Winton V8 supercars

[brchi17]

Friday Practice results

1.888 Triple 8 Craig Lowndes 1:23.8036
2.3 Tasman Jason Richards 1:24.16240
3.11 Jack Daniel's Racing Paul Dumbrell 1:24.20130
4.22 HRT Todd Kelly 1:24.35480
5.16 HSVDT Garth Tander 1:24.36620
6.6 FPR Jason Bright 1:24.36810
7.34 GRM Dean Canto 1:24.42620
8. 88 Triple 8 Jamie Whincup1:24.63050
9.55 Autobarn Racing Steve Owen 1:24.64060
10.15 HSVDT Rick Kelly 1:24.72720
11. 1 SBR Russell Ingall 1:24.86180
12.2 HRT Mark Skaife 1:24.87750
13.51 SCAR Greg Murphy 1:24.88540
14.7 Jack Daniel's Racing Steven Richards 1:24.91190
15.8 WPS Max Wilson 1:24.96480
16.25 Fujitsu Racing Warren Luff 1:24.97180
17.17 DJR Seven Johnson 1:24.97930
18.50 SCAR Cameron McConville 1:25.00280
19.5 FPR Mark Winterbottom 1:25.07220
20.67 Team Sirromet Paul Morris 1:25.07730
21.33 GRM Lee Holdsworth 1:25.15070
22.39 Team Sirromet Fabian Coulthard 1:25.17180
23.4 SBR James Courtney 1:25.17810
24.23 Tasman Andrew Jones 1:25.19500
25.12 Team BOC John Bowe 1:25.19710
26.10 WPS Jason Bargwanna 1:25.21230
27.18 DJR Will Davison 1:25.22770
28.14 Team BOC Brad Jones 1:25.32840
29.021 Team Kiwi Paul Radisich 1:26.09450
30.20 Glenfords-AEG Racing Marcus Marshall 1:26.42250
31.26 Fujitsu Racing Jose Fernandez 1:26.69640

[CrankMYshaft]

:( Sadly, only the Sunday races will be televised. I hope Ch7 do something about this next year. Otherwise, there will be no point the V8 Supercars swapping stations.

PS: I probably should have posted this in another thread. Oh, well.;)

Regards,

[HRT 1-2]

Depends where you live, Melb & Bris have them at 11:00pm tomorrow night and I think Syd has them at 1:30am Sun morning!

[brchi17]

:( Sadly, only the Sunday races will be televised. I hope Ch7 do something about this next year. Otherwise, there will be no point the V8 Supercars swapping stations.

PS: I probably should have posted this in another thread. Oh, well.;)

Regards,

perhaps adding your location to your user cp might help us, help you ;) ???

[brchi17]

Speaking about the times from today, I wonder if some drivers put on some green's to set a hot time ???

There's certainly some interesting players in the top half of the times

[VXfan]

Very unlike Mr Skaife to be out of the top 10.
Early days yet I suppose.
Cheers,
Tony.

[brchi17]

Very unlike Mr Skaife to be out of the top 10.
Early days yet I suppose.
Cheers,
Tony.

news is starting to come out from Winton that it was a disrupted session and on a couple of occasions drivers got caught out when then slapped on a set of greens - see HSVDT's press release for example.

[toddy05]

Fridays are always interesting but rarely a true indicator of actual Sunday form, Often the ones who should be in the ten are not and many who are won't be this time tomorrow.....Looks good for CL and hope Jason Rico stays in there, good potential...

[Tumbo]

Yet again Channel ten leaving the fans in the lurch- i'm sorry but there is no way i'll stay up late to watch a long finished race, or tape it in the chance that I will watch it before the Sunday session. One can only hope that Chennel 7 gives up the coverage Ten were just a few years ago; not happy :mad:

[wayno]

Get used to it. I think Channel Infomercial will show less and less interest in V8's as the year goes on.

[CrankMYshaft]

There seems to be more crime shows than motorsport these days....:rolleyes:

[brchi17]

There seems to be more crime shows than motorsport these days....:rolleyes:

& yet they all seem the same, unlike motorsport :mad: !!!

I wonder if this week ch.10 will replay race 1 on Sunday morning (like they did for NZ) or just show race 2 & 3 (like they did for the WA round) ???

I just wish they would make up their mind and stick with one formula.

Interesting to note that Steve Owen has done a stellar performance in cracking his first top 10 (even if it is 1st practice) :D !!!

[Oh Five]

I would rather watch the full race at 23.00, than edited highlights on sunday (if any at all). Gives me a chance to down a couple more "frothys" after the satdy nite footy.;)

[fomoco04]

I would rather watch the full race at 23.00, than edited highlights on sunday (if any at all). Gives me a chance to down a couple more "frothys" after the satdy nite footy.;)

All adds up o a good nite in.:)

[Goodwrench3]

I'll be taping Sat's late-nite-televised race and I'll plonk it on an hour before Ch.10's planned start for Sunday.
I think this is a good plan. But then I'm used to such things being a NASCAR fan in Oz.

[HRT 1-2]

I would rather watch the full race at 23.00, than edited highlights on sunday (if any at all). Gives me a chance to down a couple more "frothys" after the satdy nite footy.;)

Sounds extremely close to my Saturday night, I better whack the lock on the fridge! ;) Watch the Wobbles & the Lions then settle in for the brooms, I have no drama with the way Saturday night is looking! :cool:

[HRT 1-2]

Pos Car Entrant Driver Vehicle Laps Fastest Lap Fastest Lap Time Gap
1 6 Ford Performance Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BA 9 4 1:23.3089
2 22 Holden Racing Team Todd Kelly Holden Commodore VZ 10 9 1:23.3706 0:00.0617
3 3 Tasman Motorsport Jason Richards Holden Commodore VZ 9 7 1:23.4895 0:00.1806
4 16 Toll HSV Dealer Team Garth Tander Holden Commodore VZ 11 9 1:23.5523 0:00.2434
5 15 Toll HSV Dealer Team Rick Kelly Holden Commodore VZ 12 7 1:23.5889 0:00.2800
6 88 Team Betta Electrical Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon BA 11 9 1:23.6379 0:00.3290
7 11 Jack Daniel's Racing Paul Dumbrell Holden Commodore VZ 11 5 1:23.6476 0:00.3387
8 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Steven Richards Holden Commodore VZ 12 10 1:23.6561 0:00.3472
9 888 Team Betta Electrical Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon BA 11 10 1:23.7390 0:00.4301
10 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon BA 11 11 1:23.8295 0:00.5206
11 2 Holden Racing Team Mark Skaife Holden Commodore VZ 10 4 1:23.8624 0:00.5535
12 34 Repco Valvoline Cummins Team Dean Canto Holden Commodore VZ 11 4 1:23.9535 0:00.6446
13 51 Super Cheap Auto Racing Greg Murphy Holden Commodore VZ 11 11 1:23.9936 0:00.6847
14 17 FirstRock Mortgage Centre Steven Johnson Ford Falcon BA 13 9 1:24.1037 0:00.7948
15 1 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon BA 13 6 1:24.1067 0:00.7978
16 55 Autobarn Racing Steve Owen Holden Commodore VZ 10 8 1:24.1462 0:00.8373
17 23 Tasman Motorsport Andrew Jones Holden Commodore VZ 10 5 1:24.2122 0:00.9033
18 8 WPS Racing Max Wilson Ford Falcon BA 13 10 1:24.2613 0:00.9524
19 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon BA 13 10 1:24.2775 0:00.9686
20 18 V8 Telecom Will Davison Ford Falcon BA 12 8 1:24.3167 0:01.0078
21 021 Team Kiwi Racing Paul Radisich Holden Commodore VZ 11 11 1:24.3276 0:01.0187
22 39 Team Sirromet Wines Fabian Coulthard Holden Commodore VZ 13 13 1:24.3398 0:01.0309
23 33 Repco Valvoline Cummins Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore VZ 12 9 1:24.3630 0:01.0541
24 10 WPS Racing Jason Bargwanna Ford Falcon BA 13 13 1:24.4981 0:01.1892
25 67 Team Sirromet Wines Paul Morris Holden Commodore VZ 11 11 1:24.5610 0:01.2521
26 14 Team BOC Brad Jones Ford Falcon BA 12 10 1:24.6120 0:01.3031
27 12 Team BOC John Bowe Ford Falcon BA 12 12 1:24.9227 0:01.6138
28 25 Fujitsu Racing Warren Luff Ford Falcon BA 12 11 1:25.1086 0:01.7997
29 20 Glenfords-AEG Racing Marcus Marshall Ford Falcon BA 12 7 1:25.2338 0:01.9249
30 26 Fujitsu Racing Jose Fernandez Ford Falcon BA 12 5 1:25.7839 0:02.4750

[HRT 1-2]

GT must have been flicked for some reason:confused:

Pos Car Entrant Driver Vehicle Laps Fastest Lap Fastest Lap Time Gap
1 6 Ford Performance Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BA 1 1 1:23.6101
2 11 Jack Daniel's Racing Paul Dumbrell Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:23.6215 0:00.0114
3 3 Tasman Motorsport Jason Richards Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:23.6287 0:00.0186
4 888 Team Betta Electrical Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon BA 1 1 1:23.6631 0:00.0530
5 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Steven Richards Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:24.0066 0:00.3965
6 22 Holden Racing Team Todd Kelly Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:24.1347 0:00.5246
7 2 Holden Racing Team Mark Skaife Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:24.3727 0:00.7626
8 88 Team Betta Electrical Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon BA 1 1 1:24.7653 0:01.1552
9 15 Toll HSV Dealer Team Rick Kelly Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:27.2224 0:03.6123
10 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon BA 1 1 1:27.2681 0:03.6580

[toddy05]

Why were Kelly and Winterbottom 3 seconds slower than the rest who were in the 24s? Rain?....

[monarocveightz]

Get used to it. I think Channel Infomercial will show less and less interest in V8's as the year goes on.

Yep it will only get worse-it's just like the footy (AFL) up here in QLD the Friday night footy is real late- which is a dissapointing- lets hope channel 7 starts listening to the motorsport fans instead of their wallets!!!!!:)

[HRT 1-2]

Why were Kelly and Winterbottom 3 seconds slower than the rest who were in the 24s? Rain?....

I'd be surprised if there is rain there, it's a rippa day in Melb!

[lukey73]

So brighty wins the First race.

1 6 Ford Performance Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 48:58.1947 5 1:24.2992*
2 888 Team Betta Electrical Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 49:04.3689 4 1:24.4052
3 11 Jack Daniel's Racing Paul Dumbrell Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 49:07.4846 3 1:24.7739
4 22 Holden Racing Team Todd Kelly Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 49:13.1387 9 1:24.5865
5 2 Holden Racing Team Mark Skaife Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 49:16.2201 5 1:24.7201
6 16 Toll HSV Dealer Team Garth Tander Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 49:16.8950 15 1:24.7403
7 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Steven Richards Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 49:17.3677 5 1:24.5720
8 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 49:21.4159 9 1:24.8278
9 51 Super Cheap Auto Racing Greg Murphy Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 49:29.2665 5 1:25.0947
10 15 Toll HSV Dealer Team Rick Kelly Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 49:31.3390 9 1:24.5977
11 17 FirstRock Mortgage Centre Steven Johnson Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 49:31.6777 6 1:25.2277
12 1 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 49:32.7930 12 1:25.0726
13 55 Autobarn Racing Steve Owen Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 49:33.4222 9 1:25.2019
14 18 V8 Telecom Will Davison Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 49:43.9236 4 1:25.7817
15 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 49:46.0121 13 1:25.7066
16 33 Repco Valvoline Cummins Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 49:49.9534 5 1:25.7943
17 8 WPS Racing Max Wilson Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 49:59.7985 5 1:25.7381
18 14 Team BOC Brad Jones Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 50:01.5689 12 1:25.7845
19 50 Super Cheap Auto Racing Cameron McConville Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 50:07.8709 13 1:25.1691
20 021 Team Kiwi Racing Paul Radisich Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 50:09.0358 4 1:25.6953
21 25 Fujitsu Racing Warren Luff Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 50:16.4219 20 1:25.5378
22 34 Repco Valvoline Cummins Team Dean Canto Holden Commodore VZ 5000 34 50:22.3343 7 1:25.2931
23 12 Team BOC John Bowe Ford Falcon BA 5000 34 50:22.7323 9 1:26.0442
24 10 WPS Racing Jason Bargwanna Ford Falcon BA 5000 33 48:58.9680 9 1:25.9593
25 88 Team Betta Electrical Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon BA 5000 33 48:59.3958 21 1:24.9844
26 26 Fujitsu Racing Jose Fernandez Ford Falcon BA 5000 33 49:48.6028 14 1:26.9043
27 3 Tasman Motorsport Jason Richards Holden Commodore VZ 5000 31 49:34.7890 3 1:24.6616
28 20 Glenfords-AEG Racing Marcus Marshall Ford Falcon BA 5000 30 49:52.3053 5 1:26.3172
DNF 67 Team Sirromet Wines Paul Morris Holden Commodore VZ 5000 33 48:23.9296 20 1:25.4858
DNF 23 Tasman Motorsport Andrew Jones Holden Commodore VZ 5000 24 35:14.8749 18 1:25.1155
DNF 39 Team Sirromet Wines Fabian Coulthard Holden Commodore VZ 5000 13 18:57.9246 12 1:25.6593

PENALTY APPLIED
Competitor# 20 27 Seconds Penalty


Poor old Marcus Marshall cant seem to pull a trick in V8's, so much for Jason richards and his super quick commodore finishing down the bottom again. Whats the go with Dumbrell being a head of team mate S.Richards? dont tell me he has finally learnt to drive again.

Cant wait for the TV Replay tonight.

[bortall]

GT must have been flicked for some reason:confused:

Pos Car Entrant Driver Vehicle Laps Fastest Lap Fastest Lap Time Gap
1 6 Ford Performance Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BA 1 1 1:23.6101
2 11 Jack Daniel's Racing Paul Dumbrell Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:23.6215 0:00.0114
3 3 Tasman Motorsport Jason Richards Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:23.6287 0:00.0186
4 888 Team Betta Electrical Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon BA 1 1 1:23.6631 0:00.0530
5 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Steven Richards Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:24.0066 0:00.3965
6 22 Holden Racing Team Todd Kelly Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:24.1347 0:00.5246
7 2 Holden Racing Team Mark Skaife Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:24.3727 0:00.7626
8 88 Team Betta Electrical Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon BA 1 1 1:24.7653 0:01.1552
9 15 Toll HSV Dealer Team Rick Kelly Holden Commodore VZ 1 1 1:27.2224 0:03.6123
10 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon BA 1 1 1:27.2681 0:03.6580

GT got pinged for not stopping his engine when called onto the scales during qualifying. He was dropped to 11th on the grid and Skaife went into the shootout.

As for Winterbottom & Kelly they stuffed up there shoot out laps, simple as that.

[1370]

Get used to it. I think Channel Infomercial will show less and less interest in V8's as the year goes on.

Very good point. Although there will be contractual minimums that they will have to comply with, there's no incentive for them to build up a product and then see their competitor benefit.

[Tumbo]

Fantastic to see Bright back up at the top and FPR doing well again; Skaify seems to have his season back on track after the season opener

[Oh Five]

I'd be surprised if there is rain there, it's a rippa day in Melb!

It was a great day, Me being the "weather expert" told everyone to bring their jackets etc, well we arived at 09.00 and were in the T-shirts by 09.30:o

Now am watching the race , and finding out what happened as the trackside P.A was crap.

P.s HRT 1-2 how are the frothys tasting;)

[brchi17]

......Now am watching the race , and finding out what happened as the trackside P.A was crap.....

Funny that you say that, as Wayno rang me from the track today to make sure I was taping it for him. It did make me wonder if something big happened or if it was hard to find out what was going on........

Sounds as if it was a great day up there. I wish I could have been there, but reports are calling :( ........

[HRT 1-2]

Mate, they are going down a treat;)

Well done Brighty, as he said, if they can't win there, where can they win but, there were plenty of other locals in the weeds!

Was it just me or did the Cat look very fuellie? Looked like a steam train at times?

GT (even with the penalty) new championship leader, can't say I'm a fan but, Carn the Holdens:D

[toddy05]

Gt got pinged for not turning his engine off on the sales, how ridiculous are these rules these days. Heck I spose they even have a rule for which brand of toilet paper you use and how you wipe, front to back and which hand.....Another reason I cannot stand the organisational body of this supposed sport....Well done Brighty and Lowndes though

[Tumbo]

Would be interesting to know whether leaving the engine on could either affect the reading or be a safety hazard?

[toad]

Gt got pinged for not turning his engine off on the sales, how ridiculous are these rules these days. Heck I spose they even have a rule for which brand of toilet paper you use and how youy wipe, front to back and which hand.....Another reason I cannot stand the organisational bodyn of this supposed sport....Well done Brighty and Lowndes though


According to the telecast he had to leave his engine running on the scales as his starter motor had failed. Then the scrutineers forgot to tell his team of the penalty so a compromise penalty was given.

[malscar]

Would be interesting to know whether leaving the engine on could either affect the reading or be a safety hazard?

I would say both. The scales are very sensitive, so any vibration would make them jump a bit and I would not like to be hit by a driver making a mistake while I was going about my duties.

[Martin Thomas]

Was it just me or did the Cat look very fuellie? Looked like a steam train at times?


Might be onto something there.. Couple of years ago I asked if anyone else noticed the SBR cars seemed to be a bit richer than other Falcons. Last year the 888 cars appeared to me to be richer as well, now the FPR cars....

I think thats what you mean by "fuellie":D

[brchi17]

Gee I hate these reverse grid races :mad:

Sure there was plenty of crashes & things going on, but the racing on the track was rather below par. You see better racing at club events......

Tasman, summed up it best when they said on the radio it's not the kind of win we want, but a win's a win

Also I like Larry Perkins comments when asked about it with that's not racing, that's just shame full

I hope the teams get this reverse races scrapped as it's crap (in my opinion) - I'm almost glad I didn't make the effort to go up to Winton, cause I think paying to watch this fast is a joke :rolleyes:

[AmonFan]

Im not totally sure its the reverse grids, i think its much to do with the lack of talent on the grid.

[toddy05]

Woo hoo Go Lowndesey!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ingall ain't at the top either aany more...woo hoo what a good round!

[singer]

Im not totally sure its the reverse grids, i think its much to do with the lack of talent on the grid.

Has the reverse grid idea been introduced in the karting world?

[brchi17]

Has the reverse grid idea been introduced in the karting world?

didn't it start there ??? or was it dirt track oval racing ???

I have a feeling that both sports use the reverse gird race an aweful lot

either way, I hope we've seen the last of it :rolleyes:

[singer]

didn't it start there ??? or was it dirt track oval racing ???

I have a feeling that both sports use the reverse gird race an aweful lot

either way, I hope we've seen the last of it :rolleyes:

I've seen it done in Speedway (Dirt Track)

[singer]

Whoops:o double up

[singer]

didn't it start there ??? or was it dirt track oval racing ???

I have a feeling that both sports use the reverse gird race an aweful lot

either way, I hope we've seen the last of it :rolleyes:

I've seen it done in Speedway (Dirt Track) with similar levels of damage:(

[AmonFan]

Reverse grids have been in karting for a long time, its a little different though, we have first race computer drawn and 2nd race is reverse of that. If we have qualifying we often just have first 2 heats based on that grid order then after that highest points to front. Sports Sedans in some of their series used to run top 10 reversed in the 90s to about 2003.

[brchi17]

Whoops:o double up

don't you mean triple up :D LOL !!!

[VXfan]

Great to see the new 'accumulator' has been knocked off the top of the ladder.
Go the HSV boys, 1 & 2.They've gotta love that.:)
One day Todd Kelly is going to get thru a round without some mechanical failure!Not a good day for the HRT pit crew,the shambles over Skaifes side skirt followed by the Kelly wheel nut fiasco.
Getting sick of these drive thru penalties being issued to drivers for something that isn't their fault!!Fine the team if they have to but why oh why does the driver have to be penalised for a crew error?:mad:
What with these stupid decisions and the bloody reverse grid debacle,this comp is losing my interest fast.
Cheers,
Tony.

[Martin Thomas]

Getting sick of these drive thru penalties being issued to drivers for something that isn't their fault!!Fine the team if they have to but why oh why does the driver have to be penalised for a crew error?:mad:


I think its fair enough.. Enough races are won because of pit crews. If you can gain from a good performance, then it's fair enough to suffer from a stuff up. It is a team sport, after all. I think you'd find that if the driver were not penalised, these 'accidents' would happen a lot more often. Also, it's a fair pnishment as money is more of an issue to some teams than others.

Could be wrong, but..:D

[wayno]

Motor racing is a team sport. I can't see the problem with a driver being penalised if his crew stuffs up.
It must be a thank-less job working on the pit crew. If you do your job you hardly get noticed, but if you blow it everyone is down on you like a ton of bricks.

[wayno]

To be honest, I'm losing interest in the V8 Superbore series (apart from Bathurst of course). I was more interested in the Biante Series this week-end.
That Paul Stubber Camaro is quite simply the most entertaining vehicle in Australian motorsport.

[brchi17]

.....That Paul Stubber Camaro is quite simply the most entertaining vehicle in Australian motorsport.

Can't argee there my friend, orange monaro :D LOL !!!

[Road Runner 72]

So it look's like I didnt miss much then, forgot to set the timer on my VCR DOH.

[toad]

Whilst I don't agree with the concept of reverse grids for championship events because it makes a lottery of the results, and I do understand the issue of the damage bill, but I must say that I did find the 2nd race very entertaining. There was some very close racing and the inevitable biff and barge all over the place.

I would love to know if Stephen Richard's misdemeanor of re-entering the track into oncoming traffic after his first spin was because of his inability to turn his head fully in the HANS device. I know this is a big issue for me in my car (especially at intersections in touring stages of targa etc). It was the first thing I thought when I saw him do this.

[BILLFORD1]

Interesting round. I am with LP...Jack the Reverse Grid idea for R2 over a cliff & let it go! It's piffle !! The whole concept of V8 Racing is much more of a Lottery. 6/10 for CH X telecast, & that's being generous. :D

[ESPSIX]

What a BORING weekend of racing.
I drove up from Melb with two mates, spent in total $300, and drove home all vowing never to waste that kind of time and money on that BORING crap again!

[HRT 1-2]

Might be onto something there.. Couple of years ago I asked if anyone else noticed the SBR cars seemed to be a bit richer than other Falcons. Last year the 888 cars appeared to me to be richer as well, now the FPR cars....

I think thats what you mean by "fuellie":D

That's it, I did notice Lowndes was the same yesterday!

What a BORING weekend of racing.
I drove up from Melb with two mates, spent in total $300, and drove home all vowing never to waste that kind of time and money on that BORING crap again!

I must say, I'm glad I didn't go, 12 - 14 hour day for one race :mad: (two if you include the party trick) isn't worth it! It's good for the locals but, I've always thought Winton is a far better TV track!

Even watching it on the box I think Dicky's comment a few years back saying "Winton is like racing around the cloths line" is very true! :(

[Leigh]

Saturdays race was a great one trackside, with Bright, Whincup and Lowndes scrapping for track position (we didn't know at the time that Whincup was a lap down...Hence the phone call Brad).

One of the great advantages of Winton is that you can see the two separate races on the track between those who have pitted, and those who havn't...unlike other tracks where they get inter-mingled...

Reverse grid aside, I don't understand the "boring" brand on the second race as Lowndes charged through and passed 5-6 cars on track! He was not the only one either! Although we did find a rather loud speaker to sit under on Sunday which assisted with the interpretation of what was happening on-track;)

[Tumbo]

Go the HSV boys, 1 & 2.They've gotta love that.:)


I guess this means we are in for the annual visit from the McLarenF1xxx to tell us how he was right and Kelly is the greatest being ever born of this earth :rolleyes: Good to see Tander finally getting the luck rolling his way championship wise :)

[VXfan]

I guess this means we are in for the annual visit from the McLarenF1xxx to tell us how he was right and Kelly is the greatest being ever born of this earth :rolleyes: Good to see Tander finally getting the luck rolling his way championship wise :)
Yes,Rick 'The Legend' Kelly living up to his promise eh?:D
Cheers,
Tony.

[Leigh]

So amongst all the hype around reverse grids, there is nobody in the top 10 of the championship that I would not expect to be there...the two that are further down than expected are Skaife and Toddler, although theu have had a lot of bad luck this year, and have not really been "on the pace" at every round...that said, Skaife still leads the championship after dropping his worst round;)

Cheers

[awawaw]

To be honest, I'm losing interest in the V8 Superbore series (apart from Bathurst of course). I was more interested in the Biante Series this week-end.
That Paul Stubber Camaro is quite simply the most entertaining vehicle in Australian motorsport.


so what's new? those cars will alway be great to watch. i hope the group c masters series gets off the ground.

[wayno]

so what's new? those cars will alway be great to watch. i hope the group c masters series gets off the ground.

A Group C race around Bathurst would be a lot of fun as a support category I'm sure.
A pity the cars have to be all original for Group C. I would love to see cars like the Bartlett Camaro being driven like they were meant to be, but being such a unique vehicle I know this will never happen.
Replicas built to a very tight set of rules racing might be the answer?

[Buffalo]

A Group C race around Bathurst would be a lot of fun as a support category I'm sure.
A pity the cars have to be all original for Group C. I would love to see cars like the Bartlett Camaro being driven like they were meant to be, but being such a unique vehicle I know this will never happen.
Replicas built to a very tight set of rules racing might be the answer?

Maybe Group C could become the new Group N ! .... Group N cars can be built as replica's and as a natural historical progression the Group C cars would be fantastic to see belting around a track ... who cares if they are original or not !!

[AmonFan]

Group C replica's wont happen , there is enough in house politics in that class as it is ;)

[Holden2003]

The Best thing about Winton was there was on 20000 less people then Shanghai. Thats a small price to pay to keep our product where it belongs!

[wayno]

The Best thing about Winton was there was on 20000 less people then Shanghai. Thats a small price to pay to keep our product where it belongs!

I haven't seen any crowd figures I must admit, but how many seats were being filled at Shanghai to make it look better?
Very hard to compare the two I think.

[brchi17]

I haven't seen any crowd figures I must admit, but how many seats were being filled at Shanghai to make it look better?
Very hard to compare the two I think.

apparently there was something near 64,000 for the weekend which was just over 20,000 more than the last time the V8's raced there - this was said towards the end of the ch.10 telecast ;)

[toad]

Maybe Group C could become the new Group N ! .... Group N cars can be built as replica's and as a natural historical progression the Group C cars would be fantastic to see belting around a track ... who cares if they are original or not !!

I totally agree, this would be an absolutley awsome spectacle to watch if they were driven as hard as the fast Group N cars.

[wayno]

Is it just me, or does anyone think Mark Skaife looks like a different driver this year. Winton was a case in point. His car wasn't good and he had a bit of adversity, but still plugged away and scored a decent swag of points. Last year I feel this was the sort of round where everything would have gone pear shaped for him.

[brchi17]

Is it just me, or does anyone think Mark Skaife looks like a different driver this year. Winton was a case in point. His car wasn't good and he had a bit of adversity, but still plugged away and scored a decent swag of points. Last year I feel this was the sort of round where everything would have gone pear shaped for him.

Perhaps Mark has changed his mind set from trying to win races (& often crashing in the process) to trying to get a good points haul (aka, doing an Ingall).

Or are we starting to see the pressure relieved from the presence of Uncle Tom starting to make the difference ???

[toad]

Maybe he is consolidating for the team...taking less risks...as Kelly is have such a bad run

[singer]

Maybe he is consolidating for the team...taking less risks...as Kelly is have such a bad run

Which Kelly? They both appear to be having a BAD run

[HRT 1-2]

Which Kelly? They both appear to be having a BAD run

I wouldn't call sitting second in the championship having a bad run;)

I think the change in fortune for MS was strongly tied in with the return of Uncle Tom and started last year! I think three out of four cars at the pointy end is testament to that!

I'm not sure Mark is just going for points rather than winning, after all he's won 4 races!

As far as Todd is concerned, I'm not sure what he could done at Winton, when you have a dill pull out on the track in front of you and the wheel nut broke! Is it really fair to get a drive through due to the wheel nut failing? If it was crew error, fair enough:confused:

[inter]

Is it just me, or does anyone think Mark Skaife looks like a different driver this year. Winton was a case in point. His car wasn't good and he had a bit of adversity, but still plugged away and scored a decent swag of points. Last year I feel this was the sort of round where everything would have gone pear shaped for him.



I think they have finally figured out that if your car is fast enough and you race like Ingall did last year you will win the championship.

show how bad the point score system is

inter

[wayno]

I think they have finally figured out that if your car is fast enough and you race like Ingall did last year you will win the championship.

show how bad the point score system is

inter

I think this is a big part of it, but I also think the pressure being off with wee Tom being back has been great for Skaifey.
I just hope he can keep it up. He's leading on corrected points, but another really bad round will hurt him immensely as he has no margin for error now.

[Tumbo]

Perhaps his recent outings will help him keep his head. Its one thing to have no margin for error but a different situation when you are running hot nand coming off solid performances; you stop questioning yourself and find your groove much faster. Skaife just has to stay out of trouble in the damn reverse grid races

[brchi17]

.....As far as Todd is concerned, I'm not sure what he could done at Winton, when you have a dill pull out on the track in front of you and the wheel nut broke! Is it really fair to get a drive through due to the wheel nut failing? If it was crew error, fair enough:confused:

don't forget all those gearboxes he's had that keep breaking 4th gear :eek: !!!

Either he's become extremely tough on cars or perhaps they've bought a bad batch of gearboxes, which seem strange considering it's only Todd that keeps breaking them......

Also I seem to remember another car breaking 4th gear on the weekend at Wintons, I just can't remember which team it was.....

[toddy05]

Winterbottom had lost 4th too I think I heard Cromley say....

[HRT 1-2]

Winterbottom had lost 4th too I think I heard Cromley say....

Yes it was Frosty the Cromley mentioned in race three when Rick and GT passed him. He raised the question about what is going on with the boxes because by the sounds of it, it hasn't been limited to Todd and Frosty?

[brchi17]

Yes it was Frosty the Cromley mentioned in race three when Rick and GT passed him. He raised the question about what is going on with the boxes because by the sounds of it, it hasn't been limited to Todd and Frosty?

I hope these issues don't cause the sequential debate to rise up again......these cars are way too close to all being the same as it is. At least with the old H patten there is still the chance of driver error & thus providing another overtaking chance.

[spoonster05]

don't forget all those gearboxes he's had that keep breaking 4th gear :eek: !!!

Either he's become extremely tough on cars or perhaps they've bought a bad batch of gearboxes, which seem strange considering it's only Todd that keeps breaking them......

Also I seem to remember another car breaking 4th gear on the weekend at Wintons, I just can't remember which team it was.....

Just on the gearox issue I was wondering if HRT are using a different manufacturers set of gears this year and thats what's causing it.

Obviously the gearbox housing and gear ratios are controlled but is there anything in the regs regarding the gears having to be a certain brand ?

[Buffalo]

I thought all the gearboxes were made by Hollinger ...

[spoonster05]

The gearbox casing must be identical to the samples retained by TEGA (eg the Hollinger model XXX), but as long as the the gears themselves meet minimum weight requirements, are the approved ratios and the car has 6 forward gears it is legal.

There is no list of suppliers specified so this must be an area where there are freedoms providing they match the correct specs

[xtragrouse]

Im not totally sure its the reverse grids, i think its much to do with the lack of talent on the grid.

I have been following the "debate" on reverse grid with interest for some time, and felt that I haven't seen anyone come up with an argument to support anything that they have said that makes sense.

It appears that everyone has their favourite driver and team, and that if they are denied the chance to race in fair competition, then the concept is wrong.

Let's examine a few things.

The "best" drivers get to drive the "best" cars. So they are the superstars. What if we put some of the "lesser" fancied drivers into those cars, and the "superstars" into lesser cars - I wonder how the racing and grids would pan out.

Under the current format, the "Superstars" get to race from the front, and so are not subjected to the tangle at the back caused by the "lesser" drivers, and thus, can run in "clean air" and accumulate points so that they maintain their "superstar" status.

We have just witnessed our third reverse grid race, and we had carnage. But who caused it? Larry complained `about $24k damage to one of his cars, but excuse me, wasn't it Richo who drove Junior into the back of Courtney, and then drove across the track in front of Todd. The carnage happened at the REAR of he field and was caused by the "superstar" drivers - not a "lesser" driver in sight - did someone mention lack of talent on the grid?

This is a drivers championship. I would have thought hat if a driver wants to be considered a champion driver, then he should be able to demonstrate that he can drive fast at the front of the field in "equal" machinery, has the ability to orchestrate an overtaking manouvre without pushing his competition off the track, and be able to work his way from the rear of the field to an advantageous position by demonstrating superior driving skills and patience.

Champion drivers of the past (Brock, Moffet, Johnson and others) have been able to race nose to tail, wheel to wheel with nary a scratch. These days in equal machinery, the drivers don't seem to have that ability.

Reverse grid racing should compact the field and allow closer racing - not the runaway stuff we see because some teams have bigger budgets than others. Racing is racing. It doesn't matter who is in front - most of the best racing always happens in the middle of the field anyway.

To my way of thinking, the racing is not the problem, it's the fans who are the problem, and the afore mentioned lack of talent on the track, and I don't mean the "lesser" drivers.

Accidents and panel damage are always going to be a part of motor racing - We have seen more prangs in normal grids this season than reverse grid. It is a concept, it tests the drivers and the teams, and it is entertaining

Get over it

I can see that Kenseth17 and Goodwrench3 are going to get into me over this, and I daresay a lot of others as well. I am looking forward to a giggle as I read the responses.

[Martin Thomas]

The carnage thing isn't what frustrates me, street circuits do more damage IMHO. It's just to me it seems against the whole concept of competition. Remember that superstars in super cars still get amoungst the lesser drivers due to pit stops.

I wonder if the better drivers should approach every pass as they would a top driver and lesser drivers should not try to compensate if a better driver is behind them. It could be a case of both drivers driving "unnaturally" that can cause some problems.

As for Richards punting Johnson, you can't blame him for that. It was Courtney stuffing up a passing manouver...

But you definitely raise some good points..

[Holden2003]

Xtragrouse, I am going to giver you credit for putting your view up. Takes guts but I am not in agreeance with it.

I admit I have my Favourites, Skaife and Murph, but what I look for motorsport is a good close scrap. I like to see teams do everything to win, from spending time testing, to qualifying well, to avoiding incidents, making right pit calls, executing perfect pitstops, doing amazing passes (McConville on R Kelly, Winton 04) and just dominating the series.

Motorsport, like any sport, is about being on top in the end. Reverse grids for me is an unnecessary condition for drivers to overcome winning the weekend. They have to start in an unnecessary grid spot, make unnecessary passes, incurr unnnecessary accidents (T Kelly hitting steven Richards). I admit there have been some good scraps in reverse grids, but why can't we see these good scraps at the front of the race, with drivers going for the win???

For me this year there have been a singnificant no of teams of drivers increasing performance. HSVDT, JDR, 888 and FPR are all championship and round winning contenders while Tasman and WPS have improved, significantly. Winterbottom, Whincup, Jason Richards and Paul Dumbrell have improved hugely, while guys like Steve Owen and Will Davidson are doing some impressive drives. I would like to see all of these guys perform under normal conditions and compete at the top level.

Reverse Grid racing has taken the fizz out of racing. You have a brilliant first race, then the sideshow, before the main act comes out for the final time. We want to see brilliant racing, which is definetely going to happen with the teams being more competitive then ever, at the front of the grid, with everyone going all guns blazes to win. We don't want to see drivers to win championships with mediocre drives (Ingall 05). WE WANT TO SEE BALLS!

[Tumbo]

At the end of the day the reverse grid prevents drivers from taking the risks which make a title fight more enjoyable. It becomes more like tactics than actual racing- Garth Tander's comments earlier in the yr about not bothering to pass cars at the end of race 1 just to get 5 points when he would have to pass them again is a key issue. Rally has suffered the same problem (kinda fixed now) as the title leaders are first on road, and in places like Australia where first is road sweeper its a disadvantage to be leading. Now how is that fair, equitable and part of good racing?

[brchi17]

At the end of the day the reverse grid prevents drivers from taking the risks ....

Sorry but I can't agree with this. I believe it's the whole 2 point incentive (1 point in reverse grid races) for gaining a spot one place higher that is to blame.

[xtreem2001]

Xtragrouse,
Having just watched race 2 from Winton again this afternoon on Foxtel (without the adds) I have to agree with you. Most of the carnage in that race was due to "brain fade" and not the fact that the quicker cars were coming from behind. I wasn't a fan of the reverse grid format, but to be honest I have not seen anything in those races that doesn't happen in the conventional races.
I agree that both Skaife and T Kelly really must avoid those "black cats" because they sure as hell dont have the luck BUT Skaife copped similar grief last year from a 2 time champion whilst starting from the front row of the grid.
It was also interesting to note that Bright apologised to his team for getting a puncture. He assumed another driver was going to give him room. Was that assumption based on the fact that he had won race one and therefore expected everyone else to simply move over. I think there are a handful of drivers who expect that treatment in the reverse grid races and then there are the "better drivers" who drive to the conditions. Oh, and of course then there is HRT who simply cant take a trick when it comes to the addage "right place / wrong time".

[Tumbo]

Sorry but I can't agree with this. I believe it's the whole 2 point incentive (1 point in reverse grid races) for gaining a spot one place higher that is to blame.

I'd say its prolly a 60-40 decision favouring your take; but thats just me, and I like to be different lol

[xtreem2001]

I will add to my previous post that the points system is ultimately the biggest "no brainer" to the series. Without such a complicated system and a bigger reward for first there would be no need for the "reverse grid" fiasco because ALL the teams would be trying to win the conventional races and as such we the fans would be rewarded with close hard racing without the need for "circus acts".

[xtragrouse]

[QUOTE=Martin Thomas]

I wonder if the better drivers should approach every pass as they would a top driver and lesser drivers should not try to compensate if a better driver is behind them. It could be a case of both drivers driving "unnaturally" that can cause some problems.

As for Richards punting Johnson, you can't blame him for that. It was Courtney stuffing up a passing manouver...

QUOTE]

You are right re the Richards/Johnson/Courtney thing, and from memory, it was Bright who punted Richards in the Todd Kelly incident. You initial comment is also on the money.

Tumbo says "At the end of the day the reverse grid prevents drivers from taking the risks which make a title fight more enjoyable" - It seems to me that the Drivers ARE taking the risks at the back of the field, or just aren't up to playing in a crowded field.

What are we really going to watch at a race meeting. I notice that many of you are paul Stubber fans. Is it really that exciting, watching this guy admittedly throwing his car around, but on his own half a lap in front of everyone else - and I love watching Stubber

Tumbo also states "It becomes more like tactics than actual racing- Garth Tander's comments earlier in the yr about not bothering to pass cars at the end of race 1 just to get 5 points when he would have to pass them again is a key issue." Shame on Tander - I don't think the Skaifes, Lowndes and Murphys of the world hold back - they want to win regardless - as did Ambrose (unfortunately, we won't get to see how he would have handled the reverse grid scenario). If nothing else, Ambrose, Skaife, Lowndes and Murphy are racers, and as such are always going to come to grief at some stage. Love him or Hate him, the series doesn't seem quite the same without Ambrose in the mix. having said that, All races nowadays seem to be tactical unless you happen to be in front and having a sniff at the lead, and it is strange that the excitement of the racing seems to be leveled at the order the cars wind up in after a pit stop. It is getting very much like F1, where you stay awake until the pit stops then go to bed, knowing the potential result (if the cars don't blow up). The points system IS too close, but apparently at the end of last year, when the field was scrutinised with all existing points systems, the results were very similar.

Holden2003 comments "For me this year there have been a singnificant no of teams of drivers increasing performance. HSVDT, JDR, 888 and FPR are all championship and round winning contenders while Tasman and WPS have improved, significantly. Winterbottom, Whincup, Jason Richards and Paul Dumbrell have improved hugely" Would these guys be "as good" if they were still in lesser competitive cars. Would some of our top drivers be "as good" if relegated to "lesser competitive" cars.

Xtreem2001 states "BUT Skaife copped similar grief last year from a 2 time champion whilst starting from the front row of the grid" - let's not get into that, MS punted Richo of at the bottom of the hill the previous year at the same track, and gave Lowndes a serve at Eastern Creek on another occasion just before his Ingall incident. These guys create their own luck (or perceived lack of it). You live by the sword, and you die by the sword.

I guess with this lot, I am in deeper ****...........oh well.

[brchi17]

I'd say its prolly a 60-40 decision favouring your take; but thats just me, and I like to be different lol

Very true, it's not just one thing that is the problem, it's the bigger picture.

I believe reverse grid racing has to go (& voted that way in another thread). We also need some incentive for the drivers to want to pass. 2 points is simply not enough for a driver to take a chance & make a move in the final lap/s of a race.

Creating a more incentive based points system would in itself improve the racing for the viewing public. I suppose my grievance towards reverse grids is that it's fake, contrived racing.

This is due to it having drivers who do not deserve to be in the lead leading & those who succeed are penalised for their success. For me, in my book of racing I think that is wrong.

[spoonster05]

I agree, there needs to be more points for winning and for taking chances later in the races.

They could start issuing points for most laps led, fastest lap, most positions made up, etc but once again this gets back to a confusing points system.

But something really needs to be done to make sure that the driver who is fastest and wins the most races in a season is actually the champion..

[toddy05]

an original idea, someone from V8SC stands at each gate and for every fan coming through the gate with specific driver or team wear merchandise on those drivers and teams would get points allotted to them.....Just as much a lottery as the current system and it at least gives the fans what they want seen as how it is entertainment after all, it would be different if it was sport and all about elite sporting performances......

[toddy05]

hey another one, we could even have a gate prize of one luck fan being the IPO for the race.....for all those informed and good decisions....

[Leigh]

Xtragrouse...a couple of very good posts, and I can't say I disagree with anything you've written...

I especially have to agree with your Stubber comment.

For contrived racing, can people please give an example of anybody in the top 10 of the championship who should not be there...contrived racing/lottery etc should mean that backmarkers can get in...

The points system is a completely seperate issue that has plagued the category for several seasons...BUT a true racer (and some of you want to see true racing) races for position...an example was Whincup (a lap down) in Race 1, who we thought was racing for the lead as why else would he have been battling with Lowndes and Bright...not one single point to be gained, and it was one of the better on-track battles I've seen in some time!

[xtreem2001]

Leigh,
I agree with your sentiments completely. The issues surrounding the V8's are a lot more complicated than the actual drivers not wanting to race. You only have to listen to the "in car" commentary to understand that the teams themselves are basing their weekends on "points" rather than good hard racing. It must be frustrating for a "racer" like Lowndes to be told that it doesn't matter if he lets Bright past as he has already won the round. There HAS to be MORE incentive for actually being first past the post and NOT simply putting in a consistent weekend to gather points.
We saw a similar scenario in WA when Skaife was the stand out driver in 2 of the 3 races but didn't accumulate enough points to be the round winner. Blaming it on the reverse grid is very harsh when you consider we have also had some "shocking" calls from the officials as well. Jumped starts, racing incidents and pit lane infringements are also areas that need to be better defined if the V8's are to move forward. Hosting rounds outside Australia will never succeed if the majority of "Aussie fans" have no idea of what the hell is going on in their own backyard. Imagine trying to explain some of the decisions to a NASCAR fan or even a Formula one stalwart for that matter.
What in reality SHOULD NOT be that hard to officiate has become MORE complicated with every season and UNLESS the organisers stop trying to "please the fans" and encourage actual racing I can see this series becoming too damm hard for the average fan and a "breakaway series" is not beyond the realms of possibility. It has been done before and may well happen again.

[wayno]

[quote=xtragrouseWhat are we really going to watch at a race meeting. I notice that many of you are paul Stubber fans. Is it really that exciting, watching this guy admittedly throwing his car around, but on his own half a lap in front of everyone else - and I love watching Stubber.[/quote]

I still think Paul Stubber half a lap in front (and this does not happen as often as everyone thinks) is more exciting than most V8 races I've seen. This is simply because the car is an animal. It makes the right noise, slides around and looks like it's flying every lap. V8's go like they're on rails and it can get tiresome.

[AmonFan]

I still think Paul Stubber half a lap in front (and this does not happen as often as everyone thinks) is more exciting than most V8 races I've seen. This is simply because the car is an animal. It makes the right noise, slides around and looks like it's flying every lap. V8's go like they're on rails and it can get tiresome.

Easy fix, we get the Fords and Holdens out of the Performance Car Series and give them 650 BHP ;) and then we'll see some sideways motoring....

[brchi17]

Anyone heard anything about the meeting that was supposed to be taking place today about some of the teams lobbying to have the reverse grid races scrapped ???

Also, an interesting point (with reverse grid racing being apparently so popular with the greater public) is that Winton scored pretty poorly in the ratings, I wonder how VESA will spin this news....

[wayno]

Anyone heard anything about the meeting that was supposed to be taking place today about some of the teams lobbying to have the reverse grid races scrapped ???

Also, an interesting point (with reverse grid racing being apparently so popular with the greater public) is that Winton scored pretty poorly in the ratings, I wonder how VESA will spin this news....

I'm waiting for Sports Tonight because the news on the net for aussie motorsport is next to useless. Probably will not say anything, but worth a try.
Brad, VESA will do what they normally do-coat the whole thing in sugar or ignore it completely.

[Tumbo]

how about

"with fans so overwhelmed by the socceroos preparation for the world cup they simply forgot to watch the race. Reverse grid will remain while we increase advertising"

of course all ads will be banned for promoting bad driving :rolleyes:

[lukey73]

There is an interesting note in Auto Action claiming that it was CH X pushing to have reverse grids and not V8SA. Now if thats the case and the ratings are poor then they cant blame anyone but themselves.

They way things are going the best thing that could happen to the series is for it to go to Ch Rex and get away from this contrived racing format that does nothing.

Maybe V8SA will finally listen to people and fix the points system too. The other thing i noted was they are planning to a visit to NASCAR land to see how they do things. I and some other members of this forum could save them the business class airfares and travel expenses by giving them what is really needed to fix the series. Descent points spread no reverse grids more race action and a better TV coverage ALL year not just around Bathurst.

But what would we know we only follow the sport! :D

[wayno]

Next will be control chassis and silhouettes. Noise has been made about this before. I can't see what more they will gather from a visit to the US (apart from a tax-deductable holiday for Bernie Jnr and company).
Hope they don't go NASCAR with the points. Champion scores about 20 thousand points over a year and we'd have a 'chase for the championship'. :rolleyes:
Sh*t - now I'm REALLY scared! :eek:

[Leigh]

Bugger, just found this out

I think a few of us involved with Winton will be kicking ourselves for not letting everyone know that you can tune a radio into 87.6 FM to pick up the commentary and that if you have a portable TV you can watch the on track broadcast on UHF28 & the live timing on UHF31.

[malscar]

Next will be control chassis and silhouettes. :eek:

With the chassis idea, one was actually presented to the team owners at PI last year by AVESCO or whatever it is this week. Have not heard much more on it since.

[brchi17]

With the chassis idea, one was actually presented to the team owners at PI last year by AVESCO or whatever it is this week. Have not heard much more on it since.

it's been scraped.

[Leigh]

it's been scraped.
I think you mean scrapped...

[brchi17]

I think you mean scrapped...

dam you spell checker (shaking fist:mad:) doh :o !!!!!

[Leigh]

dam you spell checker (shaking fist:mad:) doh :o !!!!!
damn?:D

[fomoco04]

I think you mean scrapped...

I think he meant they scraped it into the bin where it belongs:D

[wayno]

Bugger, just found this out

I don't think we would have had room anyway Leigh! :D
If Winton is on next year it will be trailer and generator so we can have the wonders of tv though! :cool:

[brchi17]

I don't think we would have had room anyway Leigh! :D
If Winton is on next year it will be trailer and generator so we can have the wonders of tv though! :cool:

sounds like it's going to be a massive IF :eek: !!!

I don't understand why if it was so popular why they can't return. I mean what have they got to replace it with anyway ???

Oran Park's days are numbered so the v8's will be back to Eastern Creek soon enough & I can't see a street race happening in Sydney for years, if ever. Plus if Carins ever gets it's street race it will be a few years off, so unless they are going to cut back the calendar, why can't Winton stay ???