NOT a Biante bagging, but a point.

Well well. What have Biante done now. I am usually a very pleased and excited collector when it comes to model cars. But then I receive the latest Biante Newsletter and read about this so called Lowndes "Farewell set"......

"These are the same cars that have been available previously"

Uh hum. Why are Biante making another batch of cars which they previously advertised as a 'Limited Edition'? Surely there are collectors out there who were excited to purchase Lowndes' 2000 HRT VT Commodre, believing they were buying a Limited Edition of his last HRT car, not a limited edition cardboard box.

If Biante were ever planning on making a 'farewell set' for Craig, why have they done it over two seasons later? I thought Perth was only two hours behind... I cannot see the value in buying this 'set' when the original cars are still on auction sites for around 100 bucks each. Is this just a sign of a company squeezing a few more dollars out of an already very worn mould?

People have talked about 1:18 CC models selling for as low as 30-40 bucks, but I have seen some Biante 1:18 V8Supercars in shops for as low as $70. Do the maths, they both work out to around 50% of the original retail price.

Why did Biante all of a sudden start doing an experiment to see how many presses you can do with a steel mould before it starts wearing thin? This is in no way meant to be a bagging for the best company that Australian collectors have EVER seen, but I fail to see the point in this collection, and also the 'collectivity' of this set. I would assume that the only people who would buy this set are those who want to purchase one of the cars they missed out on earlier, although at a higher cost than what they could if they shopped around.

Come on Biante, late model V8Supercars are beginning to wear a bit thin.

I hope this is not the start, I can't wait until Holden start their 'Farewell Apollo Promotion' or Ford's 'Farewell Anglia Sales Drive.'

I just hope that I don't ever have to buy a 'Farewell Biante Box'.

[Mazda]

I agree with you.

I am a new collector and find that there seems to be a lot of duplication of the same style of car like the new Holden Monaros and the V8 Supercars. I mean yes there are minor changes like paint body kits but the base seems to be the same.

I would be looking forward to seeing some MAZDA's in the 1:18 like the new RX8 or even some of the old classics like RX2, RX3, RX4 etc.

But getting back to the point I do seem to understand you point nkeefe.
I believe they have new boxes and certificates. All that seems to be happening is they place the old cars in the new boxes

[admin]

nkeefe,
I don't know why I pay for and provide this service to have garbage like this spat at me.
I suggest you read the answer in "Lowndes Farewell Set" and then leave this forum.
And I would prefer you DIDN'T buy a Farewell Set or anything else for that matter.
Admin

[Aussiecollector]

Ouch!!!

Admin, you thought I was a pain this guy has not tact at all, at least I said I was sorry.

They need to read before they write

Cheers Glenn

[Bangkok Bob]

I wouldn't worry about it too much Admin. I am sure many of us collectors read something like this, and, having read the other threads and carefully read the newsletter, realise how far out of left field the persons comments are. The biggest problems with forums is people can react so quickly, without thinking or investigating to see if they are right. I used to find forums annoyed me for this reason, now I just think it is funny because they are often obviously not on this planet (hey, I can't get angry at someone just because they are stupid...oops, I am not bagging anyone though).

I can appreciate that it gives you the irates though, as the way it is phrased makes it sound like he is just waiting for a chance to bag Biante (even if he did say it isn't a bagging...what is it then??). Maybe a representitive of an inferior product producing competitor company??

I guess the thing that makes me laugh is all the presumptuous statements made.

[Aussiecollector]

I Just noticed that this guy was a guest, I did'nt think guests could post.

Not very good manners for a guest

Glenn

[Bangkok Bob]

Well spotted Glenn, I thought that too!

[admin]

He used to be a member, but due to the miracle of electronics, he is now a guest!
Admin

[Ando]

Yeah guy's in defence of admin i just remembered that Holden have been advertising for some time know on the HSV site(model cars coming soon) and this Lowndes set has been organised by them as a way of selling some of thier ecxesses, i know they have many in Sydney and also it is probably a little stunt by a Holden PR guy to keep Lowndes name associated with Holden, just a thought ANDO.

[thekid_600]

Originally posted by admin
He used to be a member, but due to the miracle of electronics, he is now a guest!


I dont get that admin....... :confused: what do you mean? i missed all that.... can someone explain it to me? does that mean he got banned?

i didn't know that you had to pay for system..... in that case thanks for the system. :o

[Aussiecollector]

Some one with form, mate guess he wont be back

Glenn

[china]

Well, I guess I won't be able to do this for very long, as I actually agree with nkeefe. He perhaps could have been a little more tactful, but the sentiment of the message is sound - the focus of Biante appears to have shifted away from servicing true collectors to maximising the profile and profits of the organisation. I guess that's progress, but not everyone has to be happy with it.

The Brock Targa Tasmania Monaro is another example of the situation. The originally publicised release plan for cars in the Brock Collection (9 cars, one release approximately every two months) has been totally ignored while Biante have concentrated on other priorities. We then have the situation where another car is thrown into the collection, either to cash in on current publicity, or perhaps to get rid of a surplus of red Monaros?

If the situation with the 1:18 Brock cars is not silly enough, we now have a 1:43 set coming - will people be lured into starting this collection also, only to get mucked about down the track?

As far as this Forum goes, it is a shame that nkeefe has been dumped from the site for having his say. His original message did not violate any of the conditions stipulated when registering for this facility. If the Forum is only for those who wish to blindly praise an organisation that is losing track of its origins, then include this in the Terms and Conditions or turn it off.

[jager]

Hi Admin

Sorry, but in my opinion banning nkeefe is a classic case of 'Shoot the Messenger'. Perhaps his comments were ill-informed but that is the whole point of message boards such as this - to educate collectors (especially new collectors) about our hobby.

If Nkeefe missed the point that these models were not from a second production run and were simply old stock being re-packaged by HSV not Biante, how many of your other valuable customers also missed the point ? Ok - we all understand the situation now but where does that leave Nkeefe and what happens next time Holden / HSV or Lowndes' Mum decides to re-release Biante models in their own packaging.

[FTR_LOVER]

I agree with both parties here. nkeefes message may have been a bit harsh, but I can fully understand his point.

As a business, Biante has full right to make money, what else is a company for?

But all of US, as consumers, have a right to provide feedback to any company who trades fairly. nkeefe could have been a bit more subtle, but he said what I believe a fair amount of the collectors believe; that the focus has shifted from collectors to bulk models. 'Profiteering' I doubt, but like another user said, the rate of release for the brock models is way below the original quota (I still have a picture of the 9 original models, which so far has turned into a slow release).

As far as blocking a user goes, that doesn't help anyone's case. All this sends out is that Biante have taken their bat and ball and gone home just like little children do when they are 5.

Singling out any threat of a user who does not submit a comment which praises them is 'spitting in the face of the collector'.

Come on, let's get back to collecting.

[admin]

I am amazed that some people think that its in the interests of discussing collecting, that all at Biante should sit back and let everyone come on here a state mistruths without ever asking a question first...which is what the forum is supposed to be about.
Read my reply and then read nkeefes (and China and FTR) 'contribution' and see if you think they truely can understand what I have said and done.
A new collector comes on here and sees rubbish like, and I quote "Biante is profiteering, repackaging, selling cardboard, getting rid of surplus Monaros, etc etc.
Can you seriously expect me to allow all the workers that make up team at Biante take that garbage.
As I have said countless times if you care to read the forums is that I never duck an issue on models or mistakes or genuine enquiries etc.
What I dont do is accept people flying off the handle telling me how to run my own company.
If I thought that any of these people would have the intestinal fortitude to eyeball me and say the same things face to face I would be concerned.
To preserve order on the forums and to ensure that they are to stay part of this site and to save everyone the trouble of reading some of this stuff, if you are a true collector and have concerns, ask a question before you start telling the world how you think others should operate/
We have over 12 million entries into this site per year and 4 or 5 people on this forum are not going to ruin it for the rest.

[FTR_LOVER]

Admin,

:( I was not being critical of Biante.

I have re-read your reply in the similar thread, and also all replies on this thread. I ADMIT (although not in as strong words as nkeefe), that I thought Biante was re-releasing a previous limited edition (based upon newly made models). As this is how it appeared to come across as in the last newsletter. This letter also said that you would be adding to this with the cars Craig drove between 1994 and 2000.

Because these have already been made by Biante, I thought 'what the heck is this going on!?!?'.

HOWEVER, after I read your reply, I realised that this was an idea from HRT, and more importantly, using UNSOLD Lowndes cars. It was a simple and easy mis-understanding which caused this thread and the later half of the other thread for this Lowndes set.

I suppose Jager's 2nd paragraph sums up my views, if something comes in something resembling a Biante box, with Biante models in it, they automatically assume everything about it is from Biante (what company wouldn't give their proverbials for that recognition?).

Like nkeefe (although not in as strong words), in my opinion perhaps Biante are focusing too much on the current V8Supercars. This is not at all just a 'contribution' as you outline it above, but my opinion.

Through the strong and hard working team at Biante, there are thousands of very passionate collectors out there, thanks to Biante. It is obviously impossible to please all of them 100% of the time. But, the whole team at Biante should be proud of their achievements, both in the past and no doubt in the future!!!

[Mazda]

Admin
I have read nkeefe comments a few times and I do understand what he is saying.

I have read your comments admin and to me it seems that nkeefe wrote the post and later that night you replied to the other lowndes post after nkeefe had already started the thread.

You answered some of my thoughts in the lowndes thread.

I thought this forum was about discussing the models!!

The way I read it from nkeefe is that he is not saying that Biante was crap or rubbish. ( I believe they are excellent model cars myself)

It appears to me that if you say something good about Biante its ok but if you put across your opinion that is not in a positive nature you will get kicked off the forum.

I would have liked to have seen what nkeefe would have to say about this thread now but I guess we will never know as he has been kicked out.

I also agee with the china comment
"The originally publicised release plan for cars in the Brock Collection (9 cars, one release approximately every two months) has been totally ignored while Biante have concentrated on other priorities. "

I thought the forums were here to find out information no matter good or bad.

I have been to the FORD and HOLDEN forums and I tell you that that the majority of the topics does not put positive comments towards those company's but the admins do not kick people off for it.

I agree with you that Biante staff should not sit back and let everyone come on here a state mistruths.
But then you should straighten the mistruths so that we all know what is correct and not just kick that collector off and basiclly tell him he you don't care about that collector or basically telling him to get stuffed.

I mean we all know the answer now about the Lowndes twin pack from your answer in another thread.

I am also new to these forums and have been a collector for a short period of time (for the last 8 months)

My opinion as stated above was that I would like to see some MAZDA models in the 1:18 scale as well

THESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS

Now my question to you admin is
The originally publicised release plan for cars in the Brock Collection (9 cars, one release approximately every two months) so what is the reason for this large delay ???

[thekid_600]

Errr..... guys, can we PLEEEEEEEEASE stop fighting and just forget about this? right or wrong, it's released, so let it be.

i just came onto this thread and was greeted by 2 ten page essays.......

admin has spoke and reasoned, others have also spoken and reasoned, we have heard both sides of the story. take a side if you must, and just keep it to yourselves.

i sincerely hope that this is not a start of a long term trend.....

[admin]

Mazda, while I accept your comments, please explain why I should accept rubbish comments and then spend valuble time defending my company against untrue allegations???
Better that the contributor attempts to get the facts before blasting off at the mouth full of ignorance.
Every minute I spend countering this stuff is another minute I don't spend developing new items etc.
In answer to your question re the Brock releases, the reason for the delay is quite simple.
When we originated Peters Collection, we had no idea, and that goes for Peter too, how big this would all become.
From a 'seemingly endless' run of XY's as some put it back in 1999, we have now 3 major collections going, Holden have released the Monaro again, HSV is on a high as far as road car sales, and HRT is on a high as far as race car victories, Lowndesy swapped from Holden to Ford and so it goes on.
What could easily have been a road car, a Brock, a Moffat, a Johnson and a Classic released every 6 weeks which would have been 8 of each per year or 40 models, suddenly we have had to included current topical cars..ie Lowndes AU Falcon, Targa Monaro, VX Commodores, Bathurst Winners (and soon BA Falcon and VY SS Commodore), that would have resulted in 2 cars a WEEK. And that is just the 1:18ths!!
This was discussed with Dick and Peter and Allan an the decision was made to extend the licenses and space them out to suit you, the collector.
Everyone seems to want to collect most of the ranges and that would have been over $3000 outlay per year per moderately keen collector.
And for Biante, apart from tooling costs ,which are in 8 figures, it IS an outlay of over $18 million per year!!
So, in a nutshell, thats why.
OH! and you will be pleased to know that there is a Mazda RX7 "riceburner" in the pipeline for early 2003. In 1:18th.

[XR8]

Originally posted by admin
(snip)OH! and you will be pleased to know that there is a Mazda RX7 "riceburner" in the pipeline for early 2003. In 1:18th.

Admin, is that the Peter Stuyvesant RX7 of Allan Moffat??
Can't wait to see some pix!!

Ed :)

[xa351gt]

Geesh, Didn't Neefe realize if he is that unhappy with what was going on with those cars that it is his choice to NOT BUY THEM.These repackages (if that's what is going on ) is a great opportunity for collectors who may have come into the game late to pick up a copy of the cars.I really don't know what the fuss is all about .Admin. not all of us believe that you are vicimizing your consumers so keep your chin up and continue producing the best diecast any where.

[mustang1966]

Well to add my 2 cents worth as a collector of model cars (2 years now) I am more than happy with what Biante have produced. I limit myself to Biantes & Autoart cars. They have offered collectors of model cars much more than the other brands, and given us something unique to Australia, not just V8supercars as others have but classic Australian tough mussle cars. I think it is also great that they have slowed production of cars to help those people out there who cannot afford to spend 3000 - 4000 dollars a year on models. It shows me the company wants to look after the customer.


Well done guys and keep up the great work. The house looks oh so much better now because of the collection of cars I have, thanks.

It also gets great comments from people who are into cars and racing but never really looked into model cars.


oh one question that may have been asked for, if so excuse my ignorance but when/if are you guys going to realease the 79 brock A9X. That is one car I am hanging to add to my mostly Ford collection.

[Dale Robertson]

Who cares if it is cars in different packaging. If you don't like it
don't buy it. Some of you on this forum griping better get you aprons on and headback to cooking class instead of carrying on like shielas.
As I said if your not happy don't BUY IT and cut out the
whinging!!

[ET351]

I'll echo the thoughts of Mustang1966.

Biante offers a great, uniquely Australian product, which is high quality and still affordable. Also, I'm glad Admin understands his customer base, and knows not everyone can afford $3000- plus a year, so thanks Admin for a responsible approach to fulfil my addiction!

I'm usually buying either road Fords, AM, DJR and Bathurst winners, and that's enough to raise the eyebrows of the 'house manager'! Luckily I'm not as addicted as those of you into the V8Supercars or HRT collections

Cheers, and keep up the great work, Admin. About 99% of us appreciate your work!

ET

[XR8]

Originally posted by ET351
I'll echo the thoughts of Mustang1966.

Biante offers a great, uniquely Australian product, which is high quality and still affordable. Also, I'm glad Admin understands his customer base, and knows not everyone can afford $3000- plus a year, so thanks Admin for a responsible approach to fulfil my addiction!

I'm usually buying either road Fords, AM, DJR and Bathurst winners, and that's enough to raise the eyebrows of the 'house manager'! Luckily I'm not as addicted as those of you into the V8Supercars or HRT collections

Cheers, and keep up the great work, Admin. About 99% of us appreciate your work!

ET

Some good points ET, but I have a few minor differences..
I don't have a house manager to worry about..
I've learned to live on less food so I can afford more models!!!

Yeah, like you, I'm keen on the Fords, road or race, I've been lucky to get examples of my most favourite, both DJR Tru-Blu, and Greenstuff.. It doesn't get much better than this!!!!
I share your praise of Admin, and the efforts made to give us collectors a place to hang about and talk cars...
That's what I'm here for anyway!!

Ed :)

PS, I haven't forgotten your Lotus pix, I'm just waiting for a friend to return my camera......

[the_goldie]

Here here mustang1966, Dale Robertson, ET351 (damn those sharks) and XR8!!!

It is nice to get a new model every couple of months, plus it gives us collectors a chance to get other models that are in surplus that we may not have bought when it was released.

Hey ET351, ever tried sneaking them in? I know I can't because if a package arrives at the post office and then a few minutes later I come back with this lovely brown packaged box waiting to be ripped open I know she will say - not another one!!! :D But hey it's all good - I use my new boy as a good excuse, even if he is only 3months old - and say he can continue the collection.

Also he won't have to wait 15 or so years before the SKAIFE 2002 (come on BRIGHTY!) Championship winner is released... hehehe - easy now you ford fans, unlike the 77 Bathurst Twin set that we all eagerly await to get our grubby little mits on :D

Keep up the great work BIANTE, and don't release too many at once... cause you know we love them all.

[Bangkok Bob]

On the issue of people being concerned about the number of models released (or the misconceptino that a limited model was being re-released) I have to admit that I don't care if there are 100,000 of a model relased as long as I get one if it is one I want. I really just buy them as they look cool on the shelf. Okay its nice to have a limited run model, but its not the be all and end all, it is really jsut that I want a cool collection to admire in my free time.

As far as frequency of new models, I must admit I wouldn't mind a bit of spacing so I can feel like I am being financially responsible, but if they come out often I will still buy them (havent done so well over the past 7 months, acquiring 13 1/18 and 8 1/43 models).:)

As far as sneaking them in? my models are sent to my brother in Aus who is looking after them until I return to Aus permanently, in the meantime, the other half has no idea how many I have accumulated....she's pretty good and I am sure she won't be phased either. I think she's still confused as to why a grown man is buying something that to her appear to be toys.:D

[the_goldie]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bangkok Bob
I think she's still confused as to why a grown man is buying something that to her appear to be toys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not sure how many women are on this forum, but if there are any, can you let us men know your thoughts to collecting these "toys". I don't think alot of women will understand our hobby, heck I even know some guys that don't (bloody weirdos...lol).

[Hati]

If my wife would be willing to break her usual "read only at best" approach, she could tell you that model cars (and bikes) are very cool indeed especially if you do the right thing and collect quality.
I have never got a hard time from her, what's more, she even suggested some of the items I was only contemplating on. I realise I am one of the few lucky one's who doesn't have to fight a war every time Biante has a new beauty on the horizon. Never the less I would love to find out what do the other wifes think.

[v8coupe]

My Girl Friend got my started. Talked me into buying the green LJ tori's. Then got the other LJ's. Didn't take long to get hooked.

[perry]

The secret is guys, that you need to 'convince' your better half to start collecting something. My missus is a huge Star Trek nut, so its every video or dvd for her... which leaves me saying "well, that means i should get a model, to be fair..."

Works a treat....

[xa351gt]

I'm one of the lucky ones who has a wife that fully realizes that the best way for guys not to enter a 2nd childhood as they age is not to leave the 1st one. I call my collecting my vice. As I don't smoke ,drink or chase other women ( just her ) She is very happy to have me at home playing with my "toys".I began collecting diecast with 1/64 NASCAR That I began in 1995. Now numbers over 1000 cars and 90 transport trucks. Only recently did I get into 1/18 cars. I started with Ertl's American muscle car series. Then i finally moved to the good stuff. Biante/Autoart Falcons. So to say she is understanding I guess is a major understatement. The real test was when I brought home the 1/1 model of my 1972 XA GT replica coupe. It went well I can still speak in low tones :)

[Nick Short]

Yeah, same here - I bought myself a 1:1 Cobra, and she was less than impressed at first!!! Now she thinks it's cool as, and keeps wanting to go for a cruise round Oxford. However, the models are a different story........I have to keep pretending I've forgotten I've ordered one when it arrives, or more commonly, a card drops onto the mat saying that there's a package to pick up from the Post Office. At least I'm not collecting V8 Supercars - I don't know how some of you get away with it!

[ferrari fan]

My good wife also doesnot at all make any remark if and when another one comes to a good home and this sometimes happenes miltiple times a day
It all has to do with the fact that I do not in any way stop her Cat stature collection and If I see a cat for her I buy this and help her in her pursuit

[ET351]

Thanks for all your tips, fellow collectors!!!

Of course, the better half is actual quite supportive of my 'habit'! I agree (and apply the 'his and hers collections' principle. It's a healthy thing to have some differing hobbies/interests I think.

V8Coupe, you ARE a lucky man! Your lady got you into this ???!!!

BTW, no rush XR8, I can wait for the pic, I'm not going anywhere soon.

Cheers, ET

[v8coupe]

ET351,
After reading others replys, looks like I am very lucky. Just can't wait till that day I get to display them all

[mustang1966]

Well guys I don't wish to brag BUT, My other half loves them. In fact I cannot lay claim to the owning every model car in the house. In our collection the 4 X 1:43 XY GTHO's are hers, the Wild Voilet 1/18 XY GTHO and Quicksilver 1/18 are hers as well. She also lays claim to the only CC in the household. She loves Glenn Seton, thus the single 1/18 Glenn Seton Falcon.

I prefer the DJR collection, some moffat stuff, AC Cobras, The Mustangs (Which she brought me) :) The odd old Torana and the mighty Vitamin C 1/43 charger ( waiting on 1/18 in these babies)

Boy am I the lucky one :)

[oldxr]

Seems like this has turned around for the better, On the first part of the thread, If you think your being ripped off by this company, DON"T buy their product, no one forcing you.
On the second part, I just buy FORD product including all XY's, XW's, all this Moffat and Johnson, but nothing Clowndes, don't think i'll ever be able to bring myself to concider him a FORD driver, i think it might be a Dunnydore painted to look like a Falcon.

[BATHURSTFAN]

I don't care who drives the FORDS - as long as they win!:)

[thekid_600]

as long as they win? well you must have been pretty excited about season 2002 so far!! six HRT victories in as many started this year!! (boooooorrrrrring)
better hope the BA will deal serious damage to holden, or you may have to wait for another 3 or 4 years!!!! :D

[BATHURSTFAN]

I'm just in the same boat as the Perkins, Ingall, Kiwi fans etc, its not just watching Fords not winning, just one foreign backed team winning all the time:p as you said, thats what makes it "boring".

it would be same in any sport - that same person winning all the time.

:rolleyes:

[thekid_600]

bathurstfan, cant really escape from that sort of boredom this year in any motor racing...... they're all dominated by pretty much one driver:
v8s - skaife
konica - dumbrell
bikes GP- rossi
bikes - bayliss
f1 - schumacher
Fholden - will power
porsche cup - coleman

i'll stop here.
;)

[ET351]

Spot on, kid;

And don't forget rugby league: Bulldogs, then.....

Although, the Sharks are charging :D

Cheers, ET

[thekid_600]

i missed da matta in CART. also pretty much dominating.

but like skaifey said before - it's not a matter of HRT, Ferrari etc not making any mistakes, its just they make LESS than everyone else.

ps - go eels!!!
:) (just to spoil the fun! )

[the_goldie]

thekid_600 - go the eels indeed! But if we keep losing we will be out of the 8 and be struggling to make the final series :( Come on eels pull your finger out!!!

[V8SS]

Goldie & TheKid
I couldn't resist but we don't get the chance to gloat much over here so "Go the Warriors" Who did they beat on the weekend??

[terrine]

cowboys thrashed canberra....
why would you want to hold a race there

[SWRT]

Don't forget that Audi dominate the American le mans series and the le mans 24 hour.

[rehau]

what a great old thread

[stonebrosfan]

Wow,

admin was a bit harsh and attacking back then weren't they.

And people say that the CC forum is bad!

[Dingo]

Yeah but the promised Mazda never arrived :(

[k1w1taxi]

OH! and you will be pleased to know that there is a Mazda RX7 "riceburner" in the pipeline for early 2003. In 1:18th.

Hmm Must Be a VERRRRY long pipeline :-))
Still waiting on this one which I believe was promised again late last year/early this year.

I know the cost equation comes into it (ie lots more XC/XD/XE schemes available) but the 7 was a much more significant car than just about every post XA Moffat release made so far.

So Whats the good news Admin Huh? Huh? Huh? :-)

Cheers
Rice Burning Lee

[Nathan Rzepecki]

Please direct your questions to admin to Richard Poole as Admin was formerly Trevor Young.

[younglion]

i totally agree with the BASIS of this thread, he could have wrote it better but i guess no ones perfect. By no means am i spitting in biantes face by agreeing its just frustrating to see it happen and i can see where nkeefe was coming from. But i guess he is no longer with us because he decided to speak up for the people in the same boat as him. Australia ......... Freedom of speech...... YEAH RIGHT

[Martin Thomas]

Holy crap! what have I missed?? It was a reboxing of models already produced, right? By a third party, right?

Try CC out for maximising moulds, they celebrate a win at a round for gawds sake. And then there was the extra gamesworld chargers getting sold on ebay with hand written certficates. :eek: .

Sure the V8's are wearing thin generally, but it's not for us to decide what Biante should release, it's up to us what to buy..

[athol]

Martin Thomas.
You need to visit CC's site and read the explanation as to why there were 8 extra handnumbered certificates for the charger, there is nothing sinister in the extra numbers. I have certificate.1004.

Athol.

[Leigh]

Stonebrosfan...This thread is still here isn't it?

Younglion...Australia is a country of free speech, but enter somebodies house and their rules stand! Remember this forum is OWNED by Biante...Unfortunately you can't search for nkeefe's other posts (although most of them should still be there), but he made some doozies and IIRC this thread was the last straw...

Athol, Yes, it is a good explanation, still does not make it right!