BA Bonnet

[BATHURSTFAN]

I just went down (again) to DJR's and they have an unpainted BA shell on the hoist and next to it was a bonnet with the bulge?

Has this issue been sorted out AND CAN THEY USE THEM?

[oldxr]

I hope so, whats the use on racing in the V8 supercar series if you car has to look like the 6 cylinder version of the product you trying to sell.

[XR8]

Having observed the test car in its' entireity, and provided the car submitted for homologation is the same AND approved; I don't see how they can't use the XR8 bonnet.

Even though there would be the possibility of utilising such space to Ford's advantage, I seriously doubt that it would pass through scrutineering if such an illegal modification was performed.

This would only result in the disqualification of such vehicle after a race win or place anyway.

Further to that, if ANY vehicle in a race-car group is suspected of being illegal, that's what the protest system is about, and such a modification would be dealt with regardless.

Certainly someone with great knowledge of the V8 Supercar rules would have come forward by now, to show where such a factory produced bonnet for the intended model car that Falcon is based on, would contravene the regulations...........

To do otherwise, would just REEK of the typical Anti-Ford bias that has existed since modifications were performed to the EF in 1995.

If Holden's (or any other maker that competes in the future) has a problem with it, they could always homolgate THEIR individual bonnet type if they so wished.

This would make the road going Commodore owners happy, I'm sure!!!!

Either way, I suppose we will just have to wait for the outcome, like everything else!!!

Ed :)

[mustang1966]

Bathurstfan,

I read somewhere that the BA was not going to run the bonnet with the bulge, because of some advantage to the Aero package on the car.


I also read today that more testing was done down at Avalon and the aero packages between the cars are pretty close. There are some differences but not to much.

[the_goldie]

All this parity BS is getting a bit boring...I am guessing that all the teams can do now is tweak this a little and tweak that a little and that's it, if they are lucky.

They may as well be driving dodgem cars @the local circus.

Let Ford have the bonnet buldge BIG S##T. As mentioned before the cars are going to be so similar the only difference will be the badge on the bonnet and the Fords bonnet buldge.

[fordlord]

i would hav to argree with oldxr , they will look tough!! lets see this new ford team prodrive . its gonna be 1 interesting year of racing!!

[PaulS]

Yep, unfortunally it does look like there will be no bulge allowed, one thing was that the Holden Camp was concerned that the Ford teams would be allowed to have large somethings on top of the engine because of the bulge.
You'd think that it would cause more down force too.

The BA SBR car that was released with Ingall didnt have a bulge either.

[brchi17]

Unfortunately, I feel that Holden may have won again on the bonnet issue.

Apparently they (Holden) believe that the extra hight above the motor (that the XR8 boluge creates) will allow the Ford teams to improve the air intake into the engines.

Once again it appears that Holden (not AVESCO) run the V8 series as it would have not hurt them (Holden) to allow the Ford teams to run an XR8 rather than a fake model which the XR will be without the all improtant boluge in the bonnet.

Why not place a fiberglass/plastic etc..., copy of the boluge on top of a flat bonnet, so that at least the car would have the appearance of an XR8 & stiil give Holden what they percieved is to be a fair/level playing field.

cheers.

[mustang1966]

Cam,

sorry mate my comments were not meant to knock Holden in any way. Mate I don't want tp start any flame fest here in this Forum.

Scalelectric anyone?

[Malik]

brchi17,

Putting the fibreglass bulge on prolly wouldnt work either depending on what it did for the cars downforce and all

hell.. Im a holden supporter.. I say let ford have their bulge.. it might improve the front downforce enough to make the fords competitive this year... we need the challenge...

[mustang1966]

I dont wish to start a Holden V Ford flame fest here but a few questions to Malik.

Where was the difference in the falcon to the commodore last year in the aero package? Where did HRT main challenge come from last year?

Both Ingal and Bargs have made comments in the press about the difference between the Falcon and the Commodore with understeer in the Falcon. Would this be because of a difference in the front Aero package, or was it in the double wishbone front suspension?

If the Ford is crap and Holden need a challenge next year, why are Holden gaining the double wishbone front?

What are Holden also gaining a siamised head simular to the SVO Yates on the Falcon?

Now if we look at last season and the results, yes Mark Skaife won the series by a good margin and it came down to many factors. Simply knocking Ford teams is a pretty crappy way to discuss things without adding any facts. I seem to remember HRT having engine problems towards the end of the season, did you forget about that?

Maybe we should look at the points tally after 1st place and how close the points were between 2 - 5 place. Yes there was only one Ford in there, but am I right in saying the SBR team were the next best team with race wins and round wins besides HRT?

So simply making facts about Ford having to lift thier game and how great Holden were is a crap statement to make. I think most of the Holden teams need to lift thier game as well. There are other Holden racing teams besides HRT you know or are you just ignorant to any bar HRT?

HRT deserved to win the series last year. I will be the first to admit that and yes all other teams (HOLDEN & FORD) need to lift thier act but as I said before hand, saying ford are crap is utter bull.

[the_goldie]

None taken Mark... just wish they would sort out all the BS and just race the darn cars...
One good thing is we get to go to Eastern Creek twice, Oran Park and Bathurst this year :D

[XR8]

Originally posted by brchi17
Unfortunately, I feel that Holden may have won again on the bonnet issue.

Apparently they (Holden) believe that the extra hight above the motor (that the XR8 boluge creates) will allow the Ford teams to improve the air intake into the engines.

Once again it appears that Holden (not AVESCO) run the V8 series as it would have not hurt them (Holden) to allow the Ford teams to run an XR8 rather than a fake model which the XR will be without the all improtant boluge in the bonnet.

Why not place a fiberglass/plastic etc..., copy of the boluge on top of a flat bonnet, so that at least the car would have the appearance of an XR8 & stiil give Holden what they percieved is to be a fair/level playing field.

cheers.

This really sucks.
I stand by my original post on this subject, and still believe that the systems in place would catch any Ford Racer trying to do the wrong thing.
If is is true that Holden will get their own way (yet again), then what the bloody hell are Ford doing even bothering to produce a kit for the BA..................
If Holden wants such a one-sided playing field, (of which they virtually have, RE: Project Blueprint), then they may as well have it. SO MUCH FOR PARITY!!!

I think it's nearly time to go and support another type of Australian racing, instead of this Supercar crap.

*off my smokebox now, going to cool down....*

Ed :)

[Malik]

Mustang.. considering Im not a mechanic and I watch the supercars for the enjoyment factor and not to pick the two cars apart about their aeropackage and suspension it would be plainly obvious that no matter how I answer your questions your going to have a counter responce that would be neither favourable nor nice regardless of if I was right or wrong anyways...

BUT...

I can only say what I have heard ...

From memory the aeropackaging differences last year were Holden had more front downforce and Ford had more rear downforce.. hence the Holdens were told to modify their front spoiler by some 2 millimeteres or some absurd amount.. and I cant remember if it was last year or the year before all teams were given the same front spoiler anyways to address the issue as I recall one particular race (Wannaroo I think) where the fords were constantly losing their spoiler due to the attachment points being different....

To my understanding the Holdens are gaining the double wishbone's due to the parity rules.. I wont post my own opinion here as it would start flaming...

Considering I dont know what the hell a SVO Yates is... No Comment

As for knocking fords... I knock them because I dont like them.. Period... so no amount of facts is going to change my mind.. as for the increase amount of engine problems I believe that was eventually put down to realtime testing of new components for this years competition and started occuring mostly after Skaife had already secured the series.. and also seemed to be mainly occuring in skaife's car as bright still had the chance to gain a HRT one-two series win..

and Congrats to SBR on their achievment last year.. I think it proves that with the right amount of time and money the AU COULD win races and pose a challenge.. unfortunatly. a little to late.. but congrats where congrats are due...

on the flip side I also say congrats to the other Holden teams for various achievements in last years competition considering the limitations they suffer due to limited funding for their competition..

yes perhaps the other teams need to lift their game also and yes perhaps HRT does excell with their team and effort.. there is alot to be said about the amount of $$$$ the teams get...

Yes Mustang I do support HRT... I have loved Holdens since before I can remember so it would be a logical progression to support the Holden Racing Team seeing I follow the supercar series... as for bagging fords being utter BS.. well.. i said earlier.. I dont like fords.. I never have and it is extremely doubtful I ever will.. my reasons for this are my own and I wont be posting them on this forum for all to read...

I will say though.. credit where credit is due... ford have come out with some decent products in the past.. some of which I would buy/use if the need arose..... while I wont be rushing out to buy a falcon anytime soon nor changing my support for HRT and other holden teams... the Ford Mustang (the old ones not the new ones) I would love to own one... the Shelby... (Gone in 60 seconds... what can I say).... and considering most drag teams I know of are thrashing the ford 9" diff's left right and center and finding them extremely hard to break.... cant go wrong there...

[GRPIII]

WITH ALL THE *****IN ABOUT FORD & RUNNING THE BULGED BONNET. FORD & ITS FANS SHOULD BE HAPPY THAT CAN RUN WITH THE XR8 FRONT.
SINCE THE INTRODUCTION OF THE AU, AVESCO & HOLDEN GRANTED PERMISSION FOR FORD TO RUN ITS CARS IN XR8 FORM.
WHY? ONLY CAUSE IT LOOKS BETTER. IMAGINE THE GREEN EYED MONSTER WITH BIG TRIANGLED EYES!!
SO STOP ALL YOUR WHINGING, THE FORD COULD BE RUNNING A STANDARD FRONT END & BE CALLED JUST A FALCON NOT THE XR8 ITS CALLED, HOLDEN DOESNT CALL ITS CARS SS, SV8 OR GTS.
BE GRATEFULL THAT YOUR GOT TWIN HEADLIGHT FRONTS.

[admin]

Calm down guys...you will get your bulge...there is no conspiracy..just a logical explanation as you will see when the XR8 is launched.

[XR8]

Originally posted by GRPIII
WITH ALL THE *****IN ABOUT FORD & RUNNING THE BULGED BONNET. FORD & ITS FANS SHOULD BE HAPPY THAT CAN RUN WITH THE XR8 FRONT.
SINCE THE INTRODUCTION OF THE AU, AVESCO & HOLDEN GRANTED PERMISSION FOR FORD TO RUN ITS CARS IN XR8 FORM.
WHY? ONLY CAUSE IT LOOKS BETTER. IMAGINE THE GREEN EYED MONSTER WITH BIG TRIANGLED EYES!!
SO STOP ALL YOUR WHINGING, THE FORD COULD BE RUNNING A STANDARD FRONT END & BE CALLED JUST A FALCON NOT THE XR8 ITS CALLED, HOLDEN DOESNT CALL ITS CARS SS, SV8 OR GTS.
BE GRATEFULL THAT YOUR GOT TWIN HEADLIGHT FRONTS.

Thanks Admin, I am calm now!!!

In reply, GrpIII, the reason that Ford wanted to run the AU with the XR front was from a marketing point of view.

They felt the need to maket the Ford Supercar as an XR8, and not just a Falcon. This is why they requested the change from both Avesco and Holden, not "just because it looked better" as you've stated.

The main reason I am whinging, as you so put it, is the fact that this time, Ford with the creation of the BA have incorporated the styling differences into their bodykit.

They desire to model their racecar on the XR8 from the outset.

They have not decided halfway through the process that they wish to do so.

If there is the potential for Ford Teams to receive any sort of performance benefit form the extra engine bay room, it will surely be outside the current regulations as specified for induction etc.

If you read my first post, you will see that I believe any such potential to modify the cars outside the current regulations, would be negated through the scruitineering and protest systems currently in place.

It is in the principle of the matter that I am concerned.

Should Ford have their kit homolagated, as fitted to the test car, then that's what they should be allowed to run.

Notwithstanding of course, the current testing and modifications for the downforce etc..

As I mentioned in my earlier post, if Holden, or whoever else wish to name their cars SS, or have a bonnet bulge, or whatever:
then they only need to follow the correct procedure, as Ford have done.

Regards, Eddie.

[mustang1966]

Admin,

I am calm as well.

I am just sick and tired of people Ford bashing. Maybe I should go back to Conrod.com.au where it is accepted. On the most part I find people in here pretty damn good and not out to just talk rubbish about Ford having to lift thier act and no one else.

I have never disputed the fact that HRT are the team to beat, they have done a wonderful job but to knock Ford teams and tell them to lift thier acts after the EB and EL falcons makes me just wonder, why Holden teams were not told to lift thier act, instead of parity changes, crying and threats of legal action.

I like everyone else wants to see close racing between teams of either brands. I am still amazed how forgetfull some people tend to be. Lets all hope for good close racing and some results where the smaller teams are up there in the points and the odd race win.

SBR and to a degree BJR have done a wonderful job. I am sure that with John Bowe joining BJR it has made the world of difference.

SBR lifted the act this year and barring a few problems it would have been up closer to HRT number 1.

Malik I follow Ford but I don't hate Holden infact I have been unbised enough to own 2 commodores.

GRPIII I dont give a rats if ford get the BULDGE or not, as stated I want to see good racing and somthing where all teams are in with a shot, be Ford or Holden.

Thank you

Mark

[brchi17]

Originally posted by admin
Calm down guys...you will get your bulge...there is no conspiracy..just a logical explanation as you will see when the XR8 is launched.

So when is the XR8 being launched ???

I origonally heard that it was being released at the Melbourne motor show in Feb/March, but I've also heard that they are already at some Ford dearlers.

How about sharing some information with us, instead of teasing like the above quote :D

just can't wait ,
cheers.

[BATHURSTFAN]

The Bonnet I saw at DJR was primed ready for painting, so it looks like its a goer, unless its on stand-by.

[GRPIII]

XR8
i thought looks were a marketing ploy.
i agree that that ford should be able to run with the xr8 bonnet, in my opinion it wouldnt make any aerodynamic differences anyway, but the rules are SUPPOSED to be that they run with a standard bonnet.
if we start to get on the topic of this car comes out with this feature so it should be able race with it, we'd get no where.
ford - no bonnet
holden - no mcpherson struts
so all project blueprint has done is destroyed what little resemmblance the road going cars have with the race cars.
if ford & holden want to use the win on sunday sell on monday moto, they should be backing the gtp production cars, & not just with privateers, full factory support, maybe in a few years this may happen.
since the partiy issue has started i think holden has drawn the short straws in road/race differences, at the time both cars had live axles, a ford nine inch being the best choice, due to its strength,
*holden was never aloud to run independent rear suspension, in which at the time ford didnt have. rules state both cars to have live axles.
*level 1 teams at the time had to change to the chev from the 308/304, wheres fords run the same motor since the intro of the v8 series.
*holden did & has run a six speeds in commodores since late 89 with the VN GRP A., ford has never & still hasnt a 6 speed falcon.
so thats one back for the falcon.
*ford aloud to run XR8 fronts for marketing, so why couldnt holden run a 2 door again for marketing, rules state must be 4 door.
*now they make holden run wishbone suspension, which ford has again run since the introduction of v8 supercar.
*these points have nothing to do with aeropackages,
if you look at the at the major changes over the years within the rules, holden has changed motors & now suspension
were ford has not.
the other points are not related within the rules.
so again stop whinging about how ford are hard done by, holden has had plenty of changes the years & come good.
i am against the wishbone suspension, but they are the rules.
if they run these cars how they should be, we would be watching the GTP's, the next thing with the parity issue will have to use the same chassis, just drop a ford or holden shell on your chassis just like the aussie legend series.
so if hrt dominates again this year, what will ford whinge about. ford now has the upper hand in the series. holden has no telemetry for any curcuits to go by,ford suspension points may have changed but a least they have a starting point.
so if ford doesnt dominate holden this year, it might just prove that some teams are better than others. it may take holden a little while to find its feet, but when they do it will be catch as if you can again.

[fordlord]

yes people the xr8 "s are on the roads !!! i have not seen 1 on the road yet but my older brother works at a ford dealership in bris and 2 of have been sold and delivered!!! they r out there!!

[XR8]

GRPIII, I will try to provide a reply point by pont..

Originally posted by GRPIII

i thought looks were a marketing ploy.

- yes one of many.

i agree that that ford should be able to run with the xr8 bonnet, in my opinion it wouldnt make any aerodynamic differences anyway, but the rules are SUPPOSED to be that they run with a standard bonnet.

- The bonnet as fitted to the Ford Test Car is in actual fact, a STANDARD XR8 bonnet.

if we start to get on the topic of this car comes out with this feature so it should be able race with it, we'd get no where.
ford - no bonnet
holden - no mcpherson struts

- True, though I didn't mean it in that context. I meant it as in "the way the car is presented to Avesco for homolgation or certifcation".

so all project blueprint has done is destroyed what little resemmblance the road going cars have with the race cars.

- yes, agree with you there!

if ford & holden want to use the win on sunday sell on monday moto, they should be backing the gtp production cars, & not just with privateers, full factory support, maybe in a few years this may happen.

- Yes, I agree with you there. I believe the racing would be far better, and more entertaining.

since the partiy issue has started i think holden has drawn the short straws in road/race differences, at the time both cars had live axles, a ford nine inch being the best choice, due to its strength,

- That is somewhat debatable with regards to Holdens' having drawn the short straw.
They were Avesco rules, not Ford.

*holden was never aloud to run independent rear suspension, in which at the time ford didnt have. rules state both cars to have live axles.

- Once again, Avesco rules, not Ford.

*level 1 teams at the time had to change to the chev from the 308/304, wheres fords run the same motor since the intro of the v8 series.

- This was a manufacturing change by Holden.
Also a rule change by Avesco to accomodate Holden.
With the blessing of Ford.

*holden did & has run a six speeds in commodores since late 89 with the VN GRP A., ford has never & still hasnt a 6 speed falcon.
so thats one back for the falcon.

- Avesco rules, not Ford

*ford aloud to run XR8 fronts for marketing, so why couldnt holden run a 2 door again for marketing, rules state must be 4 door.

- A front clip with different headlights, with regards to the AU Falcon, is nowhere near a Commodore with totally different bodyshell. Also a rule change with the blessing of Avesco, and Holden.

*now they make holden run wishbone suspension, which ford has again run since the introduction of v8 supercar.

- Avesco, (Blueprint) ruling, not Ford.

*these points have nothing to do with aeropackages,

- Yes, I agree with you there.

if you look at the at the major changes over the years within the rules, holden has changed motors & now suspension
were ford has not.

- These were Holdens' choices, not Ford.

the other points are not related within the rules.

- Yes, I agree with you there.

so again stop whinging about how ford are hard done by, holden has had plenty of changes the years & come good.

- As above, these were Holdens' choices, not Ford. In my opinion, the area where I believe Ford have been hard done by, is particularly with the EB to EL Falcon, as mentioned by Mustang 1966 above. There were critcial changes made to the Ford areokit at critical stages of the championships. IE Bathurst.
From the AU on, the system has been very slow to promote improvement to the package. It has only been through a small number of Ford teams, that we have seen any real improvement.
There was no mention made that Holden should be forced to catch up to Ford at the time.
I don't want to dig all this up again, and will leave it at that.

i am against the wishbone suspension, but they are the rules.

- Yes, I agree with you there. The Commodore and the Falcon have always had their differences, and these make them independent of each other. I don't believe this should change.

if they run these cars how they should be, we would be watching the GTP's, the next thing with the parity issue will have to use the same chassis, just drop a ford or holden shell on your chassis just like the aussie legend series.

- I'd hate to see that happen!!, I'd rather GTP!!

so if hrt dominates again this year, what will ford whinge about. ford now has the upper hand in the series. holden has no telemetry for any curcuits to go by,ford suspension points may have changed but a least they have a starting point.

- If HRT does dominate this year, then I have no doubt that it will be in part, due to their professionalsm that they have demonstrated the whole of 2002. It will be up to the Ford teams, and the rest of the Holden teams to knuckle down and meet the challenge. At the same time, if their domination is glaringly obvious, then there should be something done to even up the teams, if need be. Not sure how that could be done though!!
But at the same time, as in my original post; if Ford choose to model their racecar on the XR8, complete with whatever bonnet that they put on it, AND that if it passes the certification process, as dictated by Avesco, there shouldn't be any problem!!

so if ford doesnt dominate holden this year, it might just prove that some teams are better than others. it may take holden a little while to find its feet, but when they do it will be catch as if you can again.

- That may well be the case. Maybe Ford will play catch up again, who knows? I'm certainly hoping that it's the other way around!!
But really, with the engineering expertise that Holden have in their camp, for example, Larry Perkins, Ron Harrop, etc, I really don't think that Holden will be behind the 8-ball at all..
They are switched on people, and their pride is on the line!!

See you at the track sometime!!

Ed :)

[admin]

And apart from all the above, what of the Holden teams running 2002 VX models while the rest sort out the new cars, and getting 3 or 4 wins on the board?
Does that mean its a parity thing, NO way.
It just means, once again, one or two teams using their brains, team members and resources to achieve the ultimate objective,,,,which is, to win races.

[GRPIII]

i dont think you will see hrt running vx's it wouldnt be a good marketing point to sell one model & run another, but how many ford teams will be running au's?
the way the aero testings going, they wont even have time to get the ba & vu into race spec in time.
XR8
you agree with most points exepct that the engine & suspension are holden choice, wrong its avesco.
*ford did not get the eb-el nobled
remember larry switching back to the vp from the vr for bathurst, for a similiar reason.
*yes ford should be able to run the bonnet, and it should have nothing to do with the homolgation of the aeropackge, as it is not part of the bodykit it is part of the vehicle. but the rules i have heard is they are running a standard bonnet.
as much as i enjoy the v8's the last & only differences between the two was the suspension, now this has changed the only diffference now is the badge on the bonnet, like nascar.
but if ford is serious about winning they should stop poaching drivers, lowdnes bargs & ingall and start poaching some enginereers.
but then again they need some drivers with bathurst winning experience, name two drivers that have won the bathurst 1000 driving a ford v8 supercar. -still driving a ford.
i can only recall one.
so maybe with fords poached holden bathurst winners, ford might just get some winning experience at the mountain.

[XR8]

Originally posted by GRPIII
i dont think you will see hrt running vx's it wouldnt be a good marketing point to sell one model & run another, but how many ford teams will be running au's?
the way the aero testings going, they wont even have time to get the ba & vu into race spec in time.
XR8
you agree with most points exepct that the engine & suspension are holden choice, wrong its avesco.
*ford did not get the eb-el nobled
remember larry switching back to the vp from the vr for bathurst, for a similiar reason.
*yes ford should be able to run the bonnet, and it should have nothing to do with the homolgation of the aeropackge, as it is not part of the bodykit it is part of the vehicle. but the rules i have heard is they are running a standard bonnet.
as much as i enjoy the v8's the last & only differences between the two was the suspension, now this has changed the only diffference now is the badge on the bonnet, like nascar.
but if ford is serious about winning they should stop poaching drivers, lowdnes bargs & ingall and start poaching some enginereers.
but then again they need some drivers with bathurst winning experience, name two drivers that have won the bathurst 1000 driving a ford v8 supercar. -still driving a ford.
i can only recall one.
so maybe with fords poached holden bathurst winners, ford might just get some winning experience at the mountain.

GRPIII,
sorry mate, I made an error regarding the engine and suspension.
The suspension is a Blueprint issue, not decided by Holden.

As far as engine's go, yes, Avesco has allowed the Holdens to run the Chev engine.
Mind you, this was borne out of a number of items, two of which were - 1. Cost, and 2. The fact that Holden didn't make the 304 / 308 any more.
Perhaps they should have run the Ford engine instead??
(Just kidding mate!!)

You are correct, Ford did not knobble the EB-EL Falcons, it was a a decision by Avesco, with no doubt in my mind at least, some campaigning by Holden teams.
I did not say that Ford knobbled their own cars, re-read my post.

As I recall, Larry stayed with the 304 longer than any other team, because he believed it to be superior to the Chev.
Perhaps someone can shed light on this???

Pleased to see you agree the XR8 bonnet should be allowed to run, this was my main issue to start with!!!
As I've said. if Holdens had developed some similar idea with their racecar, I'm sure the feelings would be the same with the Holden fans!!

Regarding your comments with Supercars heading down the Nascar road, I fully agree with you.
I don't wish to see the cars obtain any more similarity, even Blueprint is too much!!!!

As for the poaching of driver's, even Dick Johnsons' True Blue video makes the statement (not word for word, I just can't remember it!!), that the driver will generally abandon brand loyalty for the best car, best deal, and best money as he sees fit.

With Ford doing ehat they have done regarding the ex-Holden drivers they have upset people on both sides I suppose.

But it is the drivers who make up their own minds and no-one else.

I believe also that the Ford teams have some very talented engineers, it may be that the AU was just more difficult to work with than anyone ever expected......

For sure, Ford teams have a lack of Bathurst winning drivers, yes I can only think of one driver in a Ford at the moment, and that is John Bowe. I am sure though, that in the not too distant future with the help of Brad, he will be back there again...

Not to exclude the Stone Brothers and team either..
Remember they were the engineering brain behind two of DJR's Bathurst wins and also Jason and Steve in 1998!!!
(Jeez, that actually Ford's last 3 wins!!)

To finish off, regarding driver poaching, would it be too unreasonable to suggest that Jason Bright was in-directly *poached* by HRT from Ford???

I don't know the story, but you have to ask the question!!

Regards, Eddie.

[GRPIII]

XR8
i agree with your points, it is a shame to see how blueprint is destroying racing, yes the competition is stronger than ever, but it is in single class racing, which what v8's are these days.
yes there are no loyal drivers anywhere these days, holden young lions gave bargs his start, as with lowndes, & now the kelly bros, so only time will tell how loyal toddler & rick will be.
at the present time the only driver i think to be loyal is murph.
as for bright the hrt driver might have been the only drive avaiable for him at the time.

[mustang1966]

GRPIII, would you be happy to see the old Grp C days of racing. I remember watching the days of A9X Torana's, VC Commodores, XD, XE Falcons getting around the track. A fan could see the race car in the family hack, not a shell and headlights with no other common components.

To me those were the days of racing. I agree Blurprint is not what the sport should be about, It has come down to money and the so called "entertainment value"

People also have to remember on Jason Bright, he went from SBR to Indy lights in the USA. The Indy lights cost him a fair wack of dosh and he came back to Australia with a fair bit of debt I would say.

I am sure money was not his only factor in going to a team, a part of it for sure. I bet HRT offered him some good money and also the chance to drive in the premier race team was the other factor which made him go to the so called "dark side"

[the_goldie]

Hi Mark,

I agree about the Grp c days!!! Thats part of the reason I love collecting the older models...road car with a race livery and a few other little bits and pieces.

[mustang1966]

Cam,

Have you watched the Brutes? I got into it last year and love the racing. I know there were some changes made to the Falcon as far as cam shaft to keep up with the 350 Gen III. But the racing was close and the cars pretty much close spec to a road going ute.

The bits of biff and barge also added to the racing as well. That is something I miss in racing and one of the reasons I love the Fender Benders at the Speedway.

[the_goldie]

Hey Mark,

Yeah watched the brutes a bit... I remember the race at Bathurst from 2001 that was great!!!

(sorry off topic)
Talking about speedway... my friend is in the demo derby on Sunday Night @Parramatta, those sprint cars are good to watch as well.


Another one with Bonnets - if there is such a big uproar about the Fords new bonnet, was there one with the VLs?

[GRPIII]

GRP 3 those were the days, whilst i was only a little ankle bitter,
i still rememeber going to bathurst, oran & amaroo.
we should start a petishion to bring back THE BIG BANGERS.
cant wait for holden 1;18 relaese of grp c cars. the ford xe's look great even thou i dont collect the fords, as for the brutes, they have a little bit of parity, but want a class, expect for the stupid nicknames.

[brchi17]

I love watching those brutes too !!!

Did anyone see the replay of the Qld round last weekend on Speedweek - what a fantastic race !!!!!

I would have loved to have seen in project blueprint if the cars were made to run with production style rear wings & much wider tyres.

This would make the cars move around more & add to the specticle of the V8's with more passing & a reduced impact of the aerodynamic aids on either of the cars. What I can remember of Group C racing springs to mind (as others have previously mentioned) & it would really address the current fighting over bodykits on the race cars.

I know that some time ago, Larry Perkins shot this idea in the foot (stating that it would make the cars too unstable & dangerious), but I'm sure if it was done (reducing the areodymanic influence of wings on the cars) the drivers would adapt to the situation & the racing would be even closer (Ford could also stike it lucky for a rare win).

Anyway, I just hope the XR8 can keep it bonnet as it certaintly adds to the appearance of what will be a great looking race car.

cheers.:D

[mustang1966]

Cam,

I will be down there on Sunday night. My Mrs works at Parramatta city speedway so I go an watch when I am not working, or head down before a nightshift.

I only got into speedway since she started working down there and have found it a great way to get a fix on auto racing during the V8 off season.

A friend and I are thinking of buying a fender bender and giving it a try. Tell us who your mate is and we will give him a cheer on Sunday. I can't wait, it's great stuff.



Brchi,

Brutes are outstanding. I watched quite a few races last year on Optus and I thought the Phillip Island round was outstanding. It was great watching on the long main straight the Gen III Commodore catch the Falcon, only then to Have Luff in the Falc get him under brakes. These guys don't mind swaping paint and I think it adds to the racing.

Boys I am haning for the AGP and other racing this year. It's going to be great. :)

[mustang1966]

Cam,

I think the VL was different as it was Group A spec, not V8 supercar.

I could be wrong here but Grp A was not a parity spec as is V8 supercars. They just had to produce/sell so many cars before they could race them.

I am sure the Walkinshaw sales gave the VL the body kit it raced with.

GRPIII is this correct?

[GRPIII]

The homolgation rules for the grp a era were.
that 5000 base models a particluar vehicle had to sold, then a miniunm 500 modified cars made, that is why it took hsv so long to race the walkinshaw, no problems with the 5000 base cars, just with production of the 500.
anything you you had on the 500 grp a cars you could have on the race car,
like the sierra in england they are a dime a dozen, but there arent that many rs500 going round, same with godzilla.

[XR8]

If my brain-cells do not fail me, there were two major changes made to the VL Walkinshaw kit before it was approved for the street, and these were two changes that did not make their way onto the race car.
They were, the changing of the 6th window, or 'C' pillar panel from a solid piece, to that with a large window sized hole.
This was to allow better rear-ward vision, particularly from the sides.

The second change was a modification to the side skirts, so that the standard equipment jack could be used to change a flat tyre if need be.

There were no problems that I can remember, that prevented homolgation of the VL and it's body kit.

The VL Group A was one of the most outstanding looking Commodores to date of it's release, and I think that they still look good.

One in excellent condition will still command a considerable price.

My father, a mechanic, has one in his care, and it is still in very good condition. They do have somewhat of a reputation, and most deservedly, they were the only Australian racing car to carry the V8 engine through the turbo years.

It's just a shame that Ford backed out when they did!!

Ed :)

[SWRT]

The last touring car with bonnet buldge before the Barra was the VN SS Group a touring car.

[GRPIII]

Same rules applied for the vn as the vl.

[XR8]

An amendment to my last post of this thread.
Whilst cleaning out some of my old stuff at my parents place yesterday, I happened apon an old 1990-ish copy of Auto Action.

Regarding my previous comments on the VL Walkinshaw body kit, the two modifications I mentioned WERE in fact part of the homologated kit fitted to the race cars.

An even earlier copy of Car Australia Magazine had drawings of the car, and it was these details that I had mistaken.

My apologies to all!!!

Ed :)

[wombat]

The latest on the XR8 bonnet is that the Ford teams can run them, but only as long as the standard bonnet wil also fit.

That is, the Ford cannot make use of the space provided by the bulge. The aerodynamic advantage is ignored.

[brchi17]

At least now the car will look right !!!

It appears that some of the Ford teams were expirementing with a new air intake system to take advantage of the boluge, but now it appears that they may have wasted their time.

I wonder how many Barra's we'll see at the AGP ??

DJR will have 2
FPR will have 1 & 2 AU's
SBR should have 2 ready in time
00 believe they will have 2 but as for a sponsor no one knows !!
BJR will only have 1 ready in time but 2 for Adeliade

So about 6 to 8 new Barra's for the AGP.

I can't wait,
cheers.

[mustang1966]

I thought Briggs had 2 cars ready to go for the AGP as well.

[brchi17]

Oops,
I forgot about Briggs, Mustang.
I can remember them saying that they will have at least 1 perhaps 2 ready for the AGP.
better add them to the list as well.
AS for LMS, there's been no news for a while & I think Paul Wheel has changes sides so he won't have a Barra ready for the AGP.
cheers.