POP goes the diecast market?

[Goggles Pizanno]

Here is a quote from this months Collectormania newspaper.


"Another concern was that collectors were already becoming very fussy on the models that they were buying. With Biante releasing more models than the wallet can bear now, this new strain may cause some collectors to completely stop collecting models at all. I don't wish to see our little model world POP like the collectors cards did in the early '90s.''


Anythings possible but why stem the flow of new models when there is clear demand for them?

Any comments?

[perry]

I cant speak for everyone, only for myself...

I can no longer keep up with my collection, and ive decided if i cant have every car i want, i'll sell up half my collection or more and only buy very special cars. The amount i currently spend on diecast would finance a new CV8 Monaro or yet to be released GT Falcon.

I dont get enough time to spend hours looking at my collection, and my house is no longer big enough to house the cabinets required to display them.

The store i purchase from used to have 12 people that bought EVERY single binate model. I am the only one left now.

We used to see massive price increases on the second hand market after a new body shape was released (eg: XD XE XA), but not any longer. There are HTs and HGs on the second hand market for less than retail now. Look at the Brock VR as another example.

[zeitgeist]

Originally posted by Goggles Pizanno
"Another concern was that collectors were already becoming very fussy on the models that they were buying.

Perhaps 'focused' is more fitting than 'fussy'. Road cars. DJR. Moffat. Supercars. You name it. You can find a niche.


With Biante releasing more models than the wallet can bear now, this new strain may cause some collectors to completely stop collecting models at all.

My quandary is deciding whether to get newer colours of road cars as they are released.


I don't wish to see our little model world POP like the collectors cards did in the early '90s.''


Why did the bubble pop for collectors cards and comic books? Because everybody hermetically sealed 10 extra copies of whatever they bought and went to bed with dollars signs in their heads. Also, people just lost interest.

Now while I thinks cars will always be interesting to a number of people, there's hardly a person on this forum who couldn't offer for sale any car in their collection as 'mint' or 'near-mint' (depending on your definition). In my opinon, that's darn close to a bubble. Perry's observation regarding the prices recently-released models are fetching (or NOT fetching) is a telling tale.

Fortunately, for me, I don't care if it does 'pop'. I found a company that makes excellent examples of cars that I love. I'm certainly not planning on using these to fund/augment my retirement.

BC

[frosty]

Originally posted by zeitgeist

Fortunately, for me, I don't care if it does 'pop'. I found a company that makes excellent examples of cars that I love. I'm certainly not planning on using these to fund/augment my retirement.
BC
BC,

I agree wholeheartedly with your comment.

[jager]

Over the years the diecast market has continually gone Pop !

In the 1980's diecast colelctors were falling all over themselves buying Matchbox Models of Yesteryears and in some cases paying up to $ 400 for 'rare' examples. Eventually Matchbox got greedy, released too many models, didn't upgrade the quality and the market collapsed as collectors moved on to other brands. Most of those Yesteryears are now worth 1/4 of their asking prices in the 1980's.

To some exent the same thing happened with Trax. Many of the collectors who stopped colecting Matchbox started collecting Trax. As the first company to offer reasonable quality Aussie cars demand for thier products boomed. That was until Biante came along and the Trax market suffered irrepairable damage. Most of those Trax models that were worth big bucks several years ago are today worth a lot less than they used to be.

I think in recent times the market for Minichamps F1 cars has also declined as collectors become dissatisfied with the number of variations being produced and with declining interest in F1 generally.

The challenge for Biante collectors as I see it is just finding the physical space to store a large collection of 1:18 cars. If you take the number of cars released to date and extrapolate that forward for the next 10 years, its easy to see that even a modest a collection of Biante's will require an entire room and this factor alone will force collectors to rationalise their collections. Still, I don't think that factor alone will signal the death of Biante - Trevor's been around too long for that !

[Highlander]

The second hand market is somewhat saturated with SOLD and Ebay Flooded with cars for Sale,even the Wanted,Sell,Swap lists shows that items( For Sale )is the longest list.

I dont really think the bubbles burst ,they still seem to sell out quickly when there released . And it is probally unrealistic to expect to resell every model for a profit .After all it might be mint, but it is still second hand.

[Eliot Meadows]

I'm collecting B & T's 1/18 and other scale cars because they are excellent value for money and are Aussie classics whether modern or not so modern, I dont plan on selling any as i enjoy looking at all of them. My only concern is the accelerating production rate makes it difficult to buy all the cars i want, a rough guide as to how many cars have been produced per year is;
1998 - 5
1999 - 6
2000 - 23
2001 - 57
2002 - 87
2003 - 17 so far.
I know that not many people can afford to buy all cars produced, I certainly cant, and dont want to, but a few less cars per year than the currently ever increasing rate would make it easier on the wallet for most of us.
I am aware Admin, that you have a fine line to tread between the people who want all their dream cars now! and making enough to put more than bread and butter on your table, all I am pleading for is that you don't end up putting out 200 or so cars in a year.
The range of cars you have released so far is excellent and will probably be seen as THE definitive collection in 1/18 scale, I'm just being selfish because i dont want to miss out on the ones I really want due to there being too many released at one time.

Diecastaholic bigtime
Eliot

[Three_o_seven]

Two words ''TEN YEARS''.......we have models of Aussie cars with drivers that we can relate to, they arent distant no-names. I think complete collections.....i.e ''The Moffat Collection'' will be few and far between as people get restless with a flooded market and sell individual cars out to lower than anticipated prices.
Time and patience will reward us in the end as get rich quick schemes rarely pan out and some cars will be killed by kids...there will be lost certificates, boxes and damaged cars....drivers will pass in time and memorabilia will be gold.....these are great quality not trash, these cars will be worth a packet in years to come mark my words.

But then again who wants to sell these beauties once you have all the cars in a collection.....sentimentallity is worth more than dollars in some cases.

Jeremy

[Nick Short]

You hit the nail on the head, Three_o_seven! Diecast as a commodity is clearly having a slight downturn, but diecast as something desirable to genuine collectors is healthy as ever - as Highlander pointed out they sell quickly enough! The urge to have "one of everything" is something that can't be sustained if you collect current cars, be it V8 Supercars, F1, rally cars etc, as there are just too many. But one colour only for the road cars, or one race per season etc is feasible! Even with the older cars, where there is a limit of sorts to the numbers possible it can be expensive. I love the Falcon hardtop, but if I bought every XA, XB and XC, in every colour, road and race, I'd be living in a box (MIB, with straps and COA, offers over $500). I think if you love diecast collecting you'll carry on as best you can, one way or another....

[BATHURSTFAN]

Its like most things, the market will peak, drop and then stabilise. This market has been growing as more people become aware of the product.

Some people will drop out and others will come in.

I will never have a complete Johnson or Moffat collection because I only get the cars I like. I want a Ford collection of various racecars and road cars.

[brchi17]

I think that most of us would love to have a full list of Biante cars but I don't know too many people who have reasently won tatts, so we just need to be selective in our purchases.

I have purchased all of the DJR collection to date, not as an investment, but beacuse I have always been a DJR fan. Hense I do have a strong interest in Ford's as well but I try to keep my collecting within my budget.

For that reason, most of my collection is 1:43, which is a scale I can afford to collect. By focusing on 1:43, it allows me to get all of the V8 Falcon race cars & also to get one version of each model of road going Falcon (admin may be the only person who does not like reading this). By doing this it allows me to keep a collection I can afford & enjoy. For as when I have to get a 2nd job to support my hobby (habbit, adiction) it just isn't any fun anymore - time to give it away !!!!. :(

I think for that reason, I try to be very particular about my 1:18 purchases as for the shear expense & size of these vehicles. I've spend silly prices on a few classic DJR models & sure I'm happy i've got them, but I could have bought quite a few models with the spare money had I kept to my initial rule of not paying high prices for models.

So basically, what I'm trying to say is regardless of the current percieved state of the diecast market, I think we need to have some sort of idea in which we want in our collection. Rather than just the I buy everything mentality. Sure if you can afford to buy every Biante model, then good luck to you. But I'm sure the rest of us just need to think about our purchases & use this forum to help us plan our purchases, as it is the best form of information we have regarding the Biante product.

cheers.:D

[KiwiRallyFan]

I agree with you BathurstFan, the Aussie Diecast market probably will peak, drop, then stabilise over time.
The items that may hold their value most (over time) could be things like the Moffat 77 plaque.
These items are unique, and are likely to also appeal to collectors outside the diecast market, like race-fans who aren't into model cars.

[admin]

I think that maybe Collectormania had a shortage of things to write about in this issue.
If Biante is "releasing more models than the wallet can bear" then there is no hope for all the other brands.
In my stores, Biante branded product would represent 5% of the models on display, and looking at other shops, the same thing applies.
Even if we put out 200 models a year, in all scales, that is 4 per week.
Take all the other brands....most have more than 4 new models per week and in some cases it averages 10 per week. I know as we are the distributors for a few of them.
I dont care if the Sold.com or ebay markets are dropping..I dont make models to sell on them.
And where Matchbox fell in a hole was to keep releasing irrelevant models with the emphasis on 'irrelevant'. The market for Matchbox is still very strong....for models made of 'real' cars and the releases put out over the first 25 years. When it passed out of the hands of collectors (Smith and Odell), the later models of things like Cadillac convertibles with Coca-Cola signs on them...well, enough said.
I would dearly love to list every release for the next 12 months, but commercial sense dictates I can't.
But say we do 60 of the 1:18ths this year (so far it is six or 3 per month). These will be made up of current race cars, Moffat, Brock, Johnson, Morris, Goss, Bond, Gibson etc collections, Classic road cars and commercials and modern road cars and commercials.
IF someone wants to collect them all, it would be $173.00 per week. Most will only want 30% to 50% of the releases and that would be between $50.00 and $87.50 a week. Some will only want a "collection" model and that would be 4-5 cars a year at most or $16.00 a week.
I think the problem lies with us all...this country is unique, it has a range of unique cars and has some of the best drivers ever to set foot into a race car. Models of other countries cars and famous drivers have been made for 50 years..we have a lot of catching up to do.
I will be doing it as responsibly and as spread out as is possible, but we also need to be aware that our cars are a small % of the world market and here is the only place we can sell sufficient quantities to justify the expense of doing them in the first place.
If you want a cross section of Aussie cars, let us decide what we make ...and buy what you want.
If the demand slacks off for any segment or scale, we will make adjustments to the supply.
Promotion of Australian models by the "press' would be beneficial to all of the Aussie car modellers, but I suppose doom and gloom sells better than good news or facts.

[WESTY]

I think it all comes down to what you want in your collection.
as people have stated you cant buy them all,

unless your loaded ?

For me a few years ago l deceided that l had to choose what l would collect based on you cant afford them all.
I chose race cars not just Aussie V8's any race cars that apeal to me,and l choose carefully eg: l didnt get the latest Dick Johnson XE Falcon because l have the first one and they look
to much the same, but l have all the other DJR cars from his collection, same with HDT cars paint jobs are so close to each other over the past few years l only have 1 skaife car.
Mabee with the new paint scheme for this year l now might get another one??
You can see what im getting at if the cars are pretty much the same bar a few decals and minor paint work l dont get it.
it keeps my collection all different in terms of paint jobs and car types to a point.

anyway thats what l do and it still keeps me broke.

:D

[7Litre]

Just like Stocks and Shares and even Real Estate they all have their ups and downs, so it's a matter of choosing models that you may think that may rise in value quickly or others that will mature in value slowly. But if you collecting Diecast for the pure of Australian Motoring (Like Myself) then why worry the true value is in the 'Eye of the Collector'. Even if you make a $200 on a Model in about 5 years dont get upset , just remember there wasn't any onroad costs ie: Rego or Services.
But it good see the people fall when they just Buy to Sell.

So in the end collect for your own pleasure not for someone else's opinion.

Regards 7Litre...

[Eliot Meadows]

My interest in cars doesn't go very far beyond the classic Holden and Ford range which is why the B & T range is SO GOOD. I am not interested in Humbers or Jags or Pontiacs or Subaru's etc but i do love to have miniature versions of the cars that were made in Australia and that i grew up with. Fond memories of XA XB XC coupes and GTR torana's and A9X torana's and the HQ to HZ range of two and four door GTS's etcetera.
Very few classics are to be seen on the roads now so what better way to enjoy the past than to have miniature versions on display in my own house. ALL of my diecast cars are in cabinets on display and not tucked away in a cupboard somewhere awaiting a good sell price. I dont care what the second hand market is doing because i buy the cars to look at, not as an investment.
Unfortunately there are a number of so called "collectors" out there who see diecast cars as a way to make lots of money by buying big stocks and then selling them to genuine collectors who missed out at massive markups.
That is the reason why i am so keen to be able to buy what i want when it comes out and not have to wait for later and pay heaps extra.
I'm sure there will come a time when the cars being released dont appeal to me as much as the cars i have now, Camry Sportivo anyone, but until then i will always be interested in adding to my collection of unique OZ high performance cars.

[the_goldie]

Main Entry: col·lec·tion
Pronunciation: k&-'lek-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : the act or process of collecting
2 a : something collected; especially : an accumulation of objects gathered for study, comparison, or exhibition or as a hobby b : GROUP, AGGREGATE c : a set of apparel designed for sale usually in a particular season

source: http://www.m-w.com/home.htm

A collection can only be as complete as you the collector wishes. If you want to collect every model released then lucky you, but as many others have said they only collect the models that appeal to them or have fond memories of and or can afford :D

For 2003 I have purchased the following models:
Mark Skaife 1999 MHRT VT Commodore $142.50
Mark Skaife 2002 HRT VX Commodore $49.95
Greg Murphy 2002 Kmart VX Commodore $49.95
Marcos Ambrose 2002 Pirtek AU Falcon $36.95
Dick Johnson 'Through The Trees' 1983 Falcon XE (Bathurst) $176.00
Skaife/Richards Holden VX Commodore 2002 Bathurst Winner $176.00

Already this is at a total of: $631.35 which nearly blew me away. I didn't think I had spent that much so far, but it shows it doesn't take long for it all to add up. I also have another 4 cars down that I want to get when released so there is another $696.00 but hopefully that will be all for the year cause that is $100/month which is only $25/week, but I am sure there will be the odd 1 or 2 that BIANTE release that will be a must have for my 'collection' that I do not know of yet.

[Malik]

I knew from day one that I would never be able to afford all the cars I would want for a collection and still be able to pay off my real car and rent and buy food and...... well.. the list goes on..

So right from the start my collecting list was limited to mainly cars revolving around HRT with the odd add in depending on if I like the cars or not.. so far I have each years car from 1999-2002 of the HRT racing.. mainly the No.1 car regardless of driver (Lowndes or Skaife) I have some of them in 1:18 and 1:43... I have 2 Brock cars in 1:64 scale.. the red Baird car and the Black Bathurst car... I have the red Baird car in 1:18 from Biante.. the only road cars I have is a silver GTO and the red R8 Clubsport.. soon to add a black GTS when I get it off layby... and the CC 1:43 scale VU ute

the only non biante model I have is the CC 1:18 scale Ingall car cos I love the detail they have put into it...

so my collection is fairly biased towards Holden and HRT in particular.. hell.. at the moment I am starting to be pushing it on affording those cars let alone more.. like the 2003 kmart car when it comes out considering the picture looks great and I think it will be an amazing model when done.

I would have the 1:18 2002 bathurst car if/when Great Trains ever get it in for me....

[brchi17]

I wonder whether Biante / Autoart will make Holden's newest hit, the SV8 Commodore ???

Gee I hope they do, as if they (the models) sell like the road car has been then this percieved downturn will dramatically turn around !!!! :D

While you thinking about it admin, could I please have a 1:18 Red Hot SV8, with pwr windows & the HBD leather sports steering wheel & alloy peddles. As a model of my much anticipated road car would be the 'the bees knees'

cheers.

[zeitgeist]

Originally posted by brchi17
While you thinking about it admin, could I please have a 1:18 Red Hot SV8, with pwr windows & the HBD leather sports steering wheel & alloy pedals.


I don't know, brchi17. Those sound like 'gimmicks' to me! :D

BC

[Malik]

could I please have a 1:18 Red Hot SV8, with pwr windows

little AAA size battery that clips inside the boot or a scale size real car battery to run them power windows? just dont let it go flat cos yer not jumpstarting it from my car.....:p

[brchi17]

to malik,
since when has windows been a gimmicks ????:D

I suppose I walked into that one !!!

I didn't want them to work, I just didn't want to see window winders on the doors.

cheers :D

[Esses]

Wow, & I thought I was just collecting little model cars because either: I liked them; they represent good memories; or I always wanted an XU-1 but will probably never have one.
Most of the above posts just re-inforce why I only collect 1/43, & only buy ONE Ford & ONE Holden from each year, in a different colour scheme/driver/team etc. Plus filling out the collection from yesteryear, eg: a Trax Bathurst '63 EH Holden is definitely on my list. But first I have to buy some more shelves!

[V8SS]

Just looked on ebay and there are currently bids of $135-00 for the VT Police car and $143-00 for the Silver Walkinshaw. These models are both still available from Biante for $120-00 + GST (if you live in Aussie). They obviously haven't discovered this wonderful website. The seller must be laughing.

[Odin]

You can get good buys on ebay. Recently on ebay I bought:

All 1:18 scale

1997 VS brock/mezera commodore 127.50
1999 VT MHRT skaife commodore 115.00
2002 VX Brocks bathurst car 142.50

all without postage so add about 15$ on to each

So you just need to be careful when bidding thats all. Needless to say the prices on here aren't too shabby either.

[oneeighteen]

For those of you who may be seeking that elusive model and may be willing to spend a little more to secure that missing item in your collection, there is a model shop in Melbourne that have some on consignment. Just check these out

Dick Johnson's Brian Byrt ford $850.00, Mofatt's #1D, $550.00, Skaife/Morris and Lowndes/McConville $350.00 each, Purple XY GTHO $350.00.

Could not recall all the prices on other cars in the cabinet, but suffice to say they were mind blowing. Based on these values my collection is worth considerably more that I first thought!

[Monaro_Mad]

I feel this is just a slump in the market, I have seen this happen to Trax from time to time and then all of a sudden some new collectors pop up and drive values up again. However, Trax models will never reach some of the prices they once had due to allot more competition and much better quality available now.

People are more than likely broke after all the recent releases and not just from Biante. And with things the way they are in Iraq maybe people are a little uncertain with their cash.

It is true that there is a flood of Diecast these days, much more than a few years ago and I for one just cannot keep up financially. This has caused me to stop collecting nearly everything, and just purchase personal favourites.

I believe allot of people jumped in to make money off Diecast after seeing some models jump 200-300 percent in value and are now stuck with models that they can't even sell for release price. These people are now slowly disappearing as they get more disappointed. I reckon this is a good thing for diecast anyway. Maybe we wont have to worry about securing that new release for the collection.

One of my excuses (I had to use many) to the missus for buying Diecast (mostly Trax back then) was that I could always get back what I payed if I ever needed to sell up. That may not be the case at the moment but I wont tell her that. (Glad she doesn't read this forum)

I have been trying to sell some of my collection recently to fund some new billet wheels for my 1:1 HT Monaro. But nobody seems to be interested. Even with sweeteners like 5% below release price and discounts for multiple purchases. I have listed them everywhere, papers, auction sites, buy/sell lists, etc... Had a few enquiries but not one sale as of yet!

Looks like I will just have to wait for those wheels :( Not much fun cruising in Winter anyway.

But on the flipside, it has created a unique buyers market. There are excellent bargains to be had as impatient sellers are lowering their prices in a last resort to make money.

So I guess only time will tell, I cannot see the market staying the way it is forever.

[zeitgeist]

Originally posted by Monaro_Mad
I feel this is just a slump in the market .... all of a sudden some new collectors pop up and drive values up again.

It is true that there is a flood of Diecast these days, ....This has caused me to stop collecting nearly everything, and just purchase personal favourites.


There HAS to be new blood. For instance, I only have two more models of interest to me that I did not catch at release time. After that, I probably won't even consider existing releases as future purchases, unless the prices were sufficiently low.

I believe allot of people jumped in to make money off Diecast ...and are now stuck with models that they can't even sell for release price.


You live by the DJR Sierra, you die by something else.

Also, and I might take some heat for this, I think anyone who says they buy extras for 'trading purposes' are of the same mind as those who buy extras in hopes of a large cash payout. Does one really buy an extra model, planning to trade it later at its release value? Ha!

I'm not saying it's immoral or anything, but it doesn't occupy any HIGHER moral ground than the other intention and, therefore, those that get burned brook no sympathy from me.


Looks like I will just have to wait for those wheels :( Not much fun cruising in Winter anyway.


Better than cruising in OUR winter. I think we hit a balmy 1C today! :)

BC

[Conrod]

i think the slump is not here, its just that we all ask and ask for different cars and for more of them(i do it all the time, im human and love my passion) and biante has listened and produced the goods. i do believe there is young blood out there but maybe advertising might fix the problem. trax became a common name as i grew up, not because i bought them (too young and stupid spending on footy cards)but remember the adverts in magazines such as the NRMA open road and sundays paper etc. many of my friends fathers bought these cars not because they loved collecting but because it brought back memories of their childhood family hack etc or made great presents for the person who has everything. i mean im dont think im that old but i remember a time long ago when i collected bburagos and didn't know biante existed and only by chance on the internet i stumbled across the skyline gtr. it was then when i saw the quality that the bug bit. nothings changed and 130 various models later (alot biante)well yeah, nothings changed. im a young architect and trust me the wages are crap, boarderline poverty when you start off but i believe in lay-by and think with my head and not with $$$$. it is only then that the prices will stay low. remember that especially you so called collecters when you sell your cars and all want ridiculous top dollar. we all just add to the vicious circle if we behave like the w*nkers who buy 5 models and sell them @ triple price. its simple economics, dont buy inflated prices on auctions/shops and the prices will go down eventually!