Street Races to Dangerous?

[lukey73]

Thought i would throw this open for debate after the carnage once again at Clipsal.

Given the damage done to cars and human's is it time we start moving away from street races? I know they are popular but given the damage toll could the end or the redesign of street circuits be needed so that they can exist in the future.

For me Adelaide needs to revert back to the original design and loose that fast corner which always seems to claim a number of cars each year, also the 1st chicane needs some attention to stop the drivers jumping it like they do which from my brief view was partly the cause of the accident in the ute series.

Looking at a street circuit like Melbourne where in most cases it has plenty of run off could it be time where we need to ave something other than just concrete to stop a car.

Interested to see what you guys think.

Luke

[inter]

I have never been to adelaide so excuse my ignorance???
can turn 8 be widened????
if not you could place a chicane 100m before the corner ( this will destroy the best part of the track ?

[brchi17]

As much as I don't like street circuits I feel that perhaps some are saying the track is to blame before forgetting the organic element that is behind the wheel, in either of these two huge crashes I don't see the track being the fault this one. In my mind they were both avoidable, but also that both crashes were caused by human error. Sure that doesn't help the families of the drivers & my heart goes out for them to have speedy recoveries from their injuries.

Speaking of turn 8, I liken it to the chase in terms of speed & yet look how far back the crowd is placed at Bathurst compared to Adelaide.....I don't like the idea of chicanes to slow the cars down, but perhaps it's time the people writing the rules looked at the experience of their drivers when they're choosing the tracks at which they wish to take their respective series to.

I know the Clipsal 500 is one of our sports headline events, but do we need the development series there where it's field has a lot of less experienced drivers & teams running on tight budgets, I think not. As for the utes, I don't think they should race their either knowing their nature for crash & bash racing (same goes for their Indy appearance), if anything I think allowing them to race on a circuit where they are know to have big crashes is boarding upon neglect imho.

[toad]

I would prefer they went to the old longer F1 layout at Adelaide because although there is still a turn 8 style corner it is in the first 3rd of the straight not 2/3rds down the straight meaning the speed would be lower into it. In addition I find the current layout a bit short.

If they did this the approach speed into the hairpin would be significantly increased.

[GOBBO]

if they do move away from it i believe it would be a knee jerk reaction in my mind .
motor sport is a dangerous sport they all know it dangerous but they take the chance for glory if you believe having concrete walls instead of run off id to dangerous then what are they going to do at the top of the mountain at bathurst .
these guys know what they are getting into when they steer the car out on the track .
i bit like what i do for fun i race motocross i know by starting my bike and lining up with 30 other guys on the start line that i could have a great day out riding our miss judge a corner or come up short on a jump and it could be very easilly be game over . .
i think that the street courses although dangerous are no differnt to normal race track in terms of injury.

[lukey73]

I would prefer they went to the old longer F1 layout at Adelaide because although there is still a turn 8 style corner it is in the first 3rd of the straight not 2/3rds down the straight meaning the speed would be lower into it. In addition I find the current layout a bit short.

If they did this the approach speed into the hairpin would be significantly increased.

Steve from memory there is a fair bit of run off at the end of the straight, i too find the current layout to short and would prefer they run on the old F1 track.


if they do move away from it i believe it would be a knee jerk reaction in my mind .
motor sport is a dangerous sport they all know it dangerous but they take the chance for glory if you believe having concrete walls instead of run off id to dangerous then what are they going to do at the top of the mountain at bathurst .
these guys know what they are getting into when they steer the car out on the track .
i bit like what i do for fun i race motocross i know by starting my bike and lining up with 30 other guys on the start line that i could have a great day out riding our miss judge a corner or come up short on a jump and it could be very easilly be game over . .
i think that the street courses although dangerous are no differnt to normal race track in terms of injury.

Gobbo i dont think it would be knee jerk at all, look at all the accidents which have happened there since the events inception, every time they try something new it doesnt/hasnt worked and every yuear we have had car crash at that same corner.

I agree with some of the sentiments so far that its the driver but with the speed these guys are getting through turn 8 and the want to faster every year it might be time to go back to what was originally a safe track ( apart from Skaifey going turtle in the GTR in 90)

[GOBBO]

yea fair enough lukey i do agree with you that the the track does need to be upgraded acording to the speed of the cars .
maybe they should give the old f1 version of the track a go ya never know it might make for better racing

[brchi17]

I know when I was at the event last year there was talk of the event going back to the F1 layout, but it was deemed too expensive for the number of extra fans that extending the circuit would accommodate....

[minh427]

I'm probably too young to remember, but can someone tell me how the old track use to look like, what was there around the turn 8 area before?

[lukey73]

Brad i thought that had been mentioned for a few years, the last i heard was that they wouldnt as it cause disruption to the city with the extra streets being blocked off.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Hamilton and Townsville when those races both start, i hope there isnt as much carnage.

[Donny05]

Has anyone got a map or overlay of the 2 different layouts as I can't remember :o

[brchi17]

old F1 layout
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/brchi17/other/ bckadelaide.jpg
V8 supercar layout
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/brchi17/other/ bckadelaidev8.jpg

[lukey73]

If i could workout how to use googlemaps i would show you. :rolleyes:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=-34.926528,138.617635&spn=0.012913,0.019956&t=h&z=16&msid=103877166705660124218.000446e5bfd4e1538c12e

[brchi17]

If i could workout how to use googlemaps i would show you. :rolleyes:

just look at post #12 :p

sure it's not google, but shows what we're talking about :D

[wayno]

Why is there still concrete at all exposed? What about the 'safer barrier' NASCAR uses in the US?
It seems to work pretty well on some horrendous impacts.

[james]

It is motor sport not marbles,however two major prang's this year will bring out a negative responce to a street race.

[SWRT]

I actually read in a Adelaide paper late last year that for the 2009 Clipsal the old circuit will most likely be brought back, to accomidate for the growing crowd.
Apparently trafic flow isn't as big as a problem as first thought.

[lukey73]

just look at post #12 :p

sure it's not google, but shows what we're talking about :D


Got it sussed finally, more a visual shot than the plain red line trick !! ;)

[malscar]

Try this one. It does have the wrong turn numbers. 8 on the map is not there so 9 onwards take 1 off. Turn 8 is shown with a kink which does not exist anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Circuit_Adelaid e.png

Wayno, what is the Nascar barrier like. The tyres with the rubber helps slow cars, but if used like the exit of the chicane, pulls the car in and flings it out. Watch the helicopter/overhead vision of the ute accident to see what I mean.

[wayno]

It's fantastic stuff.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=jb-earnhardtsafety021706&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Hope this explains it a bit better.

[lukey73]

But can they use those soft walls on street circuits which have moveable "solid" walls.

By the looks fo that system it needs to mounted on a firm base which the street circuit walls are not going to be.

[CowboyMatt]

Would the old F1 circuit result in fewer accidents?

Not sure - looks like another Turn 8 in a different spot.

[daggy]

I think u mean the corner where mika hakkinen went off in f1 days.
Coming on to dequetteville tce (on to the long straight)
He was very lucky to survive

[Leigh]

Turn 9 on the GP circuit is also where Skaife rolled the Skyline...

[lukey73]

Turn 9 on the GP circuit is also where Skaife rolled the Skyline...

That was only coz he tripped over the high curbing they had in place and the stiff suspension on the GTR didnt like it.

[Leigh]

I could remember the roll, not what caused it:o LOL

[malscar]

He ran a little wide, got sideways and tripped over the ripple strip. Would not have mattered what size the ripple strip was as he hit it sideways. Hit the end concrete block with the underside of the car. She was stuffed.

[lukey73]

Given the sad passing of Ashley Cooper could we now finally see the introduction of the original curcuit in Adelaide. It will be interesting to see what the recommendations are from the CMAS inquiry.

[CowboyMatt]

He ran a little wide, got sideways and tripped over the ripple strip. Would not have mattered what size the ripple strip was as he hit it sideways. Hit the end concrete block with the underside of the car. She was stuffed.

What also amazed me about that incident if I remember correctly is how Colin Bond was able to pull up in time to avoid plowing into the wreakage at full tilt.

[hobby]

i myself as posted before are not a fan of this type of circuit because they are so unforgiving and the views of the circuit depend on the more you pay the more you see.

these tragic accidents will certainly not help and possibly put a closure on any chance of Perth hosting a street race.

[CowboyMatt]

i myself as posted before are not a fan of this type of circuit because they are so unforgiving and the views of the circuit depend on the more you pay the more you see.

these tragic accidents will certainly not help and possibly put a closure on any chance of Perth hosting a street race.

Not to mention Homebush.

[david5]

I think there needs to be a review of a couple of things. Firstly does the Fujitsu series need to run at Clipsal,Phillip Island & Bathurst. Very high speeds,very dangerous. I know these are premier events,I know thats where your sponsors want to be seen, I know youve got to learn somehow, but people are getting hurt. Maybe there needs to be some sort of rookie/learners requirement ala Nascar.
Secondly do they need to implement some compulsory "lifeing" of components, rollcages & chassis. I know that people dream their whole lives & scrimp & save to get into these cars, but with limited budgets are short cuts being made that endanger everyone. Im not hinting or saying that either of the last two fatalities fall into this area, as I have no knowledge of their circumstances, Im just asking the question.

Cheers David

[lukey73]

I dont think its just the Fujitsu guys, i believe its more than fact of the track design. Think about all the crashes that have happened there and all the near misses that have occured it was bound to happen.

We really need to look at track design and the safety of the drivers from all categories needs to be paramount. The search of the almighty corporate dollar needs to be funelled into either better/safer street curcuits or providing more permanent tracks around the country.

[awawaw]

Secondly do they need to implement some compulsory "lifeing" of components, rollcages & chassis. I know that people dream their whole lives & scrimp & save to get into these cars, but with limited budgets are short cuts being made that endanger everyone. Im not hinting or saying that either of the last two fatalities fall into this area, as I have no knowledge of their circumstances, Im just asking the question.

Cheers David

your right there. i still have a standard seat in my car, a cheap helmet and a bolt in roll cage. while im not achiving the same speeds, i would feel better if i had a race seat, welded cage and a stronger helmet.

www.johnbriggsracing.blogspot.com