Competition Winner Selling Prize

[Pro Street]

Noticed on the Buy Sell Swap, someone seling a Dick Johnson XE 1:18. Number 2 of 2. Won in a competition.

I wonder if this is the guy that won one at the Biante get togethr at Bathurst that spent more time on his phone than listening.

[admin]

This is the exact reason why I and others, such as HRT, do not let out "one off" items.
However, we have a policy of trying to be better and different from the rest as far as our collectors go, and give you the occassional chance to get a prototype, car bonnet etc, but this may end it!
Admin

[Andrew]

Well I'd just like to thank the person that is selling his/her 'one off' for now wrecking it for the rest of us.
I would give an arm and a leg for one of Biante's 'one offs'/prototypes, or special pieces, but it looks like that chance may be disappearing.
Admin, if there are any prototypes that you for some reason cannot hold in your collection, I for one would love them, and would NEVER sell them on - to anyone, for any price. I have too much integrity for that. Why would you sell them on when you knew that they were handed out as prizes in good faith?

[the_goldie]

I can't believe this... I also noticed this today and was wondering what a 2/2 XE would be and thought it could only be the car that was won at the Bathurst meet!
I'm with Andrew on this one, I'd love a prototype of anything... I was hoping to win the VR or even one of the prints that was given away.
I guess the "collectors" will not get a chance like this again :( Admin even stated at the meet that if any of the 'prizes' were seen on the auction sites then this would never happen again.
I'll make him an off - the ticket that I had that didn't win anything!!!

[mustang1966]

I am with you guys, it takes one person to F up something good the company has offered to it's members. Wonder if he will be up at Bathurst next year?

[diecastdude]

One idea is to sit back don't bid on it and you know who will, heward555 !

[7Litre]

I am totally disheartened with the situation that has occured. If I were the person who had received a one-off production item, it would probably be the last model I would sell considering it's rarerity. Who knows the reason why he sold it? Maybe he didn't have a choice.But hopefully under different circumstances this will not occur again.

Admin, Please don't penalise us all for one persons actions.

[BATHURSTFAN]

Sounds like he just wants to make a quick buck, looks like he attended the Bathurst meeting for all the wrong reasons.

whats gets me is that (if it is) this person was told not to sell it and then has the nerve to sell it on Biante's website.

Just as bad as other people and dealers who sell models (after they've hoarded them) on ebay without the intention of leaving them for genuine collectors.

A certain dealer puts some popular models away to sell at an inflated price later on.

How can these people sell the plaque when its not yet available, get in first i suppose.

[diecastdude]

Well I don't know about all this, if someone wins something then that something is their property and they can really do what ever they want with it. Now if a prize is going to be given away with a condition on it and that condition MUST be met or all will pay then a stat decleration or something like that should have been entered into upon handing over the pize, sure its wrong and he should not have sold it as he has but he has put it back on the site for some genuine collector to pick up, he could have taken it down to a dealer who would have offered it for sale for a far greater amount than it will probably fetch here. He could be selling it for many reasons, sickness, financial difficulties, he might not collect fords, who realy knows. At least someone who truly wants it now has the oportunity to own it place it in their collection and look after it but to grill this guy for selling his property based on the fact that he broke some verbal agreement seems a bit strange. Well thats my say and I'll stand by for the heat.

[Oh Five]

What are you guys worried about, i was 15 minutes late getting to the "Bathurst Do" and didnt even get a ticket.... sob sob!!:(

[lindsay]

Why part with something so rare after only owning it for 10min, Even if you didn't want the prize it is obvious that an item like that would be worth more in a couple of years than it is in a couple of weeks.
My wife won Lownsy's helmet 2 yrs ago and she will never part with it no mater how much she was offered for it . (A) because Craig is her favorite driver (B) because not to many people can say they have such a rare item.

PS . ADMIN please dont punish the genuine collectors

[XR8]

Just for the sake of curiosity, what is this DJR XE 2 of 2 limited
prototype?? Does anyone have any details, picture's, at all of this model. I can't recall hearing anything about it!!

Ed :)

P.S, for the record, I wouldn't be selling such an article if it was in my possesion, whatever the case may be!!!

[wacpt]

2 of 2. Possibly a prototype. Any serious collector would give their right arm for one. I don't think anyone has ever been able to purchase a prototype before, (correct me if I'm wrong anyone), so to be given one, I classify that as honour. As a diehard fan of the General (GM, not the General Lee car of TV), I'd be proud to display it if I had won it.
I didn't get to Bathurst this year, but I have some mates who went and attended the meeting. From what they have said, this guy is a DJR fan. Go figure. In his defence, he probably has a good reason to sell, but I think he should have put a fixed price on it, not start a bidding war, and he probably should have contacted Biante to let them know his intentions (in good faith and all), since he was obviously told not to sell it.
The down side of all this is that it now seems that there is no chance a model like this will ever be given away to collectors again. His actions have robbed us of that chance and I can understand Biante's frustration.
The damage is now done, I only hope that their minds can be changed by positive feedback regarding this issue.

enough said on my part.

Keep smiling

[perry]

I'll give the guy the benefit of doubt, because we dont know his circumstances, before slagging him off.

If i had won the ford prototype, i probably would have done the same thing. Im as much of a collector as anyone else in this forum, but that model (not matter how rare) is of no interest to me. Personally, id rather take a few photos, and sell the thing to help finance the next release of models.

Its better being in someones house that would truelly appreciates it, and we cannot expect to know this fellows circumstances, nor the reason for the sale.

Holding on to something your not entirely interested in, and dont have a passion for, simply to retain "bragging rights", is selfishness.

[wombat]

As I understand the law (common and legislated), there is no way that such a restrictive covenant could be applied to an item freely given away (or raffled or bought for that matter). That is puting aside covenants on real property, of course. Perhaps Graeme can comment further on the legalities.

However, regardless of everyone's personal views about what each of us might do with such a unique model, the owner is free to do as he likes and a purchaser is free to pay what he likes at an auction.

This is the case with any collectable. I don't know how many people have owned the mona lisa over the past 100 years, but I know that it has been sold by people who have placed a higher emphasis on its financial value than the emotive value of owning the object.

That's why Sotheby's, Christies, etc are in business - a high percentage of collectors will eventually part with their prized possession, as long as a someone is prepared to pay the price.

I therefore cannot see why everyone is upset (including Trevor). If a collectable is sought to be sold, it is worth only what the market is prepared to pay.

Remember, each person who purchases an item such as the prototype in question here will treasure the object from either a financial or emotive perspective.

Personally, I don't like the overall concept of people buying a collectable purely to resell at a financial gain, But I recognise that it does happen and will continue to happen. It isn't reason , though, to not deal with the object in the first place.

Please don't change your practices, Trev. Let each of us dream of winning and owning something that many of us will genuinely treasure for the rest of our days.

[Andrew]

I certainly see what you are saying Wombat, and I do agree - to an extent.
The whole reason the crew at Biante gave this model away as a special prize was to offer one collector something that no-one else could buy. If they'd meant it to be sold, then why didn't they just produce 1000-2000 'prototype' replicas (sounds silly I know), to appease those who wanted one, and made a profit while they were at it. The whole point in giving the prototype away as a special prize is because it is a special 'one off' - something no-one can buy (or certainly should never able to buy).
Now the colector/seller in question may very well have financial circumstances that preclude him/her from retaining it (it IS christmas time after all), but their move goes against the spirit of the gesture/intention from those at Biante. My understanding is that this piece is a gesture from Biante to its collectors to own something a bit special that no-one else can get. A 'thankyou' if you like. Why give something like this away if it is only going to be sold down the track for a profit?

I can understand Biante's frustration at this move, but also understand the right of the current owner to sell property that is legitimately his.
I don't know, I've got no answers.... :(

:confused:

[FJMAN]

Well said Wombat, everyone should chill out a bit. Prototypes and pre-productions have been used for prizes for years by model makers and it is not a first if someone decides to sell. As Perry said, we do not know their circumstances.

[wombat]

It doesn't have an answer - unless the spirit of the receiver can be guaranteed to match that of the giver.

As this cannot ever be the case, no guarantees possible.

It's unfortunate that this person is choosing to sell the car, but I hope that it will not deter Trev and the gang from maintaining their collective spirit. For every person who might sell the gift, their must be hundreds (thousands) of us who would be flayed unto unconsiousness before we would part with such a car.

I would much rather have read a thread to the effect that someone had won the car, it is displayed in his family room in a specially manufactured impregnable display case, protected from UV rays, children and rampant burglars and gazed upon at length every single day. We would all have sighed in collective envy.

:p

[Andrew]

Yeah, true Wombat, true.
The seller has done nothing illegal - its just not what many of us would have done with the same opportunity.

[Leigh]

There are several issues here. Wombat covers the legal issue. Andrew covered the emotional.

What about the reality? If you win a prize and further down the track do not want it (for what ever reason) do you return it? Do you give it away? Or (god forbid) throw it in the bin?

If you decide to give it away, how does one decide whom to give it to? In today's climate, more often than not, money decides. Biante decided by raffle, assuming that ALL who attended the Bathurst function would appreciate/value the prize. We still can not make the assumption of either of these. I have recently sold many of my models as it was either these, or other possesions that could not be done without. We do not know the circumstances.

The comment by the Webmaster on the buy/sell page gives us an idea of Biante's motives. He could have sold it to a local shop, or in the Trading Post, or even on the auction sites, but decided to give people who visit Biante's website a go...COLLECTORS.

Biante have the right to do whatever they like (to a point). Why haven't they removed the advertisement?

Leigh

[brchi17]

So if admin gave away the #2 prototype at the Bathurst do, who has prototype #1 ????
Does Dick have this one or did Biante keep it ????
Personally, If it was me who got such a prize, I would keep it for ever - as i'm a big Dick Johnson fan
Unless, my girlfriend found out its' true value, she'd sell it in a flash - she doesn't appreciate my car collection the way I do.
I'm sure not going to let her know what my other DJR cars (XE, XD, Sierra, etc.....) are worth !!!!!
cheers.

[ferrari fan]

All the debate of if it is this or that ,amounts to nothing!
ADMIN is the ONE and only who can or willnot release/give away his prototypes out the goodness of his soul.
Now that this has happened ,he is the only one who is /always has been in charge.!! They are his property!
and he sets the rules, I.E. will he do it again or not!
the rest of the story is just Hogwash or something similar.
If he wants to and so deceides to give another away as a price , that is going to be admin and Bev's decicion .
his has nothing to do with law or anything else.:mad:

[v8coupe]

I don't see the problem in someone selling something they won. As long as they aren't flogging it off at a rip off price. If I won one, I wouldn't though, still have my free 1/43 vt concept coupe that was given to me. I'd personally feel bad if I sold the 1/43 as this guy my dad knows past it on to me.
Personally wouldn't buy it as being a prototype, wont be 100% correct, as I like the models as close to the real thing etc....

But being a prize, we all had a chance to recieve / win, don't see the problem. If I won a brand new Nissan, Ford, Toyota etc, I would most likely sell it and buy a Holden.

[Pro Street]

jeez, I nevr thought i'd open a can of worms. I was just pointing out the model was for sale. Seems everyone has a different opinion on the matter. Good points by ALL. Guess it shows how seriously some collectors take their collecting. Didn't mean to hang the guy. Good luck to who ever finaly buys it. Would be a great addition to any collection.

[perry]

Originally posted by lcfp2297


Biante have the right to do whatever they like (to a point). Why haven't they removed the advertisement?




I was wondering that too, but i think i know the answer.

[terrine]

this debate reminds me of an episode not too many years ago when greg chappell put private letters addressed to him from sir donald bradman up for auction. this correspondence was dated from the heady days of world series cricket and some of the dons comments were none to savoury.
the bradman camp was not to happy but the world still turns...

r/peter
....i never liked greg chappell

[rusky26]

ok i'll bite......what do you think the answer is??? I haven't thought of one

[BATHURSTFAN]

I think the answer is that there's not much they can do as he will sell it here or elsewhere, the cats out of the bag anyhow.

Legally yes he could sell it, but morally I believe it's wrong.

The bottom line here is that Biante says "Don't sell it" and then he turns around and sells it on THEIR website.

thats my opinion.

[admin]

The reason the ad has stayed on, is that he is perfectly entitled to sell it.
I am just disappointed that I gave away a bit of my company's history to someone who, self proclaimed to be a DJR fan, finds he would rather sell it.
However, if he is starving to death and needs the money to buy food for his kids, by all means sell it. Why not?
I hope whoever buys it appreciates it for what it is...the second model of a 1:18th scale diecast XE Falcon EVER made in the world!

[perry]

Originally posted by rusky26
ok i'll bite......what do you think the answer is??? I haven't thought of one

It creates discussion. Discussion is good for advertising, as people are talking about the products.

[lachlan]

Does anybody know how much he got for it??? What ever he got its to much for me.

[Glen Alexander]

Maybe in future admin, you could auction off some of these prototypes and the proceeds could go to a charity, like the HRT gift set. Then they would get in the hands of serious collectors and not sold. All while doing something for a good cause.

[jager]

This situation stikes me as being similar to the 1998 retailers display model of the XY Falcon GTHO - Ultra White. Produced specifically to promote the Biante line, some (most ?) dealers then promptly sold of these pieces of history for a quick buck.

Despite this nobody seems to question the motivation or ethics of these sellers and everybody secretly wants one. I agree its disappointing for Biante that the model didn't go to someone who would truely appreciate it but then many collectables don't necessarily get truely appreciated by those who own them.

[Ford Boy]

ok, so everyone (including myself) has an opinion about whether or not this guy is right or wrong.... but would those who are saying he is wrong, hold anything against someone who bought the prototype of him??? not being picky, just interested in what people think? i know personally, i would be willing to pay for it, just not a ridiculous price....

[sboland]

I think everyone should send him an email thanking him for ruining it for everyone else.

[Andrew]

Well, the Webmasters' note on the Buy, Sell, Swap section where it is advertised says that because of this chap selling this car, Biante are not going to offer these prizes again. :mad:

Whether he needed to sell the car or not, for genuine or otherwise, or just to 'offer it for sale to a genuine collector who really wants it', those actions mean that any 'genuine collector' who wants to obtain another one now cannot, because Biante have removed the privilege. I may never have ever been lucky enough to win one, but now, no one else will either.

Admin, if you change your mind, I'd be honoured and wrapt to have a prototype - even one of the upcoming '91 Bathurst winning GT-R. Especially the '91 GT-R....

[Gumby]

Personally I think Biante are at fault here.

They offer this "one off" as a prize in a raffle, there is no guarantee just because someone is at this Bathurst event that they are a die-cast model collector. They then complain when the person who wins it does not act as they deem approriate.

I have many Biante models and think they are great. I would love to own a one off, and am prety much in agreement that I would not sell such a model if I owned it.

However if you are not going to offer these "one offs" to the die hard collectors in such a way that you have to go out of your way to obtain it how can Biante complain what this guy is doing. This guy probably doesn't even have any other Biante models or is not a Ford fan.

If I won a rare silver spoon in a raffle at some event and was told it was worth $5000 yeah I would sell it. Its not worth $5000 to me and would appreciate the money more.

If Biante don't want to offer more of these "one offs" to the public fine there is nothing we can do, disappointing but they hold all the cards.

But punishing the entire model community for something that is not our fault is well disappointing to say the least. Maybe in future Biante should think of a more appropriate way of distributing these collectables. Do you ever see Ford complaining when their XY GTHO sells for $100,000 or when someone wrecks one for parts which I know has happened b4 they became so desriable. I think not.

[diecastdude]

I wasn't at Bathurst but if its true that the car was won via a raffle and those raffle tickets were available to anyone who entered the area then its a whole new ball game, I thought that the model was only made available to those that put their names down to attend prior to the meet in which case it would have gone to a genuine collector but if it was up for grabs by any joe blow then the odds of it going to a genuine collector was very slim from the start which further reduces the odds of who ever won it keeping it anyway.

[Richard Poole]

The models (Brock VR and Johnson XE) were put up as the door prizes for the Biante gathering in the Holden merchandise tent that was very graciously loaned to us by the folks at Holden Motorsport and it was a closed venue. The tickets were only available to people who had 'booked' a ticket through our website and collectors club, not the general public.

As I packed the car up for this collector he told me he collected only Dick Johnson cars and was excited with his win. We always knew that there was a possibility that it may be sold one day and it is more dissapointment that it didn't go to someone who views it as something special for his collection (as Brad does with his pre prod sample) than anger that it is being sold. We know it is his model and he can do what he wants with it. Now hopefuly it will go to someone who really wants it.

These things aren't easy to get, I am still working on getting one:p

[diecastdude]

Well Richards response says it all, he was or claimed to be a genuine collector and the raffle was not open to anyone who walked in so I guess we can only file him in the same draw as heward555

[BATHURSTFAN]

It boils down to the individual collector. Some take it seriously and spend big bucks and live and breathe models.

Some don't even take models out of the box or remove strapping.

Some don't care about straps, boxes etc and put them in the cabinet on display.

This person may be a collector like the bottom group and whilst he's a Ford/DJR fan and collects models he'd rather the money from a one-off and would be happy with the normal production model.

Me ?, I would appreciate a model like that and I have never sold a model, in fact i hate selling anything, but there are times when you have to prioritise your spending.

I have a small collection, I appreciate the "normal' models and can only afford those, so anything out of the ordinary is out of the question for me.

[brchi17]

Hey guys,
Isn't interesting how this person has not said a word in their own defence of selling the above mentioned model ???

I personally, would love to see this person selling the model in question say their piece. Perhaps it could put things into perspective for us all.

While there are a lot of people out there who are not impressed by the sale of such a rare model at the end of the day, we can't do anything about because it isn't our model.

All we can do is learn from this expirence & don't lose your faith in the likeyhood of another rare model being given away in the future.

Sure this may upset some of us, but I sure most of us wish were in the position of owning such a rare & important model.

In the defence of the rest of us, I can only assure you all, that you will not see the same thing happen to my finished pre-production Dick Johnson 1983 XE Falcon model.

cheers.

[Ford Boy]

while i agree i wold never sell such a rare model, and think that the guy who did sell it is a fool.... if he hasnt posted a reply defending himself, he might simply feel he doesnt need to defend himself, and that his sale of the prototype was justified.... just a thought...

[Gumby]

Hmmm that is very disappointing to here, that it was given to a genuine collector.

I withdraw my previous comments.

It seems Biante did everything in good faith, its a shame.

On another note, just received my Moffat and Bond twin set those cars are fantastic, keep up the excellent standard. You don't mind forking over that sort of money when you receive something that looks like it is worth every cent!

[v8coupe]

Originally posted by Richard Poole
These things aren't easy to get, I am still working on getting one:p

Not wrong there. Think my odd's would be better in a raffle, as by Biante finishline tipping is a shocker.
Goal, to win at least 1 biante prize

[ferrari fan]

I do know of a pre production model that is in the possesion of a non model collector!
I am going to try to pry it out of him as I would like to have one in my collection.
The hunt is on for these unique models.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This one will be better in my collection than in his cupboard.
I never even thought of these ,but now my appitite is wetted.
She is coming to a good home.

[john]

Let the guy sell it. He will make a few quick bucks whilst the buyer gets to cherish his 2/2 DJ falcon. I know I would love to own it.