Queensland 300

[Leigh]

First practice times are just in...

1 2 Holden Racing Team Mark Skaife Holden Commodore VZ 5000 42 39 1:10.2930*
2 1 Pirtek Racing Marcos Ambrose Ford Falcon BA 5000 40 36 1:10.3105 0:00.0175
3 888 Team Betta Electrical Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon BA 5000 41 38 1:10.4507 0:00.1577
4 16 HSV Dealer Team Garth Tander Holden Commodore VZ 5000 40 34 1:10.5852 0:00.2922
5 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon BA 5000 40 40 1:10.6122 0:00.3192
6 88 Team Betta Electrical Steve Ellery Ford Falcon BA 5000 39 34 1:10.7633 0:00.4703
7 17 Westpoint Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon BA 5000 39 35 1:10.8262 0:00.5332
8 6 Ford Performance Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BA 5000 39 28 1:10.9568 0:00.6638
9 18 Westpoint Racing Glenn Seton Ford Falcon BA 5000 41 39 1:10.9644 0:00.6714
10 11 Team Perkins Racing Steven Richards Holden Commodore VY 5000 41 41 1:11.0250 0:00.7320

(full grid here (http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?24/07/2005.QRI.P8))

Interesting to see bot DJR cars quick out of the box, and Toddler buried in the pack...although it is only the first practice session.

Don't forget your Finishline tips...

Cheers

[Kenseth17]

Thanks for those times Leigh. I was just wondering what was happening there today.

[john]

Greg Murphy just can't get it together. Another year goooooone!

[TBVX05]

his waitning for Bathurst again after his usual win in NZ! :D

[HSVLOVER]

lownds will win this round

[HSV GOD]

SHOW ME THE HSV............SHOW ME THE FORD LOVER!!!!!!!!!

[Kiwiracing]

Well I was out there today, bit wind blown and overcast but good to see the whole field on the track, found my camera doesn't like the low light that much!

Good to meet up with John, if anyone wants to meet up a good place would be Motorfocus's tent selling models next to the Ford Trailer (I think), Dimitri from MF has said that he'll give 5% discount to Biante Forum members who come and see him at the track.

Back there with the family tomorrow.

Cheers
Kiwiracing

[inter]

Originally posted by john
Greg Murphy just can't get it together. Another year goooooone!


Murphy will struggle to win a championship, he is always inconsistent.

inter

[HRT 1-2]

Originally posted by john
Greg Murphy just can't get it together. Another year goooooone!

It's Friday practice for %$^& sake, starting to sound like the poms;)

[Acj428]

bit wind blown and overcast

Yeh! I had trouble with the focusing with my gear as well. Damn cold too! But still manged some good shots! Burnt up 8Gb of CF memory shooting raw files on the digital :eek:

I noticed Murphy didn't come out until the very last 1/2 hr of a 2 hr session, and was in the pits for half that as well...???

[Moffat Fan]

Originally posted by lcfp2297
First practice times are just in...

1 2 Holden Racing Team Mark Skaife Holden Commodore VZ 5000 42 39 1:10.2930*
2 1 Pirtek Racing Marcos Ambrose Ford Falcon BA 5000 40 36 1:10.3105 0:00.0175
3 888 Team Betta Electrical Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon BA 5000 41 38 1:10.4507 0:00.1577
4 16 HSV Dealer Team Garth Tander Holden Commodore VZ 5000 40 34 1:10.5852 0:00.2922
5 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon BA 5000 40 40 1:10.6122 0:00.3192
6 88 Team Betta Electrical Steve Ellery Ford Falcon BA 5000 39 34 1:10.7633 0:00.4703
7 17 Westpoint Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon BA 5000 39 35 1:10.8262 0:00.5332
8 6 Ford Performance Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BA 5000 39 28 1:10.9568 0:00.6638
9 18 Westpoint Racing Glenn Seton Ford Falcon BA 5000 41 39 1:10.9644 0:00.6714
10 11 Team Perkins Racing Steven Richards Holden Commodore VY 5000 41 41 1:11.0250 0:00.7320

(full grid here (http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?24/07/2005.QRI.P8))

Interesting to see bot DJR cars quick out of the box, and Toddler buried in the pack...although it is only the first practice session.

Don't forget your Finishline tips...

Cheers

6 out of ten Queensland based cars.

There is no substitute for local knowledge!

[Kiwiracing]

Originally posted by Acj428

I noticed Murphy didn't come out until the very last 1/2 hr of a 2 hr session, and was in the pits for half that as well...???

Engine woes I believe.

Cheers
Kiwiracing

[john]

Originally posted by inter
Murphy will struggle to win a championship, he is always inconsistent.

inter

I wouldn't go as far as saying Murphy is "inconsistent", he just doesn't have the same support that the Mark Skaifes & Marcos Ambroses of this world have.

[inter]

Originally posted by john
I wouldn't go as far as saying Murphy is "inconsistent", he just doesn't have the same support that the Mark Skaifes & Marcos Ambroses of this world have.



I not sure about that, I find him a great driver who rises to big occasions ie Bathurst, NZ Race and Sandown. I dont find him to be as consistant as skaife.


inter

[Goodwrench3]

Grid after shootout, top ten at least.
1 - Ambrose
2 - Lowndes
3 - Ingall
4 - T.Kelly
5 - Richo Jnr
6 - Skaife
7 - Ellery
8 - Tander
9 - Murphy
10 -Wilson

[Goodwrench3]

It's the fifth year in a row Ambrose has taken pole here.
He won last year, second to Ingall in '03.

[bigdave]

im uploading a cap of Mcleans massive porsche flip as i type for anyone interested.

[bigdave]

PM ME for a link because i swore and i dont wanna get banned

[Kenseth17]

Originally posted by Goodwrench3
It's the fifth year in a row Ambrose has taken pole here.
He won last year, second to Ingall in '03.

A good start to the weekend.Hopefully he and rusty can obtain a 1-2 for the race.

[brchi17]

interesting side note is that DJR has had all 3 cars in the top 10 at the Queensland 300 for the HPDC round

Race 1
1st Ba Falcon #71 Dean Canto
2nd Au Falcon #19 Will Davison
10th Ba Falcon #81 Grant Denyer

Race 2 (reverse grid)
3rd Au Falcon #19 Will Davison
5th Ba Falcon #71 Dean Canto
10th Ba Falcon #81 Grant Denyer

Interesting to note that Will Davison is running one of the old Au's & he's rather competitive, which looks good for his Bathurst campaign later in the year.

cheers. :)

[toddy05]

Hi all, I was out there yesterday (Saturday) and what a beautiful day God provided considering the rainy day friday was and the overcastness of today..
Just some comments and q's, how accessable do you think the drivers were in your case?

I found the ones I expected to be difficult to be overly welcoming and others were just burdened by the 'chore' of meeting with fans...
It took me nearly 4 hours to get my full set of weet bix cards signed but I did it and my son will thank me in many years time hopefully, otherwise it can be our retirement fund.....

I waited in line at the Ambrose area for what was scheduled to be a 10.15-10.45 session, he did not turn up til 10.30 but to his credit he kept signing well past the time he was down to go.

Ingall was supposed to be signing but was late and then spent most of his time talking in the background(not signing) to a Ten motorsport dude.

Ambrose had a rather (I thought) disinterested look on his face throughout the whole process, he doesn't seem to enjoy meeting and greeting his fans. He unceremoniously dumped my cards on his table despite the fact that my hands were in front of him and closer, he also slapped a kid's hat on his head in a similar way. This is not a whinge and gripe session but I just really noticed that many drivers seemed burdened and almost hiding from their fans. I guess Ambrose won't have to worry next year and beyond for a few years about fans wanting autographs, he'll be a small fish in a big sea.

Skaifey and Brighty were fantastic if you knew they were in their tent that is. Many fans were waiting at the end of the trucks and they just were not appearing so I walked up the front of the trucks near their tents/retreats and they saw me and especially came out for the signing and i must admit I did not expect them to. So well done boys I am very thankful.

Bargwanna was fantastic and chatty, he actually was there early and available outside his garage as was Larry Perkins and Jason Richards.

I spotted todd Kelly and stood nearby him near his tent/retreat and he saw me and when he had finished talking to the guy he was with he tried darting the other way but I managed to get him but again not very chatty and welcoming, same with Murphy.

I feel sorry for MacLean he commented that the year wasn't getting any better in fact it was going continually downhill.

Lowndes was jovial and welcoming.

Tander was great too.

It just amazes me that most drivers were only really making themselves available for their obligatory 45 min autograph session on the day and trying to hide from fans outside of that and if the hawkes (I mean fans) got them on their way it was an inconvenience.

I hope that V8 Supercars and its drivers do not go the way of F1 and elevate themselves beyond the paying people. After all if it wasn't for the fans, they wouldn't be where they are.

I had a fantastic time, missed both big crashes (the HPDC grid crash and the Porsche one) and did not spend much money so that was great.


One last tip don't wait at the garage or the truck for the drivers go up to where their retreat tent is at the front of the trucks....

[inter]

Originally posted by toddy05
Hi all, I was out there yesterday (Saturday) and what a beautiful day God provided considering the rainy day friday was and the overcastness of today..
Just some comments and q's, how accessable do you think the drivers were in your case?

I found the ones I expected to be difficult to be overly welcoming and others were just burdened by the 'chore' of meeting with fans...
It took me nearly 4 hours to get my full set of weet bix cards signed but I did it and my son will thank me in many years time hopefully, otherwise it can be our retirement fund.....

I waited in line at the Ambrose area for what was scheduled to be a 10.15-10.45 session, he did not turn up til 10.30 but to his credit he kept signing well past the time he was down to go.

Ingall was supposed to be signing but was late and then spent most of his time talking in the background(not signing) to a Ten motorsport dude.

Ambrose had a rather (I thought) disinterested look on his face throughout the whole process, he doesn't seem to enjoy meeting and greeting his fans. He unceremoniously dumped my cards on his table despite the fact that my hands were in front of him and closer, he also slapped a kid's hat on his head in a similar way. This is not a whinge and gripe session but I just really noticed that many drivers seemed burdened and almost hiding from their fans. I guess Ambrose won't have to worry next year and beyond for a few years about fans wanting autographs, he'll be a small fish in a big sea.

Skaifey and Brighty were fantastic if you knew they were in their tent that is. Many fans were waiting at the end of the trucks and they just were not appearing so I walked up the front of the trucks near their tents/retreats and they saw me and especially came out for the signing and i must admit I did not expect them to. So well done boys I am very thankful.

Bargwanna was fantastic and chatty, he actually was there early and available outside his garage as was Larry Perkins and Jason Richards.

I spotted todd Kelly and stood nearby him near his tent/retreat and he saw me and when he had finished talking to the guy he was with he tried darting the other way but I managed to get him but again not very chatty and welcoming, same with Murphy.

I feel sorry for MacLean he commented that the year wasn't getting any better in fact it was going continually downhill.

Lowndes was jovial and welcoming.

Tander was great too.

It just amazes me that most drivers were only really making themselves available for their obligatory 45 min autograph session on the day and trying to hide from fans outside of that and if the hawkes (I mean fans) got them on their way it was an inconvenience.

I hope that V8 Supercars and its drivers do not go the way of F1 and elevate themselves beyond the paying people. After all if it wasn't for the fans, they wouldn't be where they are.

I had a fantastic time, missed both big crashes (the HPDC grid crash and the Porsche one) and did not spend much money so that was great.


One last tip don't wait at the garage or the truck for the drivers go up to where their retreat tent is at the front of the trucks....


Great post Toddy05, Have wonderful day up there today.


Cheers inter

[AmonFan]

Great post Toddy. I have to agree with you on Jason Bright and Jason Richards, i did a charity Go Kart night with them on the Tuesday leading up to this weekend and they were great. Jamie Whincup, Greg Ritter and Steve Owen were also really good :).

I guess it depends how much is on your mind, i know myself i can be really chatty with mates at a race meet but other times if im under a bit of pressure and things are'nt going to plan im very distant, and i have done the avoidance trick myself, lol.

[toddy05]

Cheers mate, I am watching it at home today after church. I find saturday is the best day to go as the crowd is less, getting out of there afterwards is easier and more chance of getting close to the drivers. I gotta admit it is hard not being there for the race but at the cost it is getting to these days, it is money in my pocket to be in front of the box on Sunday....:)

[HSVLOVER]

I SAID IT!!!!!! GO LOWNDS

[ratbag-racing]

WTG Lowndes , a top drive !. And another win for the mighty Ford.

[diecastdude]

Originally posted by ratbag-racing
WTG Lowndes , a top drive !. And another win for the mighty Ford.

Saves saying it again

[wayno]

Well done to Craig. Top effort from Tander too I thought.

[A9Xer]

Have I missed something? Why is Tander posted as 1st place in the finishline competition???

[Leigh]

Originally posted by A9Xer
Have I missed something? Why is Tander posted as 1st place in the finishline competition???
You must have missed the previous round;)

The results in finishline are for Darwin, they havn't been updated for Qld yet...

Cheers

[lukey73]

Tander had a great race and was lucky not to have been over taken by Rusty on the last few laps. I was sitting near turn 1 and over the last few laps you could see GT sliding the car slighty into turn 1 and getting on the gas to get good drive off the corner.

It was a great race, pity i couldnt catch up with any of the forum members out there as i had kid ( i dont want to watch the race cars i want to go look around ) drama's.

I took a heap of photo's and will try and post a link shortly.

Luke

[V8SS]

What did everyone think of the Morris/Richards incident. That is certainly one dead Dodo.
Glad Jason was able to walk away from it but it was an exact carbon copy of Cameron McLeans Porsche rollover the previous day.

[Gan88]

That was no way Morris' fault.

It was a racing incident. I mean where could he go, there was a lump of concrete in front of him?

[Leigh]

Originally posted by Gan88
That was no way Morris' fault.

It was a racing incident. I mean where could he go, there was a lump of concrete in front of him?
As with another incident this year, a quick dab of the brakes BEFORE he turned right would have avoided the whole incident...

What exactly was Morris thinking when he decided to turn right in full knowledge that he would hit Richards...yes Richards should have left room, but Morris had more than one out...and being squeezed does not justify the following punt...:rolleyes:

[lukey73]

Originally posted by Gan88
That was no way Morris' fault.

It was a racing incident. I mean where could he go, there was a lump of concrete in front of him?

Where was the lump of concrete? If you watch any car during the race the racing line extends left into the area for another circuit layout they then move back over to the right hand side of the road.

I dont think Richards was moving over to the left quick enough for Morris who got a good run out of turn 3, Richards seems to want to stay on the right to keep the racing line for turn 4, And yes Gan88 i agree with you it was a racing incident! It's just a shame that the little piece of concrete could start something that did so much damage.

Luke

[lukey73]

Here (http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=vie wAllPhotos&albumID=403556821) are some photo's that i took at the QLD 300, i have a got a few of the Aussie Racing cars which is a great series with close tight racing.

Luke

[wayno]

What's the album called? The link is just to the sites homepage.

[xtreem2001]

Will AVESCO let Mr Morris off and call this a racing incident ??? If they do I would think Dumbrell has even more reason to spit chips over the NZ debacle. Morris admitted it was him or Richards and he chose the latter decision. That addmission makes him guilty of reckless driving in the least and should attract a stiff penalty.

Me thinks Morris is one of the chosen few though that will walk away without so much as a blemish on his driving record. That would be a very sad state of affairs given that a team now faces the task of building a new car and the driver who created that situation has admitted liability.

If only this was Yankee land. That way Dodo could sue Mr Morris for damages, send him broke and remove one of the mobile chicanes from V8's permanently. Oh, if only.

[wayno]

Originally posted by lukey73
Tander had a great race and was lucky not to have been over taken by Rusty on the last few laps.

I wouldn't call it luck Luke. I thought Garth did a terrific job to hold his position and showed more tenacity and grit in this race than he has done in his last two seasons at GRM.
Good to see him back!

[lukey73]

Originally posted by wayno
What's the album called? The link is just to the sites homepage.

When i do it work's :rolleyes: but its QLD 300. And yes i suppose your correct but Rusty did have very good pace in the last 10 laps and that what i was refering too.

[lukey73]

ok try this (http://community.webshots.com/user/lukekondys) that should work and its the QLD 300 file. :D

Luke

[toddy05]

Whilst the results of the Morris/Richards incident was a carbon copy of the Porsche accident from the day before, the initial catalyst (the one that led to them being forced to the kerb) was somewhat different I believe. I have heard Morris being quoted that he chose self preservation and from that 'chose' to turn into the Dodo car.

I always thought the middle pedal was of some benefit in this situation. I fail to see how choosing to turn into someone is acceptable even at risk to upsetting one's own rythm/race etc.

I will also say that it seems moreso this year than any other that all the cars were running very wide on the exits to that particular turn as well as the one onto the main straight, did anyone else notice that or was it just me.

I myself choose not to see it as a racing incident. It would have been a lot less dramatic had the kerb not been there but the result would still have been a big negative for Dodo whilst Morris covered himself sotospeak.

He did turn a pretty dramatic right coming out of the corner even if he did have a better run


BUT did he have a better run or did he overcook his entry forcing himself wide??????

[lukey73]

Originally posted by toddy05


BUT did he have a better run or did he overcook his entry forcing himself wide?????? [/B]

If he overcooked his entry he wouldnt have been able to take that line, IF you get the apex to that corner correct then to keep good traction you head for the middle of the access road and swing back to the right before you hit the kerb.

Luke

[brchi17]

on the Morris incident, if the cars stayed on the track rather than use a part of track which is essentially not part of the circuit then one could suggest that it neve would of happen.

Then again, it's one thing telling them not to use it, it another getting them to actually do it, I guess it's what makes them racers !!!

What I find amazing is that for all the years of competition at the track it’s never happened & then to have two carbon copies in two days is astounding.

cheers. :)

[Leigh]

Footage of the McLean Porsche flip are on the web now...

here (http://www.sherrinracing.com.au/index.html)

Note that Mclean drifts into the other Porsche and pivots across the front using his door...

Unlike the Morris incident where Morris put a whole lot of right lock on and clipped the rear of Richards car...

After that, the incidences were nearly identical...

[lukey73]

Originally posted by lcfp2297
Footage of the McLean Porsche flip are on the web now...

here (http://www.sherrinracing.com.au/index.html)

Note that Mclean drifts into the other Porsche and pivots across the front using his door...

...

Leigh

How from that angle can you tell that McLean drifts into the way of the other car? It is impossible to tell who was the at fault ( Mclean moving over or Reynolds turning him around ) The only way you could make a clearer decision on that would be to have a camera angle from behind both cars. Other wise its pure speculation.

Luke

[Leigh]

You are correct Luke, but I got the response I wanted...

You can not tell with the Porsches...so how can it be anything but a racing incident...

With the V8's you clearly see Morris turn into Richards with the camera footage available...and that makes it not a racing incident...

Maybe I should try for Barra next time;)

[lukey73]

Originally posted by lcfp2297
You are correct Luke, but I got the response I wanted...

You can not tell with the Porsches...so how can it be anything but a racing incident...

With the V8's you clearly see Morris turn into Richards with the camera footage available...and that makes it not a racing incident...

Maybe I should try for Barra next time;)

Liegh

I only commented on your post but since you have opened the flood gates here we go .

The footage available for the Morris/Richards accident show that yes Morris hit Richards in the right rear corner, as to who moved where we wont really now as only IPO as access to the incar footage.

The Mclean accident is inconclusive gievn the footage we have available.

As for you want to go fishing learn how to fish ! Have you ever driven on a race track? Ever driven a race car in race condition's ? I bet the answer to those 2 questions is a big NO. I have and can tell you its alot different making decisions on the track than sitting in an arm chair.

Luke

[lukey73]

Originally posted by lukey73
Liegh

I only commented on your post but since you have opened the flood gates here we go .

The footage available for the Morris/Richards accident show that yes Morris hit Richards in the right rear corner, as to who moved where we wont really now as only IPO as access to the incar footage.

The Mclean accident is inconclusive gievn the footage we have available.

As for you want to go fishing learn how to fish ! Have you ever driven on a race track? Ever driven a race car in race condition's ? I bet the answer to those 2 questions is a big NO. I have and can tell you its alot different making decisions on the track than sitting in an arm chair.

Luke

And having just watched the footage in slow on DVD there is no way that Jason Richards was going to make that straight. From the angle given he was going to hit that rumble strip which is on the left side of the road anyway, the only way he would have missed it is to have turned hard right.

[Leigh]

Originally posted by lukey73
Liegh

I only commented on your post but since you have opened the flood gates here we go .

The footage available for the Morris/Richards accident show that yes Morris hit Richards in the right rear corner, as to who moved where we wont really now as only IPO as access to the incar footage.

The Mclean accident is inconclusive gievn the footage we have available.

As for you want to go fishing learn how to fish ! Have you ever driven on a race track? Ever driven a race car in race condition's ? I bet the answer to those 2 questions is a big NO. I have and can tell you its alot different making decisions on the track than sitting in an arm chair.

Luke
Luke,

Apart from the footage on TV, read the PMM press release...Morris says he turned right!

Many cars hit that ripple strip straight on and survive...how many hit it at 90 degrees?

I suppose you know what I had for breakfast too!

Cheers

[lukey73]

Originally posted by lcfp2297
Luke,

Apart from the footage on TV, read the PMM press release...Morris says he turned right!

Many cars hit that ripple strip straight on and survive...how many hit it at 90 degrees?

I suppose you know what I had for breakfast too!

Cheers

Of course he turned right, what was he goinmg to turn left and take the short road to turn 6 ? If they hit that rumble strip straight on it sends them up very high on 2 wheels. Its not the rumble strip alone thats the problem, its that when they hit it and land on the grass the wheel will dig in and cause the rollovers.

And breakfast would be weetbix's me thinks!:D

If oyu are going to reference something then include the whole reference not that you seem to thinkn will improve your point.

Here is the whole quote by Paul Morris.

Paul Morris Quotes: "I didn't agree with the penalty. Jason Richards didn't have to run that wide. He should have left room for me and we both could have got through the corner. Unfortunately he kept pushing me wide. I was going to hit the kerb so I turned right because I had nowhere to go. Even if I had braked I would have hit the kerb. I had a choice of either hitting the kerb or turning right. I decided to turn right. When I turned we made contact. I didn't like what happened afterwards, but I think he could have prevented it if he had given me some room. The penalty put me a lap down so that ended any chance of a good result. It's disappointing because our car was quick for most of the race."


Luke

[Leigh]

Originally posted by lukey73
Paul Morris Quotes: "I didn't agree with the penalty. Jason Richards didn't have to run that wide. He should have left room for me and we both could have got through the corner. Unfortunately he kept pushing me wide. I was going to hit the kerb so I turned right because I had nowhere to go. Even if I had braked I would have hit the kerb. I had a choice of either hitting the kerb or turning right. I decided to turn right. When I turned we made contact. I didn't like what happened afterwards, but I think he could have prevented it if he had given me some room. The penalty put me a lap down so that ended any chance of a good result. It's disappointing because our car was quick for most of the race."
Let's just focus on that shall we...

Now when I've been driving (track, road, paddock or wherever else) with other vehicles etc around there are usually several options...hit brakes/accelerator OR turn OR a combination...

PM's decision process, hit ripple strip (rumble strip or whatever you want to call it), OR hit Richards...

What he chose is history...

What ever happened to hit brakes and turn right? Possibly may have still tagged Richards with similar repercussions, but would have shown the intent to avoid an incident!

Cheers

[lukey73]

Originally posted by lcfp2297
Let's just focus on that shall we...


What ever happened to hit brakes and turn right? Possibly may have still tagged Richards with similar repercussions, but would have shown the intent to avoid an incident!

Cheers

And what about the cars following PM or dont they count ? There were 4 other cars behind PM before the entered the straight so are you suggesting that PM should have turned braked hard and turned right into them ? Coz if you are then it goes to show how little you know about driving on a race track .

luke

[xtreem2001]

You guys seem to miss the most outstanding point to all this. Morris DID admit he made a decision to turn into Richards. Given the consequences I still dont see why he hasn't had a stiffer penalty applied in light of the NZ debacle.
His excuse about being cost any chance of a good result is null and void in monetary terms when you consider the damage he caused. If AVESCO is going to appear to be a proffessionally run outfit then he surely must cop at least a fine or suspended sentence for his part in the incident. Regardless of how you view the hows and whys Morris tagged Richards from behind.
Cast your minds back 12 months ago and Murphy copped a similar penalty for contact with Lowndes. The damage was minimal to both cars. How then do you explain that Morris is guilty of nothing more than what Murphy did evn though the result was far more catastrophic.
If you compare the driving record of Morris with Dumbrell there is not a lot of difference. Morris has had his fair share of "racing incidents" over the past few years. He was the first to whinge about Todd Kelly in NZ. stating that Kelly was reckless in his actions when he ran into the back of Morris at high speed. I think there are a few drivers in the V8 series at the moment who have far too much money and certainly not enough skill.

[bigdave]

heres a selection of my pix from qld raceway, not all are my best but i thought id share em anyway

http://ld300.fotopic.net/c628815.html

[lukey73]

Originally posted by xtreem2001
You guys seem to miss the most outstanding point to all this. Morris DID admit he made a decision to turn into Richards. Given the consequences I still dont see why he hasn't had a stiffer penalty applied in light of the NZ debacle.
His excuse about being cost any chance of a good result is null and void in monetary terms when you consider the damage he caused. If AVESCO is going to appear to be a proffessionally run outfit then he surely must cop at least a fine or suspended sentence for his part in the incident. Regardless of how you view the hows and whys Morris tagged Richards from behind.
Cast your minds back 12 months ago and Murphy copped a similar penalty for contact with Lowndes. The damage was minimal to both cars. How then do you explain that Morris is guilty of nothing more than what Murphy did evn though the result was far more catastrophic.
If you compare the driving record of Morris with Dumbrell there is not a lot of difference. Morris has had his fair share of "racing incidents" over the past few years. He was the first to whinge about Todd Kelly in NZ. stating that Kelly was reckless in his actions when he ran into the back of Morris at high speed. I think there are a few drivers in the V8 series at the moment who have far too much money and certainly not enough skill.

Coz you cant compare one incident with another from different tracks and different drivers, each has to be taken on its merit. When you start comparing one incident with another you get all sorts of opinion's about who was done wrong to whom and who's accident was worse.

Yes PM did turn into JR no disputing that, but if he hadnt of then he would have launched over that same rumble strip and could have caused more damage by coming back onto the track infront of the 4 cars behind causing more damge than that of JR's car.

The penalty issued was enough, as it was deemed a racing incident by the IPO it dropped PM down to 26th or now where position. I listened to Paul Weel's comments and he even said it was a 50/50 decision as to who was to blame. Racing drivers will always fight for that extra position thats what makes it so interesting, there are times when they choose the wrong decision and this time it was 2 drivers who caused and accident that put 1 of them out in a bad way.

As they say on the entry tickets " Motorsport is dangerous"

Luke

[Kiwiracing]

I missed the sports news but what is the legal action Richards is thinking about doing???????????

Cheers
Kiwiracing

[Kiwiracing]

I missed the sports news but what is the legal action Richards is thinking about doing???????????

Cheers
Kiwiracing

[wayno]

Only saw it in passing but I think they were talking about taking some form of legal action against Queensland Raceway.

[xtreem2001]

Luke,
I dont disagree with your comments but, surely there has to be some sort of parity in handing out penalties. Comparing both incidents is something any ardent race follower is entilted to do.
Dumbrell has every right to feel hard done by based on the Morris incident. Dumbrell was publicly belted by other team owners as a result of his part in N.Z. Morris on the other hand seems to have support from other drivers/teams based on his popularity.
If that is true then AVESCO can not appear to be bias and let this slide by just because Morris is a team owner and a popular one amongst the V8 fraternity.
Paul Weels comments were at best diplomatic and definately based on the fact that drivers are not allowed to create controversy this year.
The fact that Morris rang Richards Sunday night to see how he was feeling and then promptly launched into a full scale defence on how the incident was Richards fault suggests Morris is trying to lay the blame elsewhere.
My wife has a saying "Guilty men doth protest their innocence far too much". Her opinion is Morris - Guilty. And who is going to argue with a woman.

[Leigh]

Originally posted by lukey73
And what about the cars following PM or dont they count ? There were 4 other cars behind PM before the entered the straight so are you suggesting that PM should have turned braked hard and turned right into them ? Coz if you are then it goes to show how little you know about driving on a race track .

luke
...and you abuse me when I partially quote...at least I correctly quote...

You Win...:rolleyes:

[lukey73]

Originally posted by xtreem2001
Luke,
I dont disagree with your comments but, surely there has to be some sort of parity in handing out penalties. Comparing both incidents is something any ardent race follower is entilted to do.
Dumbrell has every right to feel hard done by based on the Morris incident. Dumbrell was publicly belted by other team owners as a result of his part in N.Z. Morris on the other hand seems to have support from other drivers/teams based on his popularity.
If that is true then AVESCO can not appear to be bias and let this slide by just because Morris is a team owner and a popular one amongst the V8 fraternity.
Paul Weels comments were at best diplomatic and definately based on the fact that drivers are not allowed to create controversy this year.
The fact that Morris rang Richards Sunday night to see how he was feeling and then promptly launched into a full scale defence on how the incident was Richards fault suggests Morris is trying to lay the blame elsewhere.
My wife has a saying "Guilty men doth protest their innocence far too much". Her opinion is Morris - Guilty. And who is going to argue with a woman.

The Dumbrell and Morris incidents are different, the Dumbrell incident had a car infront on the brakes! Thats why he got in so much trouble. End of Story on that one.

Lets Bring up Allan Grice hitting Longhurst at Winton in 1988 then, he got no penalty but he clearly rammed Longhurst in toi the centre padock on a wet track, should we go there as it is a very similar incident? No Why as YOU HAVE TO TAKE EVERY INCIDENT ON ITS MERIT.


We have only heard one side of the phone call story and at best you would PM was trying to do the right thing and see how JR was, With JR telling the story who knows what he said to PM ? This is where you have to careful believing every thing you read/see on tv when its only oine side of the story.

Luke

[Leigh]

http://www.xtramsn.co.nz/sport/0,,12021-4600387-300,00.html

After viewing this, I agree 100% with Luke, the (4?) cars behind Morris were far too close for him to hit the brakes and fall in behind Richards:rolleyes:

[the_goldie]

Did anybody else find the new sponsor on the WPS car funny -- Fish liquor :p

[VXfan]

Originally posted by the_goldie
Did anybody else find the new sponsor on the WPS car funny -- Fish liquor :p
Nowhere near as funny as David Besnard's driving :) (someone should tell him it helps to stay on the track)

[lukey73]

There were 4 guys behind me picking on that all day " here comes the fish licker again" got a bit annoying after 1 1/2 hrs.


And Leigh the 4 cars as best i can see are

24 Dumbrell
021 Radisch
34 Jones
and the last i cant get a good look at but might be 11 S.Richards

Luke

[wayno]

The penalty Morris was given was enough (it certainly hurt him). I'm with you Luke. I'm with the school of thought that PM didn't have a lot of options in front of him.

[xtreem2001]

You guys are about as consistent as AVESCO. How you can say Morris had no option other than what he did is probably the most absurd comment ever posted on these forums. Perhaps you should re visit the facts.

1) Morris admitted that he had to make the choice between hitting Richards or launching his car over the curbing. That highlights that he deliberately hit Richards to avoid damage to his own car.

2) The 4 cars behind Morris are insignificant when determining the punishment as Morris never claimed he even considered the braking option. His only concern was self preservation. That speaks volume about the man as a driver.

Taking the above facts into consideration the Dumbrell fiasco is very comparable to this "incident". Dumbrell was found guilty by way of making a wrong choice in the situation he placed himself in. Surely then Morris is guilty of the same thing. Difference here is that Morris is a TEAM OWNER and as such seems to have more pull with the stewards.

By placing his car on the outside of Richards in that section of track he placed himself in a dangerous situation. But, he chose to
protect himself and take out another driver. He had options. He could have backed off and overtaken Richards down the back straight on the next lap or at a safer part of the track. He had seen what happened only 24 hours earlier. If he felt he was being blocked by Richards a call on his 2 way would have rectified that situation as his team could have approached the stewards.

Morris is passed his use by date. He cant drive and is yet another example of a wanna be playing way out of his league. I only hope the whole fiasco ends up in court and Morris is forced to defend his actions there. I for one believe he will find it a lot tougher trying to convince a judge than he did AVESCO.

[lukey73]

xtreem2001 if morris had of backed off as you suggest one of 2 things would have happened.

1. The car following PM would have run up the right hand side of his bum and caused a very similar accident to that which happened with Jason Richards, the potential for greater carnage was there as the cars following wouldnt have a had a chance to avoid the accident.

2. Pm kept going hits the rumble strip and himself ends up in a major accident destroying his own car and more than likely himself in the process.

I don't think for 1 minute think the PM would have believed the outcome from his tag, in most situations when you tag another car like that sure it spins them you get a drive through and away you go.

As i stated before you cant compare the Dumbrell incident in NZ as it is TOTALLY different to that which happened at QR, Dumbrell tried to go past a car braking to the narrowing side of the road with its brake lights on. Yes they both hit a car infront of them but thats where the similarites end.

PM is great driver and has been for a number of years, using your theory we should get rid of John Bowe, Brad Jones, Anthony Tratt, Glenn Seton, Steve Johnson, Simon Wills and probably a few others. PM isnt having the best of seasons so far this year but he is a great competitior and shouldnt be put on the scrap heap as you suggest.

Luke

[xtreem2001]

Luke,
Surely you can see that your arguement is based on the "what ifs". These incidents should be ajudicated on based on the facts.
This highlights that Morris DID admit he had options and he chose the wrong option. Dumbrell argued he also made a choice and he also got it wrong. Therefore the comparisons are significant.
How one driver can be charged whilst the other gets off is beyond credibility. To suggest the penalty handed to Morris was fair suggests the stewards view the fact that Richards could have been seriously injured or killed as insignificant. As I stated in a previous post no one can argue that there is any consistency in the stewards findings this year.
As for the list of drivers you mentioned I think Bowe is also past his best. He loses his cool and barges into others. Clipsal this year proved he is losing the plot. Young drivers should be given the chance to prove themselves. I dont think Stevie Johnson has what it takes but he certainly isnt aggressive in his driving. Seton is the same. Brad Jones is another TEAM OWNER with more money than talent. As for Wills and Tratt they are learning and trying to stay out of trouble so let them go.
Morris is arrogant and has struggled in races through lack of fitness. If he was serious about his future he would have done something about it. His old team mate (Longhurst) knew when it was time to quit and I think Morris should do the same.

[wayno]

I can't help thinking that if that curb wasn't there then we wouldn't be talking so heatedly about this.

[lukey73]

I have said it before and will say it again YOU CANT COMPARE ACCIDENTS. You which to talk about facts and consistencies.

Fact Paul Dumbrell ran into the back of a car that was brakeing, Paul Morris did not, how you can compare these to accidents based on that fact alone is beyond me.

Fact We are all commenting on "what if's" the Fact remains PM got Driver through penalty and a 60 sec stop penalty which in my and obviously the IPO's mind is sufficent.

It is not upto AVESCO to hand out penalties it is the IPO's decision and then it is up to CAMS appeal tribuneral if it has to be taken further.

I have meet Paul Morris a few times over the past few years and have found him to be a great guy, i dont know on what basis you making you comments on but you are free to take that view if you which. You can not expect him to be thrown out of a Racing series because of his attitude, if that was the case then shouldnt Marcos Ambrose be thrown out aswell ! If you go on people with not alot of talent then Tratty should have gone long ago, he hasnt done anything of note and has been in V8's for a number of years ( since 97 ) and has been a mobile chicane for most of those he is lucky enough to have guy who throws money at him to race.

Luke

[Gan88]

Bowe, Jones & Morris are touring car, NASCAR and/or AUSCAR champions. I don't think a lack of talent is the problem. When you have so many cars running so close to each others' times, aggression is what wins you races (or points).

And don't even suggest that these cars are dangerous. When was the last time anyone died in a V8SCin the last 10 years? In fact, I can't even recall the last time someone was badly enough injured to miss a round in the last 5 years. There have been some pretty spectacular hits in that time as well (e.g., Murph trying to kill Bargs at PI, Larkham on Paul Morris at OP to name a few).

[XR8]

Originally posted by wayno
I can't help thinking that if that curb wasn't there then we wouldn't be talking so heatedly about this.

That's a fair call, but the crack-up part about this whole episode (and Mr McLeans) is that the ripple strip has been there for a number of years, and the boys have raced there before now.

I'm not intending to take the seriousness off the incidents by any means, but you race to suit the conditions, be they weather, track, or surrounding traffic.

Perhaps the corner does need to be reviewed, but I don't think it's possible to determine all the outcomes of a days racing when building a track, until something happens.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of the possible legal challenge to QR.

Ed :)

[lukey73]

I think the last real big one and anyone to miss a round was Craig Lowdnes after the crash at Calder.

He missed one round from memory when they operated on his knee after hit something in the car, but i could be wrong on how it happened.

Luke :D

[lukey73]

Originally posted by XR8
That's a fair call, but the crack-up part about this whole episode (and Mr McLeans) is that the ripple strip has been there for a number of years, and the boys have raced there before now.

I'm not intending to take the seriousness off the incidents by any means, but you race to suit the conditions, be they weather, track, or surrounding traffic.

Perhaps the corner does need to be reviewed, but I don't think it's possible to determine all the outcomes of a days racing when building a track, until something happens.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of the possible legal challenge to QR.

Ed :)

They cant go QR as it is CAMS who certify the curcuit fit for racing, if DODO racing want to go anyone it would have to be CAMS for certifying the track unfit but that would take alot of money and so called experts to deem it unsafe.

Luke

[Leigh]

Originally posted by lukey73
They cant go QR as it is CAMS who certify the curcuit fit for racing, if DODO racing want to go anyone it would have to be CAMS for certifying the track unfit but that would take alot of money and so called experts to deem it unsafe.

Luke
TEGA inspected the track PRIOR to the race on the weekend...

CAMS inspect for general racing. TEGA inspect specifically for V8 Supercars. If anybody is liable for the track, its TEGA...as they had performed the most recent inspection SPECIFICALLY for the event.

[lukey73]

MY understanding is that CAMS issue the licence for the track otherwise the teams cant race, TEGA do an inspection to satisfy themselves that they are happy with the track based on the CAMS licence.

I could be wrong but i thought it was Similar to the FIA situation with the USGP as V8supercars is an FIA approved series CAMS have to do everything to FIA specs or the V8's cant race. So any track mods have to be approved by CAMS then forwarded to the FIA.

Luke

[Leigh]

Originally posted by lukey73
MY understanding is that CAMS issue the licence for the track otherwise the teams cant race, TEGA do an inspection to satisfy themselves that they are happy with the track based on the CAMS licence.

I could be wrong but i thought it was Similar to the FIA situation with the USGP as V8supercars is an FIA approved series CAMS have to do everything to FIA specs or the V8's cant race. So any track mods have to be approved by CAMS then forwarded to the FIA.

Luke
The first bits my understanding too. So if there was any issue, TEGA should have raised it. Obviously no issue (hindsight is beautiful).

Being a national track, my understanding was that only CAMS had to endorse changes. International tracks such as Bathurst and Albert Park would require the FIA sign off... AVESCO are currently trying to get Sandown to upgrade the track so that it can get international status...obviously the FIA requirements are more stingent than our CAMS requirements...a bit of a worry really...

Cheers

[lukey73]

I was interested to hear Neil Crompton's comment during the telecast that he had been involved in track safety audits and that kerb and never been raised as an issue before.

Seem 's wierd that 2 cars have a near identical accidents due to the one curb. When i go out there in a few weeks i will findout what is going to happen with that curb as i use it in one of the series i run in.

Luke

[xtreem2001]

My understanding (from an inside source) is that Dodo racing are investigating who is actually to blame. Ultimately I think the comments that PM made have sparked this course of action.
By admitting he chose to clip Richards rather than run the curb himself I think ultimately Dodo are going to push the boundaries of the law here and seek compensation from Morris.
Several legal eagles have said it is always a dangerous thing to admit any sort of liability when involved in any dispute and Morris would have been better off saying nothing. By taking the initial action against the raceway an investigation will be required which Dodo seem to think may result in PM having to pay.
This could be a new era in V8's and one were no-one will win except the lawyers.

[inter]

Originally posted by wayno
I can't help thinking that if that curb wasn't there then we wouldn't be talking so heatedly about this.



Not sure about that. the incident would of happened with or with out curb.
With curb we saw the results.
with out curb richards would of probably spun in the grass and maybe some spoiler damage?
and with concrete wall ( street circuit) richards would of hit the wall bounced back on the track and possibly t boned?

3 senarios with 3 different damage/loss to richards.

At the end of the day paul Morris punishment was not fitting the crime ( no matter how spectacular/dramatic, the incident was).

inter

[Leigh]

Originally posted by inter
At the end of the day paul Morris punishment was not fitting the crime ( no matter how spectacular/dramatic, the incident was).

inter
I think most agree there...it just depends whether they think it was too harsh, or too light;)

[Kiwiracing]

Well I'm not getting into all this as all I saw was a huge pile of dust and bit's of car flying in all directions (actually saw the porsche do the same) and I was fairly close to it all sitting on Turn 3 near the WPS marquee.

What I can say is I have uploaded some of my shots from the weekend to my web site, more to come when I have time. Enjoy.

www.drmphotos.com (http://drmphotos.com/gallery/gallery1index.htm)

Cheers
Kiwiracing

[biante1948]

Originally posted by Kiwiracing
Well I'm not getting into all this as all I saw was a huge pile of dust and bit's of car flying in all directions (actually saw the porsche do the same) and I was fairly close to it all sitting on Turn 3 near the WPS marquee.

What I can say is I have uploaded some of my shots from the weekend to my web site, more to come when I have time. Enjoy.

www.drmphotos.com (http://drmphotos.com/gallery/gallery1index.htm)

Cheers
Kiwiracing

Geez Kiwiracing I was about 20 feet from the end of that WPS marquee on Saturday. all day Saturday. We were probably standing beside one another and didn't know it.

Last minute decision for me to go. Maybe we might meet up next year. See what happens.

[Kiwiracing]

Originally posted by biante1948
Geez Kiwiracing I was about 20 feet from the end of that WPS marquee on Saturday. all day Saturday. We were probably standing beside one another and didn't know it.

Last minute decision for me to go. Maybe we might meet up next year. See what happens.

Ha I wondered who may have been around us, I had the kids there on Saturday, and the wife, just me on Sunday, but had to do some work with TKR first thing in the morning.

We just didn't get our *hit together this round to catch up, sorry to the guys I didn't ring, just to lazy, oh and a bit busy:)

Cheers
Kiwiracing

[Acj428]

Well i have gotten some spare time to up load some pix 7 of 197 :eek: ;) from the QR 300, enjoy! :

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=469

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=468

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=467

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=466

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=465

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=464

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=463

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=462

I have other driver if some people may want to see, not all drivers of course???

[Footy]

With all this talk about legalities and liabilities why would one want to go racing?
Stay tuned for the new court room drama...Live on ten (after judge Judy).:rolleyes:

[Malik]

Dodo should be told to tell their story walkin...

cos if anything comes of it then it opens up the field to EVERY team to sue another team for damage to a car in what is essentially a dangerous sport where it is EXPECTED that cars get damaged...

Otherwise... let's see PWR sue KRT for last year's incident cos it was Rick's fault and KRT should pay the repairs..

let's see Orrcon sue the Shanghai track owners for having a sewer grate there in the first place... how about PWR sue them for having the track setup the way they did to launch murphy over the service road.


if this starts happening there is no end to it and we will have even more freight train racing because noone will want to come within a metre of the opponent cos they will get sued to pay for the paint repairs or panelbeating...

[wayno]

If the legal Pandora's Box is opened in relation to motorsport then we will cease to have it at all.

[TBVX05]

Great pics acj428, they're as good as Waynos in the other thread. What type of cameras have you two got, anyway?

[Kiwiracing]

Originally posted by Acj428
Well i have gotten some spare time to up load some pix 7 of 197 :eek: ;) from the QR 300, enjoy! :

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=469

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=468

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=467

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=466

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=465

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=464

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=463

http://forum.justmustangs.com.au/album_pic.php?pic _id=462

I have other driver if some people may want to see, not all drivers of course???

Great pic's mate, seems you were close to where I was, what camera are you using?

Cheers
Kiwiracing

[Acj428]

These were taken on my Fuji S3 pro, Lens Nikon 300mm 2.8.. Shot in raw file format and then I re saved them into TIFS, We've just recieved our new Agfa netlab II digital colour printer at work, so I'll be having some fun printing these off!!! ;)

[terrine]

click here for some snaps from our trip to the Qld 280 (http://community.webshots.com/album/408797206mMSq tU/0)

r/peter