00 Motorsport... Is it Fords only hope??

[loste_treasures]

Hello all,

We all know the history about Craig Lowndes departure from HRT and ending up at the Dark Side of the Force..... FORD.

Many had hoped this move would bring about the demise of HRT. One year on.....has it?????

Now, before many of you start rattling your cages, think about this. There are more 'dedicated' Ford race drivers who must have been spewing about this, such as Glen Seaton.......

I wonder if he is not chuckling away, now that 00 Motorsport hasnt done as well as many thought?

And yes, i am a HRT fan. But wait, i do have a soft spot for some Ford race drivers like Glen Seaton. I think he is a battler and hasnt been given enough support and publicity lately.

Take Biante for example. How many Biante 00 Motorsport Falcons have been made compared to Seatons Falcon.......

I mean at least Seaton has been Touring Car Champion. Whats Lowndes achievements........all in a Holden not a Ford......

Now this should get the flames going !!!!!


BROOOOOOMMMMMMM................what was that????.....never mind it was only just another Holden....on its way to victory

[Grubby]

Let Ford put there money elsewhere and Craig Lowndes can come back from the dark side and drive a Holden again.
Brock was close to getting his services before the defection, but their friendship is still very strong....maybe the time is right.

Otherwise maybe we will see Lowndes taking the extra seat that TWR is supposidly getting.

Farewell Lowndes sets to become Lowndes is Back sets.

Grubby

[Graeme]

Hey fellas, a Ford did win a race just a week or so ago !!

You won't ever see Craig Lowndes in a TWR affiliated Holden again, and the HRT lovers out there must have stopped mourning by now. After all, you've got that lovely Skaife bloke to keep you happy, at least until a Nissan GTR returns from the grave.

Oh how I wish it was Skaife who uttered those immortal words at Bathurst in 1992 : " you're a pack of arseholes ". I'm sure Jim Richards was talking to the Holden boofheads that day.

Most of you would be aware that Lowndes jumped ship because Skaife was getting management favouritism and "The Kid" wanted some personal control of his future....Ford gave him that and a lucrative contract to boot.

00 have three cars to play with and I'm sure they will progressively pick up the game. Fred Gibson's departure must have been a disturbing hiccup in the 2002 campaign beginnings.

As for Seton, I agree that he's a good guy who hasn't had a good run over the last few years. Unfortunately, running a single car team makes it difficult to improve vehicle performance on any given race weekend. But, Bathurst is a different kind of race.

Can't wait for Bathurst 2002 !!!

[Grubby]

I believe that the Lowndes departure was a little more than - simple control of his future. ( let's not get started on that )
YES Ford did pay HUGE dollars to acquire his services.

The one thing that I totally agree with is "Can't wait for Bathurst 2002"

Grubby

[loste_treasures]

You can pump as much money as you want in a race team, but that still will not make it a good race team.

I think Glen Seaton has got a raw deal from Ford. Heaven knows he has been loyal to the 'blue oval'. Why didnt they (Ford) see this and reward him.

I think that the hype about Lowndes is abit overrated. Whilst he is a good driver he isnt the best. Instead of throwing a suit case full of money at Lowndes, Ford would have been better off investing in HRT shares !!!!

Luke......I am your father..........

[wacpt]

Ford's response to the HRT domination was to put money into ALL the Ford teams rather than have a FORD FACTORY TEAM. I guess it gives all the Ford teams a fair go.
As for biante making more 00 cars than Seaton's. I think you'll find that CC have his contract, so Biante aren't going to do them, just as CC have Perkins.
And finally, if my memory (poor that it is) serves me correctly, Craig won 3 Championships, all before his 24th Birthday. I would call that an achievement. Admittedly, for HRT, but put a good driver with a good crew, and you have the makings of a champion.
Now he's with 00, he's as good as the rest when they get it right. Just takes time to tune a team. Glen's had plenty of years practice to get it right and so have a lot of other drivers.
Take HRT out of the equation and it's anyone's game. As we saw last weekend.

Bring on the mountain!!!!

[Glen Alexander]

00 Motorsport might be a little stronger next year. David Besnard is out of a drive with SBR, being replaced by Russell Ingall - so I hear - and there has supposedly been talks betwwen 00 and Besnard, who you all know has shown he can match it with the best of them, I think he has the ability, just needs reliability.

All hear say, I will wait till next year, but then again, I might just ask David's father when I see him on Tuesday at the Club that I work at, then I'll post some more info.

Watch this space as they say!!

Glen

[CRAIG KEITH]

Where to start, first if you think so highly of Glenn, his surname is SETON. I truly believe Lowndes is the best driver out there. Put any of these TWR drivers in anything else and see how they go. Get over it Lowndes drives a Ford and he aint going back. As for his results lets compare front downforce test results from the back to back tests at Avalon airport. Standard wing configuration, Ford 16kg Holden 63kg. Max rear wing 11kg to 59kg and min. rear wing 12kg to 65kg. The Ford had an advantage in rear downforce but the "Commodore has 300 percent more downforce over the front axle". (Quote from Ross Stone). Lets see how Lowndes goes in a truly even parity formula before we judge his results. For any one who thinks this an even parity formula now Holden has won seven of the last nine Bathurst races, 19 podium spots to eight, that works out at 77% of races, 70% of podiums and 63% of top tens. Any driver who gets a win in a Ford under this so called parity system is either bloody lucky, bloody good or both. You Holden supporters go on and on about how good your drivers and cars are, before ford got Lowndes Mr Skaife would say Ford had poor results because Holden had the best drivers and cars. The AU never had a chance thanks to a system biased towards Holden and Holden supporters the AU was forced to run with the EL aero kit how the hell was that ever going to work. Any way back to Lowndes he is a Ford driver and I may read him wrong but I would be suprised if he intends to pull out of something he has started before he gets the results. I think Seton has not had enough support as well. In my opinion Ford should take all their money and concentrate it on five teams. DJR, Stone Bros. 00 Motorsport, Jones Bros. GSR. If the smaller teams are to receive funding it should be as merged entities with the bigger teams , I mean say Larkham runs out of DJR's workshops etc. If Ford dont concentrate their resources we'll never get it back to a level playing field even with so called Project Blueprint. Seton should have merged with Super Cheap, single car under funded teams cannot compete any more. Anyway once again keep dreaming youre not getting the kid back, everything else is geared towards Holden victory but weve got the fastest two drivers in the series, Lowndes and Ambrose and you can keep Skaife he is a top line driver but weve seen his results in a lower level team, hopefully Ford dont waste Lowndes talents and we see a level playing field for all to display their skills and not just more TWR benefits. By the way I follow DJR and only DJR but still enjoy seeing any Ford being able to compete with the TWR juggernaut.

[Richard Poole]

Dave, Those posts did not come through properly (way too small).

If you save them as .jpg files at 500 * 500 pixels and they will come through fine.

[oldxr]

I agree with you GRAIG KEITH on every thing except one thing, CLownes is nowhere near being the best driver, take him out of the best car and put him in a average car and he struggles, just the way he has since coming to FORD, i say go back to holden CLownes we don't need you waisting money that should be spent on loyal FORD teams like DJR, Stone Bros, Jones Bros, Larko, Super Cheap and even Seton.

[BATHURSTFAN]

well said Craig !!!

There are a lot of great drivers out there, but what splits them most of the time is the equipment (cars).

When Lowndes and Skaife were paired at HRT with the same cars, who had the number 1 on door for most of the time - Lowndes or Skaife?

Don't forget Lowndes is 8 yrs younger than Skaife and has time to win a lot more races.

Glenn

[loste_treasures]

Originally posted by CRAIG KEITH
Where to start, first if you think so highly of Glenn, his surname is SETON. I truly believe Lowndes is the best driver out there. Put any of these TWR drivers in anything else and see how they go. Get over it Lowndes drives a Ford and he aint going back. As for his results lets compare front downforce test results from the back to back tests at Avalon airport. Standard wing configuration, Ford 16kg Holden 63kg. Max rear wing 11kg to 59kg and min. rear wing 12kg to 65kg. The Ford had an advantage in rear downforce but the "Commodore has 300 percent more downforce over the front axle". (Quote from Ross Stone). Lets see how Lowndes goes in a truly even parity formula before we judge his results. For any one who thinks this an even parity formula now Holden has won seven of the last nine Bathurst races, 19 podium spots to eight, that works out at 77% of races, 70% of podiums and 63% of top tens. Any driver who gets a win in a Ford under this so called parity system is either bloody lucky, bloody good or both. You Holden supporters go on and on about how good your drivers and cars are, before ford got Lowndes Mr Skaife would say Ford had poor results because Holden had the best drivers and cars. The AU never had a chance thanks to a system biased towards Holden and Holden supporters the AU was forced to run with the EL aero kit how the hell was that ever going to work. Any way back to Lowndes he is a Ford driver and I may read him wrong but I would be suprised if he intends to pull out of something he has started before he gets the results. I think Seton has not had enough support as well. In my opinion Ford should take all their money and concentrate it on five teams. DJR, Stone Bros. 00 Motorsport, Jones Bros. GSR. If the smaller teams are to receive funding it should be as merged entities with the bigger teams , I mean say Larkham runs out of DJR's workshops etc. If Ford dont concentrate their resources we'll never get it back to a level playing field even with so called Project Blueprint. Seton should have merged with Super Cheap, single car under funded teams cannot compete any more. Anyway once again keep dreaming youre not getting the kid back, everything else is geared towards Holden victory but weve got the fastest two drivers in the series, Lowndes and Ambrose and you can keep Skaife he is a top line driver but weve seen his results in a lower level team, hopefully Ford dont waste Lowndes talents and we see a level playing field for all to display their skills and not just more TWR benefits. By the way I follow DJR and only DJR but still enjoy seeing any Ford being able to compete with the TWR juggernaut.

Hmmm.....

Where do i start?? First of all let me apologise for the incorrect spelling of SETON.

You quote alot of nice facts and figures. Sure it might make a difference in a controlled (and safe) environment like a closed circuit, but in the real world (where i live) the first bend on the race track in a real race often makes all the difference.

Lets see...you think Lowndes is going to drive a Ford and never going to go back??

You must live in lala land. Lowndes is a professional race driver. He will drive in any vehicle (and team) that gives him a drive. It doesnt matter if its a Ford or Holden. It shouldnt really matter, should it?

Have we forgotten one P. Brock who drove a BMW and Ford after he left Holden? Wasnt the outcries similar to this? Brock drove with whoever he could get a drive for. Pure and simple.

You also mention about TWR and how good it is. How quickly we forget the history of HDT. Have we also forgetten the history of Skaife in a Nissan?? Point here is that Holdens have been around for a while now, and have been winning consistantly. Skaife is a good driver. In fact, he is a great driver no matter what you put him in. Lowndes is yet to prove that point. Look at his aspirations overseas..........FAILURE !!!!!

Obviously we can tell who you 'side' with and theres nothing wrong with that. You can probably tell who i side with. Point here is that before you make silly remarks, stop and think about what is going to be said. Sure you can be passionate about your team. Just remember that the team (or driver) you follow will have no loyalty to the car they drive. Money does make the world go around........

Also dont forget that it doesnt matter if its Skaife, Lowndes, Brock, Ambrose, or Joe Smith from down the street. They are all professional race car drivers driving in a professional race team. They take no sides. Look at Ingall and his potential moves to Ford........

They will drive for any team as long as the team will give them a ride.

[mustang1966]

Lowndes is yet to prove that point. Look at his aspirations overseas..........FAILURE !!!!!


I thought Mr Skaife went O/S as well with no great sucess, P Brook was the same. Quite a few drivers have tried it overseas only to come home, does that mean they have not proven themselves in the racing world or is it just Craig Lowndes?

Hmmm how about Paul Radisich? 2 X BTCC champion, but then again he is a crap driver in V8 Supercars right?

Personally I will always prefer Fords racing history to Holdens. That is if you can move beyond the relms of V8 Supercars.

[Richard Poole]

Nothing came through Dave. Please try again.

[loste_treasures]

Originally posted by mustang1966


I thought Mr Skaife went O/S as well with no great sucess, P Brook was the same. Quite a few drivers have tried it overseas only to come home, does that mean they have not proven themselves in the racing world or is it just Craig Lowndes?

Hmmm how about Paul Radisich? 2 X BTCC champion, but then again he is a crap driver in V8 Supercars right?

Personally I will always prefer Fords racing history to Holdens. That is if you can move beyond the relms of V8 Supercars.

The 'Rat' is a very good driver. No one can deny him his success in the U.K. However, if your talking about V8 Supercars, then yes i would consider him to be a failure (so far). Dont forget that the 'BTCC series', driving is very different to way us aussies drive.

The comparison has been made with Skaife and Lowndes and that is what ive tried to stick with. To imply that Skaife is not as good (as many put it) as Lowndes is ridiculous. Again, time will tell if Lowndes in a Falcon will prove everyone wrong. Certainly there must be certain people at Ford waiting nervously to see if 'the kid' can deliver like he did in a Commodore. And before you all start stating how disadvanted the Falcons are against the Commodores then stop.

What wins a race? The car itself or the person driving the car? Certainly if he is that good he will overcome the 'massive' (as some people are stating - lame excuse) disadvantages the Falcon has. C'mon guys, stop blaming the car and start looking at the driver.

In regards to P. Brook (as you called him), yes i agree to an extent that his famous Le Mans venture was not a success as many hoped and yes this would consider to be a failure.

[drof]

Just to add fuel to the fire!!

Dave from Kiwiland!!

[CRAIG KEITH]

Loste Treasures, do you have to work at coming across as an obnoxious so and so or is it a natural trait of yours. I really dont care what Lowndesy does I just find it funny all your mob are still bleating about getting him back. Dont give me any talk about real worlds mate or I might just see you in the real world one day. As far as Skaife is concerned in that Nissan I reckon you might have been able to get around a track in a half decent time,(then again, maybe not), we all know they are all exceptional talents in their sport, we all support our own teams and drivers and marques, you seem to have a problem with my opinions and I would truly like to see if you can be as sarcastic to my face in that real world you tell me you live in.

[loste_treasures]

Originally posted by CRAIG KEITH
Loste Treasures, do you have to work at coming across as an obnoxious so and so or is it a natural trait of yours. I really dont care what Lowndesy does I just find it funny all your mob are still bleating about getting him back. Dont give me any talk about real worlds mate or I might just see you in the real world one day. As far as Skaife is concerned in that Nissan I reckon you might have been able to get around a track in a half decent time,(then again, maybe not), we all know they are all exceptional talents in their sport, we all support our own teams and drivers and marques, you seem to have a problem with my opinions and I would truly like to see if you can be as sarcastic to my face in that real world you tell me you live in.

Now, i hope this isnt meant to be a threat. See what i like is that people like yourself who run out of logical arguments have to resort like the tone you have answered with.

I originally started this post with abit of flame and watched people add fuel to the fire. Yes, I've added some fuel as well. I like fishing. Drop in a line with the proper bait and your bound to have a good catch.......YOU !!!!

I have no problems with your opinion. Far from it. Passionate opinions make a good forum even better. Keep it up !!

Oh, and by the way. We may have met already...who knows....

[cossie]

Hi Guys, one thing I would like to clarify The Rat never won 2 BTCC Championships, he won races but never the Championship, somebody please correct me if I am wrong. But he did win the TOCA World Touring Car Championship 2 years in a row in a Mondeo. That I would rate a success, I would also rate him a success in V8's, I mean he has won races, more than what some other drivers have, that you might rate successful. He has had a disapointing season so far, but the word failure does not belong with any driver racing the V8's.
Skaife is certainly a great driver, but it is the whole HRT package that is putting him where he is now.
I do believe Lowndes is the best driver out there. When he was racing for HRT all you Holden boys thought that, now he is with Ford you Holden fans want to bag him, I am surprised you want him back.
GO THE FORD's, don't care which one, just as long as it is one.
BLUE BLOODED

[00lowndes]

I agree with u cossie. The Holden boys loved LOWNDES when he was driving for them but put their man SKAIFE into LOWNDES car and put Lowndes back into SKAFE car for a fifty lap stint on any track and see who is the best driver then!!!!! Then repeat the fifty lap stint in their own cars and see who has the best time in both cars!!!!

[SWRT]

In resonse to lotsa-treasures saying that Lowndes failed overseas might I remind you Skaife also tryed his luck to get to F1 and FAILED as well.
Lowndes when he did F3000 was given 2nd rate equipment while Juan Pablo Montoya(yes,he waw Lowndes's team mate) was given all the good stuff.Lowndes's best result during the year was 4th.
By the end of the year Lowndes got 13th and Montoya got 4th.

Also Rob Nygyen the Vietnamese born Brisbane boy has had a similar season like Lowndes in 1997 exept for a 5th place finish and getting 3rd fatest at Monza during a F3000 test day and race weekend.

[loste_treasures]

Originally posted by SWRT
In resonse to lotsa-treasures saying that Lowndes failed overseas might I remind you Skaife also tryed his luck to get to F1 and FAILED as well.
Lowndes when he did F3000 was given 2nd rate equipment while Juan Pablo Montoya(yes,he waw Lowndes's team mate) was given all the good stuff.Lowndes's best result during the year was 4th.
By the end of the year Lowndes got 13th and Montoya got 4th.

Also Rob Nygyen the Vietnamese born Brisbane boy has had a similar season like Lowndes in 1997 exept for a 5th place finish and getting 3rd fatest at Monza during a F3000 test day and race weekend.

ahhhh.....lotsa_treasures........thats a good one...

obviously you have read the previous posts in this thread. i have made mention of other drivers as well, not just lowndes...

and second rate equipment??? dont you mean that Ford stuff he is racing in at the moment???

Ahh....you gotta luv these Ford fans......

[mustang1966]

I originally started this post with abit of flame and watched people add fuel to the fire. Yes, I've added some fuel as well. I like fishing. Drop in a line with the proper bait and your bound to have a good catch.......YOU !!!!

So do you come to this forum to talk about models or just to sh!t stir people. Please don’t tell me this is going to be another forum ruined by yet another fool.

For one I have never knocked Mark Skaife as a driver. I feel he has a great amount of skill and part of HRT/TWR winning success has been because he has been in the team. 4 ATCC championships is a great record and you cannot deny his skill.

How many ATCC championships did Lowndes win? Was it 3? Sure they were all in a Holden so it shows he has a great degree of skill, just like Mark Skaife.

I think it comes down to many factors in who wins races and also a series. It's not just the best driver, best car. It comes down to the pit crew, the engineering of the car; it comes from the amount of money, development and goodies you can throw in the car.

Marcos Ambrose has had his fair amount of chances this year, but has failed for various reasons. Just like the TWR cars did at the Queensland 500.

As I stated before it is many factors that makes from winning not just a driver.


If you feel the need to go and bait people, I think 99% on people in here would appreciate it if you went to www.conrod.com.au or maybe a kiddies chat room. Please don’t ruin yet another forum, then again people in here seem smart enough to start ignoring a fool when he has nothing decent to contribute.

[loste_treasures]

Now before you start making ill-informed conclusions, read the various posts that have been posted in this thread.

I am not here to sh!t can anyone. I started this post with some observations and waited to see peoples reactions. Yes, i have played on the old Ford vs Holden battle. But does that mean i am a fool???? The fool is the one who falls for an obvious bait.

Read some of the other posts and see what people think about the Lowndes/Skaife issue.

I have never stated that Lowndes is a crap driver. I've said he is a good driver not a great driver. Again, i find it very amusing when at one stage Ford fans were canning Lowndes driving a Holden and now he is God driving a Ford.

Quite honestly, i couldnt care what car he drives in. I'm not bleeding that he is in a Ford. I hope that he does good. I've actually met Craig and think that he is a nice and down to earth bloke. I actually put the same remarks (as in the original post) to him face to face. You know what his response was?

He didnt really care. All he wants to do is race with a team that will give him maximum results. He knows that loyal Holden/Lowndes fans have walked away from him because of his change of camps. But his attitude is that if the fans cannot see him for what he is then they are not worth having as fans.

And as far as your remarks about me going to a childs chat room, i dont think so. Forums like these are made up of different and varied opinions. Some of you agree with and some of you dont. Just because you dont agree with something or think it is stupid does not mean that the writer is a fool. Maybe he is smarter than you think.

Anyway to all you Ford/Holden fans out there, dont lose any sleep over this or any other remarks placed in any other threads. I know i wont.

V8 Supercar Racing is not a sport. It is a business. A big advertising business. The Fords and Holdens that race around the tracks are big, fast and loud advertising billboards. Without the sponsers there would be not a single race.

The race drivers themselves are simply salesmen in a fancy suit. They win races only to promote the product on the doors of their vehicle. Pure and simple.

[Graeme]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have to compliment Loste on a most entertaining thread.

He's drawn the thread and sewed the needle expertly!!



Also, commendations to Mustang and Keith too.

Keep up the passion boys ....this is becoming more entertaining than a V8 Supercar race.

[jager]

In regards to P. Brook (as you called him), yes i agree to an extent that his famous Le Mans venture was not a success as many hoped and yes this would consider to be a failure.

The Team Australia efforts at LeMans in 1984 came to an end when Perkins crashed the car while overtaking a backmarker around midnight. How can this one incident in anyway judge Peter Brock to be a failure at an international level ? ?

OK, so Brock/Perkins weren't leading the race at the time but were still in a very respectable position. Remember it was only their second drive in the Porsche 956 against factory drivers who had driven the same car week in, week out for the previous 3 years.

[rowdydave]

I can see that this forum is heading in the same direction as the forum on the old website.......................SOUTH.

[loste_treasures]

Originally posted by Graeme
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have to compliment Loste on a most entertaining thread.

He's drawn the thread and sewed the needle expertly!!

Also, commendations to Mustang and Keith too.

Keep up the passion boys ....this is becoming more entertaining than a V8 Supercar race.

Now heres a man who knows good reading when he sees it !!!!

With a V8 Supercar race you know whos gonna win (HRT 1 & 2) and its pretty much predictable.

At least with this thread theres a new twist with every post.

CARN THE HOLDENS....... !!!!! :p

[rowdydave]

To the concerned members,

I have an evil plan for you to be rid of loste_treasures once and for all.............hahahahahahahaha,cough, cough, hahahahaha.

The answer lies at the bottom of every post he writes....... hahahahahahahahahaha, cough, spit, hahahaha.


Tell his wife that he collects model cars!!!!

AAAAHHHHhahahahahahahahahahahaha.


(Sorry i'm on holidays and a bit bored!!!)

[GTSCoup]

Loste, if you want to go fishing then go here http://www.rexhunt.com.au/

If not, please stop stiring this sort of agro here.

[V8 fan]

No way.

If Lowndes was Fords only hope, Ford would be struggling to keep its head above the surface. I've got nothing against Lowndes, but he's just not showing results.
If I were Ford i would be putting my trust in Stone Bro's Racing. I'm not biast just because of Queensland, but they've been the most consistantly quick Ford team all year, showing they can keep up to HRTs pace

Sorry if I made a few enemies, but I think it is true.

[lindsay]

Dave havn't you learnt yet that headlines sell papers. They most probably sold a 1000 more copies that week but when you read the article there isn't much to substantiate their claim. But what a great idea to sell the mag.
As for Lownd'sy I though he was a great driver in a Holden & I still think he is a great driver in a Ford even though he has only
had a couple of podium finishes.
I have just as many Lowndes 00
photos as I have Lowndes HRT photos. Who gives a S...t what he drives. As for great ambassadors for the sport what about Good old Larry , he's been there done that gone overseas raced Formula 1 come back & done just as well in V8's.
No one jumped up & down when Jason Bright said he was coming back to drive for HRT after winning Bathurst in a Ford

[SWRT]

Just for lotse_treasures when I said Lowndes had 2nd rate equipment I say that about his F3000 season in 1997 not his current falcon.

[Glen Alexander]

I don't know why this thread is titled 00 Motorsport - Is it Ford's only hope?? when it has been Stone Bros doing the business for Ford all season. As all in the sport seem to agree, take HRT out of the equation and the racing behind them is pretty close. Everyone needs to engineer to the standards of HRT, an endless money pit for everyone would be nice though!!!

Glen