View Full Version : v8 supercars with mitsubishi for 2006
dwarfs
22-07-2004, 03:59 PM
the word is going around that mitsubishi could be entering the v8 supercar series from 2006.
if this went ahead it would be holden vs ford vs mitsubishi.
I really dont like the sound of this because if mutsubishi entered v8 supercars would never be the same to me.
i like ford vs holden.
mutsubishi would just spoil the fun.:(
Kenseth17
22-07-2004, 05:09 PM
Ford vs Holden for me too.This is Australia/NZ and the majority of people want to see the 'local stuff'.If another manufacturer was to come in, then it would have to be classier than a bloody Mitsubishi.
roboneill
22-07-2004, 05:28 PM
if it aint broke, dont fix it i say...
be a joke if mitsubishi came in....
i know i wouldn't buy any of the models..lol.....
this is Oz, and has always been Ford vs holden when it came to V8 racing...
leave it as it is i say
biante1948
22-07-2004, 05:56 PM
Local stuff!!!!
Some Mitsubishsi are built in Adelaide - is that correct ?
Why have a 2 horse race?
I remember when Sierras and Skylines kicked Falcon and Holdens butt.
Sounds like some of you are against more competition.
If they abide by Project Blueprint, what harm can it do?
Maybe this is the reason Toni Cockroach is taking the V8 to China. There's always the bigger picture to look at.
PS. Yes. I know. The Sierra and Skyline were Turbos.
sarobinson
22-07-2004, 06:07 PM
I will be mighty upset in another car company was to try to come into our V8 Supercars. For the who want to watch fords and holdens race against mitsubishi then go and watch bloody Nations Cup. Don't change what has become so popular since only being ford and holden.
I don't care if they follow the rules of Project Blueprint or not just don't let anyone ruin what we all love!!!
Scott
I would not worry about Mitsubishi entering. I read very recently, in Motor magazine i believe, a spokesman for mitsubishi said they do not have the funds and will not in the near future to even try and enter the series. They said they will concentrate on rallying, and that v8s are pretty much off the agenda.
I was happy when i read that, i love the holden vs ford rivalry.
Esses
22-07-2004, 06:24 PM
Variety is the spice of life. I'd love to see some more makes in V8SC, much as I dislike Mitsubishi. It has NOT always been about Holden vs Ford in Aust. Motorsport. Which makes won the early P.I. 500's? Vauxhall & Mercedes. Since then many makes & models have achieved greatness in racing, 4, 6, 8, Rotary, Turbo & N.A.
Off the top of my head at Bathurst: Morris, Nissan, Jaguar, Cortina (4-cyl Ford), LJ Torana (6-cyl Holden) as well as the customary V8 Duo. Not to mention an honourable mention to the VALIANT Charger - in it's day the fastest-accelerating car in Australia, also over the 1/4 mile, GTHO Ph.3's eat your hearts out.
Come on guys, there's more to life (& racing) than Holden vs Ford, especially at the top level.
brchi17
22-07-2004, 06:27 PM
I'd believe it when i see it & I don''t recon it'll be happening in a long while. But then again, I didn't think we'd see the V8's in China & look what's happened.....:eek: !!!
If they've got the money, I'm sure TC will be happy to take it, regardless of what the heartland wants.
Sorry guys, I'll get off my soap box now.
cheers. :)
singer
22-07-2004, 06:42 PM
The more entrants the better. Roll on Mitsubishi(Bitsamissing) Lets get back to series production racing:)
brchi17
22-07-2004, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by singer
The more entrants the better. Roll on Mitsubishi(Bitsamissing) Lets get back to series production racing:)
hang on a minute, I think we've already got this, can't seem to remember what it's called but.........
cheers.:D
Kenseth17
22-07-2004, 07:13 PM
No one is arguing about what other makes have had in impact terms in Australian motorsport.The point is - You want production cars, either start another series or go back to the 80's/early 90's.Forgive me on this one but aren't the Aussie V8's the biggest thing Australian Motorsport has seen in a series in Australia? The crowd pull and marketing has had a massive effect on the sport as we know it, and it is getting even bigger.V8 Supercar is an Aussie product and AVESCO are taking it to Asia to spread this Aussie product.It's about what fans want to see and the fact that it's 'ours'.That's the point.
You remember what happened a few years ago with the 2.5 litre category? Nothing! Whilst it had it's place in Europe, people here want to see V8's and Holdens and Fords at that.
Why change what is getting bigger and greater?
As far as against more competition, christ it's more competitive now than it has ever been.
If you dare to dream running around in a V8 Mitsubishi, then that's your problem!
Nick Short
22-07-2004, 07:29 PM
My wife loves her (Adelaide-built) Magna, and I reckon a V8 version would look great! How many diecasts that Biante or CC have made are other than Ford or Holden V8s?
Kenseth17
22-07-2004, 07:44 PM
I believe the original idea of Biante was to produce Ford or Holden V8's.It has been plugged to an Australian market and of the two Nissan Skylines they produced, only the 1992 Winfield Bathurst winner is worth something.The 1991 winner is still going cheap.The next test will be to produce, say, the Moffat Mazda RX-7 of 1983 to see if it will sell.Problem being, it had cigarette advertising as well.The obvious money in models in Australia is for the Holden and Ford's but in time there may be more.
I think Mitsubishi had made a grave mistake with their new Magna.The front looks like it came off a snow plough.Probably the ugliest car I have seen in the recent past.
No offence intended to anyone who drives one, it's just my opinion. (and many others looking at the sales)
To each their own.:)
ferrari fan
22-07-2004, 08:20 PM
The new Bitsmissingy is indeed a VERY ugly thing .
The difference is that while you drive it yer canna sea da front, and drivewise she is a very nica one, better than the new HOLDEN;)
Nick Short
22-07-2004, 09:36 PM
The missus drives the older model, without the boggly eyes. I too don't like the new one and had forgotten it had been made. With RalliArt spoiler kit the older one looks pretty good, and a V8 would have been a welcome addition to the ranks, unless you're a "Ford and Holden only" punter.
Malik
22-07-2004, 10:30 PM
personally I dont like the idea.... but if it happens.. what can we do...
the one thing I remember is that currently Mitsubishi dont produce a locally made RWD V8 car...
Patterson
23-07-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by ferrari fan
The new Bitsmissingy is indeed a VERY ugly thing .
The difference is that while you drive it yer canna sea da front, and drivewise she is a very nica one, better than the new HOLDEN;)
No bitsamissin could ever be better than a commodore...:)
Prolly better than the falcon though...
As far as seeing them in the V8 supercars...I'd luv it...someone else for holden to beat....
And wouldn't it be interesting at Bathurst...how many magnas do ya reckon would make it to the finish??? I reckon close to none...
But seriously, I miss having the variation in the field...as much as I love holden Vs (flogging) ford, I used to love seeing all of the different types of cars lined up at the start...
Mitsubishi Motors are struggling to stay afloat let alone go racing.
The likelyhood of them entering V8 Supercars evapourated when Daimler - Chrysler decided not to bail out MM. Senior management has publicly
stated due to budget problems that there will be no V8 Supercar program
in the near future.
Maybe Toyota.....
Mitsubishi Motors are struggling to stay afloat let alone go racing.
The likelyhood of them entering V8 Supercars evapourated when Daimler - Chrysler decided not to bail out MM. Senior management has publicly
stated due to budget problems that there will be no V8 Supercar program
in the near future.
Maybe Toyota.....
Road Runner 72
23-07-2004, 01:21 PM
Oh what a feeling that would be. Toyota. come to think of it I got my licence in a toyota.
dwarfs
23-07-2004, 01:31 PM
after all the posts ive seen on this forum most people dont want mitsubishi in the v8s.
and im strongly against the idea of mitsubishi in v8s .
they look ugly.
would never make to the finishline (more saftey cars)
they dont have the speed .
some one should go see the manager and tell him to leave the v8 racing idea behind and f@#* off.:D
Tumbo
23-07-2004, 01:52 PM
Mitsubishi struggle in the wrc, they have no money- who cares if they want to go V8 racing...i mean its not as if we have to support them, and if all they are are backmarkers then what worry will they cause the Fords and Holdens....seems an awful lot of worry guys if you dont think they'll be competitive?
:confused:
9-3 Viggin
23-07-2004, 02:19 PM
BRING IT ON
As much as I'd prefer other makes than a Mitsubishi to join the V8 ranks, it's about time another manufacturer endeavours to flog the Ford & Holden cavalry.
stevelb1
23-07-2004, 02:35 PM
I reckon they should race with the Commobores and Falcons, the title is V8 Supercars so if Mitsubishi can field a V8 entrant good on them.
I can't find anything that says that the V8 Supercar Series is only limited to GMH & Ford. At least give them ago
dwarfs
23-07-2004, 02:40 PM
it might of sounded like it in my last post but mitsubishis are ok .
its just that i dont want them th enter the v8 supercars.
i like the ford holden challenge.
a true v8 fan would know what i mean.
cheers
Gan88
23-07-2004, 02:42 PM
Ford vs Holden doesn't benefit automotive consumers.
I don't know which is the best car to buy after watching a V8SC race. But watching a production car race is interesting because everything like road holding, tyre wear, fuel consumption will be similar to what one experiences in real life.
The Ford vs Holden thing started with production cars. Only back then, the country was more accepting of other cars and everything from Jags, Porsches, and the humbe Toyota got a go.
stevelb1
23-07-2004, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by dwarfs
it might of sounded like it in my last post but mitsubishis are ok .
its just that i dont want them th enter the v8 supercars.
i like the ford holden challenge.
a true v8 fan would know what i mean.
cheers
I dont know how to take that last bit of your post "a true V8 fan would know what I mean" Ive probably have more years driving V8 cars and following V8 racing than your had hot dinners.
You dont have to be a genius to relise that the sport and the Australian Motor industry in general can only benieft from other car makers entering the V8 series.
The Commodores and Falcons are so similar at the moment that injection of new bloody can only help brake the incestuous feel of the racing at present.
dwarfs
23-07-2004, 03:12 PM
true.
but the v8 supercars has just been ford vs holden for a number of years.
why change it now and lose alot of fans and support.
it should stay ford vs holden from now till end.
stevelb1
23-07-2004, 03:18 PM
Dwarfs,
As you stated before, a true V8 supporter wouldn't care what went around as long as the cars are competitve, that can't be said for some of the teams now, GMH or Ford, they seem to be there to fill up the numbers on the starting grid.
9-3 Viggin
23-07-2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by dwarfs
true.
but the v8 supercars has just been ford vs holden for a number of years.
why change it now and lose alot of fans and support.
it should stay ford vs holden from now till end.
.............and hence we'll see its demise. It's inevitable.
dwarfs
23-07-2004, 03:31 PM
9-3 viggin :
would you like to see mutsubishi race in the v8s .
if yes why ?
9-3 Viggin
23-07-2004, 03:39 PM
A Mitsubishi...........no.
Another marque.........yes.
Ford and Holden forever? - it's like living on bread and water for the rest of your life.
9-3 Viggin
23-07-2004, 03:41 PM
I don't dislike either Ford or Holden. Infact, I used to drive and own Holdens in the past. I like variety, and can only agree with Gan's and Steve's thoughts.
Bring back the ATCC, and I'll be happy.
dwarfs
23-07-2004, 04:35 PM
sorry not superman.
9-3 Viggin
23-07-2004, 04:47 PM
Too bad hey.
ferrari fan
23-07-2004, 04:50 PM
Just look at the footage of the olden races on the mountain, when Mini's, volksie's, Zephers, Monaro's, Cortina's, Flagons etc, etc, were doing battle on hallow ground, them were the days, and let's bring on the Mitsy's Toyo's and what ever else they care to stuff a V8 in, dump the exhausts and let them roar!
dwarfs
23-07-2004, 04:58 PM
yeah saw a video on the early v8s.
a mini flipped and the roof disappeared.
not something you intend to see but it all good.
I've said this before, but what would happen with the grid?
If other manufacturers entered, would this mean some teams would have to move to another car? I can't see many teams wanting to do this, unless they are doing extremely bad and want a change. Then again, this would stuff around sponsors and cause all sorts of problems.
Or, make grids bigger so they can fit more cars or other fiddling. I really, really don't think another manufacturer is need at the moment, maybe i'll change my mind in 6 years or something.
stevelb1
23-07-2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by 9-3 Viggin
Bring back the ATCC, and I'll be happy.
Amen to that brother, the grass roots racing.
stevelb1
23-07-2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Mux
I've said this before, but what would happen with the grid?
If other manufacturers entered, would this mean some teams would have to move to another car? I can't see many teams wanting to do this, unless they are doing extremely bad and want a change. Then again, this would stuff around sponsors and cause all sorts of problems.
Or, make grids bigger so they can fit more cars or other fiddling. I really, really don't think another manufacturer is need at the moment, maybe i'll change my mind in 6 years or something.
Dont you remember the days when the grid went around Murrays Crn and up Conrod Straight to the last hump, always had full grids with some teams even missing out through mot qualifying, two horse races get very boring after awhile.
roboneill
23-07-2004, 05:37 PM
isn't there a series already that promotes this type of racing of all manufacturers...Procar production series or something...
if it was the way to go, then that series would be bigger than the V8SC series, but it aint...
leave it the way it is...make sure we dont go down nascar path though...
i think at the events like sandown and bathurst though they should let the konica boys join in...
if you prefer to ahve all makes in a series go watch Procar production class....
singer
23-07-2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by roboneill
isn't there a series already that promotes this type of racing of all manufacturers...Procar production series or something...
if it was the way to go, then that series would be bigger than the V8SC series, but it aint...
leave it the way it is...make sure we dont go down nascar path though...
i think at the events like sandown and bathurst though they should let the konica boys join in...
if you prefer to ahve all makes in a series go watch Procar production class....
I would if they'd telecast a full round rather than selected highlights:(
roboneill
23-07-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by singer
I would if they'd telecast a full round rather than selected highlights:(
case closed really....just proves my point...which series has a bigger pulling power...
ferrari fan
23-07-2004, 07:40 PM
No it has not, The cockroache has got the TV rights sown up and milks it for all it is worth and then some.
Whatever series get the most (TV)publicity will win.
The Historics are wanted ,but without Big$$ they will not get on the screen, SADLY.
Look at the enormous succes of the AMC mag! even without publicity, that is why a lot of us missed out on the early editions.
The Superbores are broadcast by a COMMERCIAL Broadcaster!!
Whatever series pays the mo$t,.... wins, NOT who is the most interesting.
Same with the paralimpics.
singer
23-07-2004, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by roboneill
case closed really....just proves my point...which series has a bigger pulling power...
Not really, The agreement made by TEGA & AVESCO both have the the telecast rights & lengths of broadcast so the broadcaster has to televise the whole of the round under the agreement. The Ten Network has made a point of becoming the Motorsport Channel & the others used to have the Football rights. Now that TEN has AFL rights, we may see a change. The 7 Network used to cover most of the motorsport with the exception of F1.
roboneill
23-07-2004, 07:54 PM
rightly so, and the networks are only going to pay the big dollars for series and events they know will re-coup their money..
it wouldn't matter what cochrane wanted, if it wasn't going to bring the dollars in for the network they wouldn't spend it...
the v8sc series is more marketable than the other series and the network knows it...as it plays on the holden vs ford battle which has been tradionally the v8 war...
every cried blood when it was group a, people wanted back that holden vs ford battle hence the way the series has gone....the series had become a farce and numbers were down, thats why group a didn't last.
for the other manufacturers it has been about rally for the jap brands or european events. ..
anyway it ios just my opinion that i think leave the v8's holden vs ford...if you want multi manufacturers then watch the production class groups....
as for historics i think you will find they will start to get some more airplay, but it was a different time back then when they raced and completely different to the v8sc series now...
inter
17-10-2004, 07:48 PM
Now Toyota want to enter the v8 fraternity.
They will have Tony cochranes backing??????
inter
singer
17-10-2004, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by stevelb1
Amen to that brother, the grass roots racing.
Wonders will never cease! We agree:D
toddy05
18-10-2004, 03:20 AM
You know let's be honest here: the only thing Holden about the Holden's on the track is the body shell. The engines are Chev, the diff and suspension are all Ford based and they really are not dissimilar to the Fords accept for their bodies, engines and aero packages, heck even the Ford engine is not available in an Oz production car just like the Holden one is not either.
Why don't we have a 'control' engine, gearbox, diff, suspension configuration and chassis and just have whatrever manufacturer's body on top of it. That would make it interesting.
We have pretty much gone back to the Big Bangers (minus all the little categories) that racing tried so desperately to get away from in the 80's when they went to Grp A. The things on the track barely resemble what is in the showroom and cost 10 times as much. Australia has always loved racing that has vehicles of f the showroom floor.
Why are we so scared of other makes entering, doesn't it just give Holden and Ford and their cohorts the chance to prove how superior their cars, engineering and drivers really are??????
Leigh
18-10-2004, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by Gan88
I don't know which is the best car to buy after watching a V8SC race. But watching a production car race is interesting because everything like road holding, tyre wear, fuel consumption will be similar to what one experiences in real life.
So race suspension (modification for extra camber adjustment), race tyres, modification of weight, roll cages, mildly re-worked motors, removal of rev limiters, modified exhaust, etc etc equates to real world road holding, tyre wear, fuel consumption etc...
And this is just a general selection of what is (was) allowed to be changed in the PROCAR GTP category...one of the most road-based categories in the world...
With Mitsubishi about to join the likes of Bolwell etc, and Toyota's complete disinterest in the V8's, don't expect either of these two in the category in the near future...
Look a little further abroad...the rules WILL be re-written to remove the "must be built in Australia" tag...
There are 24 other brands sold in Australia that are not made here...think a bit laterally...who has supported Australian Motorsport continuously for 10-15 years...but due to the collapse of another category, may not get a guernsey next year (in race mode anyway...);)
Monaro Maniac
20-10-2004, 04:48 PM
Tony Cochrane has done a great job but this is a bad idea. Remember when it was decided that group A was the way to go or the 2Litres. Come on learn from past mistakes. If this was what the motering public wanted then the production cars would be topdog and the Supercars would just be a support category. Two tribes- no more.
There's a good article in Motorsport News magazine at the moment, cocerning this.
Mitsubishi and Toyota do not seem to be in the slighest interested, Mitsubishi are dedicated to their rally program.
Holden and Ford also do not like the idea, i really can't see this happening for a long time, if ever. I cannot say i'm disapointed about that, i'd like it to stay Holden vs Ford.
GRPIII
20-10-2004, 07:24 PM
if avesco gets it way & has the competition opened up to other makes, i think will see a rebel series run by ford & holden, there the companys & people who have spent a fortune getting the sport to were it is today.
Malik
20-10-2004, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by GRPIII
if avesco gets it way & has the competition opened up to other makes, i think will see a rebel series run by ford & holden, there the companys & people who have spent a fortune getting the sport to were it is today.
considering aussie motorsport has to be approved and sanctioned by CAMS... I cant see them allowing a rival series to be run in competition with AVESCO.. not while Cochroach is in their pockets.
mick78
21-10-2004, 07:33 AM
With Mitsubishi looking shakey long term, Toyota not interested in V8s - is it time to revisit having a separate class included in the races? Surely there is enough interest from the backward cap brigade for a sort of 4 cylinder supercar class. Would Corollas, Astras etc with big wings like the V8 be a crowd puller. It would at least add a bit of variety to Bathurst and other long distance races. The Fords and Holdens are great, but wouldn't a little variety make it a better spectacle and perhaps widen the appeal from Ford v Holden while keeping that racing for outright honours intact. Is Tony Cochrane so two-dimensional that he cannot see that this could work? After all all the great Bathursts of years past had quite a number of classes and were very popular.
Dingo
21-10-2004, 07:58 AM
This old chesnut has been done to death. Do not expect any new manufacturer to come into the series anytime soon:
Holden and Ford like their series too much to let an interloper come in and take the glory away from them
The vast majority of fans would rebel if a Mitsubishi or Toyota won any races, let alone Bathurst (remember 1992?)
There's far too much marketing $$$ invested in a Holden v Ford battle to start having Holden v Ford v (insert third party here) mess up the system
TC would make it almost impossible to allow these third parties to enter the series
Is there any real indication that Mitsubishi/Toyota/etc. are even interested in running a V8 Supercar programme?
At the end of the day, we can debate this all we like, but the point is that as long as TC, Holden, Ford and the corporate dollar all want a two-manufacturer parity-based entertainment package, then that's all we'll get.
Leigh
21-10-2004, 08:21 AM
92 was not about it being a Nissan, but more about the way Nissan went about making the car and that the car crashed and never crossed the line...
I guess a long term (or mid term) potential threat is that Ford may at some time in the unforseeable future stop making a V8 Falcon, or even a Falcon at all. Then it would become a one make series.
I know this seems far fetched to some but I wouldn't bet against it as Ford is forced to consolidate globally.
Kenseth17
21-10-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by toad
I guess a long term (or mid term) potential threat is that Ford may at some time in the unforseeable future stop making a V8 Falcon, or even a Falcon at all. Then it would become a one make series.
I know this seems far fetched to some but I wouldn't bet against it as Ford is forced to consolidate globally.
I would say it is far fetched to most, including Holden fans.Whilst Ford may be having to consolidate itself in certain areas in the motoring world right now, there is no way on this earth that they will stop making their Falcon V8's right now or in the distant future.The market in Australia is huge right now for the Falcon vs Commodore fight and the push that comes from the V8's getting bigger and bigger will not see this happen.In a nutshell, this is a stronghold for Ford here in Australia compared to Ford in other parts of the world.When Ford stopped building the V8 here in the mid eighties, it was a much different time and a much different world.
Things here for Ford and Holden will only get bigger for quite some time and I too am happy with that.
:)
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