Le Mans Cars

[VXfan]

Who collects Le Mans cars here?
Have you seen how many 1:43's have just been added as development approved?!
And I thought collecting Bathurst cars was expensive:eek:

[TBVX05]

Yes but they're not all Minichamps models, some are Spark and Redline models. :cool:

[spoonster05]

I've got a few Le Mans cars in my collection but I strictly stick to Le Mans cars with an Australian link as my collection is mostly based on Australian cars and drivers.

[TBVX05]

The only Lemans models I would collect are the Minichamps Corvette. What an effort to come fifth this year and class winner!

[jager]

:"+

[wayno]

Jager, that sounds like a brilliant collection that would be well worth seeing! Unfortunately I've only got a few LeMans cars in 1:18.
I've decided to stick pretty much with winning cars (like I do with F1), but the lack of good models available in this scale is laughable.

[Nick Short]

I normally collect only 1:18, but because most Le Mans models are in 1:43 I have to go with that scale. Onyx, Spark and iXO have made some gorgeous models, other than the usual Minichamps. I collect any car that looks good whether it won or not, but if I have a sub-theme of any kind it's road-registered Le Mans/sports racing cars. Not too many of those! So far I have a UK-registered Jaguar D type (OVC 501), UK-registered Lola T70 (WTB 9H), UK-registered Nissan R390 GT1 (R390 NIS), German-registered Toyota GT-One (K-LM 1998), German-registered Porsche 996 GT1 (BB-GT 128), German-registered Porsche 917K (CW-K 917) and US-registered Porsche 917K (61-27737). If anyone knows of any others out there I'd be grateful to hear about them!

Glad to know there are also a few collectors of non-Aussie, non-touring cars out there!

[toecutter]

Nick,
I can give you a 917 chassis number that your mate Count Rossi street car has. 917- 030. I gather you bought a Brumm 917 Rossi?
Once was a Porsche works test car, then used by Team Martini in the Osterreichring 1971. The Count loved it so much that he bought it from Porsche and modified it for street use.
Australian Alan Hamiltion (has/did) have two 917 chassis. 917 - 033 and 917/30 - 004
And Australian racing legend Frank Gardner was a 917 test driver for Porsche.
Does any have a picture, link etc of the 917 that Porsche used as a race taxi for VIP rides (1970?) It was called "Red Taxi". The car was later painted in the Gulf colours. Any help?
Cheers,
Brad.

[VXfan]

Originally posted by jager
VX Fan, nice to see someone else with an interest in LeMans models. I have approx 300 models all in 1:43. These include just about every post WWII winner(except 1960 - 1962 and 1971) plus nine pre WWII winners.

I try to focus on top 10 winners, pole winners and other unusual or attractive cars. Its the last category that causes the problems. I used to try and stick to 3 cars per race year, but since Spark came along that's up to 8 car per year.

With the new releases by Spark its becoming an expensive theme. There have been about 70 races since 1924, with an average of 60 cars per race so thats potentially 4,200 models -plus its growing by 50 cars per year ! In addition to the models I have I have a list of over 600 other LeMans cars that have been modelled in 1:43, so approx 20% of all cars have been modelled to date..

Like Spoonster I also have an Aussie sub-theme, which is up to approx 30 models. Looking forward to adding the Brock Porsche 956 from the Biante Legends soon !

Cheers

Jager
Actually,I don't collect Le Mans cars although i would like to!I simply can't afford to add yet another different theme to my already expensive hobby!Sounds like you have a geat collection there though:)

[Nick Short]

Toecutter, the last 2 cars I listed are the Brumm cars - I have original magazine articles about them and saw the models (only 1000 of each made), and so had to have them! My general collecting theme (1:18 and 1:43) is road-related racing cars, so all the "homologation special" touring cars, rally cars and sports racers come into that, but the rarest and most exciting of all for me are the full-blown racing cars of any type that get a road plate and end up on the streets! And Le Mans-type cars are the most removed from "normal" road cars, so they are the most extreme of all (apart from the funny car dragsters I saw one night on the road near my house....).

VXfan, the more you think about it the more likely it is you will start collecting Le Mans cars! If you're worried about how many 1:43 there are, collect 1:18 and you'll find they only come out infrequently. AutoArt's Mazda 767 is due out any time soon (in fact has been for over 6 months now) and that would be a fine model to start with! Not as expensive as a limited-issue, signed COA Biante racing car either.

[jager]

^&*

[Nick Short]

It is the later cars that I find even more exciting, simply because they were further removed from road cars (although some of the 60s cars were quite extreme!). The road versions of the cars you mention were just that - road cars, and although fit my "homologation special" theme are not quite as exciting as say a BMW M1 Procar racer with plates on, a road-registered Porsche 962, or the ex-Le Mans Gulf McLaren F1 GTR I saw with a UK 1996 N plate. These are the Holy Grails of my motorsport interest. It is, I suppose, the difference (for Aussie collectors) between an XY GT-HO, and an ex-Bathurst Phase III (complete with roll cage, full race engine, maybe original race livery etc) with road plates. Both exciting cars, but the ex-race car even more so.

[jager]

$#@

[Nick Short]

The Montecarlo had an iron block 2 litre 4 cyl from the Lancia Beta sedan and no racing pretensions at all (it was supposed to be a successor to the Fiat X1/9; the turbo silhouette racers were a different car altogether, although had the same shape midsection). The M1 was a street sports car with a straight-six, but none of the racing extras that went on the later Procar racer, although it was eventually homologated into Groups 4 and B as the basis of a racer; and the road 512BB was very different from the racing version in every way including shape - that's what I meant by them being "road cars", as opposed to out-and-out racing cars! Ferrari selling road cars to fund racing wasn't dissimilar to fashion houses selling perfume and street clothes to fund their extravagant and costly fashion shows but it's stll not the same as "road versions" of racing cars. There was some commonality of engine blocks back then (like XY GT and Bathurst GT-HO I suppose), but after the 250GT I don't think many Ferrari race cars were sold as road cars to private customers. The GTO, LM and even lightweight Daytona were sold as race cars only, although as you say, the GTO at least often had road-registration, and many cars eventually ended up on the road, including crazy things like the P3. The Porsche GT1 certainly retained the roll cage of the racer (but beautifully trimmed), but perhaps I should include it and the other GT1s in the "homologation special collection", as the road cars were sold as just that - it is the full racing cars that were not intended for the road but which have made it there that excite me the most (including the GTO, GT40 etc of the 1960s, but more so the later you go).

[toecutter]

If you want a good read about everything about the 911 GT1, try and get your hands on a copy of the Christophorus Porsche Magazine June 1996. Hightly recommended! *****

[toecutter]

Originally posted by jager
Porsche GT1 all had fully trimmed interiors without race detail like roll cages.

The roll cage is part and parcel of the tubular space frame. You would never notice it was there. The only main difference from road and race would be the CD player:)
Imagine back in the early 70's and were the lucky person with $$$$ and ticked the 917 option box with a air cooled 5.7 litre turbo ....... ahhh, 1000 horse power on tap. Those were the days;)

[Nick Short]

The original test car of the street GT1 (993 model) had visible roll cage sill members alongside the seat, painted white, and the upright members trimmed in black, so you'd notice them every time you got in and out! As with a lot of these "no compromise" competition cars, some road testers missed the point completely, complaining they were impractical.....as if they were testing some sort of MPV or something! ("only 2 seats, hard to get in and out, no luggage space, granny finds it difficult to drive, very thirsty".....). Same with the RS500 Sierra - the bigger turbo was slower to spool up in road use (you don't normally drive at 6000 rpm on the road) and so acceleration was a bit slower. So several road tests I have in my collection moan "what's the point, when the original RS was quicker?" And of course the Walkinshaw VL was criticised for being ugly, when it was designed for racing use, not a show and shine competition.

But back to Le Mans cars - has anyone seen the DVD series "Victory by Design"? Alain de Cadenet drives a range of tasty cars, and each DVD features a different marque. The Ferrari one has a whole heap of incredible racers that happen to have been road-registered, from the 1950s to today, and there are separate DVDs for Jaguar, Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo, Porsche and Maserati. D type, XJ220C, T33, Nimrod etc, driven hard on roads and private estates.

[TBVX05]

Whens the last time a Ferrari won Lemans. Also, has a GM manufacturer ever won lemans?

[jager]

@#$

[TBVX05]

Thanks Jager. I was impressed with the Corvettes position this year of 5th and 6th which is probably their best ever result!

[Chriso]

Hi anyone,
I had a to go upto Perth yesterday so while i was up there i'd stoped into a few model shops (triking, stanbrigdes, games & hobby) and the Pitstop Bookshop. Dont buy any models but did pick up the In Car 956 DVD that was on special for $30 and a Box Set for $90 and too my surprise for anyone spending over a $100 was given a free book for the Pitstop's 10th Anniversary "We hope you enjoy this wonderful book, 'Through My Eyes' by Dirk Klynsmith celebrating the last 12 years of Australian Motorsport". (300+pics) Great book! and Thanks to the guys at Pitstop. They had thoughs 'Victory By Design" DVD's there Nick, i take it that this is a new series as they where $50 a pop as apposed to the normal 35-40 but sounds like its a good thing.

[Nick Short]

Enjoy a lap of Le Mans, Chriso! You won't see a public road driven so fast......
And the Victory By Design series were apparently first shown on cable, but have been tweaked and had extra footage added. They are expensive, but I have the Ferrari one and think it is worth the money! The sound of those V12s at high revs, as de Cadenet wrings performance out of machinery worth millions, is a pleasure in itself. Brief trailers for the other DVDs in the series suggests that they might be worth watching as well......

[wayno]

Anyone got any more info on the Victory by Design DVD's? I haven't heard of them. Might have to check a couple out when I'm in Perth for Rally Australia.

[Nick Short]

Each one (except the Porsche one, which has a different format) runs 80-90 minutes, but that includes a "making of" segment. The Ferrari one is typical - Alain de Candenet talks about each significant car while walking around it, demonstrating certain features. He then climbs in, starts it up, and then tears off at speed, driving it hard on either a race track, private road, public road, and even through the streets of London (246S race car)! Cameras are mounted on various bits of the cars to give a driver's view and give an impression of speed. He thrashes various Le Mans and other famous race cars, and the engine sound is specially recorded in Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS Surround Sound - gorgeous! The Porsche one is apparently mostly archive footage of the cars, and de Cadenet doesn't drive as much, but I haven't seen it so can't give you any more info. There is a website - www.victorybydesign.com - that will have more.

[biante3223]

Hey Nick......

Have you, or any of you others seen any of the Ecurie Ecosse Jaguar D-Type LeMans cars around lately???

Or, any ideas where to look???

I have heard that Quartzo or Spark/Bizzarre had released some.

Any Clues??

Somebody???

Anybody???

PLEASE!!!??? (sob!):(

Thanks
Shayne

[wayno]

Thanks Nick. I think you're going to cost me more money! :D
I am sick and tired of getting my latest DVD home and having to contend with poxy music covering the engine note of fabulous cars (even the Goodwood Ferstival of Speed DVD's are starting to do this).
Don't these bozo's realise we buy these things because we are CAR enthusiasts? As such we want to see and HEAR the machines we covet performing in all their glory!
Just my two cents. I feel better now I've got that off my chest! ;)

[jager]

@#$

[Nick Short]

And one day, once AutoArt have stopped faffing around making Beetles and RX8s by the thousand, we might get a 1:18.....

[Nick Short]

Anyone know if we'll ever get a 1:18 of the gorgeous Mercedes-Benz CLR? Spark have done a tasty 1:43 of the presentation car in plain silver, and race versions to come, but with Mark Webber one of the principal drivers I would have thought there would be some interest. A 1:18 of the Spark presentation version would go down a treat, let alone Webber's race car!

[Nick Short]

A pair of beautiful CLRs....I want one!

[jager]

@#$

[Nick Short]

After I wrote it I found some race versions on the net, so as usual I was out of date! But Webber or not, the car is stunning and deserves a 1:18 (we haven't even had a decent street CLK-GTR, just Maisto's ropy version). Are Mercedes being awkward?

[jager]

#$%

[Nick Short]

I wonder if that's the problem, although I can see what you mean. Mercedes were happy to show off the CLR at the Goodwood FoS immediately after Le Mans (although they'd fitted little front winglets), so they can't have been too embarrassed at that time. And there were no such problems with the CLK-GTR, which is worth modelling because it was a spectacular road car, and the world's most expensive, at $2.6 million list price! Mercedes at the time had the widest price variation between top and bottom of their range, with the GTR at the top, and the A Class at the bottom. They've modelled the A Class (why?....), so I'm hoping for an AutoArt GTR.....

[Graeme]

A small slip regarding the iXO LeMans models - the race winner series is prefixed "LM" and comes in unique blue packaging. Many of the winning cars are also available in iXO's regular black product packaging, with product prefixes "LMC" for Classics and "LMM" for Moderns.

The 1957 winning D-Type has been available from iXO as product LM1957 in the winners' series or LMC001 in the regular Classics range.

As for Webber's 1999 Merc CLR in 1:43 scale, it has just been announced as a forthcoming Spark item, product number S0994.

[Dingo]

Originally posted by jager
Spark decided not to release a version of Webber's car, probably because it never actually started the race after its flip in the warm-up. However, I have seen some collector modified versions of Webbers car using aftermarket decals for car #4 (and the mirrors repainted red).
http://www.biante.com.au/merchandise.cfm?mode=view&MerchandiseID=16202

:D :D

[Chriso]

Originally posted by Nick Short
Enjoy a lap of Le Mans, Chriso! You won't see a public road driven so fast......

One can only imagine what it must be like to be full noise heading down that straight in the middle of the night with 50 other crazys, some people have all the fun. Is the clutch or shifter air-assisted?

wayno...i bought some motorsport dvds on ebay a few weeks back and the guy threw in a dvd 'British Grand Prix Greats'. I've watched it and its ok but i'm not a big F1 fan and thought you may enjoy it. PM me if you want and i'll send it your way.

Back to topic of LM cars, how about a handbuilt 1:12 917K
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BIG-SCALE-1-12-PORSCHE-917K-SEBRING-71-NOT-1-18-1-43_W0QQitemZ5991450055QQcategoryZ1190QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem

[Nick Short]

No the gearchange was very conventional on the 956 (Porsche developed a semi-automatic PDK gearbox for the 962 that followed) - the sound you hear with each gearchange is the turbo wastegates opening and releasing excess boost.

You can see why the old Mulsanne Straight, with no chicanes, was regarded as legendary amongst all race circuits! Maximum revs, low drag longtail body, car settling as the airflow presses it into the bitumen, taking the Mulsanne Kink flat out at almost 250 mph, lots of very solid hazards flashing by, slower cars in the way, if you blew a tyre (as Win Percy did in his Jag) you were just a passenger. This is the main reason the chicanes were put in, sadly.....

[Chriso]

Boost, i didn't even think of that, i was too busy trying to hang-on! :D

[toecutter]

Oh to be in QLD.

Other special Porsches at Queensland Raceway over the August 6-7 weekend include a former European hillclimb title winning 1959 RS-K Spyder, an ex-Le Mans 904 sports car from the early 1960s, the ex-John Latham racing 934 Turbo from the late 1970s, Victorian Rusty French’s three 650HP-plus Type 935 racing models (including the car that won two Australian GT Championships in 1982/83 in the hands of Alan Jones and French respectively), a racing 962 sports car from the mid-1980s and the 911 GT3 RS that won its class in the 2002 Le Mans 24 Hour race.


Shannons Link (http://www.shannons.com.au/shannons/shannons.nsf/ pages/F973222766F00550CA25704800801349?opendocumen t&Report)

CLICK 1 (http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread. php?action=attachment&tid=42421&pid=394050&aid=44766)

CLICK 2 (http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread. php?action=attachment&tid=42421&pid=394051&aid=44767)

[Nick Short]

Very excited to find that AutoArt are making the Calsonic Nissan R390 GT1 from Le Mans 1997 in 1:18! At last! Something for those of us who prefer the bigger models......They're doing the #23 car (AA89776) and the #32 car (AA89876). Hope they are/will be on the Biante site (I haven't checked yet!).

And the Porsche 934 RSR residing in Australia would make a nice model, together with Bob Jane's 911 RSR, Brock's 956, and any other Porsche, Ferrari or other sports racer with an Aussie connection....

[J-PaP]

Just started to collect these. I am sticking to le mans winners though. My first one is a minichamps 03 #7 bentley speed 8. I am going to try stick to the last 4 decades first and see how that goes. Am also trying to stick to minichamps, spark and ixo. But there are a few years I know I will have to go a different brand.

I was wondering though having a choice between ixo and minichamps for some years, which is normally the better model?

[malscar]

Am also trying to stick to minichamps, spark and ixo. But there are a few years I know I will have to go a different brand.

I was wondering though having a choice between ixo and minichamps for some years, which is normally the better model?


I am guessing 1/43. If so, look at HPI as well.

[Kashmir]

I guess it's hard to choose between IXO and Minichamps but if you have a choice with Spark,consider Spark as they're stunning but they are quite a bit more expensive though;)

[jager]

Hi J-Pap

Welcome to the world of 1:43 Le Mans winners. In answer to your question regarding Minichamps or IXO, it will depend to a degree on your budget. In some case the Minichamps can be superior, but will generally cost a lot more. At least most of the Minichamps have fallen substantially in price from some of the crazy prices being achieved 5 years ago.

Don't forget HPI who now do some stunning models with removeable engine covers and detailed engines. They have done the 1982, 1985, 1988, 1989, 1991 and 1998 winners and these would be some of the first models to add to this theme. I don't think anyone in Australia carries their models, but you'll find them overseas.

Enjoy !

[J-PaP]

Thanks for the replies. Spark is definitely first preference. I wish I knew guarantied they will release all Le Mans winners and I'd just collect all of those. Generally if i can get a minichamps version for sub 100 I will go that one over an Ixo. I expect though 74 and 95 to probably be over 100.

I definitely have been eyeing the HPI models. If I can get the 89 and 91 winners I will be happy. I thought though they made the 1984 winner not the 1985?

[Kashmir]

I thought though they made the 1984 winner not the 1985?

I thought they only made the 84 winning Porsche not the 85 one as well,but I could be wrong:confused:

[jager]

Sorry, it is the 1984 car not the 1985 car so my bad (I'm 15,000km away from my collection at the moment so was going from memory).

[k1w1taxi]

If I can get the 89 and 91 winners I will be happy.

Yes you will be. The Mazda is outstanding and by far the best version on the market (and I have 4 versions). Watch out though for the Jags from HPI as they have a fit problem with the engine covers.

As regards Minichamps and ixo, these days it is very much a case of checking each specific year as one tends to beat the other then vice versa. However ixo have such a large lead in the range stakes it will take some time for the others to catch up.

With regard the 956/962 winners definitely avoid both Minichamps and ixo as they are from seriously old (the ixo are originally vitesse and MC are the same era) and flawed (both companies tried to use the same castings for both cars) castings. Spark is probably the way to go for these ATM.

Cheers
Lee

[TOY032]

With regard the 956/962 winners definitely avoid both Minichamps and ixo as they are from seriously old (the ixo are originally vitesse and MC are the same era) and flawed (both companies tried to use the same castings for both cars) castings. Spark is probably the way to go for these ATM
Are you talking about 43rd scale?

I have a few 1:18s from a few different companies, Purchased most of this website and have found the quality of the minichamps and autoart are great!! even the miasto are good for the $$$ (under $90 del), Unfortunatley the Spark are a sealed unit :(

Just picked up the 91 winner from M.C.O.T.W. for $220 del

And the 99 Toyota gt one for $85 :D with $40 del :( (ebay us)

PS have a look in Ebay US and UK even France there are a few bargins to be had in "lemans"

Cheers Liam!!

[k1w1taxi]

Are you talking about 43rd scale?

Yes I was. The only problem (apart from space to display :) ) with 1:18 is the lack of range currently, or ever likely to be available especially for the earlier years.

Cheers
Lee

[Richard Poole]

Just started to collect these. I am sticking to le mans winners though. My first one is a minichamps 03 #7 bentley speed 8. I am going to try stick to the last 4 decades first and see how that goes. Am also trying to stick to minichamps, spark and ixo. But there are a few years I know I will have to go a different brand.

I was wondering though having a choice between ixo and minichamps for some years, which is normally the better model?

Check out the Spark LeMans winners collection. 4 released so far with a few more coming shortly. They will be producing all winners over the next many years so it would be easy to start now with the first few releases.

[jager]

Check out the Spark LeMans winners collection. 4 released so far with a few more coming shortly. They will be producing all winners over the next many years so it would be easy to start now with the first few releases.

Funny, that's what IXO said 3 years ago when they released their Le Mans Winners Collection, but it seems they had a fall out with the ACO and only half finished the series. Still, some of their models are stunning - but the 1950 Talbot is a dog.

[J-PaP]

The collection only getting half finished is what I am worried about and has me undecided about just collecting the spark ones or getting any others I can. I might just go with the spark ones and see how it goes over the year. Spark already makes about 10 from my last count.

[Richard Poole]

Ixo's collection is being resumed. They have renegotiated with the ACO and all is smoothed over. The cars were never going to stop, they just had to remove the ACO logo's. Now they can use the logo's so no change.

[Kashmir]

Ixo's collection is being resumed. They have renegotiated with the ACO and all is smoothed over. The cars were never going to stop, they just had to remove the ACO logo's. Now they can use the logo's so no change.

Thats good to hear.

[spolyhronidis]

A friend who has worked at LeMans a few times, says that there is a little shop near the circuit. For the right amount of cash you can purchase the winning car in 1/43 scale as it looks when it crosses the finish line, only a couple of hours after the race. The model (i think he said they are made from resin) includes any kind of damage the car may have sustained during the race. Not sure if these models are legit.