Yellow line drive trough

[ferrari fan]

First of all ,I am not a great fan of Lownes.
This yellowline drive trough is controversial to say the least.
This is enough to make followers switch off .
Holden dealer team does not need this sort of gifts and to penalise Lownes for this, in this sort of fassion, and on this GOATTRACK killed the real performance
how Lownes stayed calm and collected is beyond me
This form of motorsport is not being helped at all with this caper.
Adelaide streetcircuit is great and canberra backalleycircuit is bad
there are many purpose build tracks that are not used because of the ridiculos amount that the organisers want
this is bad and sad and could be the demise of this series

[v8coupe]

I think it stinks what happened to Lowndes and Bright, over the yellow line.
Boy that Skaife has some luck with the way things turn out.

[timbo]

I agree these stupid rules will make me switch Off.

[rusky26]

by nitpicking a rule the marshals managed to totally ruin a potentially good race. :mad:

[Martin Thomas]

1stly, Im not a Skiafe fan. But, if the rules arent applied, get rid of or change the rules. The rules did not hand Skaife the win, A (small) mistake by a couple of drivers did. A bit like braking a bit late might. I remember a couple of other races where the win was "handed" to Skaife, 1 where Lowndes braked late in the dying laps while Skaife was applying pressure and another where Bright was ahead of Skaife but skidded into the pit and lost time. Skaife came in, same crew performed the stop, Skaife came out in front.

If this year has shown me anything, its that Skaife AND HRT are a great team, Skaife is so cool under pressure compared to Bright whereas in the past I thought it was mainly HRT that was the difference.

How many teams have been penalised for a gun or a nut going over the line. They may seem like stupid rules but they are there for a reason and are the same for everyone. You can argue in the past it hasnt been this way, but this year I havent seen anything that says its inconsistant.

In a sport that is won by hundredths of a second, maybe crossing that line does give you an advantage.

I think a pitlane drive is too harsh a penalty for any breach, but I cant think of any other way to punish a team thats fairer.

To say HRT is too dominant is backward. Ambrose has been close so many times, then a wheel comes off, crew stuff up in the pits, clips something and wrecks a tyre. Its up to other teams to raise thier level. I dont see people asking Biante to hold back so CCs can compete...

By the way, Im not a HRT supporter, its Perkins for me..

[ferrari fan]

There is nothing at all that you post that is not correct other than your oppinion of you not able to think with another penalty than a drive through
this is what made the whole weekend a nonevent
the outcome of it all would have not been as predictable and also not only the weekend but the whole race year
I personaly did not watch today's event purely because of the penalty to ,in this case the fastest qualifier Lownes:rolleyes:

[thekid_600]

poor lowndes.......
the officials are just picking on the big names.
i bet if someone like paul morris or paul weel passed the yellow line, they wouldnt do anything.
apart from the fact that they dont get much TV time anyway.
it ruined a whole race weekend. i mean, lowndes finished 3rd overall even with that penalty. imagine how close the round would have been had he not gotten it. :mad:

[Aussiecollector]

Rules are rules, if there were'nt rules, then what's to stop someone taking some one out in a corner because they feel like it.

Its unfortunate that it was a front runner that got pinged but thats racing. And Ferrari Fan Canberra is no worse that Monaco and that track is still allowed to stay on the F1 Calender.

Without rules people get killed, the yellow line is there for a reason (safety) not to catch out OO motorsport or HRT.

All in all the race was not too bad given the type of track and weather. All the teams know this going to Canberra and its all about strategy, on this occasion HRT with Skaife had a good strategy and some luck.

On too Barbagallo and the dust, hopefully they will be more aware of the Yellow line.

Regards
Glenn
Racefan

[the_goldie]

I agree with AussieCollector. Rules are Rules and they are the same for everyone. They all know about the rules and if they don't then maybe they should read up on the rules.

Just like the reverse grid. I think this is ridiculous at Canberra where the racing is so tight. On a different track it may be better? But as we saw - Skaife stayed clean starting from the back of the grid and was PATIENT. He wasn't trying to win from the back of the grid he let the others battle it out and let them enter the smash up derby of Canberra! We saw that Bright had a chance to finish in a good position but he locked up the brakes and down he went ...

Ford and other Holden Teams just can't seem to match Skaife and HRT for the full weekend of racing. They may be the fastest that qualify but that is like saying a football team have the best Training Sessions! You have to perform when it counts and not just for a few laps here and there.

[ferrari fan]

Aussie conjector;
You obviouly never been to Monaco while the GP is there.
to make a comparison between the two is like comparing Dogpoo with Chocolade Canberra is the worst track, Monaco is sensational, particular for the spectators
I agree with the rules to be adhered but the penalty should fit the crime and this ruiined a potential good race contest

[Ando]

Having been at the pit exit at various times over the weekend i can assure you that every time a driver crossed the line,( there were plenty), they were black flagged. I was listening in to pit chat on the scanner and watching the marshall at that point at the same time and every time the rule was broken he would immediatley contact race control and that driver no matter who they were got the black flag. Most learnt their lesson in practice or qualifying unfortunatley Lowndes etc happened to do it in race conditions and paid the price. I can also point out it was strongly pointed out at the driver briefing the rules and the penalty for breaking them in regards to the pit exit as it is a difficult and tight part of the track. In my opinion ( and it is just my opinion ) the Ford guy's at the moment are doing everything to take each other out and making silly, costly mistakes making it far to easy for HRT and Skaife'y who to his credit is driving flat out and faultless. In regards to the guy who suggests Canberra is a goat track( get a life).
ANDO.

[wesley charles]

I've already emailed my opinion to the v8 super car sight and are looking to receive their responce , boy were they given a ear full over this Issue so watch out if you make dum comments on here
Out of all the people specifically involved or not who have anything to do with the v8 super cars seen on TV this weekend and that includes some of those who put their opinions across on this sight , their is only one who seems to be born with his brains between his ears and not between their bum cheeks, and that is Barry Sheen
Not only is his brains in the right place , he also has got some common sence to go with as well.
Those of you who argue along the point that these rules are there because their must be a good reason for them being there I have to agree with you.
Where races are determined by 10's of seconds made or lost here and there it is true that some drivers will attempt to get away with what they can , but thanks to this modern world of socialistic jargin were every one is to be !!seen !!to be equal , the rules have to be as such, just like the cars are.

My response is not one that is directed at those who are equal with the Barry Sheens of this world , but to those who have not a ounce of grace within their bones , the law makers the self righteous, the dot your tee's and cross your i's who pass judgement on all who break the law while they themselves do the same .
I hope the next cop that see's your car parked on the footpath books you lot for illegal parking.

Tell me this when a rule is made such as the one mentioned ,the yellow line one, and this goes for the stray wheel nut or tyre in pit lane as well , what advantage can be made or disadvantage can be caused to drivers or teams through the infringement of this rule .
Well I dont need you lot to tell me anyway, firstly if some one crosses the pit exit line by a fair good margin they may pick up a 10th of a second or so, and if some one's wheel nut rolls into anothers pit bay it may accidently be driven over by someone exiting or entering their pit bay causing a tyre puncture or in the case of a tyre , it may hinder their entry or exit from their pit bay loosing some valuable time. so this is some of the reasons why the rule is in place not to mention making room for on track cars as they exit the pit lane .
I dont think any one with their brains in the right place would need to argue with this seeing that every thing is now counted in 10'th of seconds , althought I would like to make good argument against and with good reason over the direction that v8 supercars has and is heading which has caused this rule to be inforced in such a rediculous way.

In the case over the week end involving Craig Lownds , Jason Bright and Russell Ingal plus a number of others who's tyres or wheel nuts rolled over a yellow line in the past ,they were penalized ,
Now this rule has been stringently enforced this week end with the intent to WHAT!! deture others from ever attempting to break it.
I dont think so , NO! the real reason I think is that the people who inforce these rules suffer the same sindrome as those mentioned at the start of this letter.
This rule should only be inforced where it is clearly visible that a team or driver has in some way advantaged , or disadvantaged another due to their actions in breaking the rule , nothing more nothing less .
As with the case with those who were penalized over the week end neither the above were brought into play .
We dont need to many brains to see that this is the way this rule should be written and inforced , so yes I attest to my case that people like Colin Bond and others alike including Mark Skaife who designed the stupid concrete car smashing cost adding circuit have very little between their ears ,as goes with the rest who reside down in Canberra.
This form of racing has become so rediculous in resent years that I can't under stand why people a lot bader than me dont just all begin a riot and jump the fence and stop the race in protest to these brainless idiots who are running these races.

[Senator1]

The rules & regulations are there for a specific reason,the drivers are reminded in their driver briefings if you break a rule you will be penalised, remember the only ones we usually hear about on TV are the drivers at the pointy end of the field, those midfield or down the back get very little TV exposure, so why would the commentators make the viewers aware of any penalties being incurred

[BATHURSTFAN]

I believe that they should fine the team in DOLLARS $$$$$ not in track time for failing to abide by the rules in some cases, as in the Bright and Lowndes case, in particular where no advantage has been gained such as crossing the yellow line and dropping an object into the pit lane etc.

The reason the races are held in capital cities I believe is because of the bigger crowds they attract, no one has to travel far out to see the race.

[mainforcepatrol]

Wesley:- your sentence structure is appalling, your spelling only marginally better, and your opinion leaves a lot to be desired. You, sir, are a moron.

[Aussiecollector]

Wesley Wesley Wesley,

What ever you are on my friend, I strongly suggest you give it a rest for awhile. The yellow line is not about who can save a 10th of a second as you put it again and again, its about those on one side of the line are supposed to be protected from the moving objects (the cars on the other side). Its about being able to come out of your allotted pit space without being cut off because some driver feels he/she is entitled to drive down the yellow line to get into their pit space.

As for Barry Sheen, I don't get it?

Ferrari Fan,
Your turn, Conjector is spelt, conjecture

As for the comment, “sensational for the spectators�, I don’t dispute that Monaco is a great place for a Holiday. I was talking about the race track and the cars that go around it, not the achitecture of the buildings and the harbour.

Regards
Glenn

[stonee]

Rules are rules, but the punishment to me, does definately not fit the crime in these cases.

[WESTY]

Gentlemen
please,please, such insults can not be good for your health !!

We have had morons , crap designed tracks , bagging Barry Sheen , rules being unfair , some people even saying they wont watch anymore.

What sort of motor racing fan would not watch it because of a rule which effects every driver.

Rules are rules get over it.
It might be harsh, but stiff , its there for all drivers.

Come up with a better rule and send it to the people who run the series.

I for one will be watching every time its on TV. wether I like any of the rules or not.
I like most of us I think , just love the racing.
:D

also if my spelling and grammer is poor "STIFF"

[Moffat Fan]

Yes guy’s rules are rules and nobody has a problem with them being enforced as long as they are applied evenly and the punishment is constant. The rules are put in place for two main reasons, safety or parity. Too limit the possibility of any person suffering injury or loss and prevent any person or team gaining an unfair advantage. As a regular competitor myself I am only too aware of the consequences of a breach of the rules and the effect they can have on others.

The yellow lines are there for one reason, safety. Safety for all competitors, officials, spectators, crews etc. If you cross the line you are entering an area that should be as safe as the rules allow and you increase the risk to yourself and others. The yellow lines in the pits are particularly important, from the pit entry apron to the end of the exit. Racecars, equipment, fuel, people and competitive spirit create a recipe for disaster. It must be controlled to an acceptable level.

Having said that the rules must be applied evenly and on this occasion were not. A number of cars were guilty of crossing the yellow control line and were not penalized. Collin Bond stated “the lines are there for a reason�. Yes all the yellow lines including the lines on the pit entry apron. The same line that M. Skaife crossed in race three and C.Lowndes crossed in race one etc. etc.

The pit entry is more dangerous than the exit and has a far greater risk for injury to crew and officials. But there was no official action taken for these or any other incidents relating to this line. Why?

Apply the rules evenly or don't apply them at all!
:(

[Hati]

Moffat Fan, I watched the race telecast but I missed Skaife driving over the yellow line. When did that happen? AND why wasn't he dealt with the same way as the other two?

[XR8]

Originally posted by WESTY
[^snip^
I for one will be watching every time its on TV. wether I like any of the rules or not.
I like most of us I think , just love the racing.
:D

[/B]

Racing??? Hardly seems like they do that anymore in this class.

The Fords are continually killing each other, if they do get any sort of advantage, they either stuff it, or get wiped out by a back marker..
The Holdens have complained about the Falcon's 'so-called advantange - which explains project "Blue-print" next year, what a crock of sh*t...
HRT continues to wipe the face of the earth with their endless suppy of money, mind you the boys seem to continually put in a great effort, I don't really think the racing nose is the be-all and end-all though..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time a car / team was so dominant, they either nobbled the Sierra's or changed the rules for the Falcons, and the same for the Nissan Skylines??

Reverse grids aren't a bad thing, I can't really see how they are a benefit at Canberra though. Too much damage to too many cars for my liking.

It's getting bloody boring...

Ed :)

[thekid_600]

Hati - SKaifey drove over the yellow ling in 2001 GMC400. but he didn't get penalised, along with a lot of the others who did the same. colin bond's reasoning was that last year's yellow line was much longer so they allowed some leniency.....
quite frankly i think that's a load of s**t. since when are rules given a little "grey area" where you can breach it?
if the same applied to pit lane speeding, does that mean you go over at 41, 42ks per hours without getting pinged? :mad:

[Hati]

Quote from Moffat Fan:
"Having said that the rules must be applied evenly and on this occasion were not. A number of cars were guilty of crossing the yellow control line and were not penalized. Collin Bond stated “the lines are there for a reason�. Yes all the yellow lines including the lines on the pit entry apron. The same line that M. Skaife crossed in race three and C.Lowndes crossed in race one etc. etc."

This is the part Kid, that I posted upon. I just wanted to know if I missed something on the telecast or Moffat Fan mistaken it for the rerun of last year's leanient yellow line= no problems thing.

[Moffat Fan]

If you have a chance to see a tape of the Sunday race's, after the penalties had been dished out on Saturday, Skaife’s right front and rear wheels crossed over the yellow line on the inside of the pit entry apron. This was after the 40kph-control line as you approach the pit proper.

This, I believe was the first stop in race three. It may have been race two but when I saw it I pointed it out to those watching it with me, my wife included (yes she’s back), who knows little about the rules. She also saw it and said, “how come he can cross the yellow line, what’s special about him?�

You may also remember that the commentators on Saturday in relation to the Lownde’s incident showed (a number of times in slow motion) the entry line being crossed by the 00 Falcon and believed (incorrectly) that was the reason for the penalty.

If you don’t have a tape it will be replayed on Foxtel. For those who have the time maybe we could play “spot the infringement� Remember the ground rules “ the lines are there for a reason (this year) and if you cross them you will be black flaged�. Yeah RIGHT
:mad:

[BATHURSTFAN]

To send a driver through pit lane for an infringement that involves no positional gain is stupid, like i said before, some infringements should incur a fine and/or loss of some points earned.

A driver who is at the back of the field who commits the same offence basically suffers no penalty, whereas a driver at the front of the field suffers greatly.

So someone running around last will still be last but someone who is in the top ten will be pushed right back for the same offence.

Is this fair treatment to all and is it worth stuffing up a good race when the infringement has no bearing on track position?

[Moffat Fan]

You are missing the point. The penalty (what ever it is) must be applied evenly to all that break it. CAMS and AVESCO stuffed up because it wasn’t!

[BATHURSTFAN]

I'm not missing the point, I was talking about the penalty for certain infringements in general.

For doing what Lowndes and Bright did, was it worth them being sent through pit lane? They come out of it much worse than someone at the back of the field who did the same thing and WHO WOULD STILL BE LAST AFTER COMMITTING THE OFFENCE and going through pit lane.

The drivers were told that THIS YEAR this infringement would be enforced as the line was shortened on exit lane. Why, I don't know.

But was it the entry or exit of the pits....

[Hati]

Stright from the horse's mouth (one gentleman who is a flagg marshal at some of the eastern states races):
" Apprently it was called in by the same bloke who called the other two. HOWEVER the boys in the tower, ie AVESCOn's trained monkeys, had no VIDEO evidence of it. So DESPITE the fact that there was a written report put in by this flaggie who saw it, countersigned by 2 other witnesses, it was not proceeded with.... Make of that what you will. In much the same fashion, I signed a report for the PI Romano/Forbes incident. Did I hear a thing, did I get a phone call?"

This is the replay I got from him when I mentioned Moffat Fan's observation.
It does seem that there is one rule for the leader and an other for the rest. Makes me very unhappy indeed.

[Martin Thomas]

At the end of the day Skaife won because;

1 Ambrose blew the start (again) then impatiently punted someone (again).

2 Ingall crossed THE yellow line.

3 Bright tried an impatient move on Richards and knocked them both back a few places.

4 Todd Kelly kept Lowndes from passing.

With all these theatrics behind him Skaife just had to keep out of trouble. You cant create rules to stop silly mistakes. If skaife Had a derated car and one hand behind his back, Ambrose would still be in the pits getting his front end straightened. Ambrose could be as dominant as Skaife if not for MISTAKES.

My only complaint is these bonus point rounds. Every round should be the same so one crash cant wreck your whole year. (Tander 2000)

[the_goldie]

Moffat Fan - I saw Skaife cross the yellow on entry and was also curious as to why he was'nt pinged. Both right hand side wheels were over... Oh well as they say read it in the papers... It's ashame they don't apply the rules to all.

"4 Todd Kelly kept Lowndes from passing. "
Martin - If Lowndes couldn't pass Kelly then don't you think Kelly was driving just as well as Lowndes? I heard them mention that Kelly was faster in one section and Lowndes was faster in another... therefore Lowndes would stay within reach of Kelly. If Kelly wasn't driving the correct line but trying to block Lowndes illegally then far enough but for Kelly to be able to keep driving under the pressure from Lowndes I thought he did a good job.

[thekid_600]

to be quite honest, i dont think lowndes would have been able to pass skaife if he had gotten past kelly and caught up to the HRT car. if he can't find a way past kelly, then fat chance he can find a way past skaifey.

also, confusion guys - lowndes and bright were pinged for crossing the yellow line on the EXIT i believe. NOT the entry. Skaifey and alot of the others passed the entry line numerous times.

[Martin Thomas]

Hope this explains what I mean. I dont think Kelly was doing any wrong, but meant with Him and Lowndes battling each other, Skaife had no pressure. Kelly being defensive would have certainly slowed him a bit. I think lowndes' experience showed as he applied pressure to Kelly but never looked like crashing. (unlike Bright) Good on Kelly considering its his first year as a full timer and his brakes were fading.

Skaife put both right wheels onto the yellow painted "medium strip" on his approach to his pit. No one else was pinged for that as far as I know. Wether or not there is a penalty for that I dont know.

[thekid_600]

i believe you are allowed to cross the median strip as long as it's a safe maneuvour. again, it's another grey area of the rules, and lets not start speculating about it. we all know there are a few unexplained rules out there. we've had this discussion before with the red flag. ;)

[Moffat Fan]

Originally posted by thekid_600
i believe you are allowed to cross the median strip as long as it's a safe maneuvour. again, it's another grey area of the rules, and lets not start speculating about it. we all know there are a few unexplained rules out there. we've had this discussion before with the red flag. ;)

To settle the argument!

From the CAMS 2002 Standing Regulations
7.3 Entrance to the pits
(i) The so-called “deceleration zone� is part of the pit area.

(ii) During the practice sessions and races, vehicle access to the pits is only through the deceleration zone. The penalty for breach of this rule may be exclusion from the session or race.

(iv) Except in the case of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), the crossing in any direction of the lines separating the deceleration zone is prohibited.

It also goes on to explain about the exit area and the same NO CROSSING rule applies.

It then lists the penalties for the breach, which include a one-minute time penalty or a drive through pit lane penalty.

The whole thing takes up one and a half pages but this is the guts of it.

The problem is it wasn’t applied evenly. It doesn’t matter whether we believe the punishment fits the crime or not either. They are the rules and as professionals they all know them.

Again it is all about safety and if somebody gets killed because somebody breaks the rule, it will make little difference to the family of the dead crewmember or official if it was a back marker or a top six runner.


:(

[ET351]

You've hit it on the head, Moffat Fan.

These rules are about safety. Having volunteered as a flag marshal and attended the drivers briefings at historic events, I can tell you at that level everyone is made clear on what is expected. I'd imagine this is tenfold at Supercar events, but unfortunately the stakes are higher, respect for cars lower, and egos are enormous.

As many here have acknowledged, it's the INCONSISTENCY of the application of rules that is the problem.

Cheers, ET

[BATHURSTFAN]

Yes the rules are about safety but also about providing a competitive competition.

I still say that the penalty for certain offences should not have a bearing on the outcome of a race. As in this case with Lowndes & Bright WHERE NO TRACK ADVANTAGE WAS GAINED.

A loss of points or a fine would have been sufficient AND THAT WOULD HAVE LET THE RACE RUN IT COURSE WITHOUT INTERFERENCE.

How many Officials have made mistakes during the race and a driver penalised by driving through pit lane and then later found out that the Official had made a mistake.

SOME penalties should be applied during the race no doubt, but NOT IN ALL CASES. Example: Because someone drops a wheel nut over a yellow line in the pits should not have a driver run through the pits as a penalty and change the outcome of a race.

And yes, consistency is a problem and I'm not saying NO penalty should be enforced its just HOW they enforce some infringements.

[wesley charles]

To Mainpatrolforce
I think the word you are looking for is ''more on , switched more on that is.
Obviously to me you are a modernist and probably still wet under the ears.
I can see that you made no attempt to challenge me in regards to my opinions of the Super car officials over the yellow line incident at Canberra, but only to engage in personal insult's over my spelling etc , etc which goes a long way in saying that you know very little about the subject of V8 Supercar racing .
To add to this, I obivously have touched a raw nerve of your's , the one which has'' pride '' written all over it .
I'm deeply sory that I have opened up such a wound,
May be next time I will waite to the race is over before I begin to type a email to the V8 Super car sight and press spell check before sharing the same subject on this sight.
OH! I better check my spelling

[wesley charles]

To Mainpatrolforce
I think the word you are looking for is ''more on , switched more on that is.
Obviously to me you are a modernist and probably still wet under the ears.
I can see that you made no attempt to challenge me in regards to my opinions of the Super car officials over the yellow line incident at Canberra, but only to engage in personal insult's over my spelling etc , etc which goes a long way in saying that you know very little about the subject of V8 Supercar racing .
To add to this, I obivously have touched a raw nerve of your's , the one which has'' pride '' written all over it .
I'm deeply sory that I have opened up such a wound,
May be next time I will waite to the race is over before I begin to type a email to the V8 Super car sight and press spell check before sharing the same subject on this sight.
OH! I better check my spelling

[Aussiecollector]

Your spelling, your grammer and don't forget your sentence structure.