Open letter to Biante staff

[xtreem2001]

I have tonight removed ALL postings to the Formula one thread. After reading some of the responses and the rather personal attacks made by some, I see little point in continuing the discussion. I do find it sad that some Senior members on here appear to have a licence to attack the character of anyone that does not agree with their point of view WITHOUT fear of reply from the Biante moderators. In light of that I will refrain from upsetting the "boys club" in the future and find a forum that does allow freedom of speech without the fear of personal attacks.

[Luke Orreal]

Here Here. I agree 100%.

[Nathan Rzepecki]

Please send me a pm of what has been going on. I do not read every thread each day because it would take my whole day. Please pm me and let me know what is going on.

[brchi17]

As one of those who was participating in this particular thread , I too don't see the use for personal jives, name calling, etc.... This is not what the vast majority is all about.

An intelligent, well thought out & rational discussions is another thing altogether. :)

[younglion]

i agree extreem because we dont have 1000 posts some of the olders more experienced posters see us as stupid and not knowing anything about anything. I have noticed you have been called a goose and other such names and your right it has to stop. Certain members feel as though they are invincible and its just not right. just because they have one hand in biantes pocket doesnt make them any more knowledgable than me you or the other posters on this forum.

[brchi17]

i agree extreem because we dont have 1000 posts some of the olders more experienced posters see us as stupid and not knowing anything about anything. I have noticed you have been called a goose and other such names and your right it has to stop. Certain members feel as though they are invincible and its just not right. just because they have one hand in biantes pocket doesnt make them any more knowledgable than me you or the other posters on this forum.

I take offence to your assumptions younglion as it is simply not the case.

To my knowledge (and anyone, please feel free to correct me), there are no members on this forum other than Biante staff who have a direct affiliation to the company, like you suggest.

We are all avid collectors who like to discuss this with like minded individuals.

[younglion]

maybe you should open your eyes and think outside the perfect little world you think exists. Im not gonna say who it is coz its not my place.

[VXfan]

Agree with u Brad and no,not because u have 'x' amount of posts either!!
I have 1000+ posts but I can guarantee that there are heaps of members with very few posts that know a helluva lot more about diecast and motorsport than I will probably ever know.
I have 'x' number of posts because I like to ramble a lot!:D
I read all the 'discussions' on the thread in question and I feel that a lot of people threw comments willy nilly and not just the 'boys club' (there's a nice term to incite argument eh?)
I think it's great that we can be so passionate about things but it does go too far when insults start to get thrown around (from both sides of the fence I might add)
Cheers,
Tony.

[lukey73]

maybe you should open your eyes and think outside the perfect little world you think exists. Im not gonna say who it is coz its not my place.

Younglion you have made the statement! I suspect i know how it is and the way in which you are represnting yourself and the comments that you are making could be classed defamatory towards that person and also Biante, i hope you realise that.

I must say that if a person does not like a discussion that takes place in a public forum as some people are pointing out flaws in there opinion then it doesnt worry me whether coose to contribute or not. Not everyone, even those in the so called "boys club" agree all the time, may i suggest that cool heads prevail and the general banter continue.

As a foot note, Xtreem i am dismayed you have removed your posts but that was your decision and your alone. On most occassions i find your posts interesting but on this occassion i felt they were full inaccurace's that need to be addressed. Here's hoping you still contribute.

Luke

[younglion]

i didnt say ALL members with a lot of posts do it, like yourself there are guys out there willing to help and inform some of the junior members. Its just a shame that like always a very select few ruin it for everyone. I dont mean to cause any insult just venting the way i have found certain members to be arrogant and always right

[Leigh]

Well, having just reviewed the thread in question, I can find one out-of-line name calling by a person over 1000 posts...I have struggled to find the "other such names" nor what would fulfil the statement "some"...when it was "one"...

Likewise, it is dissapointing to see that all of the posts that show the name calling was not just "one way" (be it direct or indirect), as is implied here, have been deleted...

I ask the question, does one walk into a pub and tell the locals to move?

One should be less antagonistic (note that one can still be controverisial) in ones post if they do not want retaliation...re-read Xtreems (http://forums.biante.com.au/showpost.php?p=143473&postcount=655) first post (which has been saved from deletion as it appears as a quote in another post) and convince me that the use of swear words and the general word use is not antagonistic and inciting a response? Albeit a heated one!

[wayno]

maybe you should open your eyes and think outside the perfect little world you think exists. Im not gonna say who it is coz its not my place.

Why stop now? You have already made an incredibly offensive suggestion about 'hands in pockets'. As Brad said, that's not the case, but if that's your opinion then that's fine.
I call things as I see them. If I think a statement is ridiculous I will say so, BUT, I will also try to reason as to why I think the way I do.
I do not think I have thrown an insult anyone's way in what I have posted. My comment about the Webber knockers was directed at a lot of people (including some mainstream media) who have been taking shots at Mark's efforts with little or no knowledge of the sport.
Seems some posts were removed, and from what I gather I was singled out for special mention in one of them. That's fine with me. I am definately not thin skinned and do not take offence. But I would have liked the chance to answer.
I think a lot of this stems from people taking personal offence. If you're going to throw big statements around then you must expect people to disagree with you. Just don't be surprised when they do.

[younglion]

i couldnt care less if everyone on this forum doesnt agree with me. Because i know for a FACT that what i said is true. Im not gonna cry myself to sleep at night coz a bunch of people on a internet forum dont believe me.

[Leigh]

i couldnt care less if everyone on this forum doesnt agree with me. Because i know for a FACT that what i said is true. Im not gonna cry myself to sleep at night coz a bunch of people on a internet forum dont believe me.
I'm glad we agree;)

I'm just curious to know who is "in Biante's pocket"...and more to the point, what perks etc come with this;)

Cheers

[Nathan Rzepecki]

I'm glad we agree;)

I'm just curious to know who is "in Biante's pocket"...and more to the point, what perks etc come with this;)

Cheers
Wouldn't mind knowing this also. If there is I haven't received any bribes :)

Jokes aside, On each post is an icon that has a icon as follows http://forums.biante.com.au/images/buttons/report. gif click on that and report the post So I can then moderate it.

[Dingo]

There's a reason some of us have 1000+ posts - it's because we enjoy the discussion, debate, and opinion exchange of other members, many of whom we will never meet in person, some of whom are on other continents to our own. We welcome new blood (both metaphorically and literally) onto the forum, because many of these new people provide insight and commentary than us "fossils" thoroughly enjoy. We like to keep it clean, while putting across our opinion in an eloquent, astute manner.

What we don't like is when newbies walk in without wiping their feet, without making an effort to understand what goes on in here, and then blurt out the equivalent of, "Howz it going dudz? Holden rulz!"

No one is going to get along with everyone on this forum. I'm sure there are places on the Internet designed for all people to get along at all times, with no controversy or difference of opinion of any kind. Frankly, I don't want to know about them.

Let me leave with a post from another place, paraphrased for here:
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires, whether it be V8 Supercars, F1, Le Mans, or any other form of motorsport. But it's not for the timid."

[el_hefty]

Your post count makes you who you are as long as we all remember that ;)

[Tumbo]

Having been involved in what I felt was a robust debate its a shame for it to degenerate into this thread. The debate while heated was never personal in the other thread and considering that only Xtreme's posts are deleted I would like to see some actual evidence of where comments became personal attacks which went over the line. Xtreme has complained of our actions; yet he has removed his own comments before his complaint, Biante staff are unable to see the comments he made which envoked the strong pro-webber response, which when one looks at them are all based on factual evidence.

A good debate has arguments on both sides which can be strong in terms but needn't step into the personal sphere. Here what seems to have been taken out of context (especially with all the deleted posts) are that the statements made use factual support to make an argument

[xtreem2001]

As this is an open forum and others have stated an opinion I will do likewise.
I made a statement in regard to the "boys club" and have no hesitation in backing that with an explanation for ALL to read. As for the removal of my posts to the Formula one thread, that was done to prevent any further agitation. I will however point out that at least one other post was edited this morning before it could be forwarded to the Biante staff so please do not single out one participant. What is good for the "goose" also applies to the gander (to use another participants word).

In response to Leigh and Dingo :
On the one hand you have questioned Younglions post in response to his comments about "hands in pockets". I believe his post was suggesting that certain "senior members" believe they are above reproach in how they deal with certain members. I would like to point out that this forum is in the public domain and as such has NO resemblance to the "local hotel". Nor (to the best of my knowledge) has Biante set any guidelines that require "newbies" to tread lightly until they are accepted on this site. Your replies highlight the exact situation I was refering to and I find it dissapointing that "senior members" would even make these type of suggestions. If neither of you have any right to moderation (as authorised by Biante) I would suggest your comments are well outside acceptable protocol. Having been a member of this forum for over 12 months I would ask at what point one can be considered a regular.

In response to Tumbo :
I am always happy to participate in solid contructive debate. Being told I lack knowledge on the subject and that I am "goose" hardly constitutes constructive debate. My response (on the particular thread) did draw some very good replies but in general it appeared the favoured few were simply trying to turn the debate into a "gutter brawl". I base the majority of my opinions on information that is made available to me via sources other than either the print or electronic media and as such feel confident that I am not simply "dribbling" which has also been suggested in the past.

I guess time will tell who was right in their opinion. The beauty of this forum is that we all hide behind an alias and no-one really knows who it is at the other end of the keyboard. There may just be a few "red faces" if that ever changed.

[Malik]

Post count has nothing to do with it..

you can have 10 top notch quality posts or you could have 10 000 crap useless inane posts (no Brad Im not looking at you)...

the people that generally get accepted quickly to a forum are those that post quality and not necessarily quantity..

if you come and post **** over and over again.. how much respect do you think you will get...



oh and Nathan... the check's in the mail mate :D

[wayno]

Everyone has had their say, and I think we should leave it at that and get back to enjoying ourselves.

The beauty of this forum is that we all hide behind an alias and no-one really knows who it is at the other end of the keyboard. There may just be a few "red faces" if that ever changed.

Some people are like this, but note that some people have made no pretences to doing this at all.
A lot of us have gone out of our way to meet other collectors when the opportunity presents itself, have also made no secret of who we really are (my username is my nickname), and have filled in our location on our user profile.
Some hide, some don't feel the need to.

[Tumbo]

As this is an open forum and others have stated an opinion I will do likewise.
I made a statement in regard to the "boys club" and have no hesitation in backing that with an explanation for ALL to read. As for the removal of my posts to the Formula one thread, that was done to prevent any further agitation. I will however point out that at least one other post was edited this morning before it could be forwarded to the Biante staff so please do not single out one participant. What is good for the "goose" also applies to the gander (to use another participants word).

In response to Tumbo :
Being told I lack knowledge on the subject and that I am "goose" hardly constitutes constructive debate. My response (on the particular thread) did draw some very good replies but in general it appeared the favoured few were simply trying to turn the debate into a "gutter brawl". I base the majority of my opinions on information that is made available to me via sources other than either the print or electronic media and as such feel confident that I am not simply "dribbling" which has also been suggested in the past.

I guess time will tell who was right in their opinion. The beauty of this forum is that we all hide behind an alias and no-one really knows who it is at the other end of the keyboard. There may just be a few "red faces" if that ever changed.

Firstly to remove your posts and then cry foul was uncalled for. I stand by all the statements I made and while a number of comments by others could be taken the wrong way if one is over-sensitive the fact remains that agitation came from both sides of the fence. Most of what you have deemed "personal" attacks were asking you to support your statements with evidence; be it from the media etc; don't sit there and abuse senior members for asking the hard questions when you are dishing out the same to an australian and well liked and supported driver. Further in removing your posts you have removed yourself from being called into question on the thread- for another member to edit their post is simply doing as you did yesterday.

Of the guys on Biante most are happy to sort out differences if they are brought up politely or even via a polite PM; and in the years i've been using this place there have been a number of posts voluntarily removed this way. Not everything has to be sorted out with moderator help.

As for remaining annonymous; a large number of Biante members meet regularly at privately arranged biante club dos; or at the official ones; or at race meetings; or even just when ppl are visiting their neck of the woods.

[AmonFan]

Actually quite a few of the guys have their faces on here somewhere in some snap shots from mem, i recall seeing my ugly mug on one of the pages at some stage, hence why i have the helmet on in my signature, much sexier that way :P.

[VXfan]

Actually quite a few of the guys have their faces on here somewhere in some snap shots from mem, i recall seeing my ugly mug on one of the pages at some stage, hence why i have the helmet on in my signature, much sexier that way :P.
LOL!
I'm not hiding either,I have links to both my online photo albums in my signature which holds a multitude of pics of my ugly mug!:D
Cheers,
Tony.

[Martin Thomas]

Or if you're a total newbie when you sign up, you put your full name in the part that asks for a username....:rolleyes:

And yes. Its a public domain, with few rules and such but one can still approach conversations with some sort of decorum.

[Dingo]

In response to Leigh and Dingo :
On the one hand you have questioned Younglions post in response to his comments about "hands in pockets". I believe his post was suggesting that certain "senior members" believe they are above reproach in how they deal with certain members.
I made no comment towards younglion's initial post regarding having anyone hand in Biante's pocket. And I'm sure younglion can defend himself if/when he chooses to return.

I would like to point out that this forum is in the public domain and as such has NO resemblance to the "local hotel". Nor (to the best of my knowledge) has Biante set any guidelines that require "newbies" to tread lightly until they are accepted on this site.
You wouldn't walk into the local hotel and start mouthing off, would you? Having an opinion is completely acceptable, as long as it is expressed in a manner that cannot be construed as mere whining. Would you expect to walk into a social environment (which this is) and state your opinions without at least making them rational?

Your replies highlight the exact situation I was refering to and I find it dissapointing that "senior members" would even make these type of suggestions. If neither of you have any right to moderation (as authorised by Biante) I would suggest your comments are well outside acceptable protocol. Having been a member of this forum for over 12 months I would ask at what point one can be considered a regular.
I would say it's also well outside acceptable protocol to call into question the character and intentions of "senior members" on the forum. Freedom of speech is a right, and when exercised correctly it results in enlightenment and enjoyment for those involved. Exercised incorrectly, and it can lead to the right being taken away.

I guess time will tell who was right in their opinion. The beauty of this forum is that we all hide behind an alias and no-one really knows who it is at the other end of the keyboard. There may just be a few "red faces" if that ever changed.
There are a lot of people who I've met on this forum face-to-face, and most of them will tell you that my persona does not change one iota, whether it's on this forum, via email exchange, or via RL conversation.

[Tumbo]

There are a lot of people who I've met on this forum face-to-face, and most of them will tell you that my persona does not change one iota, whether it's on this forum, via email exchange, or via RL conversation.

I'll vouch for that mate

[Leigh]

One should be less antagonistic (note that one can still be controverisial) in ones post if they do not want retaliation...re-read Xtreems (http://forums.biante.com.au/showpost.php?p=143473&postcount=655) first post (which has been saved from deletion as it appears as a quote in another post) and convince me that the use of swear words and the general word use is not antagonistic and inciting a response? Albeit a heated one!
As a matter of clarification, this statement was intended for all, not just newbies...although I probably caused that confusion with the separate preceeding paragraph in my original post...

I would also suggest that somebody who posts daily is more regular than somebody who posts weekly (my doc told me that in relation to something else;))...but I don't recall using the word regular.

Cheers

[ratbag-racing]

I agree not everyone will get along on here (just like life); I have found 99% of members to be helpful. I did find however when I first joined the forum I did find some of the “older” members comments intimidating, but soon learned to “let it go”. I now feel free to say & post whatever is on my mind as long as nothing is a personal attack.
I even find the little digs quite funny & for most part this is a great forum.Lastly I do still see a few inconsistencies for newbie’s & one or two senior members that bug me , but life goes on & lets all enjoy it.

[xtreem2001]

In light of the recent responses it would appear that some members believe I was guilty of "personal attacks". If anybody involved in the particular thread took offence to my posts on a personal level I sincerly apologise. It was never my intention to belittle or single out any individual member of this forum.

My opinion is exactly that and wont be swayed by a "popularity contest". However, I saw little point in continuing the discussion as it was obvious that the general concensus on this site is substantially different to those of mine.
The posts were removed simply to dissolve what I believed was going to eventuate into nothing more than a slanging match. I did not REMOVE THEM to cause further drama and simply explained my actions to the Biante moderators in an open letter so that EVERY member was aware of the situation.

I have always said what is on my mind and taught my children to do likewise. For the record I am a passionate motor sport fan and have followed the careers of ALL Aussies overseas, not just Mark Webber. I have saved all relevant postings to the Formula one thread and will edit them before putting then back into the thread. This action is not designed to open old wounds but as some members have said they felt I had no substance to my postings it will give me the chance to explain my opinion in greater detail.

[wayno]

Mate, water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. Why don't we all just move on! :D

[BILLFORD1]

My head hurts !! Oh & Nathan, my cheques in the mail too !! Cheers :D:D

[MarkHM]

Goodness me, you go away for a couple of days and the whole world falls apart! Life's too short to take things too seriously!!

[Tumbo]

Good to see you back Mark; you didn't miss much lol :D