What is the future of H.R.T.? [Archive] - Biante Model Cars

ferrari fan

11-09-2002, 07:31 AM

My question is "What is the future of HRT ", now that there is a Bankruptency case running in the courts in Leeds ,UK.?
With 5 or 6 more creditors linning up to be paid by Tom Walkingshaw ,known, including Jos Verstappen, Heinz Herald Frenzen and N. Lauda for Cosworth ,It is not looking very healty for this individual. Also over his head is the F1 governing body who wants to see two cars compete under the concorde contract with heavy fines for not turning up,already 3 races waged.
Plus an inmediate revoking of the franchise if found insolvent!
Well done Tom! It is not looking very good.
HRT is part of the company of this individual and it can not be a healty scenario with a lot of money needed for the longdistance season.
Is a Firesale coming up? Team Brock is looking better by the day!

loste_treasures

11-09-2002, 12:57 PM

with all the success of the HRT, i dont think that Holden will allow that to happen. We all remember the saga with HDT. Worse case scenario is that Holden will take over the HRT and race it under its own banner.

Im not sure who actually owns the words 'Holden Racing Team' though.

Either way the HRT (and HSV - which Holden owns) has been a big success story for Holden and HSV. Remember the old saying "What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday". The equates to big dollars for Holden.

Aussiecollector

11-09-2002, 03:36 PM

Toms, Not broke just the Company "Arrows", he's not stupid. I doubt that the Arrows Company or any other of TRW's business's are directly connected to HRT. HRT may have some imput and some cash from TRW but it generates a fat load of cash right here in Australia.

So don't worry FF "HRT" will be around for a while yet.

I would say 10 Championships in a row is very possible.

Cheers

Glenn

I can hear all of the ford replies NOW!!!

ET351

11-09-2002, 07:31 PM

Ferrari Fan,

Doctors have advised that Hormone Replacement Therapy can still be used, but not for prolonged periods.... what.... wrong HRT?? Oh, bugger... :p

But seriously, Aussiecollector made some valid points. Big Tom is supposedly an astute businessman, and astute businessmen don't usually end up broke (themselves, that is).

Another thing to consider... just what involvement/influence has TWR had over/with HRT in the last couple of years? I think the HRT operation is miles in front due to its resources, professionalism, skill and talent.

Just my opinion (as a Ford fan, too). I don't have to like 'em, but I do respect their achievements.

Cheers, ET351 (perhaps soon to be ET5.4!)

SWRT

11-09-2002, 08:28 PM

With Arrows turning up to GP's and miising out on the qualifying sessions or purposly getting under the 107% cut Arrows are recking F1's reputation.
TWR stuffed up BTCC,currently V8 Supercars and embarrising F1.

Aussiecollector

12-09-2002, 05:29 AM

How is V8 Supercars being stuffed, is it not competition to be the best and to win, all this crap about parity and allowing a fair share of the winning is not a competition its a rigged event. if you want to go racing and you have the dollars and the resources of course you will be in front. They are not cheating they are just good at what they do and have made the most of the rules and the resources at hand.

Crowd numbers are still up TV is still up and merchandise is off the scale for all teams.

Some of you really need to wake up and get the big Ford chip off your shoulders. Do you really want a championship were the operators dictate who wins and who comes second. May as well have two series running parallel one for Ford and one for Holden some each will win and nobodys will complain, BOOOORRRING.

The best team wins, its that simple and at the moment that team is HRT.

Glenn

Richard Poole

12-09-2002, 07:44 AM

Either way the HRT (and HSV - which Holden owns)

Holden don't own HSV. TWR Australia own and run it as a totally seperate company.

brchi17

12-09-2002, 10:42 AM

i've been reading in another forum that there may be some changes to HRT as we currenty know it but we'll have to wait until a decision is made regarding how many cars a team can run in '03.
That forum suggests that Bright is going to run a single car CAT TWR Commodore (similular to the K-Mart set up) with Skaife leading HRT with a junior driver and the K-MArt remaining the same with HYL going to run Konica with Nathan Pretty.

It also suggested that Paul Wheel was switching side as well as the Betta Team - not sure on this one.

My information is 3rd hand and may not be true and as previously stated i read it on another forum.
cheers,

Grubby

12-09-2002, 12:22 PM

Brchi17

Very interesting info.

Which forum did you read this on ?

Grubby

brchi17

12-09-2002, 12:33 PM

Found out this information on conrod.com.au
cheers,

Grubby

12-09-2002, 12:34 PM

Thanks very much..........have to go for a look

Grubby

SWRT

12-09-2002, 04:38 PM

I don't know how Aussiecollecter can say V8 supercar racing is fine the way it is now.
Honestly how many people can put up with any more?
TWR made BTCC boring and too expensive and I'm not sure what caused DTM to finish up in 94 or 95(someone fill usm in on this one) and are annoying Bernie E currently and may get a giagantis fine?
Now I come to V8 supercar,currently TWR have won nearly all events exept for Phillip IslaND race 1 and Canberra race 2(reverse grid) and both times TWR #1 Skaife complained about blocking.
SBR with Ambrose are the only real threat to TWR Aus but on most occasions it's been Ozemail racing,00 motorsport or SBR right behind TWR cars and NOT other HOLDEN teams exept for the odd race or 2.
I know people like to support the winners but I'm glad Brock's going to get the spotlight of TWR at Bathurst.
Can't wait for 00 motorsport to be Prodrive V8 supercar motorsport.

SWRT
GO Mak and Solberg for Rally Oz(SWRT is a Prodive motorsport team)

ferrari fan

12-09-2002, 07:02 PM

One Very Senior official here in WA ,who is a friend of mine ,has told me that HRT is being favoured to the max and he is sick of it.
Look at the advantage skaife all of a sudden got with the poitsstops here in Perth, This is not possible. and further more how they grabbed Tander when he was in front in a race in Adelaide.
Don't ask me who it is but it is a senior official and not a Marchal
The whole supercarscene is going nowhere in the longer term.
People who think otherwise can be dissapointed .
This was why I did like the Sandown round of last week!

admin

12-09-2002, 07:08 PM

Being sponsors of 8 teams, I have to very politically correct in what I say, but I am an individual who watches the sport, so surely I can have a say.

I think with less than 1 second between the cars in practise, parity is rubbish. It is not as though they can race around for hours and finally crack a good time. There are limited laps for practise and yet ALL cars get within 1 second.

So whats the difference? In my humble opinion, the crew. And that includes from the very top down to the helmet cleaner.(apologies to the helmet cleaner)

In a 20 lap race with a potential maximum 20 seconds covering the WHOLE field at the end of the race, a dropped wheel nut which costs 5 seconds, takes a minimum of 5 laps to catch up. And that is assuming you can actually muscle your way past other cars. An off into the grass or even a spin, costing 10 seconds pretty well ends the day.

I would say on 4, maybe 5 occassions this year a Ford could have won, except for a gammut of small errors costing them valuable seconds.

I would suggest you could swap the top 10 cars around and providing the crews and driver stayed paired together, Skaife, Bright, Kelly and Murhpy will be in the top 5 no matter which of the top 10 cars they are in.

And this is not a 'shot' at the other crews..its just that the 4 TWR cars have 4 crews who know each other, react to every situation together and have been "a team" for a while. I haven't forgotten HYL, but they will be the first to admit they and Rick are a new combo, but boy, are they learning fast and soon there will be 5 to beat.

But eventually, like in all motorsport, perhaps they will be beaten. Willaims won everything for a couple of years, McLaren took over and blitzed them and now Ferrari are "The" team to beat. Sure Shuey is good, but its the team, which he is but one of, that has turned a from a disorganised band of guys into a well oiled machine. Michael will never win a race if the wheel falls off!!

Thats my two bob's worth.

SWRT

12-09-2002, 07:34 PM

here's an idea to stop ferrari's F1 domination......
reverse grid F1 races putting Webber and Yoong in front,
Now that would make it less boring.

admin

12-09-2002, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by SWRT
here's an idea to stop ferrari's F1 domination......
reverse grid F1 races putting Webber and Yoong in front,
Now that would make it less boring.

For 16 laps!! 5 seconds difference x 16 laps equals average 1min 20sec lap.
Then it would be Ferrari, Ferrari, Williams, Willaims, McLaren, McLaren.
Ho Hum.

ferrari fan

12-09-2002, 08:04 PM

How I would/will like to see Webber in a competative car! in a Jaguar with a real ford engine ,which at the moment is not at all competative but ford have dominered F1 before and could do it again! Never seen a dominant General Motors engine in F1 other than the Repco Brabham dirivative (if it was a GM product,I am not sure.)
Maybe this will happen with Paul Stoddart being able to find the money for Ferrari to supply the engines!and keep Webber with Minardi ,that is something to cheer fore in my book!!!!!!
F1 boring? not for the interested folowers like me, that do more than just watch the racing on Telly
F1 is the top of the tree of motorsport .full stop.:D

Aussiecollector

12-09-2002, 08:48 PM

SWRT, I thought we were discussing V8 Supercars, Now its F1. In F1 its not the cars or the teams that make some races boring its the tracks.

To enjoy F1 you have to appreciate every aspect of the sport not just who comes first or second. Its the spectacle and the amount of effort and money that these teams will throw at the sport in an effort to be No.1. At the moment the sun is on Ferrari, for a decade it was Mclaren and Williams. Who knows with good money and motors next year it may be Jordan or Toyota.

Peter Brock was talking to my brother at his home last month and Dean asked him "why is HRT so much better" PB said their not they have us all bluffed we all have the same rules and bits they have made better use of them and they have the drivers.

FF, a Jaguar competitive thats and oxymoron. I doubt it will be next year, I hope Webber can get a competative drive next season, Jaguar is still looking most likely but a toyota or Sauber would be good for him.

Looking at the turmile at Jaguar he might be better off at Minardi if they can get the Russian Money.

Glenn

oldxr

13-09-2002, 07:14 AM

Don't know what all you other FORD fans are bleeting about the TWR V8 Championship is just fine, (the v8 superbores is STUFFED)
I have been a DJR fan for 23 years but have nearly no interest in the current championship format in recent years, yes TWR has stuffed this series when people like me are turned off, there are a lot more like me out there, and ADMIN, there is only a percieved parity, when Ambrose can stay on the back of Skaife but not have anything left for a pass but Skaife can easily catch and pass Ambrose at will then i supose if you call the parity then we now know why there there are more TWR Biante models than all the other V8 teams put together.

p.s. and now for my banning from the forum!
BYE ALL.

Richard Poole

13-09-2002, 07:27 AM

admin

13-09-2002, 08:15 AM

OldXR ,maybe you have stopped watching. I have seen HRT cars overtaken this year on several occassions and I am sure I have seen Ambrose on pole.
I am personal friends with the majority of the teams we sponsor and manufacture models for and some like Brad Jones we have been making models for for 5 or 6 years.
For your information there are more Fords than Holdens being made this year, if you leave out the one off Brock #05 car.

brchi17

13-09-2002, 08:21 AM

here's me 20 cents worth on this subject.

I read a couple interesting articles in the Hearld-Sun newspaper over the past couple of weeks which might shed some light onto the reason why HRT is so dominate.

Paul Glover, test drove Ambrose's Falcon at Winton a little while ago and if i remember right, he said that he was struggling to drive it after 4 laps of Winton.

A couple of weeks late he drove Skaife's Commodore and after 10 laps of Calder he was called into the pits and told to get out. And that in lies the HRT secret - driveability!!

If a newspaper journalist (he did race - be it quite a while ago) struggles to drive 4 laps in a Falcon, but can do more than 10 in a Commodore, it no wonder why the're winning.

It has oftern been said that the Ford drivers are 'snatching defeat from the jaws of victory' but what else could you expect if you've got a pig of a car to drive. It's a proven fact that the Falcon is just as fast over 1 lap, however over 20, 30, etc, it just dosen't cut it.

For the record - I support DJR and have for the past 26yrs.

GTSCoup

13-09-2002, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by oldxr
Don't know what all you other FORD fans are bleeting about the TWR V8 Championship is just fine, (the v8 superbores is STUFFED)
I have been a DJR fan for 23 years but have nearly no interest in the current championship format in recent years, yes TWR has stuffed this series when people like me are turned off, there are a lot more like me out there, and ADMIN, there is only a percieved parity, when Ambrose can stay on the back of Skaife but not have anything left for a pass but Skaife can easily catch and pass Ambrose at will then i supose if you call the parity then we now know why there there are more TWR Biante models than all the other V8 teams put together.

p.s. and now for my banning from the forum!
BYE ALL. I actually thought there were more TWR Biante models than other teams because they are the two most popular teams. They all seem to sell pretty well.

I guess you would have loved the touring car championship when DJR was dominating then wouldn't you.

When (IF) a Ford team gets up and does things as well as HRT then we will see that there has been no special treatment, HRT have just been able to use what they have available better than anyone else.

And before you say it, I am not a HRT fan. I swapped over to Ford when they picked up Lowndes.

Damian

13-09-2002, 08:43 AM

I remember watching RPM a couple of weeks
back when they had a segment on
CRAIG & SPENCER LOWNDES where each were
given a passenger veiw on their respective
cars being V8'S & RALLY. When Craig was driving
the Falcon he mentioned that the hardest thing to do was to get the front of the car to turn into
the corner. once you did this it was O.K.
He also said that this is where the Commodore had the edge.

Graeme

13-09-2002, 01:42 PM

Regardless of Arrows woes, I'm sure that Uncle Tom has TWR structured in a legal capacity such that the failure of part will not bring about the failure of the whole.

You've got to rate ADMIN's comments as Trevor and Richard have insights to V8 Supercar that we mere mortals can't possess.

Obviously, HRT have been using Biante's resources to develop that winning edge. HRT may have a huge budget, but they are obviously using the money wisely - their boss is after all a canny Scotsman - by having Biante do all their advanced engineering on cost effective 1:18 scale models.

Can't you just visualise those prototype VY Supercar models whizzing around that 1:18 scale Bathurst track somewhere hidden inside a Chinese factory - hows that aero package performing ???

Seriously though, ADMIN is on the right track when they say HRT has a thorough package . To win these days when ontrack times are so close, you need a good car, good driver, good strategy and good pitwork.....did someone say Ferrari F1 ???

toecutter

13-09-2002, 02:25 PM

All ages love motorsport. Hope the picture works.If not, how do you post it. Throught the attach file?
Thanks.

Nick Short

13-09-2002, 11:21 PM

I don't know a huge amount about TWR, but they are just down the road from my house and I was there last weekend - they're doing fine! Tom has his fingers in an awful lot of pies (over recent years Aston Martin, Volvo, Jaguar, Arrows, Nissan (he sold the XJR9 design to Nissan, Porsche and Mazda!), Rover, Gloucester Rugby Club, Benetton, Ixion Cars, Oldsmobile, Mitsubishi, Kenny Roberts, and HSV among others). His stake in Arrows is (or was) a personal one rather than a TWR one, so the F1 problems should remain separate from TWR and HSV. I hope!

mustang1966

14-09-2002, 07:44 AM

Well my views as a Ford fan and a V8 Supercars fan.

I like oldxr have followed Dick Johnson for 22 odd years. I still follow DJR and am a huge ran of the RAT. I have also followed Stone Bros racing and think they are the number 1 Ford team. Ambrose has taken the battle to the TWR teams this year and as some people have said the pit stops and other small things have cost them wins.

My view is this, if there is a parity problem why is it we donâ€™t see top 15 cars all Holden, and then the rest are Fords. If there were a huge parity issue why is that Perkins, and Rogersâ€™s motorsport are not ahead of certain ford teams.

There are several things that do concern me, those things are -

1. Project blueprint. Do we want to see something simular to Nascar here in Australia where every car is virtually the same except for the body shell and engine? To me that takes away from the whole Ford/Holden or Ford SVO/Chev Battle. I guess it is kind of like this now and to me it takes away from the whole Ford Holden thing. I still have to laugh at people who think the Holden/Ford V8 supercar is almost the same as you buy on the showroom floor.

2. If Prodrive come on board in Australia and create a Ford superteam as in HRT, what happens to the other smaller teams such as DJR, Perkins, Rogers, GSR, SBR, etc. We will have to big money teams winning and every other smaller team is buggered. What will happen to guys like Dick and Larry whose life have been racing and has created something from their love of the sport.

I will be the first to admit to not liking HRT winning all the time and the HRT bandwagon supporter, for mind I would rather see Larry, Russell, Steven Richards, Garth, or Bargs having a win for Holden.

I still have to laugh at the HRT stickers on the back of an Excel, Lantra, etc

Those are just my views, like them or not.

Cheers
Mark

oldxr

15-09-2002, 10:22 AM

GTSCoupe, which year are you talking about, 1995 the year they were slowed down so they couldn't repeat their win at Barthurst. One year of dominance for Ford, five for holden and they still havn't been slowed, seems fair.
This Championship is contoled by pro holden power brokers, history shows this to be true.

ferrari fan

15-09-2002, 01:59 PM

Whatever a oxymoron is or what is does ;It works all off a sudden for Jaguar, 5th on the starting grid in MONZA ,which is an out an out POWER (HP) circiut! Go EDDY Go!
Hopefully a great race to be had.

ferrari fan

11-05-2003, 05:38 PM

Tommo ,for sure left a nice mess and it has affected HRT well and truely.
A special dispensation is in place to keep them going and ford is romping away.
so much for "it won't affect them at all" sadly.
Tega and Avesco are making it hard with all these rules to make sure that they are the "Big" bully Boys and in total control.
Conspiracy Against MotorSport is now missing in action. ...... :mad:

ferrari fan

21-09-2003, 05:55 PM

We are now only a couple of weeks before the BATHURST Race and still the legacy of Uncle Tomm is well and truly alive, despite some of you being sure that it would not have any inpact!
The team manager is now under scrutiny and the poor driver manager is just about to be run over and discarded.He( Mark Skaife) SHOULD NOT BE THERE. This could end in tears for Mark sadly
Mark is just a driver and basicly a decent guy, but he is in the swimmingpool with some serious sharks and nowhere to hide.