Holden Time To Wake Up!!

[troym]

having watched the horror of skaife's early exit on sunday was only topped by the interview with skaife & seeing the dissapointment on his face & how badly he wanted to win that race, fact is he was only really one of 2 cars that could have won it for holden, the kelly's being the other, i wonder how the execs at holden must feel now that in the last 2 endurance races & the 2006 championship the drivers that beat holden both used to drive for holden, look who holden have let go in the last few years,
lowndes
ingall
barg's
bright
whincup
Courtney
& probably soon steven richards, fact is the perkins/supercheap racing/GRM racing just don't cut it, sure they are up there but you only have to look at the comparison from the blue oval,

SBR
FPR
888
WPS

all of these teams are getting stronger, the pressure on skaife is immense as he is one of the few drivers who can actually race these guys, you can't be successful when you loose the list of drivers above, & what bet jeff grech turns up at the blue oval?? lets face it us holden fans a facing a 4th straight ford championsip win, time some of the holden execs woke up & realised what they have thrown away, hope 2007 turns around i cannot stand to loose another $500 bet :( :( by the way well done lowndes if a ford had to win i am glad it was him

[Holden2003]

Well Lowndes, Ingall, Bargs had long stints with Holden, enjoying Bathurst wins and Championship wins in Lowndes Case. Whincup was a loss, Courtney only had 2 rounds in HRT & was not expecting to stay in V8s & Bright was Ford to begin with. Drivers do chop and change.

Holden do have an ability to uncover drivers better then ford. Whincup, Courtney, Briscoe, Lowndes, Ingall, Tander & Kelly Bros were all picked up by Holden, with Garry Rogers having a very good success rate at picking some of them. They got Shane Price and Jack Perkins looking like future successes if their current driving skill at this age are this good.

I do agree that it seems too much is invested in HRT/HSV. Holden does need to rotate its resources. SCAR decided to pull out of HMS and it was their fault. Ron Harrop needs to expand his operation to another team to make it viable.

[Nathan Rzepecki]

by the way well done lowndes if a ford had to win i am glad it was him

I second that comment. It was earn't.

[troym]

i think the biggest thing holden need to realise is that they do develop young stars but this is more than a race now, it is a business & the winning side of it produces $$$$$ yet they seem happy to let good drivers go, the $$$$ lowndes pulled for them in both merchandise & selling cars showed ford what he was worth, i remember a comment mark skaie said about john crennan when he tried to coax skaife to hrt, he said SKAIFEY I JUST WANT TO BUILD THE BEST RACING TEAM & PUT A GREAT BIG FENCE AROUND IT, OBVIOUSLY THE FENCE WASN'T HIGH ENOUGH!!!

[rusky26]

[QUOTE=Holden2003;161520]

Holden do have an ability to uncover drivers better then ford. Whincup, Courtney, Briscoe, Lowndes, Ingall, Tander & Kelly Bros were all picked up by Holden, with Garry Rogers having a very good success rate at picking some of them. They got Shane Price and Jack Perkins looking like future successes if their current driving skill at this age are this good.[QUOTE]

You can't really add Courtney and Briscoe to your list, they both have international success before going near a V8 Supercar....... just nitpicking :)

[Holden2003]

You can't really add Courtney and Briscoe to your list, they both have international success before going near a V8 Supercar....... just nitpicking :)

Fair Comment. They were the manufacturer that did introduce them into V8's and who knows if Ryan ends up in V8s. My guess is that Ryan will be team with Tagliani in Team Australia next year in Champcar. Its pure speculation on my behalf. Lets wait 2 weeks and we'll see.

[brchi17]

Gee I looked at the heading of this thread & thought it must be about wanting Holden to get rid of Todd Kelly....he is a waste of a good seat & if he continues to drive like he did on Sunday, then he can't go soon enough....

Rick drove really well, but every time he got the car back from big brother Todd, it was in a worse position that it was when it was given to him :rolleyes:

[xtreem2001]

Geez, that is a bit tough on the Toddler. He was co-driver in a foreign team that happens to also include his younger brother. Add to that the fact that Rick has a good shot at the championship and I think Todd did a great job. There would have been a lot of pressure on Todd, not just via the team but also the rest of the Kelly family. If you run a comparison with Tander at HRT I think you will find he was slower than Skaife as well.

IMO Toddler is the one showing loyalty here. He got pushed into what in theory is the second tier team for the enduros and placed second in both races. His reward?? He gets to go back to his original team and can look forward to more mechanical failures. Toddler is not the problem. TW is.

[sleepy]

to tell u the truth with this supercar concept i really dont think holden would be worried about fords winning races to much, as these cars are so far removed from the road going cars...its not like the seventies where the car companys built road cars to sell and use on the track..

[Leigh]

Geez, that is a bit tough on the Toddler. He was co-driver in a foreign team that happens to also include his younger brother. Add to that the fact that Rick has a good shot at the championship and I think Todd did a great job. There would have been a lot of pressure on Todd, not just via the team but also the rest of the Kelly family. If you run a comparison with Tander at HRT I think you will find he was slower than Skaife as well.

IMO Toddler is the one showing loyalty here. He got pushed into what in theory is the second tier team for the enduros and placed second in both races. His reward?? He gets to go back to his original team and can look forward to more mechanical failures. Toddler is not the problem. TW is.
Not a fair comparison...Tander didn't get a go under race setup...but under qualifying setup, he did post the quickest time for the weekend...but this is also unfair because it was probably done on green tyres...

Todd was down 1-2 sec per lap on Rick...granted his job was to keep the car straight and not wreck his teammates chance at the championship, but that was the job of many co-drivers who could manage times within a few tenths of the lead driver.

Coming past Sulman, Todd was noticibly slower than most of the field, and not taking the fast racing line...

[wayno]

Agree Leigh. Todd seemed to be off the pace most of the week, and on race day he just looked out of his depth.
But Whincup was also on a mission which didn't help him look good.

[CrankMYshaft]

having watched the horror of skaife's early exit on sunday was only topped by the interview with skaife & seeing the dissapointment on his face & how badly he wanted to win that race, fact is he was only really one of 2 cars that could have won it for holden, the kelly's being the other, i wonder how the execs at holden must feel now that in the last 2 endurance races & the 2006 championship the drivers that beat holden both used to drive for holden, look who holden have let go in the last few years,
lowndes
ingall
barg's
bright
whincup
Courtney
& probably soon steven richards, fact is the perkins/supercheap racing/GRM racing just don't cut it, sure they are up there but you only have to look at the comparison from the blue oval,

SBR
FPR
888
WPS

all of these teams are getting stronger, the pressure on skaife is immense as he is one of the few drivers who can actually race these guys, you can't be successful when you loose the list of drivers above, & what bet jeff grech turns up at the blue oval?? lets face it us holden fans a facing a 4th straight ford championsip win, time some of the holden execs woke up & realised what they have thrown away, hope 2007 turns around i cannot stand to loose another $500 bet :( :( by the way well done lowndes if a ford had to win i am glad it was him

Just sour grapes... Its not our fault you piss away your money in such a manner.

[ferrari fan]

Nothing to do with ability, just who is able and willing to put up the $$ or is a son of a team owner.
It is a ruthless buissnes where the $$ talk and talent is very much second best.

[Kenseth17]

One thing fans tend to overlook is the job given to each driver at the enduro's.Todd Kelly is class and has been treated like **** this year and previous by his team.He looked miserable at Wanneroo and things have not got much better for him as his equipment has constantly let him down.He had a job to do at Sandown and Bathurst and he did it well in Rick's car, Rick's team and Rick's Championship bid.I would have him in a Ford in an instant because I can see his worth - like Lowndes, Ingall and Whincup. These guys have never been treated better and have never been happier in their lives. All have said so themselves.

Certain guys are starting to slip in the category and will need some good results for the remainder of this year and next or Father Time will catch up....but Todd Kelly ain't one of them.

[GRPIII]

Well Lowndes, Ingall, Bargs had long stints with Holden, enjoying Bathurst wins and Championship wins in Lowndes Case. Whincup was a loss, Courtney only had 2 rounds in HRT & was not expecting to stay in V8s & Bright was Ford to begin with.
gary rodges actually gave bright his first v8 supercar drive in 97 at symonns plains.

[GRPIII]

maybe ford & the general motorsport fanbase should thank holden for unearthing all this talent, they put it all on the line years ago by giving all young guys ago, without that we may be still watching dicky, lp, seto, bowe & so on, the sport has thrived on the young talent.
holden unearthed most of it, but who the hell are they going to keep them all.

[Kenseth17]

At the end of the day, you could argue till the cows come home that whatever driver has driven for a manufacturer longer should be the way we see them or whoever thay started with etc etc.How would we classify Jim Richards when he has has driven for everybody? In a few years we could see Craig Lowndes with another Bathurst which would be 1 more than in a Holden and a few Titles - so how do you call that? Jamie Whincup did not only slip through Garry Rogers (who has a habit of doing this) but also Tasman. Roland Dane saw a chance to grab his talent hardly believing he was available and look at his Adelaide 500 and Bathurst 1000 drives along with the rest of his year and this is where Holden need to sharpen up their act. Roland called Whincup the next 'Lowndes' and you wonder, if this is the case, how the heck did he slip through the Lions paws?? A few years ago Holden had all the stars with some of Ford's getting older and the Blue Oval struggling. With some disenchanted Holden guys coming over to Ford and Ford products like Ambrose, Winterbottom and Will Davison either dominating or in the case of the last two, on the rise, the tide is in their favour right now. There will be a day when the Lion fights back, this is sport and is the nature of the beast, so the Blue Oval brigade need to be ready for it and need to keep winning as long as possible.

[rehau]

Gee I looked at the heading of this thread & thought it must be about wanting Holden to get rid of Todd Kelly....he is a waste of a good seat & if he continues to drive like he did on Sunday, then he can't go soon enough....

Rick drove really well, but every time he got the car back from big brother Todd, it was in a worse position that it was when it was given to him :rolleyes:


lap times were .2 sec apart

[wayno]

lap times were .2 sec apart

Constantly? I doubt it.

[1370]

Was that between the Kelly boys?

Cos Toddler was significantly slower compared to Whincup....

[jediholden]

At the end of the day, you could argue till the cows come home that whatever driver has driven for a manufacturer longer should be the way we see them or whoever thay started with etc etc.How would we classify Jim Richards when he has has driven for everybody? In a few years we could see Craig Lowndes with another Bathurst which would be 1 more than in a Holden and a few Titles - so how do you call that? Jamie Whincup did not only slip through Garry Rogers (who has a habit of doing this) but also Tasman. Roland Dane saw a chance to grab his talent hardly believing he was available and look at his Adelaide 500 and Bathurst 1000 drives along with the rest of his year and this is where Holden need to sharpen up their act. Roland called Whincup the next 'Lowndes' and you wonder, if this is the case, how the heck did he slip through the Lions paws?? A few years ago Holden had all the stars with some of Ford's getting older and the Blue Oval struggling. With some disenchanted Holden guys coming over to Ford and Ford products like Ambrose, Winterbottom and Will Davison either dominating or in the case of the last two, on the rise, the tide is in their favour right now. There will be a day when the Lion fights back, this is sport and is the nature of the beast, so the Blue Oval brigade need to be ready for it and need to keep winning as long as possible.


You are spot on in your thoughts there kenseth. It is a changing of the guard at the moment and as a Holden man it pains me to see us constantly lose. But competition is what it's all about. Holden will win again one day and we'll back asking "whats happened to Ford"????

[whitlam]

You are spot on in your thoughts there kenseth. It is a changing of the guard at the moment and as a Holden man it pains me to see us constantly lose. But competition is what it's all about. Holden will win again one day and we'll back asking "whats happened to Ford"????


Its just like the rugby league with the Rabbitohs, they used to be one of the best teams and have won the most premierships but look at them now :rolleyes:

[jediholden]

Its just like the rugby league with the Rabbitohs, they used to be one of the best teams and have won the most premierships but look at them now :rolleyes:

I dont hink we'll hit that big a drought. but i see your point;) .

Sent you a pm as well.

[GTR XU-1]

Im not really a HRT fan anymore but you just wait till the next race, HRT will be there stronger than ever.

[awawaw]

gee. ford have won how many bathursts in the last ten years and how many championships in the last ten years? you lose one bathurst and 3 crowns and you start moaning. god, i hate one eyed supporters.

[Kenseth17]

gee. ford have won how many bathursts in the last ten years and how many championships in the last ten years? you lose one bathurst and 3 crowns and you start moaning. god, i hate one eyed supporters.

To be fair to the Holden fans it's probably magnified by Holden's success since 1999 onwards.There was a time Ford could not win a race in a round let alone a round proper. They were dark days but things changed. I am Ford through and through but no one stays on top forever. I don't think the Holden boys are whinging but they quite naturally are used to success or now some success so it is a hollow they have arrived at but not irreversible. If Lowndes can win the title then Ford will end up with the 'Grand Slam' in Adelaide, Sandown, Bathurst and Championship. That is a big turn around in 4 years so that magnifies it all.V8's have a terrific future and the VE and new Falcon will be rubbing paint in 2 years on the track together with the VE on track next year. I want to see a contest like the rest of us and we are getting that and will continue to get better ones in the future.

[xtreem2001]

It wasn't that far back that Ford had little or no interest in the V8's. That has changed significantly and while it was happening Holden have recycled a guy that effectively cant get a job anywhere else in the world due to his financial status.

I am currently reading Rossi's autobiography and there is a lot of similarity between Honda/Yamaha and Holden/Ford. As Rossi himself quotes in the book it is a lot more fun to be able to laugh and enjoy your work. Maybe TW has changed the working atmosphere at Holden and why so many drivers are looking for something that is less stressful.

The body language amongst the majority of Ford drivers is certainly more relaxed than that of their counterparts at Holden.

[gab73]

The body language amongst the majority of Ford drivers is certainly more relaxed than that of their counterparts at Holden.

I think this has something to do with the majority of them been based in sunny Queensland

[wayno]

If I had to go testing at Qld Raceway that would make me depressed! :D

[Timshaw]

My Bathurst loss equals $35.00 for a slab! Don't bleat about it being someone else's fault cause you are $500 out of pocket on a wager!!! That would be a couple of models in the cabinet for me. I am also a Holden man and I stood and applauded when Lowndesy crossed the line!

[wayno]

I did as well. You're not a true race fan if you didn't.

[brchi17]

I did as well. You're not a true race fan if you didn't.

I can vouch for him on this one, I was there & saw wayno applauding a Ford - if only I got it on camera :D LOL :D !!!

[wayno]

I can vouch for him on this one, I was there & saw wayno applauding a Ford - if only I got it on camera :D LOL :D !!!

Wish you did, as not a lot of people believe me when I say that! Don't know why. :confused:

[sleepy]

To be fair to the Holden fans it's probably magnified by Holden's success since 1999 onwards. I think that should read from 1972 onwards lol........

[1370]

Not claiming the 1969 win, hey?

[Timshaw]

Or '68?

[VXfan]

or 1960?
ok,so it was a Vauxhall but still GM!(christ,I sound like an ex-member of this forum with a passion for corvettes:laugh3: )
Cheers,
Tony.

[CrankMYshaft]

Ex-member eh

[HRT 1-2]

It wasn't that far back that Ford had little or no interest in the V8's. That has changed significantly and while it was happening Holden have recycled a guy that effectively cant get a job anywhere else in the world due to his financial status.

I am currently reading Rossi's autobiography and there is a lot of similarity between Honda/Yamaha and Holden/Ford. As Rossi himself quotes in the book it is a lot more fun to be able to laugh and enjoy your work. Maybe TW has changed the working atmosphere at Holden and why so many drivers are looking for something that is less stressful.

The body language amongst the majority of Ford drivers is certainly more relaxed than that of their counterparts at Holden.

I don't see Uncle Tom having anything to do with drivers migrating since his return considering the cars under his control started flying and continue to be the only Holden’s consistently at the front so something’s working!

[Angrydad]

Ford had neglected Australian motorsport for a very long time, and had fallen behind the 8 ball. When they finally decided to come back in a big scale they had a lot of catching up to do, hence the big $$$ that have been rumoured to have been paid to some of the higher level Holden drivers to change camp. It seems to me like Holden have been caught napping a bit, and Ford seem to have gained the upper hand - although I must admit, the only thing that seems to hold back HRT at the moment is unbelievable bad luck!

[ferrari fan]

The harder one tries, the 'luckier' one gets!