Well it had to happen , Greenies on Motorsport

[lukey73]

I had this emailed to me earlier today:

There is a sport more dangerous than any other, that kills far more people than boxing and yet there are no calls for it to be banned.
Not rugby. Not equestrianism. Not even Ultimate Fighting. No, it's time to ban motorsport: not to save the drivers, who are probably at less risk of injury than footballers, but the rest of us.
Unless you're George Bush or another Halliburton henchman, you'll probably admit by now that the world is in severe danger. It's not a threat to our great-great-grandkids, something distant that will happen to someone else, but a real and present danger.
A couple of degrees more global warming will trigger catastrophe. We need to cut carbon emissions by 90% in the next 20 years or so. Cars that do 3.5 miles to the gallon are not unacceptable.
Motorsport is the most wasteful, harmful, pointless leisure pursuit on the planet. One F1 team has one-use-only wheel bolts that cost £600 each. They use about 1000 a season - such is the level of the eagerness to burn money and resources in the sport.
F1 cars - and we don't mean to pick on one branch of motorsport, but figures are more readily available - emit around 1500g of carbon dioxide per kilometre, almost nine times more than the average new road vehicle. Add in the hundreds of flights every team uses between testing and races and one recent estimate put each driver's carbon emissions for the eight-month season at 54 tonnes: more than 10 times as much as the average Briton emits in a year. That's not even counting other factors, such as the teams that have two wind tunnels running 24/7.
The faster the car, the faster it destroys the Earth - simple. Winning races and saving the planet are not compatible.
The industry is beginning to realise that their behaviour is unacceptable. NASCAR, the biggest sport in the USA, made sweeping changes to their fuel policy this season: they switched to unleaded. Seriously. The American Le Mans Series is switching to E10, a blend that is 10% corn-based ethanol (so that's just the 90% gasoline, then). The Indy Racing League is a bit better, with a fuel that's 98% ethanol. Over here, Lanarkshire Team Clyde Valley Racing, the only Scottish-owned professional team in the British Touring Car Championship, are on E85.
But biodiesel creates more problems than it solves. The price of food goes up greatly as land is used to grow crops for fuel rather than food. In some parts of Mexico the price of corn has increased 50% because of demand from biofuel producers. And the vast amounts of land necessary encourages the felling of tropical forests.
At the start of this season, Honda unveiled their new F1 car. Instead of the usual advertising and sponsor logos it has a picture of the Earth on it. Wow . . . it still does four miles to the gallon, right?
"Climate change is probably the single biggest issue facing our planet and F1 is not immune from it," trumpeted a statement from the team CEO. Ya think?
The response from one environmental group's spokesman was perfect: "We're not sure what painting an F1 car green will do for the planet, but it sounds rather like the definition of greenwash."
This practise of putting a positive spin on environmentally unsound behaviour is widespread. Oil companies spend hundreds of millions of pounds (a miniscule fraction of their profits) on adverts explaining how much they care about the planet while, er, not actually doing anything much. Motorsport is now catching up, pardon the pun.
Max Mosley, the president of the FIA (and son of British Fascist leader Sir Oswald, but that has nothing to do with this subject . . . probably) gave an interview last week on formula1.com, admitting that his sport must change.
"Formula One does not happen on another planet, so we have to adapt to reality," he said. "Cars that need 75 litres of fuel per 100 kilometres are no longer cool.
"The new FIA programme will lead Formula One into a new era. It's a matter of do or die!" (Their exclamation mark).
His plans - there were no details, just general waffle about CO2 - will, if accepted by the teams, come into effect by 2011. Hopefully, his tracks aren't covered by melted ice caps by then.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/headlines/display .var.1444283.0.0.php

[TAG05]

If I hear "Global Warming" or Carbon Emissions one more time I am about to splinter!!!! STOP.... Enough is enough, we all get it, but who really cares... I don't!!!!!
Drive those cars around the track as long and as far and with as much pollution as you see fit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brchi17]

admin, I think this blasphemous thread needs to be closed and it's poster banned :p :D :D :Dlol

[bargs35]

Well I, for one, care. Now don't get me wrong, I love motorsport as much as the next guy, and I think the media sometimes do go a bit overboard with it as it is a pretty easy article to write, with so much info available and what not, but its not the right approach to ignore it completely. Massive changes WILL need to be made to motorsport if it is to continue, and its not a matter of if but when. After watching fifth gear the other day, bio-fuel doesnt look a half bad option, and from what I understand doesnt really require that much of a departure from the engines we all use now, just a conversion. Im from Newcastle, and I tell you what the weather over the past few days has simply been scary, let alone the poor people up in Maitland still copping it. If it comes to continuing motorsport or more of that weather, I can assure you, any right minded individual will get rid of motorsport in an instant.

[beast]

Ive got a question for the greenies.

How many trees did you cut down to get enough paper to draft that report?

[wayno]

I've got a statement for most greenies, and the second word is "off".

[BB]

Why don't they pick on horse racing. At least if a car breaks down they fix it or bench it. If a horse breaks down they shoot it:eek:

[toddy05]

how much petroleum based products goes into what the greenies use every day? What transport do they get around in? Yeah we need to manage the environment better but we are so heavily reliant on petrochemicals for all manner of other things that cars and motor racing are a drop in the pond so to speak.....

[Martin Thomas]

I'm staying out of this one... Except to mention the series 'Future car' that is running on foxtel at the moment. It's not as bad and scary and boring as we all think it will be. 'Real' cars should always have a place in motorsport, their emissions ARE a drop in the ocean. As for the billions of domestic cars, it can't go on..
Mind you, some of the 'green' performance cars they featured are far from boring. Plus they now have 'witricity'..... Yep, wireless electricity... Can power a 6o watt globe over 3 meters already... Its a brave, new world..

[Leigh]

Plus they now have 'witricity'..... Yep, wireless electricity... Can power a 6o watt globe over 3 meters already... Its a brave, new world..
How does that make it green???

Stick a globe in a microwave, and you don't need wires to make it glow;)

Flourescent globes also glow without electricity in areas like Maralinga...

[lukey73]

admin, I think this blasphemous thread needs to be closed and it's poster banned :p :D :D :Dlol


Gee thanks Brad, i was thinking we should all go a on nice holiday to the UK and have some words with journo concerned but wait the flight would release more of those nasty pollutants that he is so concerned about.

[beast]

Do the greenies have a head office in this country.

If they do, wonder how many cars are in the carpark.

[Nick Short]

Being a "greenie" doesn't mean having to live in a cave, eating moss and wearing dreadlocks. It just means thinking a bit more about how you use non-renewables like oil. During water restrictions you wouldn't leave your garden tap running 24 hours a day just to prove a point to those pesky people worried about water usage, would you? Even then we know that we're likely to get some rain so water isn't really non-renewable. If you only have a limited amount of something then it's not too clever to deliberately use it up faster to spite people who express concerns about it. Same goes for any resource, including money.......

It's almost impossible to not use petrochemicals, but you can use them smarter, more frugally, maybe get away from oil or coal-fired remote power stations and start building houses that generate a significant percentage of their own usage, getting away from energy losses in transmission. At least do SOMETHING rather than nothing.

As for motorsport, it will always be something that masses of people enjoy, so it will continue. There will come a day when it has to change (types of fuel, engine design etc), but it will continue. I was criticised for liking motorsport by someone who regularly flew on jaunts around the world, and who travelled to classical concerts all over the country, but of course to her that was OK......I don't have a problem with biofuel or diesel race cars, and if development of these cars leads to better efficiency and new technology then it has to be a benefit.

[Leigh]

Exactly Nick.

Strange that such an article should come out so close behind Bernie stating that F1 will go 100% biofuel in the not too distant future...

[Martin Thomas]

How does that make it green???

Electric cars suffer for having to carry heavy storage cells and also charging time, imagine the highway markers have electrical generators or emitters or whatever and you turn off your engine and use electricity to coast along without worrying about storage/recharge. 1 big 'green, or greener' power supply is better than a bunch cars in various states of tune burning their own fuel..

Stick a globe in a microwave, and you don't need wires to make it glow;)
Flourescent globes also glow without electricity in areas like Maralinga...

That may be so, but making the gas in a flouro work is no where near as interesting as being able to pass electricity wirelessly. Well, to me, anyway..;) besides, you seem to be stuck on the example of a globe whereas others are already looking at the bigger picture. Can you power your laptop in a microwave?
And I think you are quietly asking how safe would it be? I dont know, but its a start..

I saw a show on the study of how humans can put aside obvious risk while worrying about smaller issues..

[Holden2003]

What the greenies don't realise is that Formula 1 and other motorsport categories are the only sport that can actually contribute to stopping global warming. Due to their huge investments, they can find technologies that are more greener, which can be adopted to road cars.

I don't think tennis, swimming, golf, swimmming, athletics or any other sport can help global warming.

[Leigh]

Electric cars suffer for having to carry heavy storage cells and also charging time, imagine the highway markers have electrical generators or emitters or whatever and you turn off your engine and use electricity to coast along without worrying about storage/recharge. 1 big 'green, or greener' power supply is better than a bunch cars in various states of tune burning their own fuel..

Peolple have been thinking about that for a long time, but still all these scientists could achieve is lighting a light globe from a distance...something that has been achievable for a long time;) I personally think light weight batteries will come into play long before this technology gets commercial...too little too late if we wait;)

And I think you are quietly asking how safe would it be? I dont know, but its a start..

BINGO! As with mobile phone towers, you'll have civil libertarians attacking the technology all over the place...just about every powered device emits radiation, and radiation is how this new technology works...AFAICT it is a safe radiation, not a dangerous one like nuclear radiation...but heck, we have a whole raft of people confusing "prescribed waste" with "toxic waste" in Victoria, so I'm sure some two bob person will connect the dots:rolleyes:

[Esses]

What the greenies don't realise is that Formula 1 and other motorsport categories are the only sport that can actually contribute to stopping global warming. Due to their huge investments, they can find technologies that are more greener, which can be adopted to road cars.

I don't think tennis, swimming, golf, swimmming, athletics or any other sport can help global warming.


Oh, I dunno. Swimming could come in handy when we go underwater, athletics, footy skills, hand-eye co-ordination from tennis or golf might really help hunting down our next meal in the wild...............:D

Seriously though, Nick's got the balance about right here. All things, including my own occupation WILL have to change, motor-sport included.
The world (our world) is changing & simply saying "I don't care" doesn't work. As someone else said, the Hunter is really copping it, while here in Canberra we've not had a mm of rain all weekend. The dams are at 30%, Stage 4 restrictions will be in soon (these are really the equivalent of Stage 5 as we went to permanent Stage 1 a couple of years ago) & it's not looking good for future falls.
I'm NOT a "Greenie", far from it, but ignoring problems (whether they'll affect us or our Grandchildren) WON'T make them go away.:)

[Leigh]

The world (our world) is changing & simply saying "I don't care" doesn't work. As someone else said, the Hunter is really copping it, while here in Canberra we've not had a mm of rain all weekend. The dams are at 30%, Stage 4 restrictions will be in soon (these are really the equivalent of Stage 5 as we went to permanent Stage 1 a couple of years ago) & it's not looking good for future falls.
I'm NOT a "Greenie", far from it, but ignoring problems (whether they'll affect us or our Grandchildren) WON'T make them go away.:)
But is these examples of "climate change" or just "resource mismanagement"...many people tend to forget that the Hunter floods like this every 50 or so years, and that droughts occur more often than not! Amazingly, with the "worst drought on record", the Murray is still flowing where it stopped in the drought of 1913...and we've produced more food to boot!

[Esses]

But is these examples of "climate change" or just "resource mismanagement"...many people tend to forget that the Hunter floods like this every 50 or so years, and that droughts occur more often than not! Amazingly, with the "worst drought on record", the Murray is still flowing where it stopped in the drought of 1913...and we've produced more food to boot!


OK, I'm NOT on the Climate-Change band-wagon, but a couple of things there. Has the SEVERITY of those floods been measured? My point was that whilst the Hunter is submerged, we're as dry as. In my memory (30 years in Canberra) when there's heavy rainfall & flooding along the NSW coast, it at LEAST rains here, usually heavily.
The Murray is flowing. Yep, but don't try & drown in it, will you?:D The Darling was a sandpit until last week. The Murrumbidgee was so low a few weeks ago that when ACTEW (our Water mob) wanted to pump from it they couldn't, the pumps were out of the water!
The "more food" thing (I presume you mean 1913?) might maybe have something to do with better farming practices, more farmers, mechanisation & a little thing called the Snowy Scheme - Irrigation? Didn't have that in '13 did they?
According to our Federal Treasurer last week, rural production was DOWN 22% last year. Figures can lie etc..................
I'm not the first person to think that Summer has been getting progressively hotter over the last few years & this winter so far is exceptionally warm & dry. Go figure?

[james]

Tell'em ------ No ------ then tell'em.

[lukey73]

Leigh have a look at predictweather.com, this is the guy who has been on TV a bit lately regarding long term weather trends and there seems to be some interesting info on there.

[awawaw]

do we really know what the weather did before life here? im sure us humans do our fair share of damage (and so do farting cows) but i dont believe in blaming us for everything. but i do think we are speeding up the changes.

[lukey73]

do we really know what the weather did before life here? im sure us humans do our fair share of damage (and so do farting cows) but i dont believe in blaming us for everything. but i do think we are speeding up the changes.


Going along the same lines about certain species which are in decline, they say we have to save them but evolution distroyed some living things so by trying to save certain animals are we trying to circumvent a natural occurance?

puts flame suit on and ducks for cover

[Leigh]

Going along the same lines about certain species which are in decline, they say we have to save them but evolution distroyed some living things so by trying to save certain animals are we trying to circumvent a natural occurance?

puts flame suit on and ducks for cover
Interesting food for thought Luke...I suppose the next logical question would be:

"Are humans still natural?"

[lukey73]

Interesting food for thought Luke...I suppose the next logical question would be:

"Are humans still natural?"


Yes they are, but how far will they evolve should really be what your asking, if you follow the progression of animal species is the planet going to eventually kill humans too, with only the cetain animal/insects left for the who process to begin again.

[Nick Short]

What is "a Greeny" anyway? It shouldn't really be used as an insult. We all have to think about being green a little bit. If global warming is becoming more rapid than in past warm periods because of CO2 then it affects all of us. Sticking 2 fingers up at anyone expressing concerns, presumably becase it's assumed they must be a hippie, a bit suspect in some way, unmasculine, "lefty" (another wildly-thrown label) or whatever, doesn't do anyone any favours. Like everyone else I use petrochemicals and enjoy motorsport, but day to day I cycle to and from work in all weathers (35km return), I think about my home power consumption, have fitted solar panels that produce more electricity than I use, have solar hot water, collect rainwater in tanks, recycle.....and I don't have dreadlocks, John Lennon glasses, a little goatee beard, a kaftan or anything like that. I enjoy thinking I'm at least trying to reduce my impact on the planet, even if nobody else wants to......

[GOBBO]

bloody do gooders

[wayno]

A greenie is the sort of person who shuns the use of soap, drives a VW that pumps out more pollutants than Loy-Yang and sits out the front of McDonalds very disappointed when he finds out the "30 cent cones" aren't what he thought they were! :D

[Tumbo]

Nick the term greenie is as Wayne shows above referring to a specific type of environmentalist. I'd like to think we all have an environmental and green streak - but there are better ways of moving this across without moving down the "greenie" slop :)

[HSVGTS]

A greenie is the sort of person who shuns the use of soap, drives a VW that pumps out more pollutants than Loy-Yang and sits out the front of McDonalds very disappointed when he finds out the "30 cent cones" aren't what he thought they were! :D

LOL i tend to agree with you there mate , you should see them over here in hobart you have discribed them to a tee :D

[GOBBO]

A greenie is the sort of person who shuns the use of soap, drives a VW that pumps out more pollutants than Loy-Yang and sits out the front of McDonalds very disappointed when he finds out the "30 cent cones" aren't what he thought they were! :D

yep they are howards surf team all spounserd by him

[BILLFORD1]

You have to laugh really..One particular item always raises it's ugly head in any of these scenarios...MONEY/REVENUE. I watched the "Future Car" series on DoTell recently. Very interesting it was too. I especially liked the car that will be driven by compressed air & to get round the inevitable jacked up cost of air+gst+taxes+levies etc, it is proposed to actually have an onboard compressor, powered by the air driving the car, to produce more air. As they said, perpetual motion without cost!! Naturally being slightly cynical of the "Public Purse Parasites" at the best of times, it didn't take me long to arrive at the conclusion that such a dastardly plan would NOT please them so they would find a way to still rob the 'motoring cash cows' blind, such as installing a device to log Kms travelled & charge you a fee for distance covered. Lo & behold in todays local rag, rumour of possibility of dropping all the Taxes/Charges/Fees/Levies etc on Fuel & bringing in the "GPS User Pays System" !!! You can always be assured that the "Revenue Ratio" will be the same if not more. (To allow for Inflation !). :D

[rex555]

You have to laugh really..One particular item always raises it's ugly head in any of these scenarios...MONEY/REVENUE. I watched the "Future Car" series on DoTell recently. Very interesting it was too. I especially liked the car that will be driven by compressed air & to get round the inevitable jacked up cost of air+gst+taxes+levies etc, it is proposed to actually have an onboard compressor, powered by the air driving the car, to produce more air. As they said, perpetual motion without cost!! Naturally being slightly cynical of the "Public Purse Parasites" at the best of times, it didn't take me long to arrive at the conclusion that such a dastardly plan would NOT please them so they would find a way to still rob the 'motoring cash cows' blind, such as installing a device to log Kms travelled & charge you a fee for distance covered. Lo & behold in todays local rag, rumour of possibility of dropping all the Taxes/Charges/Fees/Levies etc on Fuel & bringing in the "GPS User Pays System" !!! You can always be assured that the "Revenue Ratio" will be the same if not more. (To allow for Inflation !). :D

No the revenue stream will be higher since the GPS will be able to log every time that you accidentally exceed the speed limit (going down a steep hill for example, before you apply the brake) and automatically be able to send you a fine in the mail.

[beast]

No the revenue stream will be higher since the GPS will be able to log every time that you accidentally exceed the speed limit (going down a steep hill for example, before you apply the brake) and automatically be able to send you a fine in the mail.

And they'll know every time that you dont wear your seatbelt.

[singer]

OK, I'm NOT on the Climate-Change band-wagon, but a couple of things there. Has the SEVERITY of those floods been measured? My point was that whilst the Hunter is submerged, we're as dry as. In my memory (30 years in Canberra) when there's heavy rainfall & flooding along the NSW coast, it at LEAST rains here, usually heavily.
The Murray is flowing. Yep, but don't try & drown in it, will you?:D The Darling was a sandpit until last week. The Murrumbidgee was so low a few weeks ago that when ACTEW (our Water mob) wanted to pump from it they couldn't, the pumps were out of the water!
The "more food" thing (I presume you mean 1913?) might maybe have something to do with better farming practices, more farmers, mechanisation & a little thing called the Snowy Scheme - Irrigation? Didn't have that in '13 did they?
According to our Federal Treasurer last week, rural production was DOWN 22% last year. Figures can lie etc..................
I'm not the first person to think that Summer has been getting progressively hotter over the last few years & this winter so far is exceptionally warm & dry. Go figure?

Steve,

The last time it was that wet in the ACT & Region (similar to the Hunter)was 1974 (In 1974 [on Grandpa's Farm just North of the Hunter] we 100 head of dairy cattle die, 6 miles of fencing kaput &, our 100 y/o pump was 6 miles down stream, where it usually went whenever it floods). Our last drought which had any duration (similar to the times we are having now) was in 1967. 1967 was also the year we had snow almost 2 metres deep in Canberra.

We've had Fires similar to those of 2001/2003 during the 30's, 40's, 50's 60's & 70s. Its just a matter of dragging those memories up.

In my opinion, weather is cyclic. From the temperates over the past 100 years, temperatures have been rising however, over the past 10,000 years the Earth has seen greater fluctuation in temperature, both Cold & Hot

As an aside, the stationary engine pump is now close to 120 y/o and still going strong. As far as I know, the pump has never had any major attention during its lifespan.

[Esses]

Agree 100% Ken on the cyclical thing. Was just saying as much to Leigh "off-line". But I do think that as a species we're not exactly helping the situation.
The last "worst drought" I have clear memories of was the one that broke when Hawkie kicked Fraser's butt - '86? The Wyangala Dam was dry, Burrinjuck was a puddle but I think our dams didn't go much below 50%? Much more population now, of course. And there's all your potential new "neighbours" in Tralee to consider..................:D

[singer]

Agree 100% Ken on the cyclical thing. Was just saying as much to Leigh "off-line". But I do think that as a species we're not exactly helping the situation.
The last "worst drought" I have clear memories of was the one that broke when Hawkie kicked Fraser's butt - '86? The Wyangala Dam was dry, Burrinjuck was a puddle but I think our dams didn't go much below 50%? Much more population now, of course. And there's all your potential new "neighbours" in Tralee to consider..................:D


The trouble with having a Good Memory:p

One reason its colder out here, is that we do not have the thermal mass of a small town or large city.

Tralee is supposed to be the "Greenest Housing Estate Yet" according to Bob Winnell of Village Building Co.:rolleyes:

If I get anymore trouble from roaming dogs or feral cat or for that matter any other domestical animal, there will be a .22 solution. I've sought legal advice, Ranger Advice & Approval. If they are on my land & threatening or appear threatening then they get the solution.

Only thing is, I don't have a Firearm however, I do have a neighbour who does (& is a crack shot. Represented NSW in Competitions).

I won't stand for Pack animals attacking my stock (Currently 20 head & 4 with calf) or my FAMILY or my pets which are kept yarded (i've had to put down some of my pets due to attack from Pack/Feral animals. Its very difficult explaining to a child that you had to kill his pet. The feelings of Guilt, simple words cannot do justice even if it is the best thing for the pet..

[Esses]

I hear ya. We went through a similar experience with our family pet shortly before Jac-Jac was born. Good luck with it. If "Solution 22" doesn't work, there's always "Rule 303"!:D

[malscar]

Just how many times can you remember Lake George being dry or hard up against the highway?

As too feral animals, not only have I seen very large ex-domestic dogs but some lovely black with age pigs etc and not as some say uncommon.

When the 'green' element we have here in the ACT region won't consider roo culls I feel like dragging them 10km out of the city to show how the roo population has exploded and they are now starving to death.

And don't get me started on the 'no burnoff' element pre fires.

There is looking after the enviroment, which I agree with, and then there is being stupid about it and not accepting the consequences when it bites you.

[Dez]

Greenies are hypocrites..

They complain about all these enviromental issues... yet prime examples are:

Laura from big brother uses toilet paper like its going out of fashion, bet she didnt check or care if it was recycled.

Greenies mostly seem to always drive cars that use leaded fuel...

The list goes on, but cant be bothered, they're a waste of space on earth.

The only thing I could agree on is making a different fuel than we currently use, one that does the least possible damage or no damage at all to the enviroment.

[Martin Thomas]

There is looking after the enviroment, which I agree with, and then there is being stupid about it and not accepting the consequences when it bites you.

Of course, there is a flip side to this view..

[zeitgeist]

Greenies mostly seem to always drive cars that use leaded fuel...


... or are hopelessly out of tune, farting a smoke contrail and guzzling fluids like dockworker on a bender.

Nothing like a mid-60's Combi rattlebox to exemplify green driving.

What did Carman say? "I hate Hippies. They say they want to save the Earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad."

BC

[Leigh]

Greenies are hypocrites..
[snip]
Greenies mostly seem to always drive cars that use leaded fuel...


Leaded petrol is much better for the environment than unleaded in cars not fitted with, or having a faulty catalytic converter...

Lead is only bad for people and catalytic converters. The benzenes, toluenes etc that replace lead in unleaded fuels contribute more to smog etc

... or are hopelessly out of tune, farting a smoke contrail and guzzling fluids like dockworker on a bender.

Nothing like a mid-60's Combi rattlebox to exemplify green driving.

What did Carman say? "I hate Hippies. They say they want to save the Earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad."

BC

But the greenies who drive around in smoking combi vans would put up a very legitimate and accurate argument that the pollution they emit from the vehicle over 10-15 years is far less than is emitted in making a brand new car that is more fuel efficient...

It's a fine balancing act as to what is better for the environment on both these issues...it all depends on what you measure from where!

[Dez]

A leaded car in good condition maybe, but not ones that leak oil and you cant sit behind on a freeway because you cant see through their exhause smoke :)

[Leigh]

A leaded car in good condition maybe, but not ones that leak oil and you cant sit behind on a freeway because you cant see through their exhause smoke :)
...but that's got nothing to do with the fuel...I've seen many smokey VN-VS's;)

[Dez]

Martin to answer your post before you edited.. I guess I could sound like a greenie but I'm not one.

Man is doing a good job in ruining this planet we live on in so many ways on so many different levels, if they have the technology to make the things they do, I really dont see an issue with making them less harmful to the enviroment, rather than just not doing anything at all and eventually destroying everything, so that we can enjoy the things we do.

I'm not saying they should stop motorsport because of the emissions etc, but why shouldn't they do something to improve on it to decrease and possibly even stop the harm that it does for the future.

[Dez]

lfp no, just the bombs they drive are always the $100-$300 cars that shouldnt be on the road.

[awawaw]

Going along the same lines about certain species which are in decline, they say we have to save them but evolution distroyed some living things so by trying to save certain animals are we trying to circumvent a natural occurance?

puts flame suit on and ducks for cover

well, nothing lasts forever

[Dez]

I think in that circumstance theres a BIG difference..

1. NATURAL evolution
2. Man causing extinction of animal species by destroying habitats, logging etc etc.

[Leigh]

I think in that circumstance theres a BIG difference..

1. NATURAL evolution
2. Man causing extinction of animal species by destroying habitats, logging etc etc.
The African savanna's are created by elephants tearing out trees to eat...once there are no trees left, and no habitat for the creatures that live in the trees, the grass lands grow, in come a different lot of animals, and the elephants move on to destroy another area...

I could provide many examples from many different "natural" cycles...

I think the telling point is the extent to which we are having impact...but IMO we are still a "natural" cycle...Don't get me wrong though, from an environmental point of view I'd much prefer if we had a less of an impact.

[Angrydad]

I certainly don't think we are doing the planet any favours, and we all probably need to try and cut emissions, but I don't necessarily believe that man is responsible for global warming and that it is going to destroy the entire planet.

I might be wrong here, but didn't scientists discover that earth has actually moved slightly on its axis? I did hear a figure of 2 degrees, but I don't know how accurate that is. But if that is true, then of course the climate will change. How do we know that climate change isn't a naturally occurring phenomenon? Maybe it's what killed the dinosaurs?

[Tumbo]

they have also shown that the same change in temperature has been seen on Mars over the last 30 years. I want to do something but what if our attempts to fix the situation make it worse? I mean there are examples of extreme weather in the past where there hasn't been industrialised rises in greenhouse gases. Further even if Australia stopped all emissions (as in everyone in Australia died and all industry etc stopped) within 9mths China alone would replicate those emissions so its not as if we are a big player globally

[Footy]

What happened to the dinosaurs?:D

[Martin Thomas]

Martin to answer your post before you edited.. I guess I could sound like a greenie but I'm not one.

Man is doing a good job in ruining this planet we live on in so many ways on so many different levels, if they have the technology to make the things they do, I really dont see an issue with making them less harmful to the enviroment, rather than just not doing anything at all and eventually destroying everything, so that we can enjoy the things we do.

I'm not saying they should stop motorsport because of the emissions etc, but why shouldn't they do something to improve on it to decrease and possibly even stop the harm that it does for the future.

Dez, my pre edited response referred to the broad stereo type view of people who are concerned about the environment. if you know what I mean.
If we butt heads with every suggestion regarding the level of emisions, then one day, when something HAS to be done, then it will be a lot harder to swallow. The reality is we have to stop looking at the other countries and asking what about them, lets lead the way in a mature and well thought out process. nice and easy, no rash decisions and be prepared to spend the dollars now as it will only get more expensive the longer we wait.
The mining industry is a good example. 15 years ago, employee groups were warning of the labour shortage around the corner and companies were neglecting their infurstructure. Now, due to short sightedness, theres a scramble on and its costing companies a lot of money. Remember, the MINING Boom has not really started yet.. Its more of an infurstructure boom. When all these new ports and mines are ready to go, watch the money pump in then. Companies are spending billions of dollars just to be able to meet demand, imagine the investment ratio the beanies are counting on..:eek:

So if we wait 'till we HAVE to do something, its gonna hurt us all a lot more than if we approach it in the proper manner.

Call me a greenie, but thats how I see it.:D:hair2::daisy:

[CowboyMatt]

Unfortunately to get proactive environmental change we need governments to get involved - locally and internationally.

That doesn't bode well for proactive change - governments are more intersted in staying in power than making tough decisions.

Call me a cynic but that's how I see it.

[Leigh]

Unfortunately to get proactive environmental change we need governments to get involved - locally and internationally.

That doesn't bode well for proactive change - governments are more intersted in staying in power than making tough decisions.

Call me a cynic but that's how I see it.
Trust me, the Governments are doing a heck of a lot more than what has been announced...as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day;)

[lukey73]

Trust me, the Governments are doing a heck of a lot more than what has been announced...as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day;)


There lies the problem Leigh, given the mismanagement of alot of different parts of infrastrue by governments from all levels it is very hard to take the simple "Trust us we are doing the right thing" when there is such a history of them not.

We get very limited information and yet we are expected to allow government to spend billions of 'our' dollars of projects we have no idea of, we all know at how good governments are at wasting money and then blaming everyone else for there mistake.

If the environment is such a big issue as all governments claim they need to involve the public more, they may find that we are willing to do the things needed. ;)

[Dez]

Martin dont worry I totally agree..

I do believe man plays a big part in climate change and all the other issues this planet is facing.

We have all become too accustomed to leaving the tv on, lights on, leave the car running for 10mins while you gasbag to someone you know on the street etc. The list goes on. Humans take a majority of their life and the things in them fully for granted.

[toddy05]

What happened to the dinosaurs?:D
Some good reading with some views most of us have never heard before, makes challenging reading for those with open minds...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/faq/dino saurs.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/Area/AnswersB ook/dinosaurs19.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/radio/pdf/whathapp enedtodinos.pdf