Should toyota quit f1?

[lexoto]

I think toyota is wasting their time and money in f1 because they have got no chance of being world champions..........
They should go touring car racing, maybe stick a v8 in the aurion and join the v8 supercars circus.........
But what do you think???????????????

[tonynz]

Thet are racing NASCAR next year

[VXfan]

I think they should have a crack at the V8's personally.Obviously though,they'll have to remember that they cannot become too successful or they will be banned.:rolleyes:
Cheers,
Tony.

[vr-x3500]

I think they should have a crack at the V8's personally.Obviously though,they'll have to remember that they cannot become too successful or they will be banned.:rolleyes:
Cheers,
Tony.

The powers that be would have to let them in first, which i don't think they'll do because they might make holden and ford look bad, and if they let one more in the flood gates would open and everyone would want in. Back to group A days we go which probably wouldn't be a bad thing

[lexoto]

But do you think they should quit f1 ????????????????

[Holden2003]

Toyota should not give up in Formula 1. You can see how high profile F1 is worldwide when most news stations report the F1 results and not V8 results.
It would look real bad though for Toyota if they pulled out of F1 with no results.

F1 racing in March though compared Toyota F1 to tv Franchise Idol. "A souless , global franchise contriving short term successes and appealing only to... well who exactly". I think you could not get a better comparison then that,

[lukey73]

think toyota is wasting their time and money in f1 because they have got no chance of being world champions..........
They should go touring car racing, maybe stick a v8 in the aurion and join the v8 supercars circus.........
But what do you think???????????????


Based on that then so should Honda!

[1370]

Toyota belong in F1.

It won't be long now before they become the largest automotive company in the world. By sticking with their F1 programme through thick and thin, they show that they are not complacent and are open to innovation. They already make fantastic road cars, but one should never rest on their laurels.

[Pug205]

Id like to see Toyota succeed in F1 and Honda too for that matter.

I do think they are approaching it wrong though. Like BAR use to by just throwing money at it and not really forming a strong team with a sense passion and desire to win. Just a team waiting and expecting it all to come to them.

Renault has proven that large amounts of money are not needed to win.

As for the V8 thing - Id love to see any other car in the series! It wont happen but it would be great to see some other players in the game. Bring in Mitsubishi as well Id say.

[toddy05]

Here here, all in favour say I!!!!Love the Holden V Ford stuff but some variety and competition from other manufacturers would certainly liven it up. Control chassis, diff, dearbox and suspension and a choice of control engines and then stick whatever body (within limits) ya want on it and off we go,.....We have most of those control things anyways....

As for F1, persistence will reward them but at what cost!

[xtreem2001]

If you are asking why Toyota are in Formula one the same question would surely apply to ALL teams currently competing in the F1 paddock. But, then you can also ask WHY did Australia bother going to the Soccer World Cup when everyone knew they could not possibly win the Cup.

There is an old saying " You have to be in it to win it" and that applies in Formula one just as it does in anything. I wonder if in 20 years time we will be asking whether Holden and Ford should also be competing in Formula one. Then again we could also be asking how on earth did KIA manage to jag it's first F1 win at Bathurst.

The beauty about the future is that "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE".

[toddy05]

I have no doubt Toyota will be successful at it. They will spend what it takes to do it even if the amount they spend could raise a third world poverty stricken country into health and prosperity...At what cost and will it be worth it? I am sure they will deem it so. Tis a matter of time.

[lexoto]

I don't think toyota make fantastic road cars,adequate ones at the moment until we see and drive the new camry and aurion that should change.
Toyota should get back to rallying or touring car racing.
And they should build new versions of the classic cars , the celica and supra instead of just sedans.

[singer]

It really depends on your definition of success. If winning a GP is a success then Honda already have succeeded to win GP's in the 60's & 70's

As for Toyota, they threw Heaps of $$$$ at TTE to become a world champion rally winning outfit until they were caught cheating then they pulled the pin & went to Indy/Champcar & threw even more $$$$ at that before taking bat & ball & going home.

IMHO, they had a reasonable F1 Team to start with & the Team should have been left alone to gel/mesh for a couple of years. Meddling by upper management trying to macro manage a Team does not make for HARMONY. It makes people jumpy having to watch their back all the time.

I think that Toyota's involvement in F1 will be short lived


Id like to see Toyota succeed in F1 and Honda too for that matter.

I do think they are approaching it wrong though. Like BAR use to by just throwing money at it and not really forming a strong team with a sense passion and desire to win. Just a team waiting and expecting it all to come to them.

Renault has proven that large amounts of money are not needed to win.

As for the V8 thing - Id love to see any other car in the series! It wont happen but it would be great to see some other players in the game. Bring in Mitsubishi as well Id say.

[vr-x3500]

But do you think they should quit f1 ????????????????

no i don't think they should quit F1, Renault was once the easy beats of F1 now look at them besides if everyone pulled out who wasn't getting decent results we'd have another championship with 2 manufactures in it and who wants that???

[brchi17]

Some interesting comments in here & I would suggest that just having Toyota involved in F1 is good for motorsport. It would certainly say something if the worlds richest manufacturer wasn't involved in what is the pinnacle of motorsport.

I think in time they should come good, but I'd be shocked if I see a Toyota world champion within the next 5 as they're a long way from it at present, my personal view.

As for their road cars, while I don't find them exciting nor fantastic, you'd be hard pressed to find a motor mechanic or older member of our population that does not sing the praises of Toyota from a reliability point of view.

cheers,

[Tumbo]

Remember as well that Toyota manufacture Lexus which are highly regarded and develop numerous innovative technologies which in turn are passed down to the cheaper cars and improve road safety. As for Toyota quiting F1; who would one rather see Toyota racing and standing a chance of matching the top teams or another Midland????? Simple answer in my honest opinion :rolleyes:

[Andrew]

Toyota should leave F1 because they have no chance of being world champions? You must be joking.

I will lay my cards on the tabel - I am a very passionate and committed Toyota F1 fan [yep, we do exist, although there aren't many of us ;-) ]
They have not necessarily gone about things the right way up to now.

They need a team principal that can lead them, and unfortunately, Toyota has a corporate board type of management - even in the F1 team.

Their engine is fine, but the aero needs a bit more work. Investing in a second wind tunnel (which should be finished soon) will sharpen their development and the accuracy of their data.

The tyres have been a big problem this years, as they didn;t come to terms with the switch to Bridgestone as well as Williams. Ferrari of course have many years of experience with them. But since Toyota started generating some temperature in their Bridgestones, their pace has picked up remarkably. Remember Bahrain and Malaysai? Shocking. Indianapolis and Magny Cours? Far better.

Toyota should have pitched for better drivers and not simply re-signed Ralf and Jarno. Both can show great pace, but don't have the pure hunger or speed of a Webber, Raikkonen, Alonso and Michael. I think pitching for Webber alongside Jarno would have been better....

The team is coming to terms with F1 slowly. Probably too slowly for many (myself included), and this year certainly feels like a retrograde step compared to 2005. But I am confident that the results will come. No-one goes into F1 on a 3-4 year cycle and blitzes the field. So those who think Toyota should have must be kidding themselves. Admittedly, their (enormous) budget should get more points than what they have earned. Even I can acknowledge and understand that!

But Toyota need to be in F1. They are a global player, the most cash-rich car company in the world. They need it for their image, to sell cars, and to prove to everyone that they do more than make Corollas.

They have a good team of people - not experienced in F1 terms, but they are as committed and enthusiatic, and work as hard as anyone else in pit lane. And I believe they will climb to the top of the heap at some stage. Whether that is next year or 5 years' time, I don't know.

As for V8 Supercars? I'd love to see it too, as the Ford v Holden thing leaves me cold. It is close racing, but I have no particular affinity with either manufacturer. I would love to see Ford v Holden v Toyota v Mitsubishi. That would be a great spectacle!

[VXfan]

Bring back the GTR's eh Andrew?;)
Hope u had a great birthday yesterday mate.:)
Cheers,
Tony.

[Andrew]

Well, GT-R's don't work unless they do what the Japanese did to them - make them rear drive only. The 4WD is simply too effective....

So Tony.......l'd love it, but no unfortunately....

And thanks for the wishes my friend!

[Patterson]

Why don't we just pull all the teams that haven't won this year? Or in the last 2 years?? Make for an exciting category.

In all seriousness, I think they should stay. The more the merrier. No-one wants to see a Formula 1 series with 2 or 3 teams.

I'm sure Toyota will win a race eventually. When I say sure, I mean they might...maybe.

[Leigh]

But Toyota need to be in F1. They are a global player, the most cash-rich car company in the world. They need it for their image, to sell cars, and to prove to everyone that they do more than make Corollas.

I think this sums up why Toyota are there in the first place...advertising!

I don't think Toyota will rest until they can say they have won a world championship either...one just has to look at the recent Honda ads to see how aggressive the Japanese can be in selling the success!

[monarocveightz]

The powers that be would have to let them in first, which i don't think they'll do because they might make holden and ford look bad, and if they let one more in the flood gates would open and everyone would want in. Back to group A days we go which probably wouldn't be a bad thing

Yes i would like to see a change , it would be good to have different cars in the field instead of just Holden VS Ford- i would still go for Holden though

[wayno]

Toyota in f1 is great and I hope they stay for a long, long time. I also want them to be winners.
They have done a reasonable job so far, but they haven't put all the pieces of the puzzle together yet. A top quality driver would be a good start.
To even put f1 and V8 parade racing in the same sentance is drawing a bit of a long bow to me.

[Patterson]

Yes i would like to see a change , it would be good to have different cars in the field instead of just Holden VS Ford- i would still go for Holden though

I think it would be good to get some other cars in there too.

If Toyota are as good as they keep telling us, they should clean up against the Mitsubishis and Fords.....

[acpl]

im not a fan of japanese cars in the australian series, i also dont think a front wheel drive four pot would fit the v8supercars style. but how about the chrysler 300c or new 4 door dodge charger, bring back the big three. dalmier chrysler would have better luck building the new charger in their adelaide plant than the magna 380.

[1370]

im not a fan of japanese cars in the australian series, i also dont think a front wheel drive four pot would fit the v8supercars style. but how about the chrysler 300c or new 4 door dodge charger, bring back the big three. dalmier chrysler would have better luck building the new charger in their adelaide plant than the magna 380.

I'd be happy if there were any Australian cars in the Australian series. Why it is acceptable to cheer on the yanks and not manufacturers from our neighbouring countries?

And who said anything about 4-pots? All Mitsu (i.e., Daimler Chrysler) or Toyota need to do is find a current, high-tech V8 from their current line up, detune it a bit to something resembling a '60s tractor and slap a coffee table on the boot of their cars and bingo, they'd have something close to a "blueprint" V8SC. At least you will have more badges to to cheer on then...

[Chev_350]

All Mitsu (i.e., Daimler Chrysler) or Toyota need to do is find a current, high-tech V8 from their current line up, detune it a bit to something resembling a '60s tractor

Toyota races in NASCAR (trucks this year, Cup and BGN next year) they have a motor at their disposal.

[Esses]

Some interesting comments in here & I would suggest that just having Toyota involved in F1 is good for motorsport. It would certainly say something if the worlds richest manufacturer wasn't involved in what is the pinnacle of motorsport.

I think in time they should come good, but I'd be shocked if I see a Toyota world champion within the next 5 as they're a long way from it at present, my personal view.

As for their road cars, while I don't find them exciting nor fantastic, you'd be hard pressed to find a motor mechanic or older member of our population that does not sing the praises of Toyota from a reliability point of view.

cheers,


Less of the "older" in there!:D You'll also find MOST of the Van & Ute-driving world are Toyota fans. Personally, my '91 Hiace was THE most reliable vehicle I've ever seen, let alone owned. Not to mention versatile, as much at home hauling freight as tearing off to Qld. Mine did both.:)
Back on subject, F1 needs makes like Toyota. They'll learn. Eventually.:D
V8SC would benefit too. Let's have Mitsubishi, Nissan & hell, yes, KIA too!:D

[toddy05]

I Love my 1980 Corolla KE55 1.3L. Built well and to last....

[singer]

Let's have Mitsubishi, Nissan & hell, yes, KIA too!:D


Renault own the majority of Nissan & Ford own a good Chunk of Kia.

I have it on good authority (NCM Dealer Principal) Nissan/Renault both will eventually run the same platforms for their small/medium/large car & further more the life expectancy will be limited to 150,000kms. That engine/transmission modules will be sealed even down to spark plugs. The only thing an owner will be able to do is change the oil (once every 20,000kms).:mad:

Talk about a junk market:rolleyes:

Should be in Topic Changing Thread

My Singers are over 50 years old (almost 60) & still going & I can keep them going for as long as I want to

[1370]

Ken,

Ford don't own Kia. They are owned by Hyundai.

As for cars that last forever, what exactly is the use of that? Technology leaves such cars behind at a rapid pace. Australia traditionally has had a very old average car age (blighting our streets). This is not a good thing. There are altogether too many oil-burning death traps out there. If you look at the more advanced countries of Europe of Asia, cars have to be replaced much sooner. If you look at small cars today, with the right combination of airbags and other gadgets, they can have crash ratings of up to 4 stars (or better in case of the Suzuki Swift)! The newbies are infinitely better from an environmental standpoint as well.

Being a city dweller, I average about 14000-15000km per year. A life of 150000km would equal to 10 years given my requirements. I reckon that's pretty good. I sure as hell won't want something older than that for daily commuting purposes.

[monarocveightz]

im not a fan of japanese cars in the australian series, i also dont think a front wheel drive four pot would fit the v8supercars style. but how about the chrysler 300c or new 4 door dodge charger, bring back the big three. dalmier chrysler would have better luck building the new charger in their adelaide plant than the magna 380.


I think the Chrysler 300C looks Volvo-esq- i think it looks ugly and brick like- but i don't mind whats under the bonnet though- be good to have it as a V8SC

[Esses]

Renault own the majority of Nissan & Ford own a good Chunk of Kia.

I have it on good authority (NCM Dealer Principal) Nissan/Renault both will eventually run the same platforms for their small/medium/large car & further more the life expectancy will be limited to 150,000kms. That engine/transmission modules will be sealed even down to spark plugs. The only thing an owner will be able to do is change the oil (once every 20,000kms).:mad:

Talk about a junk market:rolleyes:

Should be in Topic Changing Thread

My Singers are over 50 years old (almost 60) & still going & I can keep them going for as long as I want to


I'm not sure on the Ford/Kia link these days. The relationship cooled after Kia dropped the Festiva & introduced the Rio (great little car - even better now).
Kia is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Hyundai, which means:A/ Hyundai now owns virtually the whole Korean car market & B/ Hopefully QC at Kia will improve.:)

New/Old cars. I'm actually really enjoying myself tinkering like mad on my 16 yo Patrol. Good old-fashioned 4WD.

[1370]

I think the Chrysler 300C looks Volvo-esq- i think it looks ugly and brick like- but i don't mind whats under the bonnet though- be good to have it as a V8SC

That's an insult to Volvo...

[singer]

That's an insult to Volvo...
Steve it remains my understanding that Ford have not divested themselves of their share of Kia, however Kia Execs were not happy when Ford would not bail them out.

Blame the Large US Auto manufacturers as they want access to technologies which have been made by others, so they buy the Cos to gain access to the technologies (ie for every Porsche engine made, Porsche pay a royalty to Mitsubishi).

Jaguar, Aston Martin & Volvo are majority owned by Ford. Saab/Scania & Subaru are partly owned by GM (not sure of %)

I'm not sure as to the % market share that Daimler Chrysler, VW or BMW have, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it is significant.

And the reason we are all being screwed by Ford/GM is because that over a 3rd of the cost of a car is going to fund their very generous retirement schemes including health benefits to workers hired in the 50s, 60s & 70s.

[Leigh]

...anyway, should Toyota remain in F1?

[singer]

Leigh,

Asked & answered by me on page 2

Topic Hijacking again, but to ask a question of 1370, just how much energy is used when making 1 of these NEW pieces of junk & what does that do for the environment ?

At least with my older cars, I can Strip them down & rebuild them which virtually makes them as good as when they left the production line so they are RECYCLED. Which is better?

I can't say how my Singer's would deal with NCAP test however I do know that Morgan, which have a similar build technology have a good NCAP rating.

[brchi17]

.....Subaru are partly owned by GM (not sure of %)......

Not for long, apparenlty it has either been sold or is in the process of being sold, I just can't rememeber who it was that buying it, whether it was FHI or somone else....

...anyway, should Toyota remain in F1?

Certainly Leigh, I think F1 needs to have the likes of Toyota competiting in F1, it's just a shame they think their driver line up is the best it can be, as I can't see any of the value they put in the wrong Schu :confused: .....

[singer]

Not for long, apparenlty it has either been sold or is in the process of being sold, I just can't rememeber who it was that buying it, whether it was FHI or somone else....
.....
FHI are the parent Co with a majority shareholding of Subaru.

The point of the excercise is now GM have the technology they were seeking

[Leigh]

Leigh,

Asked & answered by me on page 2

Topic Hijacking again, but to ask a question of 1370, just how much energy is used when making 1 of these NEW pieces of junk & what does that do for the environment ?

Just paying you back for last week:p

On the recycling issue, there is a point where building a new car is better environmentally...depends on the vehicle and what advances have been made since its release etc.

Brad, FHI always owned 100% of Subaru...Up until recently (>6 months ago) GM owned a fair chunk of FHI, so by default owned Subaru...The sale of FHI was part of the multi billion dollar loss that GM made last financial year AFAIK they sold it back "real cheap"...