Ford AV GTHO V8 Supercar and their Drivers

[drof]

With all the talk about the new AV Ford and in my belief and hope the AV GTHO that the Ford teams will finally get their acts together and win races/rounds/championnships and Bathurst. I am and always have been a die hard Ford Fan but I am sick of all the excuses from the Ford teams of why they are'nt winning races. When the AU was launched I remember Dick Johnson saying that it had the potential to be the best race car ever, sorry Dick the only thing the AU could win is a Lemon Race. In my opinion the AU has been the most unsuccessful Falcon racer ever. In my opinion the AU XR has been one of the best looking Falcons but looks don't win races. The last 2 years have proved that the best driver in Craig Lowndes has to have a good car and unfortuantly he has'nt.
Next year hopefully with Russell Ingall on board we will have the drivers in Lowndes,Radisich,Ingall,Ambrose, Seton,Johnson and Co, mated with the Best Falcon racer since the XY GTHO.
Won't it be great if Prodrive aquire the 00 Motorsport Team and have a HRT beating combo of Ingall and Lowndes.Finally a Ford SuperTeam, not seen since the Moffat early days.
But it seems Ford is behind the 8 Ball again, they should be racing the AV next year,but it seems that it won't be ready on time. Howard Marsden is building a car inhouse and it won't be ready on time,no one else has started a car yet, they have'nt even recieved their new body shells yet. I'll bet you HRT are already a mile ahead on the VX replacement for next year and it will win straight out of the box.
I also hope that with project blueprint that the parity between the cars is narrowed even more, AVESCO are moving in the right direction ie, common front end, computer, but what I would really like to see is a common aero package.I know that they run similar front spoilers but they should also have a common rear spoiler like they use to in the VN/EB days.
At the end of the day what I'm trying to say as a HUGE FORD FAN is, No more excuses!! 2003 will be our year. Lets have a HRT equivilant team,best drivers,best cars,and big budget. Lets put the AU behind us and admit it was a lemon and move on.

Dave from Kiwiland!!

[BadBilly]

jeez drof you didnt mention the 3 new engines ford are getting know anything about them like i heard that one of them will be the injected 351 cleveland.

[thekid_600]

As long as holden maintains their VX commodore performance on their VY commodore next year, ford will have to come up with something very good to knock those red cars off the podium, even with the AV falcon. The fact is, holden has got it perfect with their VX. unless they stuff the VY up, i find i hard to see a falcon beating them......

[v8coupe]

hope ingall doesn't make the same mistake as lowndes, and go to ford.
Quote "AVESCO are moving in the right direction ie, common front end, computer, but what I would really like to see is a common aero package.I know that they run similar front spoilers but they should also have a common rear spoiler like they use to in the VN/EB days."
I don't like the idea of the cars becoming simalar. If they did, may as well all be holdens. They all need something to play with to get a slight advantage on the track. Looking at the race laps times, they are all so close, I think it is fine the way it is.

[ET351]

Good call, V8coupe.

We don't want to watch a bunch of the same cars racing with different paint. Only two brands is bad enough (even if they're dinky di aussies).

I agree with drof's sentiments. The AU, whilst having potential, ranks only slightly better than those underpowered Mustangs DJ ran before the Sierra's in the mid '80s.

The problem with Aussie V8 racing is that the ruling bodies always find some way to penalise Ford when they're in front (extra weight, reduced spoilers etc), but never penalise Holden. Well I have the answer...

From next year, all Holdens should race with flat tyres, and the HRT team with only two wheels. An extra penalty for Skaify: he has to wear a blind fold.

Now I'll just sit here and await the wrath of you Holden fans :D

Cheers, ET

[XR8]

Quote "AVESCO are moving in the right direction ie, common front end, computer, but what I would really like to see is a common aero package.I know that they run similar front spoilers but they should also have a common rear spoiler like they use to in the VN/EB days."

This totally sucks. A Ford should be a Ford, and a Holden should be a Holden. Fit the extra safety items as a matter of course, and maybe brake upgrades, but otherwise leave them alone.
If either manufacturer wants to commit to parity, then they should go back to homolgating modifications by building the changes into their cars. That way everybody wins, the race teams, the fans, and the public who will end up with safer, more reliable cars....

Ed :)

[Hati]

ET that was hillarious! Thanks for the amusement :D

[CRAIG KEITH]

Dave, Mate I know where youre coming from but for a car that is such a lemon you obviously weren't watching the DJR NO:18 car at the mount, in2000. The point is the falcon can be as quick, but as long as holden hold the balance of power(ie media and CAMS, AVESCO) , it wont happen .

[BATHURSTFAN]

I agree, I don't want to see two different car shells with the same spoilers etc.

I disagree about the AU, it hasn't done that badly, take out HRT and the AU would have had a few more wins. Look how close Radisich (1999 - lead most of 140 laps until blown tyre) & Longhurst (2000 -hit backmarker 9 laps from finish when leading) came to winning Bathurst in the AU, and don't forget the 2nd place last year.

And DJR won the Ipswich 500 whilst playing in the sandtrap:D

and didn't DJR have a round win at Canberra last year???

All teams have hard luck stories, but its HRT VS The Rest

now if only Ambrose could be a bit patient...

AND BUILD TRACKS THAT ALLOW A BIT MORE PASSING.

[v8coupe]

Don't knock the fords. The lap times show all cars are up to speed. From pole to last place. Just a lot of things add up in a race that cost a little time here and there.

[Martin Thomas]

I wonder how Skaife in Ambroses car with the HRT crew would fare against Ambrose/stone brothers in Skaifes car. I would put my money on skaife every time. (It would probarbly be the first time the No.1 car had a dent in it this year).

[CRAIG KEITH]

You would do your money martin, Lowndes and Ambrose make it look like there is parity between the two marques, go to a track and see how the 150mm on the undertray and the out dated rear wing affect the Ford handling on high speed sweepers. And I meant the DJR car at Bathurst in 99 not 2000. Dont forget Barbagello last year (not bad for a ****box).

[BATHURSTFAN]

I agree, where was Skaife placed in the field between the Nissan & HRT years? And even when Lowndes was at HRT, who was winning most races then?

Any great driver will look even better if he has the equipment.

[wesley charles]

Sorry Drof,
But even if the new falcon is fitted with a more powewrful HO engine and has got the legs on the commodore , CAMS OR AVESCO who ever it is that decides the package to be finally hamologated , will make sure the commodore is still running up front as they have over the past few years, Remember when the EA - EL's were quicker than the commodores ,t hey were penalized , undertrays were trimmed , so they suffered mid corner.
Not so with the commodores, why's that , it's quite obivious to me.
What's that saying ! Kangaroo's , Football , Meat pies, and Holden cars.
Ever thought of the Italian Goverment and it's people supporting any other brand of race car than a Ferrari, what would that do to the sales of their own national Icon .
With Toyota always buying for a place to top the sales market in Australia as was Ford in past years , dont you think that it is in the interests of the economy that Australia's own car is winning the sales race , hence part of the reason I believe we see so many winning performances for Holden on the track over the past 10 years since Toyota has made a run for the no I position as Australia top selling car.


TO add to this '' FORD used to have a moto that went like this , Win on Sunday sell on Monday.
The new school of educated idiots employed at FORD decided that this TRUTH was not relevent in having any effect in todays modern terms on a persons initial choice of motor car .
How wrong they are , what is the percentages of all the Holden Commodores sold in the last couple of years that are SS's or HSV'S , it;s staggering .

And if any one would care to count , can you remember back in 1974 when Ford pulled the plug on motor racing as well as on there NO 1 driver, Allan Moffat , what were the number of wins for Ford compared to Holden.
It's no wonder that today so many young people including middle aged parents go out and purchase a Commodore with AERO Spoiler kits, they want to be identified with being a winner not a loser
Plus it's been well documented that the media plays a large part in what people believe about a certain car and it qualities .
We can thank Wheels Magazine who are noted for being biast towards a particular brand of car even though their initial tests prove other wise
And we can thank Ford once again for a well overdue stay by one of it's designers that they have now decided to pack the bags of and have given him a one way ticket to home , Europe.
Who needs more enemies like those mentioned above when you got friends like that running Ford
Good luck for I know how you feel.

[WESTY]

I dont think the AU has been that bad
The only reason they havnt won more races is because of breakdowns , driver error , other drivers errors , or pit errors.
They have proved they have the pace.
Just lacking a bit of luck.
Mr Skaife and co have managed to avoid most of the above, that comes down to good team work from the crew to the driver and a bit of luck.
as for driver ability
didnt Skaife win the championship with Lowndes as his team mate
people should except the fact that they are all good drivers.


:D

[v8coupe]

I still believe if lowndes was still with HRT and with none of the problems there was, skaife would have some real competition.
Main thing about HRT is that they are doing good pit stops, and skaife is keeping his cool on the track.
Only way we would know 100% who is the best driver is, is if everyone drove exactly the same car, right down to the bolts that hold it together. Which is great in theory, but impossible to do.
Give ambrose some more experience and we will see him up the front alot I am sure.
Plus having a GTHO engine, those days are gone which is obvious, all engines are at 5 Litres. Maybe if they bring out the 5.8 GTHO, CAMS OR AVESCO could up the litre range to 5.7 or 5.8.
Would make things a little faster.
I am happy with the way things are, just wish they would clear up these rules so we can enjoy a good race without little penalties being applied and that every driver knows these rules well. Why not put camera at the start and end of the pits that record the whole race, so they all get picked up.
The rule book might help if it was written in english, I presume it is written in legal jargon.

[Troy_H]

As V8Coupe said, all engines are 5.0lt regardless of what ford do with AV, this will not change.

I think some are being a bit harsh on the Fords, in a comp where less than a second seperates the top 25, there is little margin for error. Both makes have proved they can be good and bad in certain circumstances, but HRT are the difference. They have been dominant for the past 4 years or more. They are the most professional, they have the biggest budget and are the reason that everyone is seeing the Holden in such a favorable light. Take HRT out of the events and the rest of the teams have an even chance of winning (both Holden and Ford). You can't really say there is any other team that would take over the domination of the category if HRT left.

Holden share technology amounst their teams and have been doing so for years. Ford have struggled to get the AU setup correct and this lack of communication in the past could be a factor.

Ford have had their problems, the front splitter that shattered and fell of with the slightest shunt, the inferior aero kit, poor pitwork. They appear to be getting on top of the issues but their budget is spread too thin.

I think Ford problems are that they are throwing money at the issues and hoping getting a big name driver will do the trick. I can't see what a difference Ingall will make. Ingall has done nothing for years. He has been with the 2nd or 3rd best Holden team for his career. He know how Perkins operates. It will be a whole new learning curve with the Ford. He will suffer the same problems as Lowdnes.

They need to focus on one team, say, put Lowdnes with GSR and concentrate on getting Seton and Lowdnes competitive and sort out the reliability issues of the GSR car and the 00 Motorsport. Perhaps get Ambrose in with this team and run three cars. Leave DJR to do their own thing, Dick knows the business and has been the most succesful Ford team since the AU was launched. Wasting money on Ford super teams and drivers that wouldn't win a race if they ran a HRT car will not help their cause.

On the issue of the AV racecar launch, I heard it will be up and running before the season end, and will debut at Rd 1 next year. Not sure if this is correct. I also heard they were having trouble trimming the weight of the shell. Its a hefty little bugger.

I think Ford people need to remember that it has taken HRT many years and lots of hard work to get to where they are. They won't be defeated by a bit of work and a bucket load of cash. Ford like to come and go from racing as their budget sees fit. Lets hope they stick it out.

[drof]

How can you people say if you take HRT out of the equation that Ford has done alright. You can't take Tiger Woods out of the Golf scene, Ferrari out of Formula 1, Ducati out of Superbikes, to be No 1 you have to oust the No 1, you have to earn the right to call yourself No 1, please inform me all you statitions,since the AU was debuted how many Fords were there in the top 5 in the ATCC, and how many times has it won Bathurst. I don't want to here about the almost won, if this did'nt happen or or this fell off or this broke this is Motorsport and this all happens, and in my opinion more so to the AU. I know DJR has fast cars, he probably builds the fastest cars but you don't get conrod straight at every track so straight line speed is only a small portion of the big picture. You can't go on every year saying we are still learning about the AU ,the AU has been on our race tracks now for 4 years don't you think that is long enough to learn about it, these teams should know every thing about their cars, know how to set them up with 4 years of data aqusation, all in all the top running Ford teams should be winning more races and more Ford teams in the top 5 in races than the current 70/30 or so split in favour of Holden. The fact is if you put Mark Skaife in a Ford he would do no better, look at Craig Lowndes No 1 driver in a HRT car and then the big switch to Ford with only limited success.
Please guys no more if you take HRT out of the picture and the series could be anyones, good on HRT for doing a great job, and come on the rest of you and knock HRT of the podium, all of you lift yourselves to the HRT level and no more excuses.

Food for thought

Dave from Kiwiland!!

[Troy_H]

Dave,

You are right. If you read my comments, I think we are on a similar wavelength. Without HRT, the comp is fairly even. All I am saying is HRT is the benchmark. All teams should be looking to knock off HRT, not only the Ford teams They will remain unbeatable until an effort is made by Ford to concentrate on one team. They still do not have a factory backed team. They pulled out of a deal with FTR. Until they do this, they are wasting their time with expensive drivers and a huge number of entrants.

HRT strategy and pit work are what win the races in such tight events. Ford need a strategist. These people are difficult to come by. Someone like Allan Moffat is what they need to head up a team, get a couple of good drivers behind him would be a good start.

Realisticly, Lowdnes has had only 1/2 a year in a brand new car. It is still only early days, but so far it has not been the start the Ford fans expected.

[ferrari fan]

Lownes is the only driver that has done good with the Ford this year
Maybe ford should lease/buy some engines out of another normaly Red car and sneak it under the bonnet
the screeming of the 17000 revs would most problably give it away, 1000 HP in qualifying ;take that HSV (Tom Walkingslow)

[ET351]

I guess you're right, Ferrarifan. A high pitch screaming engine is just what we need to balance out the ballsy roar of the V8Supercars!!:D

Cheers, ET

BTW, I am a Schuey fan as well!;)

[drof]

Everyone to their own Ferrari Fan, if you like screaming 17000 rpm motors you must also like rotorys, it would be a great mowing race between a rotary and a formula 1 motor.
Personally I think Formula 1 is 70% car and 30% driver as all the gizmos and gadgets on a Formula 1 car do all the work. You might as well have all the engineers and mechanics with a remote control than the over-paid monkeys driving them. Yes I do enjoy all forms of Motorsport but I switch of Formula 1 as this is just rich men with expensive toys showingf us how BIG their manhood is.

This is not a personal attack on you ferrari Fan as I enjoy reading your threads and think you have alot to contribute to our forums, but an attack on the rules and governing body of Formula 1 that allow such machines to race at a huge cost to manufacturers and team owners when at the end of the day Formula 1 has no relivance or use to our every day driving or devolopment of motorcars.

Regards and hoping for a good debate

Dave from Kiwiland!!

[drof]

ps Ferrari Fan, what about Marcos Ambroses performance this year?

Regards

Dave from Kiwiland!!