Running out of space

[Ghost Rider]

Hi All
I'm running out of room fast :( Do you think i be pushing my luck if i put 5 cars per shelf in the large cabinets and 4 cars per shelf in the small cabinet the shelfs are only 5MM thick:mad:dont want any disasters.I can fit about 5 more cars but got about 12 on order
Thanks.

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/12GhostRid er/cars004-1.jpg

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/12GhostRid er/cars006-1.jpg

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/12GhostRid er/001-4.jpg

[fatty]

I personally wouldn't put 5 cars on a shelf less than 8mm which is the thickness of my shelves.

[pitcrew]

Me personatly wouldn't put anymore on there.

I have 6 cars on a shelf at the moment using 8mm glass.

JMHO

Cheers

[edy]

Buy a large shop fitting cabinet.

Be careful and dont overload as you dont want them to come crashing down on you!

I recall years ago someone had a picture of a cabinet that collapsed!

[ratster70]

Absolutely NOT with the setup you have with only support pins in each corner and nothing supporting the middle and only 5mm glass you are only asking for trouble big time ;)

[Ghost Rider]

Thanks guys I had a feeling it might be too much weight haven't got much room for any more cabinets have to convince the better half to get rid of some of the other furniture too make room don't like my chances.

[ratster70]

Thanks guys I had a feeling it might be too much weight haven't got much room for any more cabinets have to convince the better half to get rid of some of the other furniture too make room don't like my chances.


Sell the cabinets you have and get bigger cabinets with more shelf supports and thicker glass ;) easier arguement than "dear can we get rid of your furniture" lol

[Ghost Rider]

I might have a look around these cabinets are good no dust gets in at all never had too dust the cars in 3 years.

[Damage]

I might have a look around these cabinets are good no dust gets in at all never had too dust the cars in 3 years.

Just take one shelf into a glass mob and get extras made to go in between. You have plenty of room between shelves and you will nearly double the capacity. Easy! Damage saves the day! Plus, those cabinets are neat with the curved front, I like them a lot. It might cost a bit for a glazier to do curves but overall I reckon its the most practical and economical solution.

Having said that though, I did it and I'm still out of room lol.

[ratster70]

Just take one shelf into a glass mob and get extras made to go in between. You have plenty of room between shelves and you will nearly double the capacity. Easy! Damage saves the day! Plus, those cabinets are neat with the curved front, I like them a lot. It might cost a bit for a glazier to do curves but overall I reckon its the most practical and economical solution.

Having said that though, I did it and I'm still out of room lol.


So really problem not solved cause as we all know you never have enough room LOL:p but i like your way of thinking there mate extra shelves is the cheaper way to go;)

OMG i agreed with Dion bwahahahahahahaha

[Damage]

You agree with me all the time John, you're just too proud to admit it. By my calculations he should be able to fit 16-20 more into each of the big cabinets which should do him for a while. Even if cost is a concern, he could go for ones without the curve and you'd hardly notice.

[Road Runner 72]

I got extra shelves made up in my billy cabinets. best way to go.

[Ghost Rider]

I already been to 3 glass shops two of them said it was to hard to cut the curved front,they look like they didn't know there work and the third shop want $156 per shelf to cut I thought that was a bit expensive but I might not have a choice unless I can fit another cabinet somewhere.

[Damage]

Get them done without the curves, I don't reckon you will notice, it's pretty slight.

[Ghost Rider]

I might try one straight one see what it looks like there is a good size curve on them the photos don't really show the curves that well there would be close to a 3 inch gap in the middle to a straight shelve

[Damage]

Hmmm, just measured mine and it's 6mm, with 6 cars per shelf over a 900mm span.

[Ghost Rider]

So your really at the max then only 1MM thicker two more cars per shelve.

[ratster70]

I have 10 cars on my shelves at present 6mm thick and approx 1400mm long but i also have several support points through the middle ;):D

[grease]

Buy a large shop fitting cabinet.

Be careful and dont overload as you dont want them to come crashing down on you!

I recall years ago someone had a picture of a cabinet that collapsed!

Is it this pic you are talking about?

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8894/tnzcrash3. jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/tnzcrash3.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[edy]

Is it this pic you are talking about?

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8894/tnzcrash3. jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/tnzcrash3.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Yes - that is the picture.

A timely reminder to all to be careful and not be greedy in over filling your cabinets ;)

[ratster70]

Yep thats the one OUCHY :(

[Kashmir]

Not a good sight at all:(:(

[Damage]

I remember that now. Horrific. Do you recall how thick and how many per shelf?

[8hype]

oh my.that is the first time i have seen that pic.shattering

[grease]

No, no info sorry, it was on here so my guess is do a search or something, that is all I can suggest.

[Boogs]

I would be hysterical if that happened to me.. :(

[Damage]

No, no info sorry, it was on here so my guess is do a search or something, that is all I can suggest.

Might have to. That was a couple of years ago now. IIRC the member just heard a crash in the night and got up to find that.

EDIT: Found original thread after a search. http://forums.biante.com.au/showthread.php?t=8224

[grease]

I was looking but never thought of doing a search for tonynz.

[Damage]

Tony's were 1465mm X 240mm 5mm thick

So mine are 20% thicker and 33% shorter. Definately made me double check everything just like I did when I first saw that. What a gut churning sight. Should prompt everybody to have a rethink anyway.

[sleepy]

I have 8 cars on 6mm shelves spanned over 950mm been like it for years. As the cars are spread over the entire area, the area that would most likely break would be at the ends where the shelves are supported. most shelves use the pins that fit into drilled holes mine are supported on small wooden supports 20x20 x300 long which are screwed to the sides of the cabinet as the sides are wooden. Some cabinets i have looked at are a bit dodgy looking around the area where the pins are, holes not a snug fit etc. I would guess the cabinet in the pics failed in this area or a model may have been dropped in the centre of the glass causing the failure. The actual weight at the centre of the shelves would be less than the weight at the point where the shelves are actually supported so this is the critical part to look out for.

[Damage]

Interesting, I would imagine the part with the most load/stress would be the middle ie the part furthest away from the supports. Any engineers on here?

That would be doot to door with 8 models over 950mm wouldnt it?

[rayman]

Interesting, I would imagine the part with the most load/stress would be the middle ie the part furthest away from the supports. Any engineers on here?

That would be doot to door with 8 models over 950mm wouldnt it?
Here. http://www.store.novadisplay.com/Products/Shelves_ PROD/SPECS/Glass_Loads.PDF
You work it out, I couldn't be buggered.

[Damage]

Roughly 5 PSI with just under a metre between supports for 6mm glass. I think I'm safe, good table though, well done.

[sleepy]

according to that by my reckoning using 6 mm glass comes to around 33kg per sq foot and i think it goes without saying that the 33kg per sq foot would have to be concentrated on the ends where the shelves are fixed.

[Damage]

according to that by my reckoning using 6 mm glass comes to around 33kg per sq foot and i think it goes without saying that the 33kg per sq foot would have to be concentrated on the ends where the shelves are fixed.

Then why do those Karate dudes hit the blocks in the middle? :D

[rayman]

When we move glass at work, it always has to be supported in the middle so it does not sag in the middle and break. Does that help putting it into perspective?

[sleepy]

Then why do those Karate dudes hit the blocks in the middle? :DBecause that is the weakest point when weight is only applied in the centre and they also have bricks under the ends you dont see them trying to smash blocks by applying pressure right across what they are trying to break.

[sleepy]

When we move glass at work, it always has to be supported in the middle so it does not sag in the middle and break. Does that help putting it into perspective?Iwould imagine the glass would be more than a metre long?

[rayman]

Iwould imagine the glass would be more than a metre long?
Yes alot of the time, but not always. I see your point about the pins giving way before the glass if they are not adequate enough to support the weight. Although if the glass was not thick enough and it did sag enough to move past the load point of the pins then the lot would go anyway.

[grease]

Roughly 5 PSI with just under a metre between supports for 6mm glass. I think I'm safe, good table though, well done.

If you look it is feet not inches so just be aware.

[SDK]

Is it this pic you are talking about?

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8894/tnzcrash3. jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/tnzcrash3.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Struth. My worst fear.

And he got them all away on ebay & started again.

[grease]

With a shelf 900*300*6mm it roughly works out to 13.5kg per shelf, this could be wrong but this is just quick and Im no engineer just a mechanic so Im probably wrong.

[rex555]

The maximum bending moment is in the middle so that is where it will fail if the shelf is evenly loaded or loaded more in the centre.

[Damage]

On that table, load is in punds per sq. ft. (not PSI like I said) and the legnth is in feet. I just said that 900mm is just under 3 feet. 6mm is just under ¼" yes?

And I will have to politely disagree with your reasoning behind the weak point of the glass sleepy. I reckon the middle would take less load than one supported end before failure.

[grease]

Damage I did not know if it was a typo or comparing apples with oranges.

according to that by my reckoning using 6 mm glass comes to around 33kg per sq foot and i think it goes without saying that the 33kg per sq foot would have to be concentrated on the ends where the shelves are fixed.

So you are saying if you have have a cabinet with glass shelves just over 3ft long and 1 " wide you can put 100kg on it, I'm no engineer but I dont think that will look to good, 5 shelves 500kg plus at least 100kg on the base and then you have the weight of the cabinet itself and you era looking at something like 3/4 of a ton in weight and then you might start looking at other problems.

[Damage]

No worries Grease, my oversight. I was just trying to convert old money into new. Despite being a relative oldy myself, I hate the imperial units of measure. God, I hate looking at that pic up there...

[grease]

I dont mind as most of them are Holden.lol I would hate it to happen again to anybody.

[Ghost Rider]

Last night I took the cars of the bottom shelve and put 5 cars on the shelf above checked it out before work today and i could notice a sag in the middle so that made my mine up straight away 4 cars max per shelve and new cabinet coming no more 5mm shelves for me 8mm be the best way to go i think or wooden shelves.I wonder if some shelves have stronger glass in them mine looks weak.

[tonynz]

I had 9 cars on each glass shelve. The problem was that the shelves had no support in the middle only small book case type supports in each corner and in the middle at the back, the glass flexed and then came the big crash.
Now I have 3 full width brackets holding the thicker glass.
If I had, had the 3 brackets to start with it would have been all OK.

[ratster70]

I had 9 cars on each glass shelve. The problem was that the shelves had no support in the middle only small book case type supports in each corner and in the middle at the back, the glass flexed and then came the big crash.
Now I have 3 full width brackets holding the thicker glass.
If I had, had the 3 brackets to start with it would have been all OK.


Thats the point i keep trying to make doesnt matter on glass thickness and supports you have on end if the glass is to wide with weight on it and no support in the middle it will let go eventually glass isnt designed to carry weight without support;)

[Damage]

Tony, roughly how long were the models there before it all went FUBAR?

[tonynz]

Yes alot of the time, but not always. I see your point about the pins giving way before the glass if they are not adequate enough to support the weight. Although if the glass was not thick enough and it did sag enough to move past the load point of the pins then the lot would go anyway.

This is what I believe happened to mine the glass sagged in the middle, thus pulling them away from the pins, the glass only broke when it hit the shelve below.

[tonynz]

About 2-3 weeks I think.

[fatty]

I got extra shelves made up in my billy cabinets. best way to go.Are you finding that the depth is too narrow for longer cars like effijy, Sandman concept etc...? Im dreading trying to fit the Biante HX, HZ's when they arrive.

[Road Runner 72]

Are you finding that the depth is too narrow for longer cars like effijy, Sandman concept etc...? Im dreading trying to fit the Biante HX, HZ's when they arrive.

Yeah but then I just angle them, as its all one can do, see the collection photos thread as posted a few photos in there.

[HSV-XU6]

I have glass shelves that are 5mm thick, 83cm long by 30cm with 7 1:18 cars on each shelf and they are fine. Cars have been displayed on these shelves for nearly 2 years.

[sleepy]

This is what I believe happened to mine the glass sagged in the middle, thus pulling them away from the pins, the glass only broke when it hit the shelve below.This was the point i was trying to make using that chart 6mm glass shelves should easily hold 8 or 9 models but there will be a lot of stress around the ends and thats where you could get problems. The 33kg perfoot was worked off that chart, damage came up with 5 pounds per sq inch which without working it out would be close to 33kg per sq foot with these figures it is obvious that the glass should easily hold models but if not fitted to pins properly thats where problems could develop.

[grease]

This was the point i was trying to make using that chart 6mm glass shelves should easily hold 8 or 9 models but there will be a lot of stress around the ends and thats where you could get problems. The 33kg perfoot was worked off that chart, damage came up with 5 pounds per sq inch which without working it out would be close to 33kg per sq foot with these figures it is obvious that the glass should easily hold models but if not fitted to pins properly thats where problems could develop.

Did you read my post about this 33kg per square foot, this works out to be roughly 100kg per 950mm shelf.

[Formula]

Glazier tuning in.

Please take into consideration the following:
Tempered glass vs non tempered glass vs laminated glass. And where it's been imported from.

Tempered glass should not break from weight being applied. It should have no problem withstanding being hit with a rubber mallet. However, hit the edge of the glass even slightly with something solid and course and it shatters completely. Same glass is usually used in showers. When it shatters you are left with a lot of tiny little bits of glass with minimal sharp edges. Identified by an acid stamp in the corner (in 98% of cases). Also the edge will look rounded and frosty (sometimes polished if it's good craftsmanship).

Non tempered glass is the standard stuff used in cabinets. Breaks and cracks easily. When it breaks you are left with big long shards. Identified by being one sheet and not having an acid stamp. Can also have frosty edges or polished edges if the craftsman is up for the work (not usually).

Laminated glass is two pieces of glass with a film in between holding it together. It cracks like normal glass, however stays in one piece because of the film. Think car windscreens. Identified by weight, also looking at the side you will see two seperate bits of glass with a thin line in between. Can also have frosty edges or polished edges but it is harder to achieve, you should still see the film in between if they've put in the extra work (again, not usually).

Of the three, toughened glass would be best for displaying model cars on. It wont break under weight, but will sag. Laminated glass as a second choice, but it can still break in half, though I doubt the weight of model cars would be enough to do it. Regular glass is absolute rubbish. Most cabinets contain the really cheap imported stuff too, which is extremely delicate.

[Damage]

This was the point i was trying to make using that chart 6mm glass shelves should easily hold 8 or 9 models but there will be a lot of stress around the ends and thats where you could get problems. The 33kg perfoot was worked off that chart, damage came up with 5 pounds per sq inch which without working it out would be close to 33kg per sq foot with these figures it is obvious that the glass should easily hold models but if not fitted to pins properly thats where problems could develop.

I had the wrong brain in last night, so apologies to everyone. IIRC it was 5lbs per sq. ft. not 5 PSI. It's those Americans with thier Imperial measures, that's my excuse anyway. Thanks for the info Formula, I was waiting for somebody who knew more about that clear flat stuff.

[rex555]

Just to complicate things even more (did you know that Engineers are the only profession that can have their estates sued after death?), you then have the point loads on the supporting pins to take into account. No point having a sheet of glass that will support 1000kgs of weight if either A) the pins will pull out of the cabinet at that weight, they are usually only pushed in after all or B) the point load from the weight causes the glass to shatter at the pins cos it is concentrated at one very small point but not causing the bending moment in the middle of the sheet to cause the glass to give way.

[grease]

Also dont forget the holes (About 5mm) in the support structure, will they fail?

[Ghost Rider]

I was talking too one of our trucks drivers lived in newcastle, had a glass cabinet for 10 years with models that he made, if your older enough you remember the newcastle eartquake did not hold up all the shelves gave way ,maybe good not to load it to the max.you never know whats around the corner

[tonynz]

Here are how my shelves sre supported now, with 3 of them the glass is well supported.
You could stack bricks and the won't break, I am sure you would get to a point where the weight would be too much for the brackets.

Tony

[fatty]

Yeah but then I just angle them, as its all one can do, see the collection photos thread as posted a few photos in there.
I do that but I am running out of room in 3 cabinets and have to display them vertically 5 to a shelf.

[david5]

I'm not going to use glass in my next cabinet. It will be all melamine, with glass doors. I figured I never get down & look up at the bottoms of the cars, so why bother. The white will reflect the natural light better too.

[FastRedCars]

Also dont forget the holes (About 5mm) in the support structure, will they fail?

Probably not, I would think. I have book-cases with just the 4 pins and timber shelves, and they are chock a block full of books (much heavier than Model Cars), and the pins have held the weight for years. The pins and the pin holes are fine.

[tonynz]

Don't use pins you never know

[monarocveightz]

I'm not going to use glass in my next cabinet. It will be all melamine, with glass doors. I figured I never get down & look up at the bottoms of the cars, so why bother. The white will reflect the natural light better too.

Ditto.....3 out of my 4 cabinets have timber shelves......glass looks very nice, but I'd rather have the extra strength...

[sleepy]

Oops looks like i read the chart wrong it is a bit blurry on my comp yes it should be 5 pounds per sq foot over a span of 3 feet for the 6 mm glass i was working on the measurement over 1 foot sorry for any confusion..which would i think be around 6.8 kilos for the whole shelf.

[grease]

Don't use pins you never know

Thank you tonynz I would not trust them for the reasons that are below;
Slight fracture in materials
Only small area of contact for shelf to rest on
Hole size into support structure, weakens surrounding area
of some support structures.
I think I might stick to wood except for the doors on the small cabinet I build.

[Ghost Rider]

Hi All
I'm running out of room fast :( Do you think i be pushing my luck if i put 5 cars per shelf in the large cabinets and 4 cars per shelf in the small cabinet the shelfs are only 5MM thick:mad:dont want any disasters.I can fit about 5 more cars but got about 12 on order
Thanks.

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/12GhostRid er/cars004-1.jpg

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/12GhostRid er/cars006-1.jpg

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/12GhostRid er/001-4.jpg
Finally got my new cabinets today waiting 4 months for them they were worth waiting for only $400 each with 8mm shelves

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/12GhostRid er/007.jpg?t=1291883047

[HRT1]

ive got those exact cabinets... i stored extra shelves in mine but went to a glazier & got 6mm toughened glass... 3 extra shelves in each display unit. Both mine are completely full now & im a tad worried i might of overstocked a couple of shelves after seeing those photos cos the pins are a little flimsy

[Ghost Rider]

ive got those exact cabinets... i stored extra shelves in mine but went to a glazier & got 6mm toughened glass... 3 extra shelves in each display unit. Both mine are completely full now & im a tad worried i might of overstocked a couple of shelves after seeing those photos cos the pins are a little flimsy

HRT1 how many cars do you put on each shelve I was going too try 5 even 6 cars per shelve they are steel pins so I think it should hold I hope :confused:

[rex555]

ive got those exact cabinets...

Where did you guys get them from? The look great. Exactly what I need.

[Buffalo]

Where did you guys get them from? The look great. Exactly what I need.

Me too - I need about 5 of them !!

[<Jonboy>]

if they are the same, furniture place at McGrath's Hill in Sydney. I had an eyeball of them on display in the shop and they haven't been made very well, tapered edges on the vertical glass which makes it wobble too much. Wasn't impressed for the $$

[HRT1]

Yeh in mcgraths hill. They're on eBay. They do have slight faults etc but they are fine considering they're only $400... Elsewhere u can't get a cabinet for less than $900 from what I've found.

I store 6 cars per shelf but on 2 shelves I have 7 cars which just looks way too crammed, never mind loading the shelves up. I need another cabinet but I have no room for it yet...

The shelves hold 6 cars quite easily, and I put some padding on each of the pins just to soften the impact area on the glass... Will take pics of them later today and post

[HRT1]

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/tristo_13/ PC100026.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/tristo_13/ PC100025.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/tristo_13/ PC100024.jpg

[Ghost Rider]

That looks great HRT1 6 per shelve look great ,I got mine from there as well good value for the money.

if anyone wants some of these cabinets you can order extra shelves for $40 each from them it cost $80 for delivery don't matter how many you buy 1 or 5 cabinets same price for delivery the only faults I have is one door is a bit tight and the pins were a bit hard too get in , had too tap them in with a hammer
they have a show room InStyle Furniture 6-8 wingate Rd McGraths Hill

[HRT1]

i picked mine up.... although it is SO far away but i find 6 per shelf is the way to go.

great value cabinets, some are built a bit shoddy but they more than do the job

[Maq]

What is the width of the glass shelf bud?

[HRT1]

width is approx 950mm for cabinet.

830mm for glass shelves

[HRT-222]

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/tristo_13/ PC100024.jpg

That looks great HRT1, would love to have all those HRT cars in my collection and the Bundy Cars :D

Cheers Josh

[HRT1]

Still missing a few... Gotta search the 2nd hand market eventually, the other bundy car (Reynolds 09) is in the other cabinet