someone off the track from behind, got a drive thru pentalty. So perhaps the officals were working that little bit harder to try & be seen to being at least a little bit fairer.

cheers.:)

[Leigh]

I point everybody to the following thread

http://forums.biante.com.au/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2108

SBR's win was questioned there...not so "unblemished" a record.

Please do not turn this into a "everybody picks on skaife and nobody else" thread...it is not.

The rain light is there as a safety measure.

Watch the cars go down the straight in the wet from behind. The cars on slicks can still be seen, without any tail-lights on for more than 50 metres...the cars with wets for less than 10 metres. This was the reason the rain light was introduced...not to tell people what tyres you are on, but to actually let them know where you are. IIRC there was an incident on Mt Panorama a few years ago where visibility was reduced, backmarkers on wets were travelling extremely slow across the top of the mountain and the leaders nearly collected them...when racing bumper to bumper, how do you know exactly where the car in front is if all you can see is spray??? You have a rain light!

I think that it was too late in the race for race control to do anything...as it takes between 2 and 4 laps for a penalty/black flag to be issued...at this time it is left up to the stewards.

As for appropriate penalties, for breach of rain light rules, the penalty is either a black-flag so the light can be fixed, or financial penalty...we will see whether there is a penalty or not.

As for the race win, Skaife/Kelly won it fair and square, no question there at all. They put in a mighty fine effort to stay on the lead lap.

Cheers:)

[Glen Alexander]

I think a black flag for non working brake lights is essential, but for a rain light? I don't think so. If they did get the $7000 fine as mentioned a few posts earlier, I think that is sufficient. No one crashed into him, the conditions when he was duelling with Richards were clear enough for JR to see him a mile back.

Get over it.

[Gan88]

I remember the issue of how to fine teams being raised a along time ago. A few thousand doesn't really hurt them. Fines need to be much much higher (50K+) or be in the form of lost championship points.

[Kiwiracing]

All I can say is BUGGER, Jason made a mistake :(

Watch out for Team Dynamik at Bathurst:cool:

Cheers
Kiwiracing

[Leigh]

Originally posted by Kiwiracing
All I can say is BUGGER, Jason made a mistake :(

Watch out for Team Dynamik at Bathurst:cool:

Cheers
Kiwiracing

Gee, that contradicts Team Dynamics Press Release...

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/news/latestnews/newsd isplay.asp?gid=8243

Haven't seen the accident myself, but from what everybody is saying, Richards was at fault??

Cheers

[brchi17]

Originally posted by lcfp2297
Haven't seen the accident myself, but from what everybody is saying, Richards was at fault??

Basically Richards played the last of the late breakers & had a very late lung under brakes at SKaife at Dandenong Rd Crn & locked it up & understeered off the track.

Skaife did not make any contract with him, rather himself dived on the brakes & watched the Team Dymnamic car side off into the sand & we all know what then happened.

Perhaps if Richards had of waited he would have blasted past Skaife down the front straight, but in the heat of the battle on the 2nd last lap I suppose it's either win & be a legend or lose & be forgotten.

Got to say it was a very brave move which on a dry track would have come off.

Oh well, at least it showed that TD does have the pace to mix it with the best & sure makes for an interesting Bathurst 1000 race in 4 weeks time.

cheers. :)

[Dingo]

If you want to complain about the length of the race, go complain to the EPA and/or local Sandown residents...wasn't it their complaints which forced a 4:45pm curfew on racing at Sandown in the early 1990's? Was it the 1992 race that Perkins beat Morris after they cut it 10 laps short?

[TIC-302]

Originally posted by the_goldie




TIC-302 - it wasn't 161 laps so what can you do?! If it was then maybe Team Dynamik would have won?!?! Alot of what ifs but that's motor racing........ what if it didn't rain - maybe then Team Brock would not have crashed out, what if Team Brock had pitted a lap earlier to get wets...what if the Shell cars didn't have a bingle... what if Richards waited another corner and the story goes on...


"What if Ingall didn't spin out" you missed that one son !


HRT had a lucky win, end of story !
not just because the SBR car spun out, but also for not getting a black flag for the rain light.

All the HRT supported are coming out of the woodwork like the Ford supported did last year.

Win No1, 2003 Clipsal 500, HRT won race 2 and won the round-- Ambrose out

Win No2, 2003 Sandown 500, HRT won the race and the round--
Ambrose out

Is there a patton there ?

:confused:

[Glen Alexander]

What are you talking about coming out of the woodwork? We've always been here, just defending the slander and crap that is being spoken about our team that's all. We HRT supporters don't just sit back and shut up while some of you Ford supporters with a brain the size of a Tic Tac talk rubbish!!! We stand up and fight!!!! capish?:)

[the_goldie]

Originally posted by TIC-302



"What if Ingall didn't spin out" you missed that one son !


HRT had a lucky win, end of story !
not just because the SBR car spun out, but also for not getting a black flag for the rain light.

All the HRT supported are coming out of the woodwork like the Ford supported did last year.

Win No1, 2003 Clipsal 500, HRT won race 2 and won the round-- Ambrose out

Win No2, 2003 Sandown 500, HRT won the race and the round--
Ambrose out

Is there a patton there ?

:confused:

Ok If Ingall didn't spin out it would have been an even better race as Skaife or Richards zoomed past the #4 car.

Come out of the woodworks? I didn't care which team won as long as it was a Holden. I was hoping that Richards passed him without taking both out. Sitting there saying don't take each other out... and what does he do - he almost takes both out but only takes himself out...

[TIC-302]

Alexender, your making yourself look stupid so quit while your behind !:D

I think HRT had a lucky win, I would have like to have seen
Team Dynamic win even though its a Holden.

If Ford wins Bathurst, you Holden Guys are gonna get it from me..

Bigtime..

:D and I mean BIGTIME !

[Elvis]

Originally posted by TIC-302



"What if Ingall didn't spin out" you missed that one son !


[B]HRT had a lucky win, end of story !
not just because the SBR car spun out, but also for not getting a black flag for the rain light.

All the HRT supported are coming out of the woodwork like the Ford supported did last year.

Win No1, 2003 Clipsal 500, HRT won race 2 and won the round-- Ambrose out

Win No2, 2003 Sandown 500, HRT won the race and the round--
Ambrose out

Is there a patton there ?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very funny and a great reply GLEN,keep it up--makes me laugh every time I read it.Capish!!


Dear TIC 302--I thought Marijuana was banned-you better stop smoking it ,especially before V8 supercar races.
Skaife/Kelly-Lucky win?Skaife should buy a lottery ticket because hes the luckiest man on earth--Bathurst victorys,Sandown,Touring car titles,man he must be on one helluva hot streak huh.

I think your wright,there is a pattern,Ambrose DNFs a lot,Remember when he got pole at Bathurst in his first attempt,only to bog it in the sand trap on the entry to the pit lane during the race???

HRT supporters have never been out of the woodwork,they stay loyal during thick and thin,Ambrose is having ONE great season and all of a sudden Fords have the best cars and drivers ever seen.Give me a break.

[TIC-302]

Elvis, the 70's done you good, get off the sleeping pills and wake up, and smell the coffee !

I said HRT had a lucky win due to electrical problems and he was lucky not to get black flagged.

I personally thing that Skaife will be the Greatest touring car driver in Australia, He is very close and has already equaled all the legends, Brock,Moffat,Richards,Jane,Johnson and he has only been racing competetively since the mid late 80's.


Bring on Bathurst !

[Ando]

WHAT IF.
What if the race was red flagged because of the hail or had to follow the safety car around until the finish.(Skaife Wins).
What if Richards managed to stay on but put Skaife into the sand, he would of been penalised anyway because he was going way to hot and lost it.(Ellery Wins).
What if Richards kept his cool for one more corner(Richards Wins)
What if the rain light was not pointed out by someone in the commentry box alot of you would not have much to gripe about as you would not of noticed it anyway, plus thier are discretionary rules that come into play as with most rule's in motor sport, such as the condition's at the time or being so close to the end and more importantly no other team made a complaint during the race.(Skaife Win's).
What If it was a beautilful sunny day and the race was not delayed (?????? Win's). Know let's get to the fact and fact is Skaife Won.
ANDO.

[SWRT]

If its true that HRT recieves 2 $7000 fines for the turning off the storm light and a pit safety infrigment that is not enough.
A 1 minute penatly or diqualification will have me satisfyed.
If Sandowns anything like Bathurst watch out for SBR,HRT,Supercheap auto,Team Dynamik,Kmart Racing and 888 motorsport at Bathurst as serious conteders.

[BATHURSTFAN]

I think the fine for Skaife is fair enough, but i believe they should have told HRT to put the rain light back on or come in and fix the problem.

[the_goldie]

Can anybody tell / show me where this rain light is on the car? I didn't even know it existed until Sunday. Is it similar to the speed limiter being on in pit lane, flashing brake light???

Can I check out my model cars to see it???

[BATHURSTFAN]

usually at the rear of the car on the boot, just a high intensity red light.

[Elvis]

Originally posted by TIC-302


[B]HRT had a lucky win, end of story !
not just because the SBR car spun out, but also for not getting a black flag for the rain light.

------------------------------------------------------------
Marijuana again-TIC??You said Skaifes lucky because of the rain light--As I believe Skaife turned it off himself-not as you say--lucky because an electrical fault,At least being a Ford fan you think Skaifes a great driver.

You also say HRTs LUCKY win (What if Ingall didnt spin)--What if Russell (Boofhead) Bingall had a brain and could drive-I notice Ambrose didnt have any problems driving.

If where going to keep this WHAT IF rubbish going-Ill have a try--What if T.Kelly didnt go off track TWICE,he would have lapped Ambrose/Ingalls car 25 times--How was that try!!

70s were great for me thanks ,1973 Aloha From Hawaii,watched in more American homes than mans first walk on the moon.Thankya very much.

[the_goldie]

bathurstfan - thanks. Is it near the brake light? I have never noticed another light.

[BATHURSTFAN]

in the middle - above where normally the number plate would be

[the_goldie]

Thanks again bathurstfan. Will have to check it out at Bathurst or on some pics :)

Elvis - throw this one in as well. What if it stopped raining and Bright stays out on slicks and does not have an off into the wall! He doesn't have to come back in to change from wets to slicks and gets a few laps up on the field...

Damn Team Brock... Hope they get all guns blazing for Bathurst!!! Have to have a word to Brocky at the drive day ;) lol

[Malik]

Goldie.. there is the rain light on the models too.. its right at the top center of the boot.. cant miss it.... (its bright red on the real cars after all.. its that thing that is flashing when they drive down pit lane at 40km/h)

and for all you 'what if'ers on this thread....

WHAT IF SKAIFE WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN!!! OR AMBROSE....


beat that....


and as for the freakin rain light.... if they wanna make a rule about it malfunctioning.. then it should be on its own power supply and not from the engine..

and as for skaife turning it off and breaking a safety rule.. what about the safety of keeping his windscreen wiper on so he could SEE and not spear into something cos his window was fogged and he was driving blind?

[Glen Alexander]

Hey TIC - TAC, I don't know who this Alexender bloke is, but I'm Alexander.:D He still sounds like a pretty top bloke if you ask me!!!!

Bring on Bathurst, if a Ford wins, Congratulations to them. It's been a long time between drinks for them and if they do they deserve it. But we can also dish out, so just be careful how far you go, because your half calorie insults might score you a barrage of offensive, yet clever, Holden style come backs that might hurt your feelings!!!!!!!!

[Road Runner 72]

Yes a wet cold "HAIL HURT MY EARS" day.
But had a great day, got there around lunch time, due to Ripping off my Muffler and exhaust on a rail road crossing. $200 :(
I take my hat off to all the drivers on the day, due to the weather, I would of hated driving in them conditions.

Sorry i didnt get to meet any of the people that was there.

Ive added a pic of the back of the HRT car for Goldie
;) I took it at the aussie gp.

Cheers

[Road Runner 72]

And another pic from Sandown, I was on the first corner of the track. its a sad photo for ford fans, sorry guys.

[Leigh]

Cameron,

As Bathurst Fan and Malik said the light in the middle of the boot is not a brake light, it is the rain light, which doubles as a flashing light when the pit lane speed limiter is applied. SBR have two, just in case one fails...maybe other teams should follow suit.

And for all you what-iffers...What if next years championship were cancelled because too many people couldn'y accept the results and it was easier to run a what if championship...give it a rest Skaife/Kelly and HRT put in a mighty effort and won...they may have breached a safety reg at the end (but incidentally so did many other teams) and should have been black flagged, but they weren't (and neither were anybody else)...as a famous Australian once said...

SUCH IS LIFE:eek:

PS RoadRunner, Shame about the exhaust...would have been good to say G'day.

Cheers

[Elvis]

Dont you get it??--its called Tall Poppy syndrome,some people cant handle that red car winning races.

Road Runner--Were they high railway tracks or do you have a Lowrider??

[TIC-302]

Cheeseburgers and sleeping pills hey ?

Its a bad combo!

Alexander, I love your work, i bet you use to get heaps at school!

[Elvis]

Originally posted by Glen Alexander
[B]Hey TIC - TAC, Alexander is a top bloke.

Bring on Bathurst, if a Ford wins, Congratulations to them. [


Hey Glenn,can you hear me!!Im a little out of it on sleeping pills so thats why I cant remember when Fords last Bathurst victory was..........Hang on a second,also include the Championship................thats if your V8 supercar history, book collection dates back to 1867!!!!!!

On a more serious note,it would be great if Ford could win at least one major prize-eg Bathurst or the Championship.

[TIC-302]

Champoinship would be nice.( Last one was in 1997)

Bathurst win, we need it badly!(last one was in 1998)

THe AU was a very unlucky car at bathurst

1999 Radisich/shell Ford , leading the race dropped its lunch on lap 149.

2000, Havoline Ford , longhurst, front wheel damage due to accident, he was also leading the race on lap 135, i think

2001, Gibson Motorsport, Lowndes, into the tyre barrier in the wet on slicks, he was leading the race on lap 89

2002, Ozemail Ford, jones, leading the race, suspension damage.

I hope 2003 is our year !:p

[Glen Alexander]

MMMMMMMMMMM Cheeseburgers!!!!

Actually I used to dish out a lot at school, always had a bit of smarta**e in me!!!! And to my surprise never had a fight in my life!!!!

Just watched the tape from the weekend, what an exciting race, the best all year so far. It had everything, four seasons in ten minutes, crashes, controversy, arguments between drivers. And the best part was Skaife finally got another deserved win!!! I really really can't wait for Bathurst, with Ford performing better this year it's gonna be one helluva race, it'll be a 1000km sprint to the finish. And it's only a few weeks away, better get my tent organised!!!

[SWRT]

Has HRT ever heard of a car cleaning product called Windscreen Anti-Fog Malik,or should you warn them about it if they have a similar problem again.

[diecastdude]

Yes Bathurst is looking more exciting this year with Ford being more competative but as an avid Ford fan I did have concerns with the sandown 500 prior to the race starting due to the two driver format and my concerns were made reality with Ingal letting down the team. I hope these concerns don't arise at Bathurst and if they don't it may very well be an SBR win ! but I do see Ingal as the weakest link.

[Glen Alexander]

Don't count out Ozemail Racing as serious Ford contenders.

Skaife's window fogged up because he had to shut down nearly everything in the car to keep the voltage up, that would include his de-mister.

[brchi17]

Don't forget DJR either, both of Dick's cars were very competative at Sandown & if it wasn't for the lap 4 insident, I'm sure both would have featured in the race for the podium.

cheers. :)

[TIC-302]

These days, its NOT who is the fastest that wins

IT'S

WHO makes the first mistake:mad:

[in1way]

WHAT IF there were NO SEVENTIES & NO MARIJUANA!!!
............................OH HEAVEN FORBID!!.......................You guys got any left? I just did my last number trying to make it through this thread..........:cool:

[the_goldie]

Originally posted by Malik
Goldie.. there is the rain light on the models too.. its right at the top center of the boot.. cant miss it.... (its bright red on the real cars after all.. its that thing that is flashing when they drive down pit lane at 40km/h)

and for all you 'what if'ers on this thread....

WHAT IF SKAIFE WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN!!! OR AMBROSE....


beat that....


and as for the freakin rain light.... if they wanna make a rule about it malfunctioning.. then it should be on its own power supply and not from the engine..

and as for skaife turning it off and breaking a safety rule.. what about the safety of keeping his windscreen wiper on so he could SEE and not spear into something cos his window was fogged and he was driving blind?


Thanks Malik - always thought it was just another Brake light and flashing light for the pit speed limiter being on...

I know where it is now ;)

[the_goldie]

Originally posted by Road Runner 72
And another pic from Sandown, I was on the first corner of the track. its a sad photo for ford fans, sorry guys.

Mike do you have a bigger shot of this? WOuld love it for my background - bring a smile to my face everytime I see it.

[oldxr]

To all you holden fans, remember the way you all went on about DJR winning at the Queensland 500 in 2001, don't start defending srt winning this year whislt deliberately breaking safety rules until you can except DJR winning then wilst sitting in the sand, but not breaking any rules.

[V8 fan]

Shane, if this is true, i hope that there will be a proper and full investigation into the matter. Skaife did have his lights off.
It was extremely unlucky for Richards, who, unlike Skaife, had a working car and realy deserved to win.

[the_goldie]

I agree with most about Skaife breaking the rules, but it seems that only a fine has been issued... what do you do? Life goes on...

I think it is pretty dangerous not to have the dimister or wipers working in those conditions. Is there any rule in regards to this? I would think this is more dangerous than a rain light not being on.

I would have liked to see Richards/Will win but it was not to be...

SWRT - if they have not heard of Anti-Fog I would suggest they get some before Bathurst.

[spoonster05]

I was working all weekend so have just finished watching the telecast of the race.

Pretty good race all in all, typical Melbourne weather though..

My TV coverage highlight ??

The Kmart crew standing at the rear of Murph's car with the race tape to tape the rear wing back on and Murph 'politely' telling them it won't hold...

[Malik]

I think whoever attaches the rear wings to the kmart cars is prolly in another job now after forgetting the lock tight on the danged BOLTS!...

considering the car wasnt damaged I think everyone is at a loss as to where those bolts went...

[wayno]

Probably inserted into the guy that fitted them by two very irate drivers post race!

[Malik]

I hope they remembered the locktight this time!:D

[Leigh]

Originally posted by Malik
I think whoever attaches the rear wings to the kmart cars is prolly in another job now after forgetting the lock tight on the danged BOLTS!...

considering the car wasnt damaged I think everyone is at a loss as to where those bolts went...

[sarcasm mode]
Gee KRT must be running out of staff, First they had to get rid of the man who calculates fuel load (remember Murph running out of fuel), then the refueller or was that the car controller? (Bathurst 2002) now the person who tightens the bolts...:D :D
[/sarcasm mode]

Cheers

[vt2envy]

Did anything happen over the incident as he was pulling in...They are normally pretty hot on anything happening in pitt lane..Just goes to show bad things can go in a instant..They also looked to be having dramas with the front right as well..