Excessive model numbers and car collectibility!

[VE II]

Thought i'd have a little rant. I really don't get why model companies come out and release thousands upon thousands of models in a market that will be flooded in the next 6 months with more then 30 models (Brocks, V8s, others etc). Using the 07 V8s, they are now averaging around $120-$130 each/team - thats around a $50 decrease in a few months. I'm never going to sell mine, but i hate to think that moment i walk out a shop, its decreased in value by 25%.

- CC 84 Bathurst had 15 000+ releases! After a month on ebay you can get it for $160ish. Close to a $30 drop / $1/day decrease. Its a great model and all but why so many?

- CC also announced that 9000 Bathurst 2007 cars will be released in August (6600 2006 models were released). Thats a crazy amount of cars! Especially when they are arguably the most collectible racing cars around. Only 1 or 2 models have ever decreased in value which is great for all collectors - but releasing 9000 cant be good.

I dont know what Biantes numbers will be for upcoming Brock and the Lowndes 96 Car, but i hope that they are sensible releases.

It cant be good for model stores either - cos people will stop preordering and will just wait for it to be cheap on ebay.


Feel free to rant here too - or to argue against what i've said.

[fordmad17]

I agree totally.

[HQGTS74]

im not going to rant on but i must say i second all ur comments mate. i totally agree...making thousands of one car means that in years to come they can still be bought for retail and they wont really be rare and sought after..look at biante models..when they make around 3000 of a particular car, even road cars they almost always go up in value over the years because they become hard to get....anywayyyyyyy
Chris

[Chev_350]

my 2c, I don't collect for future values and it really annoys me when people are selling rare cars in bits over ebay when some people who want whole cars in their collection couldn't secure a car.

[Oh Five]

In laymans terms, if i knew that i could sell 15.000 Vks at $195 then why would i only want to make 7000!!. CC are purely cashing in on the Brock name and the fact that this model is probably the most awaited in a long time
To prove they are cashing in, next comes the 25 car, THEN the twin set.

[Kashmir]

like what chev 350 said,, I don't buy a model just for profits, so it doesn't worry me how many are out there as long as I can get one.

[david5]

In laymans terms, if i knew that i could sell 15.000 Vks at $195 then why would i only want to make 7000!!. CC are purely cashing in on the Brock name and the fact that this model is probably the most awaited in a long time
To prove they are cashing in, next comes the 25 car, THEN the twin set.

But they are running a business, they have to make a profit, so when you are confident a model will sell well, you take advantage of it. This helps you cover the less popular, slower selling models. Your company makes a profit, you stay in business & collecters get to buy them. Its a necessary practice.

Cheers David

[fordmad17]

I bet the 25 car will sit on the shelf. anyone know what the run number is. I'm waiting for the twin set

[Brock 05]

From memory I think it was 2500. :thinking:

[fordmad17]

It will still sit on the shelves

[Brock 05]

Agree fordmad17, That & a lot more will be I would say considering the title wave that is about to hit us. :(

[Poita]

Looks like CC can't get rid of the VK's they have, my local model shop said CC rang him this week asking how many more VK's he wanted, he said he still hadn't got rid of the first lot they sent him.

I also spoke to a DJR rep regarding their models being made by Biante, expect them to be released in low collectible quantities.

[XU-123]

Same goes for the "moffat" phase 4......you can get them for $120....

[VE II]

i'm interested in seeing how many Brock 84s, Lowndes 96, and Brock 97s are made/will be made by Biante

[ferrari fan]

Look at the Porsche Le Mans that is part of the P. Brock collection and some of the Targa models.

[Holdennumber1]

I think that the sheer number of VK's that will become available will stop them from becoming very valuable. It would be a lot better if about 3000 were produced by each company.

[Brasha]

i'm interested in seeing how many Brock 84s, Lowndes 96, and Brock 97s are made/will be made by Biante

4500 I believe

[Brasha]

4500 I believe

i'm interested in seeing how many Brock 84s, Lowndes 96, and Brock 97s are made/will be made by Biante

Thats 4500 Lowndes '96.

Thought I should clarrify. I got a bit excited

[VE II]

a good sensible number too. Its an ATCC, HRT and Lowndes car so will sell well i imagine. but not enough to warrant 5000+. See how it goes.

[Damage]

What did I miss? Wheres this avalanche of Brock cars?

Seriously though, I do like the exclusivity of low production numbers not just for value but because I think they are more "desireable" to have for myself. I mean, I have lots of things in my office I dont like to impress people I dont know and I think most of us are probably like that with some things.

Look at the value of the 28c, 12000 made and still soughtafter. I like the number having a significance too, thats cool, like the 78, xxxx/7800.

To be honest with the CC 84 the number made actually put me off a bit and also I am "brand loyal" even though I keep getting stiffed on release dates.:(

Should we be saying: Keep it low Biante, even if it means jacking the price up a bit to compensate?

[rayman]

I just don't get some of you other "collectors". You complain when there are too little,then you complain when there are too many. What gives? Who cares how many are made, just as long as we get what we want.

[Holdennumber1]

I just don't get some of you other "collectors". You complain when there are too little,then you complain when there are too many. What gives? Who cares how many are made, just as long as we get what we want. Like Damage Inc said, they are more desirable if there is a low number. Also the value is affected and don't you actually want your diecast cars to be worth something one day?

[VE II]

Have a look at the V8s this year - most are going for $120.00 each... or less. People who did the right thing and preordered them from shops paid $170.00 odd and if they had waited another 2-3months could have saved $50.00.
Biante and CC use preorder numbers to get rough idea of demands etc and if we keep getting crazy releases, people will stop preordering and then companies wont know if theres enough demand for something.

[Holdennumber1]

VE Tander. You still have to pay around $165 to buy a 07 V8 Supercar the shops. Thats just $15 dollars less than buying them months ago. For $15 dollars more you can get them about 5 months earlier, which I would rather do. Plus on ebay where they go cheap, you don't know anything about the car for sale.

[Kashmir]

anyone want to have a guess at how many of Tander's and Lowndes 08 cars will be made

[Holdennumber1]

anyone want to have a guess at how many of Tander's and Lowndes 08 cars will be made How about 4000 for both Tander and Lowndes.

[VE II]

Im going to say - 2007 Tander Champ 3000 (on top of the 3500 already made)
Tander 2008 - 4000, Lowndes 4500, Skaife 4000

[sodonnell]

my 2c, I don't collect for future values and it really annoys me when people are selling rare cars in bits over ebay when some people who want whole cars in their collection couldn't secure a car.

It really defeats the purpose of the model car, if they make 500 cars and people pull these cars to bits than there is going to be 500 cars anymore especially what you said chev350 about people not securing them in the first place - i totally agree with you.

[rayman]

Like Damage Inc said, they are more desirable if there is a low number. Also the value is affected and don't you actually want your diecast cars to be worth something one day?

What do you mean more desirable. So you only collect the ones with low numbers made? I don't understand. You should buy what you want and enjoy them. You can't take them with you when you die.Someone else is going to end up with them in the end anyway, so what does it matter? If you want to invest in something with a good return, while you are still alive,then you should be looking at something else.

[MP4/22]

I have one for you .....

In 2006 I got the Rick Kelly championship car after the Goldcoast round and had it signed because i new he was going to win the championship and when he did Biante made a new car based on the last round.:mad:

So how much are they worth???? the Adelaide car had a number of 750 made and the philip island car had 3000 made.

[Holdennumber1]

What do you mean more desirable. So you only collect the ones with low numbers made? I don't understand. You should buy what you want and enjoy them. You can't take them with you when you die.Someone else is going to end up with them in the end anyway, so what does it matter? If you want to invest in something with a good return, while you are still alive,then you should be looking at something else. Desirable as in everyone wants one. I feel more accomplished if I buy a diecast car that everyone wants and is very hard to get. It makes a collection stand out, by you having a car that no one else has, but they want.

[VE II]

agree with holdennumber1. you dont want to have a car in ur collection that everyone else has. we're talking more then financial value here too.
also you dont want the pride and joy of your collection - say the Brock 84, sitting in dust piles in model shops cos they cant budge. That car would be so much more valuable (Collectable wise) if CC had released a normal number (and if biante release a normal number)

[MP4/22]

Desirable as in everyone wants one. I feel more accomplished if I buy a diecast car that everyone wants and is very hard to get. It makes a collection stand out, by you having a car that no one else has, but they want.


I don't think so anyone can buy a 1972 or 2003 bathurst winner if they have the $$$ What makes a collection is the subject such as a car or driver with cars that are hard or easy to get............ But time consuming.

That is what makes a collection.:cool:

[Footy]

I don't think so anyone can buy a 1972 or 2003 bathurst winner if they have the $$$ What makes a collection is the subject such as a car or driver with cars that are hard or easy to get............ But time consuming.

That is what makes a collection.:cool:

I always thought a collection is what you make it.;)

[Leigh]

Have a look at the V8s this year - most are going for $120.00 each... or less. People who did the right thing and preordered them from shops paid $170.00 odd and if they had waited another 2-3months could have saved $50.00.
Biante and CC use preorder numbers to get rough idea of demands etc and if we keep getting crazy releases, people will stop preordering and then companies wont know if theres enough demand for something.

To those who like to gamble on model releases and "save" a few bob on most of the releases by picking them up "cheaper" a few weeks/months later is fine by me...but they eventually have to pay exhorbitant prices on one or two models which destroy the savings:eek: (while I pick up those models retail due to my loyalty).

Exactly why so many missed out on the DJR Westpoint cars initially...and exactly why they commanded (and still command) exhorbitant prices...

[spiderken17]

I think the main problem is that people want models of their favourite cars to be the rare ones. When in actual fact it is the least popular cars that the models of become rare.
The prime example is the 84 Brock VK. Everyone likes that car so it makes sense for Biante/CC to make a lot of them as they know they will sell and the companies make large profits (making money is their goal remember). If they only made 1000 of them, sure they will sell and become rare but the manufacturer doesn't make any more money from it, only the people who originally bought one and sell it on make the money. If i was to decide whether to sell a thousand $200 cars or five thousand $200 cars i know which i would choose.
My collection is cars i like, not cars i think might be worth something in the future. If i wanted that i would buy all the cars with low production numbers and hope they increase in value, but then the models wouldn't mean anything to me. I buy the cars i want regardless of future value, in the end thats why its MY collection.

[HDTeam]

If we were true 'collectors', then there would be no need to profit from a sale - we would simply sit back and appreciate what we have!

The excess of Brock models may allow some younger collectors to obtain a desirable model , which under any other circumstances may be out of reach - case in point LJ's #1 & 28C.

[inter]

A complete collection is the collection that brings you happines, rekindles memories and places a smile in you face............no matter what value;)

[VE II]

i personally preorder all my items - only buy older models from ebay - and i collect to a theme. but i still think some release numbers are crazy and unnecessary. With the DJR westpoint cars, i think in many ways, the fact that they are worth a lot, makes them desirable and people go - oh i have an expensive car, or i need an expensive car, it must be good. rather then if they really like the car/driver.

[singer]

My Son & I just enjoy collecting.

The value for us is in the enjoyment we get, even down to playing with them.

No amount of money will replace good memories:)

[Holdennumber1]

i personally preorder all my items - only buy older models from ebay - and i collect to a theme. but i still think some release numbers are crazy and unnecessary. With the DJR westpoint cars, i think in many ways, the fact that they are worth a lot, makes them desirable and people go - oh i have an expensive car, or i need an expensive car, it must be good. rather then if they really like the car/driver. Good point about the DJR models. Some people collect cars only to sell them and make a profit when the time is right. Personally, I could care less if one of my models was worth nothing but I would rather it be worth something. Also, I myself, have bought all my diecasts brand new (except for 1). Like written above, some of the Brock cars are out of range to young collectors (like myself) but if CC's and Biante made just 2000 VK's each, we could still get our hands on them by pre-ordering the cars and paying retail price for them and just not worry about the expensive cars.

[lachlan]

Personally, I could care less if one of my models was worth nothing but I would rather it be worth something.

So you don't care but you do?? :D

[Holdennumber1]

So you don't care but you do?? :D Sorry, I wrote the wrong thing. I meant that if one of my models was worth a lot, it would be good. But if it wasn't worth anything at all, I wouldn't care either.

[lachlan]

Sorry, I wrote the wrong thing. I meant that if one of my models was worth a lot, it would be good. But if it wasn't worth anything at all, I wouldn't care either.

Same here, if its worth something all well and good If its worth nothing I don't give a rats. I collect mostly rally models and most of them go down in value but I get'em cause I like them not to make money.

[david5]

Like Damage Inc said, they are more desirable if there is a low number. Also the value is affected and don't you actually want your diecast cars to be worth something one day?

Your very hard to keep track of, thought you didnt care ?

As I sat down to browse the forum this morning, i glanced over at my cabinet & thought "how tuff does that VK look sitting there" & I smiled, thats why I collect. I also get a thrill out of buying the cheap models, like the Bond/Jones Caltex Sierra, that is one pretty race car, paid $65.00. I will get a WGR Coke VT for less than $40.00
soon, great looking car, never forget it blowing a tyre at the chase, will look spectacular in the cabinet. I have no interest in road cars or concepts, so you can keep your EFIJYs, Westpoint represents DJRs darkest days no interest there, so you can keep those thanks.
Biante are releasing new R32s so there goes the value of the old ones & CC will probably do XU1s eventually so cash in now or miss out. Ill keep mine because I just like looking at it.

Cheers David

[Holdennumber1]

Your very hard to keep track of, thought you didnt care ?
Cheers David Just because I said that a cars with limited editions of about 3000 are more desirable, It doesn't mean I care if one of my diecasts is worth nothing either. Sure, I want some cars that are desirable/hard to get, but I couldn't care less if one of mine had no value.

[david5]

Just because I said that a cars with limited editions of about 3000 are more desirable, It doesn't mean I care if one of my diecasts is worth nothing either. Sure, I want some cars that are desirable/hard to get, but I couldn't care less if one of mine had no value.

So if its low, dont care, if its high you care, if its bad,its bad,if its good,thats good.

Cheers David

[Damage]

I think this is a great thread. Personally I think low is best in case you hadnt worked that out yet.;)

[hobby]

My Son & I just enjoy collecting.

The value for us is in the enjoyment we get, even down to playing with them.

No amount of money will replace good memories:)

well said Ken.

[Holdennumber1]

So if its low, dont care, if its high you care, if its bad,its bad,if its good,thats good.

Cheers David OK, I'll put it this way. I don't care how much any of my cars are worth. If it is worth nothing, I don't care and if it is worth a lot, I don't care either. I have my model cars to enjoy, not sit around arguing about if I care about their value or not.

[Peter Minahan]

Like Damage Inc said, they are more desirable if there is a low number. Also the value is affected and don't you actually want your diecast cars to be worth something one day?


Encapsulated in one sentence is the difference between a true collector and a speculator.

[halbster]

Do I care, if you care that he cares that I care.....


Geeese there's a lot of caring going on in here....am I on the wrong forum !!!

[Damage]

Encapsulated in one sentence is the difference between a true collector and a speculator.

Yes but if they are lower in production numbers, effectively the hobby will cost you nothing in the long term and that a rarity.

If I want a collection to depreciate rapidly I'll buy brand new 1:1 cars.

[david5]

Do I care, if you care that he cares that I care.....


Geeese there's a lot of caring going on in here....am I on the wrong forum !!!

Theres a lot of love in the room, can we join hands & sing Kuum by are....

Cheers David

PS Toecutter, how do you spell Kuum by are ?

[david5]

OK, I'll put it this way. I don't care how much any of my cars are worth. If it is worth nothing, I don't care and if it is worth a lot, I don't care either. I have my model cars to enjoy, not sit around arguing about if I care about their value or not.

OK big fella, just pulling your leg..... a bit.

Cheers David

[Holdennumber1]

OK big fella, just pulling your leg..... a bit.

Cheers David I personally don't worry about values anyway as I have such a small collection(only 12 1:18s and hardly any 1:43's). Like I wrote in my previous post, my cars are here to enjoy, not to worry about the value. I have no intention to sell them and make big profits, so the value is not important.

P.S, whats with the big fella thing?

[david5]

I personally don't worry about values anyway as I have such a small collection(only 12 1:18s and hardly any 1:43's). Like I wrote in my previous post, my cars are here to enjoy, not to worry about the value. I have no intention to sell them and make big profits, so the value is not important.

P.S, whats with the big fella thing?

Dont worry, Ive heard the girls whisper.....Chris pay attention to about 5 % of what I say...the rest is only rubbish.

Cheers David

[Oh Five]

5% !!! Exaggerating a bit arnt ya;)

[david5]

Just trying to pump myself up :2thumbsup:

[moffatxc]

Same goes for the "moffat" phase 4......you can get them for $120....


they are woth more than that

[moffatxc]

What did I miss? Wheres this avalanche of Brock cars?

Seriously though, I do like the exclusivity of low production numbers not just for value but because I think they are more "desireable" to have for myself. I mean, I have lots of things in my office I dont like to impress people I dont know and I think most of us are probably like that with some things.

Look at the value of the 28c, 12000 made and still soughtafter. I like the number having a significance too, thats cool, like the 78, xxxx/7800.

To be honest with the CC 84 the number made actually put me off a bit and also I am "brand loyal" even though I keep getting stiffed on release dates.:(

Should we be saying: Keep it low Biante, even if it means jacking the price up a bit to compensate?


Most people can not afford if you jack up the prices???

[moffatxc]

A complete collection is the collection that brings you happines, rekindles memories and places a smile in you face............no matter what value;)


Coming from a person that is preoccupied by working out model prces:confused:

[Footy]

Coming from a person that is preoccupied by working out model prces:confused:
Obviously new around here.:rolleyes:

[moffatxc]

Obviously new around here.:rolleyes:
what does that mean????:confused:

[malscar]

I think what footy is saying, is that if you had been on the forum for a while, you would know that inter keeps stats on a whole range of things not necessarily models. He just loves keeping stats. This includes stats from sports he loves or he and his family participate in.

He is kind enough to share stats relating to diecast models with other members of the forum including ones who have only joined to request information from him. If he was in it just for increasing the value of his model collection, then he would not be sharing the information.

[Damage]

I think what footy is saying, is that if you had been on the forum for a while, you would know that inter keeps stats on a whole range of things not necessarily models. He just loves keeping stats. This includes stats from sports he loves or he and his family participate in.

He is kind enough to share stats relating to diecast models with other members of the forum including ones who have only joined to request information from him. If he was in it just for increasing the value of his model collection, then he would not be sharing the information.

Here here. Now that xcmoffat is more informed and learned I just wanted to add that I'm sure that Biante will release a smaller number of the 84 VK because theres enough out there for every man and his dog already. IMO anyhting over 4 or 5000 would be a waste of time and money.

There are people like me (shock horror), who will not buy CC no matter what they make, but many more who have the 84 now, so wont bother. The market got flooded.

[sodonnell]

what does that mean????:confused:

I think he means that you are new around here as you don't know that "inter" is one of our valued members that keeps track of the model prices so that we don't pay too much, you just have to take a look around the forum and you will see what he means.;)

[brchi17]

I think he means that you are new around here as you don't know that "inter" is one of our valued members....

so how is he worth....I'm thinking of selling him on eBay :p :D lol

[Damage]

I wonder how many of us who "dont care" about model or collection values follow inter's stats with interest...

[Footy]

what does that mean????:confused:
Thanks Malscar,Sodonell,is what I was referring to.:)

[moffatxc]

ok no probs

[ferrari fan]

Great that this "newby" has been "informed" of who Inter actualy is and what he stands for.
Some of us have been contributing to this forum for a very long time (10 odd years) and formed some firm friendships.

[moffatxc]

Great that this "newby" has been "informed" of who Inter actualy is and what he stands for.
Some of us have been contributing to this forum for a very long time (10 odd years) and formed some firm friendships.


who are the long standing menbers?????:confused:

[monarocveightz]

who are the long standing menbers?????:confused:


Have a look at the right hand side of peoples posts....it tells you when they joined....

[Holdennumber1]

Have a look at the right hand side of peoples posts....it tells you when they joined.... Or go to "members list" and click on "join date" and it will show everyone who joined the forum in order.