How Original is HSV?

[toecutter]

I am currently working in Germany and I have noticed something that is rather frighting being a HSV fan. For many years, I go with the motto, I Just Want One, but now I question it. I see infront on me cars even going back 5 years for example Astra, Ventra etc here in Germany with exactly HSV stlyed rims in sizes 14 to 15 inch rims.Is HSV just using old euro designs with no imagination and then telling us it is new. Yes! For many years I thought HSV was a bunch of talanted Australias making great designs and cars but now I think differently. HSV, I Dont Want One.

[ET351]

Aaah Yes, Holden Originality (a contradiction of terms)

Remember the All New VB Commodore (based on the Opel?)

How about the All New VN with V6 (BUICK) engine....

But, credit where credit is due. They have designed a great looking coupe. Just waiting for Ford to get off their collectives and design a better one!

Now I'm bound to be a target, but oh well, no point being a Ford Fan if I'm not going to stir the pot.

Cheers, ET351

[brock rules]

Toecutter why is that when a car company is doing well in the world or v8 supercars like holden are people are always trying to find ways of putting them down take skaife for instance what a champion he will be champion again this year and who knows how many more years to come people were hoping lowndes would bring ford back but you cant put a champion in a lemon of a ford and expect him to win he should be back driving a holden and if you are complaining about a set of wheels i dont want you driving a H.S.V anyway buy a ford.


hdt rule

[Aussiecollector]

The comments are fair, having worked at the GMH plant in Melbourne as an outside contractor with almost exclusive access I can tell you that there were plenty of Opels in the grounds and only last year in Sydney I mistook a Opel Carlton in a carpark as a Test rig for the Now VX, all of the commodores have been a variant of the opel in some shape or form (Nothing wrong with that it keeps the costs down) since the VB. Just as the camira was a vauxhall and if you look real close at some of the older UK Vauxhalls you can see the Torana. The main difference is that the poms never really got around to making them go as good.

I also saw plenty of Vettes and just after the first Falcon model (after the last Box model XF I think). Holden had one Falcon completely disassembled and I mean every nut and bolt and it was all up on a wall the complete car laid flat.

The best thing I ever saw was 2 V8's motors on the dyno side by side running full tilt.

This was all about 15 years ago so no secrets have come out.

[toecutter]

Whos talking about V8supercars??? Look beyond the picture! I was just stating the fact that HSV has begged borrowed,stolen parts form the GM family and made out it is an australian first.

[The real OZ GP]

The age of the True Aussie car is long since past , dont forget that it is a two way street though . Look at the Pontiac GTO , will Americans be *****ing about Not Built Here syndrome , probably not . Car styling tends to follow global trends so we should expect to see similar styling around the world , especially from the large manufacturers.

I guess though in the case of HSV their defence would be that it is an Aussie first as it is the first time it has been available in Australia , now if they were claiming a world first , then we would have somthing to argue about :)

[XR8]

Originally posted by brock rules
Toecutter why is that when a car company is doing well in the world or v8 supercars like holden are people are always trying to find ways of putting them down take skaife for instance what a champion he will be champion again this year and who knows how many more years to come people were hoping lowndes would bring ford back but you cant put a champion in a lemon of a ford and expect him to win he should be back driving a holden and if you are complaining about a set of wheels i dont want you driving a H.S.V anyway buy a ford.


hdt rule

1. I believe the anti-HRT / Holden sentiment is exactly the same as the treatment dished at Ford fans.

2. People will continue to cut down such tall poppies in these circumstances. Particularly when the people leading the company, or the person winning the championship carry as though they are 'above' everyone else.
Sure, you may be able to name particular instances about a Ford related person / team / whatever, but when you stop and look at it, the character displayed by the opposition is just plain sickening.
Having met one of the people concerned, I have no doubts at all that things will not change for the better.

3. I think the generalisation about the wheels, can be applied to other manufacturers to a degree, the main part being is that HSV
is supposed to be something individual. After all, that is why people are paying through their noses for them, aren't they??
Would you shell out your hard earned just to get the latest wheels, only to find out they're already 2 or 3 years old from overseas?? I think not. Especially when you're expecting something new!!!!

4. I think you might have a good set of lungs there, as I ran out of breath half way through your paragraph!!!
Check your full stop button!!

Brock rules- Seriously, I think sometimes we are all as bad as each other when it comes to this age old argument between Holden and Ford. If people didn't wind each other up so much, I'm sure that you'd mostly get some acknowledgement of the good of both sides, by both sides.

Trouble is, some of us are just die-hard fans that won't accept the opposite, regardless of anything.
When people get wound up by a particular posting, the worst thing to do is to reply straight away to a forum and not think about what you say. In some forums, you're not able to change these comments, and that can have very negative consequences for your own standing in such a forum.

Let's get back to talking about the good with our cars!!!

Ed :)

[Nick Short]

Well look at it this way - until recently, when you Aussies started selling your cars overseas in a bigger way, the Oz car market was relatively tiny, and therefore devlopment budgets were similarly small. What Aussie designers were very good at doing was taking other cars, or bits of, and making them work better and look better. So, UK and European Opels and Vauxhalls became more exciting Holdens (Vauxhall Chevette v A9X?), and US Fords became better Aussie Fords (US Falcon v Phase III?). HSV, being a UK-led company, clearly were going to start with local technology and styling (and didn't Peter Brock's HDT use German Irmscher rims straight off the Opels?) and take it from there. The result was cars like the VL SS Walkinshaw, a far more exciting version of a car than anything Europe had to offer, until perhaps the Lotus Carlton. As a Pom perhaps I'm more excited by Aussie versions/interpretations of familiar Euro cars, not least because you guys know what to do with a V8!

[Nick Short]

And weren't the Globe wheels on the 70s Falcons a ripoff/homage to the Ferrari Daytona alloys? Nothing's really new - it's just generally if the markets are kept separate people are none the wiser!

[perry]

A few points....

1) I couldnt care less what rims the HSV vehicles share with other European specific cars, because i dont live in Europe. Just because they are common over there, does not mean they are over here.The VT GTS and CV8 wheels are both made by ROH, and can be purchased from any ROH dealer. So what?? Seriously, the time is quickly coming, when all the possible unique designs for alloy five spoke rims will be exhausted.

2) If the development budget was stretched to include 100% unique parts/design/ideas, the additional cost would be simply passed onto the end user, eg: you and me.
There is $8600 added to EVERY NEW CV8 Monaro to cover the costs of engineering and design, and that was done on a shoestring budget (based on 7000 vehicles, $60 million total). How much more can be added (in the way of costly, unique tooling and parts, not to mention development time) before the product is over priced??

3) There is more to owning a car than parading around thinking you have a 'one of' set of wheels. If you now do not wish to own a HSV because there is a simular rim (14") on the opposite side of the world, you didnt really want a HSV to begin with did you?