Brock Collection

[ferrari fan]

I just lined up the cars so far issued in the 1/18 scale Peter Perfect Brock collection and it is a rather nice one at that.
One FORD in it!!
Then I started to count the winners, (9) and I came to 2 so far!!
this means that there are still at least 7 more to look forward to!!

[jsr555]

Funny you should mention that, I have just been searching thru the Brock collection and I reckon it will easily top 50 cars, even more. They haven't even touched the 80's yet.
A friend of mine (Holden nut) has a real mix bag of cars and he wanted to start on a theme. I recommened part of the Brock collection. To me the real Brock Cras are the Bathurst cars from 1969 to 1997, 28 cars and that is what I recommended he collect. Those cars would look pretty impressive and really sum up PB's carrer. And only 10 have been released.
regards

[fordmad17]

Don't forget Brockie drove the BMW and I wonder if they do the Monza Sports sedan {I loved that car} and the Repco around Australia Commodore
Cheers

[Mark H-M]

I thought the earlier BMW (3.0 CSi I think) he raced at LeMans might get made considering Moffat's has been made. I really don't care what gets built, however, they are all fantastic models and slowly I'm throwing away my cheap Tamiya kits built over the years and replacing them.

[fordmad17]

Yep Brockie drove the BMW M3 in the 1988 season in Mobil colours before going to the Seirra.

[Mark H-M]

I was referring to the BMW he drove in the early 80s, think it was '81

[Crowey05]

It was the 1976 Le Mans 24hr he drove with Brian Muir and some other fella that escapes my mind. The car didn't finish but was leading its class at one stage.

[Mark H-M]

Crikey was it that long ago?

[V8SS]

Originally posted by fordmad17
Yep Brockie drove the BMW M3 in the 1988 season in Mobil colours before going to the Seirra.

I'd like to see the M3 made. It would look good alongside the other Mobil sponsored cars - Sierra, VN, VP (when these are eventually made)

[Chriso]

All Brock cars are welcome....


Originally posted by jsr555
To me the real Brock Cras are the Bathurst cars from 1969 to 1997
......but that's the sight i long too see! :-)

[Mark H-M]

I've often thought that, for a period since 1987, PB has been in the wrong car at the wrong time. Look at it, the M3 never covered itself in glory in 1988 (despite the Pepsi 300 win). Had he have switched straight from Holden to the Sierra I believe he would have been as dominant as the Shell Sierras. Again the switch back to Holden with LP when the Commodore was truly out-classed. Let's not even talk about Advantage Racing!!

Things really started loking up when back with the Holden Factory team, and if Crennan had not have been there PB would have another 2 ATCC titles. John Crennan is a mean-spirited individual with a big problem

That's my 2 cents worth

[wayno]

Originally posted by Mark H-M
Things really started loking up when back with the Holden Factory team, and if Crennan had not have been there PB would have another 2 ATCC titles. John Crennan is a mean-spirited individual with a big problem

I find it extremely difficult to disagree with that statement.
I love reading the discussion in a thread like this as it makes you realise just how many race cars PB actually drove over the course of his career.
I'm starting to wonder if the Brock collection will ever have an end? Personally I hope not as I would love to see models pf all these cars mentioned made (plus a heap more).

[Mark H-M]

Thank you Wayno, it's amazing to think back and state that HRT would not have been the force they are today without the arrival of PB and his Mobil money. Apparently HRT had little in the way of cash-paying sponsors. Incredible that Crenno was waging such a personal vendetta against PB, I think envy got involved somewhere?

Remember the fiascos that HRT used to have? Buckets of water over the pit wall to clean oil!!! Wayne Gardhner crashing everything every week, Neil Crompton's team jumping on the bonnet to close it after yet another prang, Walkinshaw's suspension collapsing....the list goes on

[Chriso]

The one i offen ponder on...is the VS 1997 car, the 3 cars that have really court the hearts of many is without a doubt the 72 XU-1 (first win), 79 A9X (6 lap win blow-out)and the 84 VK (well, need a say more), but with the 97 VS starting on pole, in the hands of Skaife and Brock in his retirement year and potentialy becoming his 10th and last win, this nation would have gone into melt down.

Now that Skaife has the same god-like status as Brock for Holden fans could or would this 97 car too have had same status as the 72,79,84?.....i'd like too think so!

You only have to look as far as to the 2003 24hr Monaro car and see the populaty that is fast becoming of this car. While yes Brock was only one of four drivers (and lets not forget get that unbelievable climax to the finish with Murph and Tander), but i think it shows how much we long for that 10th Brock win. Not for a minute am i saying its the same....but it was still sweet!

Long live the King of the mountain!!!

[VXfan]

Have to admit the '97 VS is one of my favourites.I reckon it would hold the same esteem as the '72,'79 and '84 if it were not for the other 2 'farewell appearances' in '02 and '04.
I only have the '02 as I have a liking for VX commodores (surprise,surprise):)

[Crowey05]

The more Brock cars the better I reckon :D.

[wayno]

I don't care what anyone says. The 97 is the Brock farewell car in my eyes. Standing at the dipper on race day watching Brock stick it to the field was something I'll never forget.
When the car went out was one of the saddest moments of my life. The leadup was brilliant though. The emotion that day was incredible on the mountain (and I certainly was not immune).
I still get scratchy in the throat when I watch my "Peter Brock-The Legend" video and they show the split screen of his last drives. The speech by Jon Davidson from Sandown is wonderful too.

[Mark H-M]

I feel the same way. As soon as 05 died in 1997 I bawled my eyes out and then we left...pretty mature reaction:)

[Moffat Fan]

Originally posted by Chriso
Now that Skaife has the same god-like status as Brock......

What a joke. What is it they say about "Worshiping FALSE Gods"

Skaife is not in the same class of human being let alone "God Like":mad:

[VXfan]

I dont think that Chriso was comparing Skaifey to anyone,just implying that to some die-hard HRT fans,he has an almost 'god-like' status.
There is no comparison between Skaifey and Brock in my opinion and I am one of the die-hard HRT fans!

[Chriso]

Originally posted by Moffat Fan
What a joke. What is it they say about "Worshiping FALSE Gods"

Skaife is not in the same class of human being let alone "God Like":mad:
Yes...how right you are, what has Skaife ever done for anyone, lets face it if it wasn't for Richo no-one would of ever even heard of the name of Skaife at Bathurst, and all those people who line up for hours at each round to get his autograph and meet him, are really there to see his devil horns and pitch fork!
(sarcasm off)

Moffat Fan (being for key words here) - i am truly sorry if i have offended you of anyone else here with my use of the the term "god-like".

As an Atheist myself (what is it they say about "atheist's" - if they don't believe in a god, then they'll believe in anything) i chose to worship in motorsport, and like in all regions we need a figure-head, and like all religions that re-write their belief manuals every other week, i too have to go with the times. While i'd like to spend this weekend at Barbagello worshiping Brocky i guess i'll have to go with my figure-heads of the day, being Skaife and Lowndes...it pays to have and even spread ;-)

The Biante Forums is our church, after all is this not why we are all here, if not we could always tune into CNN for the latest and greatest installment of what is the "wacko-jacko circus" ;-)

I hope all can see the funny side, after all we are here for a good time, not for a long time :-)

PS...i still love yah Brocky!!! your have and always will be No 1, others will always be in your shadow.

On topic - a car i'm looking forward too is the Volvo 850 thats been lurging in the FAQ list for a while now. Does anyone know if any company has made a 1:18 of the Vectra that could be used for the Brock ride?

[Aaron]

Hello all. Just saw these earlier:

“and if Crennan had not have been there PB would have another 2 ATCC titles. John Crennan is a mean-spirited individual with a big problem�

and

“Incredible that Crenno was waging such a personal vendetta against PB, I think envy got involved somewhere?�


And as a younger fan of the sport, I don’t know the details of this “rift�, can someone please explain it to me?

[Chriso]

While i myself find it hard to explain in a few words on a forum (others may will be able to help you out)...what i will say is,

Buy these 2 books,

Bev Brock - Living with a legend,
This one will give you a good insight into his personal side with regards to racing, life, his fans, his and her up-bringing.

Bill Tuckey - The rise & fall or peter brock,
This one will give you a good insight into his attiude with regards to racing, HDT cars, Holden and GM, the cut troat world of the car business and aslo his relationship with the legend that is John Harvey.

One will paint him as a Legend and the other will paint him as a Fool. If you keep an open mind of both sides of the story, the truth is somewhere in the middle. As a young fan i strongly reconmend you read these books as it is a great part of our aussie motorsport foke law! :-)

[Aaron]

Thanks chriso. I do actually own and have read “The Rise and Fall of Peter Brock�. Although it has been a while since I read it, I don’t really remember much being said about john crennan specifically.

Guess I’ll have to get it back from my stepdad. (As a lifelong fan of “the King� as we both call him, he still hasn’t been able to bring himself to read it!)

[mick xu1]

Bathurst 97, I was just getting on the bus to go up the Mountain, when I heard the news Brock & Skaife were out...I have never been so disappointed in my life as I was at that moment.. just numb, and I could not give rats who won the race after that.

With regards to comparing drivers with other drivers is ridiculers there will never be another Peter Brock,nor Skaife, lowndes, Ambrose or anyone else I like drivers for who they are as individuals....comparing old and new drivers is only trying to hang on to the past.

Take time out to look around now..... it's tomorrows history.

[TBVX05]

Im glad Crennan is out of HRT. He should not have been there in the first place. He was the dictator who scared Lowndes away in what was a dream team of 'Skaife/Lowndes'! :mad:


Brock / Skaife / Lowndes are no gods but they're great racers and great blokes that drive, and have driven, for Holden! I just hope Lowndes comes back to where he belongs.... :cool:

[ferrari fan]

Crennan might have had to comply with the unwritten rule of;
No driver is bigger than the brand they are driving.
History has put light to this.

[inter]

Originally posted by ferrari fan
Crennan might have had to comply with the unwritten rule of;
No driver is bigger than the brand they are driving.
History has put light to this.




I dont think that Brock is bigger than Holden, and this is coming from a Ford fan.

I will probably get lampooned for this but i dont see what is the fuss about Peter Brock.
He probably was the most naturally gifted touring car driver australian has ever had ( norm Beechy and Craicg Lowndes are up there). He was very savy with the media and he very good with fans and spectators.

Looking back just recently to full coverage bathurst videos of the early eightys and listen to him speack you could sense an intelligence and aura that he had ( much better than today crop). But so did many others back then. Bond,Morris,Moffat all spoke with great intelligence.
Having said that he did not come across as a geniune good bloke.( and i have met him twice ) He seemed to have an agenda all the time. So did his counterparts at that time.

My humble conclusion is that most of the drivers back then were more rounded people with a great general knowlege but were all seeking limelite. Brock had it and all others tried to take it away.

I remebmer Brock has a great driver, proffesional outlook and determined character, but i do not personally look up to him and admire him. (my opinion)

Regards inter

[daggy]

excuse me "moffat fan"
Do u believe Peter Brock is a god!?
I agree skaife is not a god at the moment and probably will never be, but do u think that brock and moffat are equally 'god like'?
Although i am a holden fan i think that brock kinda out weights moffat in the 'god like' stakes!

[ferrari fan]

Originally posted by inter
I dont think that Brock is bigger than Holden, and this is coming from a Ford fan.

I will probably get lampooned for this but i dont see what is the fuss about Peter Brock.
He probably was the most naturally gifted touring car driver australian has ever had ( norm Beechy and Craicg Lowndes are up there). He was very savy with the media and he very good with fans and spectators.

Looking back just recently to full coverage bathurst videos of the early eightys and listen to him speack you could sense an intelligence and aura that he had ( much better than today crop). But so did many others back then. Bond,Morris,Moffat all spoke with great intelligence.
Having said that he did not come across as a geniune good bloke.( and i have met him twice ) He seemed to have an agenda all the time. So did his counterparts at that time.
*****
It seems to me from your reaction that you do not get the gist of what I am trying to say.
First of all ;Please, lets keep it civil and not result in a slagging match.
Not aimed at you Inter, but the likes of the post under you.
Enzo Ferrari, Frank Williams and the like have had this "no driver is better/more popular than the works car that they are driving and the factor that the brand is dependant on the driver.
2 examples could be named in Holdens case: Peter Brock & Craig Lownes.
Maybe this might be helpfull in pointing out what I am trying to say*****

My humble conclusion is that most of the drivers back then were more rounded people with a great general knowlege but were all seeking limelite. Brock had it and all others tried to take it away.

I remebmer Brock has a great driver, proffesional outlook and determined character, but i do not personally look up to him and admire him. (my opinion)

Regards inter

My reply is somehow in the middle of it??

[Moffat Fan]

Originally posted by daggy
excuse me "moffat fan"
Do u believe Peter Brock is a god!?
I agree skaife is not a god at the moment and probably will never be, but do u think that brock and moffat are equally 'god like'?
Although i am a holden fan i think that brock kinda out weights moffat in the 'god like' stakes!

In the context of this discussion yes I do. Whilst my call sign is Moffat Fan I am a fan of all types of Motorsport ( except Drag Racing which is really an expensive form of premature ejaculation / five seconds and it's all over:D ).

My memorabilia and model collection covers all eras of Australian Touring Cars and is highlighted by a fairly equal collection of Moffat and Brock, of whom on their day I consider equal combatants.

It also includes large amounts of Johnson, Murphy, Seton, Richards, Perkins and Ambrose.

I am an enormous fan of the skills these guys have on the track and their ability to promote their image and their sport on and off the track.

Skaife undoubtable has the on track skills but there it ends.

At age 10 I watched my first motor race, Bathurst 1970 and it was won by, A Moffat in a Ford Falcon. So from then on I was hooked and by 1972 you were either a Moffat/ Ford fan or a Brock/ Holden fan. There were really only two choices! Now the badges are the same but there are more drivers to choose from.

By 1975 I was helping out on race days at Lakeside and Surfers Paradise with Moffat and Richards with my Brother in Law who was With Ford. I have kept contact with a lot of the guys from back then and now and catch up with them when I am fortunate enough to be at a circuit around the country.

Yes I am a Ford Fan and, yes I am a Moffat Fan but I enjoy my sport both on and off the track with an open mind and BOTH EYES OPEN. Lets face it I race an HQ Holden in HRT colours (the 97 blue and white variety. It could never be red as I am also a Tottenham supporter but that’s a different argument)

Of the current day drivers I rate one up there with Brock and Moffat for their driving talent and off track promotion of their sport, for the love of the sport and that is Craig Lowndes. Let’s face it though, with Brocky as mentor he had great teacher.


Motorsport Fan
(Moffat Fan)

[sleepy]

when it comes to talent everyone seems to forget jim richards..although i suppose he is a kiwi.. i would back him on a wet circuit against anyone..

[biante1478]

Originally posted by sleepy
when it comes to talent everyone seems to forget jim richards..although i suppose he is a kiwi.. i would back him on a wet circuit against anyone..

My read on this is that Richards does not have a lot of loyal fans, because he has never shown any loyalty to any brand.

[ferrari fan]

Originally posted by biante1478
My read on this is that Richards does not have a lot of loyal fans, because he has never shown any loyalty to any brand.

Gentleman Jim has been VERY loyal to Blacktop Motorsport and did not have the continued support to be able to stay with one brand.
The variety of cars and events this Gentleman has succesfully competed in and the lenght of time it spans is truely amazing, jet he can freely walk and talk in pitlane without being mobbed by authografh hunters:confused: Lucky him.
Moffat,Brock, J. Richards are in the same league in Motorracing skill and ability.
Just My opinion.

[toad]

We competed with Jim last week in Targa Tas. He was the fastest 2wd car in the attrocious conditions narrowly being beaten by 2 4wd cars. On Monday morning after the event he caught the first flight out of Hobart at 6am to Melb, grabbed his wife and they jumped in the semi trailer which the two of them drove to Perth...aiming for Port Augusta for Monday night.....so he could race his other Porsche at Barbagallo. If thats not dedication to motorsport, especially given he has been doing the same for 30 years then I don't know what is.

For the last 10 years Jim has been a staunchly loyal Porsche driver. Outside of his odd V8 supercar appearance I can't thnk of another brand of car he has raced since the early 90's.

[ferrari fan]

In 1991 he drove a GTR at Bathurst 1000 and won.
In 1992 he drove a GTR at Bathurst 1000 and won.
In 1997 he drove an 850 at Bathurst 2ltr rain race and won.
In 2002 he drove a GM at Bathurst 1000 and won.
The man is another legend and not finnished at all

[wayno]

Well I, for one, am a massive fan of Jim Richards. The guy has to be one of the most talented drivers to ever turn a wheel in this country (if not THE most talented). The guy can drive anything in any conditions and be fearfully competitive. I can't wait to see him back in the second HRT Commodore at Bathurst. With the pressure off him through not carrying someones title hopes I think he will be right there.
Richards and Courtney will nearly be the car I'm cheering for on Sunday as I'm a big fan of both these guys.
I'd also like to know what Motorsport magazine in the UK was thinking leaving Richo out of their list of the greatest Touring Car drivers of all time. I thought he would have been a walk in.

[toad]

I forgot about the Volvo in 97. I think that race he diced with Steven in a Nissan for the last 20 or so laps and just beat him out.

[ferrari fan]

P. Brock could not get used to the frontwheel drive character of this lawnbowling express, he walked away from it.
Jim jumped into it and belted the crettin on the winners dias.
What a race that was.
There was not a dry eye in Bathurst as it was raining ;)

[Sats]

Jim is sort of like Jim Clark, in that both can jump into any car
and drive the wheels of it and be successful. I admire Jim alot even
if I don't follow him that intensley. The only problem I have is that
I hope he doesn't win Bathurst anymore because he's getting too
close to PB's tally.

He's sort of the quiet achiever. He's done some great things over
the past couple of years but doesn't get the recognition that he
would get if it was in a V8 Supercar. In fact I am sure he would
put to shame some of the so-called heros in the V8's now if given
the chance.

[jsr555]

I just picked up a Brock/Skaife 1997 VS in 1/18, is it just me or did Biante over-do-it on the de-mister (??) on the front widescreen, it is very prominent. ????

[wayno]

I must admit that nothing would please me more than to see James Courtney and Jim Richards win Bathurst.
James Courtney in a Holden full time would make me a very happy man. The kid is sensational.

[Chriso]

Hi guys...wow what another action packed weekend of V8's that was (its a pity we don't have the water over here to turn that sand pit into grass). Good time had by all!

Firstly - Sorry Moffat Fan for my opening sarcastic remark. No-one likes to be mocked at face to face and that certainly doesn't give me the right to be doing it from behind a keyboard. As they say...two wrongs don't make a right, so once again i apologize :-) Brock & Skaife are certainly no gods (after all, that go's against my athiesm,lol) it was just a figure of speach and i should of said hero's. I'm learning slowly to open that second eye but i really like my drags ;-) ok....moving on!

My first and long lasting thought that started me off as a Holden fan was when i was about 7, a fellow football friends dad used to pick me up on the weekends in his decked-out Sandman p/van to take us boys to the footy and i always remember sitting in the back with the top tailgate open, listerning to that thumping V8 thinking is the coolest car in the world.

The first time i saw Brock was on tv in 1980 and for me it was PB for Holden or DJ for Ford. I was born Oct/72, so i guess it was fate for me to be Holden and Brock all the way. I'm a proud owner of a Nov/72 LJ 2door but i fitted a 92 VP EFI V6, Turbo 700 back in 1994(sadly she's parked up at present with a bent front end, bloody roos).

While FF and Nick have the ability to say so much with so few words, i sadly tend to be a bit long-winded and probably bore the s**t out of everyone,lol....so why would i think that Skaife has a similer hero's status as Brock for HRT fans(not all)....well here go's.

For me Peter has always been the face of Holden and with his return to HRT, i was very happy that he would be spending his last years where he belonged. As we all know Craig is arguably the most conplete package to come along in years. Shame he left HRT but i'm sure he has his reasons and i don't for a minute think any less of him, the guy has class all the way. For me HDT and when HRT have always been my following and now Mark has the reigns, and not just as the #1 driver in HRT but also he's the face of Holden like Peter was. He's involved in HSV car styling like Peter was with HDT. He's won Bathurst with Jim 3 times like Peter has. He has also become the owner of HRT (while yes he probably only payed $1 for it to sort out the those issues 2years ago with Tom's troubles) like Peter did with HDT. I can't but help see the parallels between Mark and Peter for me as a Holden fan. No their not the same, but their the same if you know what i mean.

While we like to call Brocky..."Peter Perfect" i'm not silly enough to ignore the fact that this has not always been the case. The spilt between Peter and Holden didn't happen for no reason and no doubt his attitude had a lot to with this, as FF said "no one man is bigger than the brand" (but i tell'yah, he comes pretty close) and while Peter came back to Holden i'm sure Holdens attitude was a bit of "cutting off their own nose to spite their own face" with regards to where Peter stood while back with HRT. So do we condemn Peter for the bad times....hell no! You have to take the man for all that he is!.
Which brings me to Mark, while yes he can come across quite arrogant sometimes, but no more than alot of the other guys in the field and unfortunatly this has become the nature of the beast that is todays V8's. I think he has a genuine feel for his fans. He would be silly not too, after all he is to many as Mr Holden at present. Like others he too has copped alot of flak. But do we too condemn him for starting out in Nissan and making our Holdens look silly....hell no! You give him the #1 job! hehe! ;-)

Some good points have made about long term brand association,
Most people here would be awear of many drivers, sleepy made the a comment about Jim as to why alot forget him. It can't be that he's a Kiwi, Moffat was a Canadain. These days when i think of Jim, i think of Porsche, so i think that long term brands really stick in peoples minds. While we all make a fuss about Peter, when you look at Jim's record you have to ask yourself...what can't his guy drive and is there anything left he hasn't won already. Jim's the best!

Sometimes some people say i like all the drivers and i don't care who wins as long as its a good race, and thats fair enough. But i think thats a little numb for me,if you follow a footy team or driver with a passion you get to experience all the highs and lows (thats why grown men cryed in 97). In todays world we trade footy players and drivers switch teams all for the $$$ (not always,but more often than not) this is why in alot of sports that some the true great's can be easily forgotten, while others will live on.

Just some random thoughts i had while waiting for the kettle too boil! :-)

Cheers,
Chris

[Martin Thomas]

Well siad Chriso, some good points.. A lot of the public perception of drivers is to do with thier pursuit of the limelight.. Peter Brock has made a brand name of himself through his off track work as well as his on track performance. Jim Richards comes across as a different character all together. He seems more private and a trade off of that would be less "popularity" to the general public.. Some how I don't think it would worry him too much.

[V8SS]

Does anyone have a list of Jims achievements. I think it would make interesting reading. I know he's won Targa Tasmania 7 times.
It's amazing to think that he's not referred to in the same breath as people like Johnson, Moffat and Brock but I'm sure his motor racing sucsess would suggest he should be.

[Moffat Fan]

Originally posted by Chriso
Firstly - Sorry Moffat Fan for my opening sarcastic remark. No-one likes to be mocked at face to face and that certainly doesn't give me the right to be doing it from behind a keyboard. As they say...two wrongs don't make a right, so once again i apologize :-) Brock & Skaife are certainly no gods (after all, that go's against my athiesm,lol) it was just a figure of speach and i should of said hero's. I'm learning slowly to open that second eye but i really like my drags ;-) ok...Cheers, Chris

No apology necessary Chris. And thanks for the post it makes a great read.:)