The ticklish question of tobacco advertising

[adam j]

I have only been a collector of Biante models for about 2 years, and as the staff at Biante know, I'm a real bear when it comes to attention to detail (Biante detailing is superb!!). What I would like to know is, why is the use of tobacco branding banned on model cars? These cars are NOT toys, but serious historical collectable items. Without the tobacco advertising on the early HDT vehicles, some Moffat vehicles etc. then the detailing just can't be correct. I'm afraid that any arguement from the government that these decals may influence a whole new generation of smokers just doesn't hold water with me, especially when I can go to my local newsagents and buy a magazine (for significantly less than the cost of a diecast model) with photos of HDT vehicles, resplendant in their Malboro colours, complete with all sign-writing! Am I the only one who sees a serious set of double standards here? Is there any way that we can pressure the appropriate people in power to allow exemption on these vehicles? Am I just being a pedantic mongrel? I would be interested in the views of others, as I am keen to ALWAYS see these models as correct in EVERY detail. Over to you.

[Donny05]

I agree very strongly with you Adam,
but what can be done to change the classification of our Model cars from "toys" by law. It is absolutely #@%&^*! ridiculous that a model car cannot be replicated as it originally was because of a stupid law that doesn't make sense, when kids can buy pictures or books containing this same cars in full glory! Does anyone have any ideas as to how we can get this law changed in Australia? and do we have a chance to do so? Please help our hobby/life out! :confused: :mad:

[admin]

I have spent 6 years now fighting this one and before this forum string wanders into previously discussed waters and no offence to any of our contributors, old or new, but the facts are:

It is ILLEGAL to put any form of tobacco logos or promotional items on "TOY" cars or in the packaging they are sold in.

All model cars are categorised under Federal legislation and the Customs Act as Category 28C...TOYS. Irregardless of price!!

End of argument.

[adam j]

Sorry about thrashing around on old ground. I hope that I didn't tread on Admin's toes, but I just feel that it is a valid arguement. I know that you can't fight city hall (anyone who has ever dealt with any branch of the government will know that!!!). Maybe there needs to be pressure brought to bare on the government to introduce a new category called "Collectables", with approval being granted on a case-by-case basis. If it means that each model costs more, but is historically correct, then I'm willing to pay extra. What do you think?;)

[Martin Thomas]

Even if those in government said it was OK, the tobaccoists would probarbly want an arm and a lung for the privelage of advertising for them anyway. Surely someone out there could supply stickers anyway, I know its not the same, But......

[FOMOCO]

I also agree that a change in classification owuld be good, I also know of someone who can supply slide on decals for most of our cars, all mine are done and look great. E-mail me if you want his details.

pkerlin@bigpond.net.au

[Martin Thomas]

Sorry about the word you removed administrator man, wont happen again. Just a bit jaded with the government at the moment...

[admin]

Originally posted by Martin Thomas
Sorry about the word you removed administrator man, wont happen again. Just a bit jaded with the government at the moment...

Its OK Martin...just keep it suitable for ALL.

I know the feeling...I went through it about 5 years ago for 2 years dealing with mentally disadvantaged people in supposed high places to try for commonsense to prevail. I have given up!

[adam j]

Mr Admin.........maaaaaate. Do you have any dramas with bona fide collectors lobbying their local members in a sensible, positive manner on this subject? I'm getting the feeling that there are quite a few people in the same boat as me (yourself included, by the sounds of it). I don't have a problem with the ban on tobacco advertising (although how it can be an offence to advertise a legal product is confusing to me), my interest is authenticity. Let me know, and I'm quite happy to get the ball rolling my end.
Cheers,
adam j:D :D

[admin]

This has been tried by several members from different states (each state has its own laws on this and the Feds have another set of laws by the way) and we even got letters back from a couple of our learned friends which showed just why they are held in such poor esteem.
The poor collectors who did it couldn't believe the absolute garbage that was honoured with the coat of arms on the top of the official explanation!!
You are more than welcome to try by all means but you will have to get all states and territories and Federal laws changed.
As they say LOTSALUCK!!
I've got better things to do.

[adam j]

Well, as they say, everyone has to have a mission in life. This may well be Mission Impossible, but if nothing else, I'm a stubborn mongrel!!!!!!! I'll keep the site and members posted on my progress, but don't hold your breath (if you're a smoker, then you probably can't anyway!!)

Cheers

adam j :rolleyes:

Just a short note:

Could Biante not leave blank spaces or even put the background of where the tobacco advertising was on the car, so that the serious collectors can get the signage/stickers made up and apply themselves.

Then the collector would have an exact replica in their collection.

Is this type of thing illegal.

[Glen Alexander]

I also think it is ridiculous....... I have the 1992 Skaife/Richards Skyline Bathurst winner. I got the Winfield decals from a shop in Fairy Meadow.. and they look awesome on 'Godzilla'. I don't know how this affects its value, but it looks so much better with them on.

[jager]

If you think its ridiculous that the models can't carry cigarette advertising consider the unfortunate situation of the people who own the real cars. A friend has the ex Brian Foley 'Chesterfield' Alfa Romeo GTA that raced in the production car series in the early 1970's but he not permitted to take the vehicle on the track at Wanneroo if the vehicle carries its original Chesterfield sponsorship (despite the fact the Chesterfield brand no longer exists to the best of my knowledge). A ridiculous situation caused by politicians and exagerated by over zealous administrators.

[adam j]

Yes, another sign of legislation gone mad!!!!! This just adds credence to my arguement. I do have one question that someone may be able to answer: If you can't display models with tobacco advertising in public, and you can't race historic cars with same, how can the Bathurst Motor Museum display some of the vehicles that they are displaying, complete with tobacco advertising? If they have some sort of exemption, then this may be our loop-hole. If anyone knows the answer to this, please let me know.

Ciao,

adam j :confused:

[admin]

You can do anything if you don't mind getting caught and suffering the consequences!!
It is ILLEGAL...stupid, but illegal.

[SmartyMarty]

Did i get that right...its illegal when you put tobacco ads on your own model car????

[Hati]

No Smarty, you didn't get it right. In the privacy of your own home you stick on your models anything you like. But you can't display tobacco ad in public (or sell), in any shape, size or form. Of course, as our friendly Admin pointed out, you do what you like, as long as you are prepared to live with the consequences. Unfortunatly we have so many do-gooders in Australia, that the likelihood of getting caught is quite high. Funny thing is, I grew up in Europe, where 15-20 years ago tobacco ads were as common as grass, yet nobody I know took up smoking because of it. I suppose this is textbook case of "falling over the other side of the horse" paragraph.

[SmartyMarty]

Ahh..well...to be honest most laws are pretty unnecessary.I didnt see any tobacco ads in germany for quite a while..but i do see teenagers smoking as if it was their last cigarette..as long as adults are smoking ...teenies will imitate it...but thats another topic.Wouldnt it be a possible for maybe Biante to produce decals for the models as accessories?As far as i know a decal is not a toy...in germany its pretty hard to get decals..especially for scale 1:18..There are some manufacturer in Portugal but its really hard to get them....i dont think I would find decals for "Godzilla" over here...umm..and a last question(sorry..its always a lt of work to understand everything the way it was ment)...when i want to sell a model car with tobacco decals on..is that illegal?
thanx for answering SmartyMarty:rolleyes:

[Hati]

I don't think so Smarty, Admin can correct me if I'm wrong, as long as you sell it like that, private. Whatever is on your premises doesn't count as "public display", once out of your house, it is the buyer's responsability.

[ferrari fan]

the manufacturer can not in any way supply decals ,even in broken form ,to the publik. FULL STOP ,so if you want to put it on that is your buissnes
you can make them yourself and you can buy them from whoever
but no buissnes or person in his right mind will leave himself open to this sort of fines and other penalties in this country.
It is useless to even ask the forum provider to help . it is not possible

[XR6WGN]

TOBACCO ADVERTISING

Yep it's an old subject and one that is not going to go away. Food for thought all, when the Peter Brock cars were on display at the NATIONAL motor museum (Birdwood) they all had that M word blazoned all over them

Sort of makes a mockery of the whole law doesn't it??

Catch yah

Paul B
XR6WGN

[Sammy Hagar]

Hi, this is my first posting,...with this talk about not being able to insert a decal sheet of " naughty" words (broken up ,or any other way) with a diecast model of a tobacco sponsored car ,how does Dinkum Classics get away with it , if it`s illegal to do so ?:confused

[Patterson]

Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that federal law always overides state law where there is a conflict?

I am not absoutely sure of this but I think its right.

This could make it a bit easier to lobby for an exclusion.

How would this effect overseas purchasers though?

And if overseas purchasers still can't buy them then does it make it viable for Biante (or anyone else) to produce these models anyway.

I personally, am waiting for the Brock/Richards A9X models, but if they don't have the M... stickers, then I don't want them cause they'll be below expectations and will probably be unrecognizable.

It really is pathetic when a company can't produce an exact model of something. Besides, I've been watching motorsport for as long as I can remember, and I have seen more than my fair share of tobacco advertising, and guess what, I'm a non-smoker.

Maybe the pollies should put that in their pipe and smoke it!

Or not...

Maybe we should dig holes in our backyard and lay in them until we get what we want, or maybe we should just start bugging the appropriate federal minister.

Sorry, I may have got slightly over-excited.

We are missing out on some great models though.

[jager]

Hi Biante

Would it be possible to reproduce the relevent section of the Govt Act which prohibits the sale (and display ?) of tobacco liveried models somewhere on this website. I appreciate the act is probably a lengthy document but assume there is one or two key paragraphs that will help us collectors better understand the situation with such models.

[watties]

0

[admin]

Before you take your car out on the track, I would suggest you clear it with the Government...they set the rules, not the tobacco industry.

If you think that the tobacco company will say it is OK to display the vehicle, ask them to put it in writing! Bet they won't.

Not trying to put a damper on things, but as a collector, I am sure you would rather buy more models than pay a fine!

[watties]

0

[thekid_600]

I think it's pretty safe to assume that banning Tobacco Sponsorship on models are a load of crap. Everyone pretty much agrees. These are NOT toys. Just because they have doors and 4 wheels, and they can be carried around, doesn't mean they're toys. How many of you out there have given one of your 1:18s to your kids to "play" with?? Even if it's the dodgiest model, I wouldn't.
Man, this takes out the possibilities of Biante producing the Group A "Big Bangers". They had a lot of tobacco sponsorship on them.....

[the_goldie]

I have been reading all the responses to Tobacco advertising on our so called "TOY" cars. Why then can we display Alochol sponsorship on them eg. Tooheys and VB?
I am confused... I guess its the same reason why we see adds for VB while watching the V8 Supercars and no adds for smoking?

[thekid_600]

goldie - the law believes that booze is a necessity while cigarettes isnt. stupid, but isnt that what half the law is all about?
they had better not take ou alcohol sponsorship as well........

[chups]

correct me if im wrong but arent jigsaw puzzles considered toys??

i do believe the '40 years, the great race' jigsaw has the HDT cars with full M**lb**o paint job, (although i think it has been digitally removed for the 50 yrs of holden motorsport puzzle) and the Longhurst B**s*n & H**g*s sierra aswell. how come they can get away with it?

i also think we should be able to have the decals on the cars if they are in closed boxes like the clubsport and have a warning on the box, and not be sold to persons under 18 then it cant influence kids.

just my thoughts.
-Chups-

[v8coupe]

would be a good idea chups, show id before buying the model.
Either one of us collectors should get into government, then one day change the law(toys to replica's or something), i wish. Or get someone high up, addicted to these models too.

Doesn't really matter, there is someone out there making the decals for us. So I guess we still get the car as raced in the end.
Bring out the HDT's, i don't mind buying the decals seperate.

[chups]

my friends dad is tryin to get into politics, maybe ill just pull out some old photos when he gets in and see what i can do. bribery seems to do wonders :)

[SmartyMarty]

...come on say it!!!
MARLBORO.......BENSON & HEDGES......
is this forum a toy or why is everybody afraid to name cigarette brands?????
MARLBORO MARLBORO MARLBORO MARLBORO.......;)

[Bangkok Bob]

Dammit SmartyMarty....you made me light up...doesn't help that I can't get B & H in Thailand so have to smoke Marlboro!!;)

[sboland]

You fellas are cracking me up,HAHAHAHA:)

[Highlander]

What year did the law change Admin?,
Dinkums and Model cars Australia with those French Made A9Xs all had Malboro markings on them when new.

[admin]

Originally posted by Highlander
What year did the law change Admin?,
Dinkums and Model cars Australia with those French Made A9Xs all had Malboro markings on them when new.

1985 in WA..progressively from then on in other states.

Some people don't seem to worry about this or getting licenses etc, but I do.

Like I have said many times before,...I would rather a HDT A9X without Marlboro on it than no model at all.

[v8coupe]

I look forward to seeing the HDT toranas and commodores.

[thekid_600]

this is ridiculous........ why does model cars have to be restricted by dodgy tobacco sponsorship laws? whats wrong with a scaled replica of a model? so they ban tobacco sponsorship on small model cars, but allow tobacco advertising posters the size of a house to be put up on a busy train station platform? WELL DONE! lots of sense there!!
i pray for the day i get my VK Marlboro commodore. yes, thats right - MARLBORO! shove it in their faces!!!! :mad: :mad:

[ET351]

Good point, thekid_600;

I don't see too many kids in school uniforms hanging around model retailers, staring in the windows looking for inspiration to light up. But I've seen hundreds on railway platforms, bus stops, etc etc

We all know this law is a joke. I thought chups suggestion (closed box & over 18 ID etc) was a good one, or as some else suggested, separate sealed decal kit enclosed.

Lets face it, we true collectors want authenticity!

Cheers, ET

[WESTY]

Admin

Would you guys be breaking laws buy doing the decals yourselfs and selling them as a seperate item.
You wouldnt have to show, they could be in a sealed pack,
just say missing decals to suit whatever car.
And they could only be purchased through you guys.

Would this be a crime
If not is it worth the thought.

:D