CC 65E Bathurst Winner

[A9L]

I picked mine up today.
Looks good not that I have the Biante one to compare but one thing I noticed is the roof is more rounded at the front piller it almost looks like it has a top chop from the front! (I dont have a real car to check which is more acurate)

Anyone else got one yet

[Jungle Boy]

I also picked mine up today. I have the Biante version as well. This version produced by Classics is unbelievable...the detail is incredible....absolutely A Grade. Even if you have the Biante version, i would certainly pick up one of these for your collection. You will most certainly be kicking yourself if you do not!

[james]

So what to do :put the B 65e in the Moff collection and buy the CC one for the Bathurst winners??????????

[1370]

Yeap,

I will pick mine up tomorrow. I have the French 64E and the 65E will look fantastic sitting next to its sister car.

[Allthingsmall]

What sort of production numbers did CC's produce?

[A9L]

6,500

[Allthingsmall]

Thanx, hopefully I can track one down.

[AmonFan]

Thanx, hopefully I can track one down.


I don't think you will have a problem :)

[the_goldie]

So what to do :put the B 65e in the Moff collection and buy the CC one for the Bathurst winners??????????

This is true, but the Biante 65E is not offically part of the Moffat collection - but I see your point :)

From the photos I have seen the level of detail on the CC version looks AMAZING!

[Oh Five]

6,500

Thats alot, isnt it? i thought CC did alot less than that on most of their releases. I will probably get one for the sake of getting one, but i think it is unfair to compare models that have 8 years difference between them

[zigi08]

Got mine Thursday! not bad at all...had to get one since I missed out on the Biante 65E and 64E but hey, one down one to go!

[fomoco04]

I for one won't be selling my Original 1:18 65E. After looking at the CC version IT does have beter detail than the Biante version but IMO there is something very wrong with the front wheel arch profile and the roof line looke too rounded.

[monarocveightz]

Got mine today and i am very happy with it

[daveZ27]

Look forward every week to the newsletter to see what I can be tempted with.
Too much temptation and not enough $$ :(
Cheers,
Dave.

[Nobes]

Too much temptation and not enough $$ :(
Cheers,
Dave.

But credit is a wonderful thing :) (in moderation;) ):D

[singer]

Too much temptation and not enough $$ :(
Cheers,
Dave.


AGREED

[Nick Short]

Got mine today - it's fantastic and the roofline looks perfect to me. Essentially it's an evolution of what Biante pioneered with the first mould 8 years ago - same shape but more detail. I love the proper scissor bonnet hinges, complete with springs! I have no doubt that the future will be bright for collectors of both companies' models.

[TAG05]

I am eagerly awaiting delivery in the mail either tomorrow or Tuesday. I can't wait... I too missed out on the Biante version as I did not start collecting Bathurst winners until about 18 months ago....

[fordmad17]

I'm just happy to finally have one

[castkrazy]

I'm just happy to finally have one

I'll go along with that , and at RRP makes it even sweeter . :)

[redss350]

I for one won't be selling my Original 1:18 65E. After looking at the CC version IT does have beter detail than the Biante version but IMO there is something very wrong with the front wheel arch profile and the roof line looke too rounded.
YES I AGREE THE CAR LOOKS VERY BAD

[Footy]

YES I AGREE THE CAR LOOKS VERY BAD
So tell us more.

[Hey Charger]

Got mine over the weekend and inspected it immediately...I was very impressed with the detail & improvements.... as one would expect with an 8yr gap between releases and hence credit to CC...tho a couple of minor things did disappoint me due to the fact that so much literature is out there that these oversights shouldn't have happened

1) The 65E on the bonnet isn’t positioned correctly should be more forward
2) The Ferodo 500 font isn't quite correct…..too fat on the model
3) The Colour appears to be darker than the Biante version which I believe is correct…..tho I do stand to be corrected
4) great detail let down by poor finish…..paint job was poor...rejected 3 models when by the 4th got one that was acceptable...common faults were bubbled paint, flaking paint or excessive glue overspill around the window sills

Ps Why isn't the Biante 65e part of the Moffat collection? Its got a signed certificate so "un-offcially" its in, in my opinion


Cheers

[ferrari fan]

65E was before the Moffat collection was thought off.
It is officially not part but unofficially it IS!
Trevor Young made the moulds for the XY and produced the white, the red and the 65E model from it.
Trevor pioneered the making of these models and the efford to get the rear doors to open was a MAJOR exercise all funded by Trevor.
I remember the conversations/explanations clearly.
These were exiting times of model making pioneering.
Seems so easy now, but then it was a engineering marvel.
Trevor would not accept bringing the model out with no opening rear doors.

[Timshaw]

Anyone know if CC plan to do the #1D? I missed out on this one.

[ferrari fan]

CC could do better make the Perkins winners instead of duplicating models.
Most of us who collect Bathurst winners in 1/18, would jump at the news of the missing Bathurst winners going in development.
When will the 2006 Winner be available in 1/18 scale?

[castkrazy]

Anyone know if CC plan to do the #1D? I missed out on this one.

Anything is possible I guess but I wouldn't necessarily bank on it , there are three on Ebay at the moment .

http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dll?sofocu s=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C12&from=R10&satitle=Allan+Moffat+1D&sacat=27157%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=5043&ga10244=10425&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=3%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search


Cheers Jim .

[1370]

CC could do better make the Perkins winners instead of duplicating models.
Most of us who collect Bathurst winners in 1/18, would jump at the news of the missing Bathurst winners going in development.
When will the 2006 Winner be available in 1/18 scale?


The duplication is good. It means collections can be brought up to latest standards.

The '06 winner is due in March 2007.

[Leigh]

The duplication is good. It means collections can be brought up to latest standards.
True...but I personally would prefer a complete collection to bring up to modern standards:p;)

[dagsxr6]

Have been told that Lowndes/Whincup bathurst should be out march,april 07.
Cheers

[vr-x3500]

I picked mine up over the weekend and I've gotta say I'm very happy with it. The detail is fantastic (which is to be expected 8 years after the Biante release).The number on the bonnet could be a little further towards the front of the car but hey I'm willing to live with that and I'm glad i didn't have to pay the amounts Biante's original release was fetching on ebay.

[monarocveightz]

4) great detail let down by poor finish…..paint job was poor...rejected 3 models when by the 4th got one that was acceptable...common faults were bubbled paint, flaking paint or excessive glue overspill around the window sills

Cheers[/quote]

I noticed this problem as well, a few that i saw had flaking paint, other than that i was impressed with them.

[cooper1117]

Question for anyone who just purchased the CC version. How much did you pay RRP for the car??

I was looking at some web sites and there is a CC distributor selling them over the web for $350. I imagine no is paying that RRP.

[GSRJET]

Check this out
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Biante-MOFFAT-65E-FORD-FALCON-BATHURST-WINNER_W0QQitemZ170052082096QQihZ007QQcategoryZ271 57QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[GTR XU-1]

Check this out
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Biante-MOFFAT-65E-FORD-FALCON-BATHURST-WINNER_W0QQitemZ170052082096QQihZ007QQcategoryZ271 57QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thats a big price drop, I wonder if they will go lower :confused:

[Oh Five]

Rrp $195

[brchi17]

Check this out
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Biante-MOFFAT-65E-FORD-FALCON-BATHURST-WINNER_W0QQitemZ170052082096QQihZ007QQcategoryZ271 57QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thats a big price drop, I wonder if they will go lower :confused:

still too expensive for me, hopefully in time they'll drop some more, as I definitely would prefer the Biante one :D

[malscar]

Went through 4 as well. Rejected one that with the paint, it had grains of sand(?) in it, next one had part of the chrome gutter strip flattened, next was not painted on the leading edge of the bonnet next to the chrome strip. Last one was OK. I was starting to wonder if I could find one without basic finishing faults. Also notice that the boot can not open as far as a real one? With the amount of detail in the bonnet hinges and such, the boot should have been easy to get right.

Is it just me or are we starting to see more quality issues with the 1/18ths than previously?

[Mickcals]

Well i got mine last Friday.

The only problem with it is a slight gap between the bonnet and the left front quarter panel, it about two millimetres bigger than the right side.

No biggy really

[1370]

Question for anyone who just purchased the CC version. How much did you pay RRP for the car??

I was looking at some web sites and there is a CC distributor selling them over the web for $350. I imagine no is paying that RRP.

65E $185
64E $299

[Allthingsmall]

I got mine today, very happy with the model overall....BUT....one of the rear suspensions is set lower than the other three wheels so it's not sitting level. Back to the retailer I go.

[GTR XU-1]

I got mine today, very happy with the model overall....BUT....one of the rear suspensions is set lower than the other three wheels so it's not sitting level. Back to the retailer I go.

Same here, with mine it has red paint scraped over the 65E decal on the side, back to the retailer :mad:

[diecastaddict]

Check this out
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Biante-MOFFAT-65E-FORD-FALCON-BATHURST-WINNER_W0QQitemZ170052082096QQihZ007QQcategoryZ271 57QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Thank you, been looking for ages, me think very good buy?:D

[Hey Charger]

Thank you, been looking for ages, me think very good buy?:D

Good buy...when you get it home..could you check if there is a retailers sticker on the inside flap...cheers

[diecastaddict]

Good buy...when you get it home..could you check if there is a retailers sticker on the inside flap...cheers
sure can charger, what would that signify?

[Hey Charger]

sure can charger, what would that signify?


Thanks for that .....the Cert number seems mighty close to the one I originally owned couple of years ago..and the sellers from Melbourne which slightly narrows it down...it had a sticker advertising Model Mania where I originally bought it from...so it'll be somewhat like a "6 degrees of seperation" for this model..

Cheers

[zeitgeist]

I've dealt with that seller on a number of occasions ... started corresponding personally with him after that. Top fellow!

BC

[Hey Charger]

Was on the other side of the fence..theres a thread "Moffat 65E Faults"...legitimate issues raised by a collector.....the responce from one of the members was pure gold showing what a "tool" he is with such an attitude

[ferrari fan]

People get carried away behind the ivories, (including myself), sometimes.
This shows most times how deep the Collectors bug realy has penetrated.
Meeting face to face, one would think that we would get on rather well, have Common interest, or simply turn around and walk away.
There is also the "Generation gap" issue sometimes.
Lets just try to help/entertain each other here and forget about the rest.

[diecastaddict]

Good buy...when you get it home..could you check if there is a retailers sticker on the inside flap...cheers
No mate, no sticker on flaps

[Footy]

Was on the other side of the fence..theres a thread "Moffat 65E Faults"...legitimate issues raised by a collector.....the responce from one of the members was pure gold showing what a "tool" he is with such an attitude

It does make interesting reading!:D

[LC Torana]

I haven’t seen one in the flesh so is hard to make a judgement,

From photos the 65E on the bonnet is’nt forward enough and the ALLAN MOFFAT on the guards looks either a little large or maybe a little thicker than it should be. The colour looks a little dark but a photo’s colour can vary greatly from the real thing so it's not really a good guide to judge colour.

As I said I haven’t seen one in the flesh so these are just observations from photos and is only an opinion based on that, I’ll need to see one in the flesh….

[malscar]

Here is a better photo of the car showing the blacked out area behind the shaker, and the position of the 65E. The spoiler needs to be angled and not flat like in the model.

I have also found that moffat did the same to bonnet of the '72 car. I know the 1/43 is therefore incorrect, is the 1/18 the same?

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5388/workeb5.th .jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=workeb5. jpg)

[Nobes]

Here is a better photo of the car showing the blacked out area behind the shaker, and the position of the 65E. The spoiler needs to be angled and not flat like in the model.

I have also found that moffat did the same to bonnet of the '72 car. I know the 1/43 is therefore incorrect, is the 1/18 the same?


Are you asking about the position of the 65E? Not sure from what you wrote above what you are saying is incorrect with the 1:43?

[malscar]

No. What I was saying is that Moffat's Bathurst cars of 1971 and 1972 had the same blackout on the rear of the bonnet. The 1/43 released a few months ago has the stripes all the way to the windscreen, but should be the same as the '71 with that area blacked out. I was asking if the 1/18 version was the same.

[Nobes]

Ah OK.

The Biante 71 65E 1:18 has stripes all the way to the windscreen. Don't have a 1:18 72 car.

[Hey Charger]

No mate, no sticker on flaps

Thanks for getting back to me

Cheers

[Hey Charger]

Here is a better photo of the car showing the blacked out area behind the shaker, and the position of the 65E. The spoiler needs to be angled and not flat like in the model.

I have also found that moffat did the same to bonnet of the '72 car. I know the 1/43 is therefore incorrect, is the 1/18 the same?

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5388/workeb5.th .jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=workeb5. jpg)

Great pic..may I ask from your personal collection?

In my view this is how the 40th Ann version should look like...Moffat Fig waving flag....Signed Certificate....new gen of the XY..improved quality....hint hint Biante

[Leigh]

Here is a better photo of the car showing the blacked out area behind the shaker, and the position of the 65E. The spoiler needs to be angled and not flat like in the model.

I have also found that moffat did the same to bonnet of the '72 car. I know the 1/43 is therefore incorrect, is the 1/18 the same?


Not 100% convinced Mal...Even your picture shows a red line behind the shaker, albiet thinner than in front of the shaker...

Unlikely to be the water channel as suggested on another thread, as that would not show up on so many different angles...

My personal opinion at this moment is that both Biante and Classics got it wrong...

Would love to see an "aerial" shot...highly unlikely though:(

We may never know the answer to this one!

[vikings100]

Does it really matter.

[Nick Short]

Not 100% convinced Mal...Even your picture shows a red line behind the shaker, albiet thinner than in front of the shaker...

Unlikely to be the water channel as suggested on another thread, as that would not show up on so many different angles...

My personal opinion at this moment is that both Biante and Classics got it wrong...

Would love to see an "aerial" shot...highly unlikely though:(

We may never know the answer to this one!

On the CC forum there was a close-up aerial shot in colour that showed solid black all the way to the windscreen, but another b&w shot looked dark but slightly lighter than the surrounding black. Someone suggested (and it seems convincing) that originally the stripes went to the windscreen in conventional fashion, but then because of glare or something the rear part was sprayed black. Different film stock and different lighting would then either disguise the resprayed bit completely or allow some of the lighter red to show through.

[BIGJIM]

Just got home with mine, very happy with the goods. Bit of paint off here and there, and the tyres have a few white-ish marks, but apart from that its spot on. Who really cares if the decals arent in perfect position. Im just glad i didnt have to pay through the nose on evilbay to get my hands on one.
Another bathurst winner ticked off the list! :D

[Nobes]

Here are a few more screenies off the 71 DVD. Not the best, but put here so that each can make their own opinion.

[Nobes]

And this one.:)

[Leigh]

On the CC forum there was a close-up aerial shot in colour that showed solid black all the way to the windscreen, but another b&w shot looked dark but slightly lighter than the surrounding black. Someone suggested (and it seems convincing) that originally the stripes went to the windscreen in conventional fashion, but then because of glare or something the rear part was sprayed black. Different film stock and different lighting would then either disguise the resprayed bit completely or allow some of the lighter red to show through.
That's the sort of explanation that I was thinking along the lines of as well...b&w photography is fraught with danger depending on what filters were used during shooting and also during printing...but in colour, I wouldn't expect to see any red at all!

Screen shots are well, just screen shots...the crappy resolution and colour of the 1970's 8mm film is no substitute for the much mre technically advanced 35mm...

Vikings, to some yes, to others no...

[Nobes]

Unfortunately, it seems screenshots of the bonnet area off the films is about all we have to go by, unless someone can source better photographs.

Some people can see forests, others trees. In the end we have to satisfy ourselves what we see.

Might be a good question to ask Moffat himself if anyone ever gets the chance?

Was the stripe behind the shaker on the 71 cars blacked out on race day?

[malscar]

Not 100% convinced Mal...Even your picture shows a red line behind the shaker, albiet thinner than in front of the shaker...


Leigh, I will bring it down to the Island in a couple of weeks for you to look at. Looking closer at it, it could be the original body colour showing through a gap in the wiper panel. The book also has a shot of the '72 Bathurst car showing that it too did not have a stripe behind the shaker.

[brchi17]

maybe they copied the original original, the trax version, which has red in between the stripes after the shaker :D

[Leigh]

And this one.:)
That's actually a good shot...I think I've figured it out, and am leaning heavily on the side of "it is blacked out"...

Pitty the film has a "red" caste...

[Nobes]

That's actually a good shot...I think I've figured it out, and am leaning heavily on the side of "it is blacked out"...

Pitty the film has a "red" caste...

I think it was blacked out for some reason as you say. The DVD transfer isn't the best from the original source.

Hopefully a question to Allan will answer it.

[rex555]

Looking at the last picture Nobes posted it appears to be the same shade as the black backing of the 65 number on the bonnet which would point to after market 'blackout' being used. I know of someone who has a photo of the car on the mountain as Moffat went around with the chequered flag (different from the one on this thread) I'll try to check it out since that is a little more 'aerial' than other shots.

[CowboyMatt]

I don't know enough about the points of contention that have been discussed about this model, but the following photos on the autopics.com.au site might help answer your questions.

Seach under Bathurst 1971.

All Moffatt aerial photos.

468
71703 (b&w) - something weird stuck to / hanging from the front of the car.
71704 (b&w)
71743
71761
71808

Hope it helps.

[LC Torana]

The something weird is a cardboard box.... :D

[Brutesutes]

Unfortunately, it seems screenshots of the bonnet area off the films is about all we have to go by, unless someone can source better photographs.

Some people can see forests, others trees. In the end we have to satisfy ourselves what we see.

Might be a good question to ask Moffat himself if anyone ever gets the chance?

Was the stripe behind the shaker on the 71 cars blacked out on race day?I have the Steve Stathis GTHO book and the stripe is blacked out in the picture on race day, or the camera,s were **** in those days , or the photographer was **** on that day, Moffat,s red stripe behind the scoop was blacked out :cool:

[vikings100]

who cares, stop being picky.as if Moffat would remember if there was a bit of black piant on a car 35 years ago, get real ppl.

[Brutesutes]

who cares, stop being picky.as if Moffat would remember if there was a bit of black piant on a car 35 years ago, get real ppl.:argue: :computer: :gossip: :)

[whitlam]

:argue: :computer: :gossip:

I think you hit the nail right on the head there:smash:

[biante1948]

I think you'll find that the Red Stripes behind the shaker was "masked over with black tape " as the slots in the grill behind the bonnet on the XY are at consistent intervals from one side to the other. There is NO solid section 2-3 inches wide, as can be seen in Nobes photos there is solid section in the centre, the reason why I think it is/was some form of black race tape, not paint.

Some pictures I have of GTHO's and my XY Ute sitting in the shed have slots at equally spaced intervals with no solid section in the middle so I believe all XY's would have the same wiper cover panel.

[gab73]

Got mine today
well i'm not impressed, no quality control issues but if this model was to pension off biante's they have major issues.
Before i go on the only issue i have had with biante's xw/xy releases is their wheels and ride height apart from that to me their cast was pretty spot on apart from maybe their bumper bars.
Now the CC's release has adressed the ride height and to an extent the wheels but what on earth happened to the front grill and chrome indicator surrounds.
If you look at the car from the front their should be a gap between the top of the grill and the bonnet , which there is,this gap should continue between the top of the grill and the front left and right guards. well it doesnt ,instead there is a continuation of chrome between the grill and top guard mould.
The chrome mould on the top of the guards should continue down the side of the indicators. What happened to these??? someone forgot them?? dont get me started in the roof line.

To Biante address the issue with the wheel size/proportion if you have not done so and your mould will outlive CC.
Ohh they did do a good job with the extra detail under the hood but what's the point.

[XA Craig]

Ohh they did do a good job with the extra detail under the hood but what's the point.

Each to there own mate. If its such a bad model just return it and get your money back :) rather than enlighten us with all your abusive dribble.

[BIGJIM]

Each to there own mate. If its such a bad model just return it and get your money back :) rather than enlighten us with all your abusive dribble.

Well said Craig!

[diecastaddict]

Each to there own mate. If its such a bad model just return it and get your money back :) rather than enlighten us with all your abusive dribble.
Good call mate! You can find a fault with everything if you look hard enough!
You can lead a horse to water but cant make him drink, why didnt you do your quality control before you bought it?:furious3:

[gab73]

Abusive drabble, each to there own mate ???
Read my post i'm stating my opinion, we can still do this can't we????
If you don't like my comments ignore them get over it.

[the collector]

65E not a bad model for the detail, while its looks a little strange next to the biante XYs, can't complain to the tune of big $$$$$ for the biante 65e.

[LC Torana]

Each to there own mate. If its such a bad model just return it and get your money back :) rather than enlighten us with all your abusive dribble.

Not well said Craig!

[amiers]

i got mine today and i have no complaints at all. i think the detail is great. no paint problems. i like the little tool for opening doors and such.

[GTR XU-1]

i like the little tool for opening doors and such.

I am getting mine soon, what does the tool look like and how do you use it.

[amiers]

looks like a blunt screwdriver and its for opening doors and such. i used it on some pf the cars that have allways been a pain and it's great.!!!!

[toddy05]

wha great idea we could do with them particularly the ones with the windows up. Oh and the early Classic 1/18's too, I am still struggling to open the doors and those babies....

[Martin Thomas]

I have an ever increasing pile building up for chrissy. Dam my 'Tell you what, babe. How about we put all the cars being released close to chrissy under the tree' moment of weakness... I only hope I dont have a few of the issues others have had with paint chips and rubbing panels.

[BILLFORD1]

For those who are interested in correct details which distinguish one particular car from another, (simply fact not complaining)....A perusal of the VHS/DVD of "Racing History of Ford at The Great Race" shows without any shadow of doubt many times, both in the pits & on the track that the 65E car in 1971 & the 1D car in 1972 at Bathurst had a dark coloured piece of tape over the red stripe from rear of shaker to the windscreen trim strip. The 61E Baldwin Ford car in 71 had the same thing. Also Moffat employed the same tape on the 45D car, but not in the 61D XW nor on the #9 73 car. Used as an anti glare measure. As stated prior, an extremely easy fix for collectors wishing more accuracy re models not having this detail, cut a piece of black tape to size & apply.

[monarocveightz]

Can't belive i didn't notice it before, now it's to late, the shaker on my Falcon doesn't sit flat, it is leaning to the left hand side of the car, has anyone had this problem.

[fomoco04]

Can't belive i didn't notice it before, now it's to late, the shaker on my Falcon doesn't sit flat, it is leaning to the left hand side of the car, has anyone had this problem.


Maybe its pulling a few thousand RPM:D . No wait, it would be pulling to the right then I think. Must be an engine mount gone;)

[BILLFORD1]

Perhaps your model is of the car later in it's career when it tried to kick the concrete wall over at Adelaide International ??! :D

[monarocveightz]

Perhaps your model is of the car later in it's career when it tried to kick the concrete wall over at Adelaide International ??! :D


na it's just a typical Ford---always something wrong with them, hence the fix or repair daily remarks. Only joking Ford's are great cars and i am proud to have it in my collection as it's a piece of Australian motoring history. Other than that fault on mine i'm quite happy with the job CC did with it.

[TIC-302]

got mine, love it

[BILLFORD1]

na it's just a typical Ford---always something wrong with them, hence the fix or repair daily remarks. Only joking Ford's are great cars and i am proud to have it in my collection as it's a piece of Australian motoring history. Other than that fault on mine i'm quite happy with the job CC did with it. I was also going to say that the problem sounds like it should not be too much of a job to correct ???

[monarocveightz]

I was also going to say that the problem sounds like it should not be too much of a job to correct ???

it shouldn't be to difficult to correct but i don't think i will try--- known me i would probably stuff it up so she will stay as she is.

It doesn't really bother me that much you only notice it when you look at the shaker, hence why i didn't see it when i bought it and when i put it on display, i only noticed it during it's fortnightly "wash" (well dusting).

[Hey Charger]

Got my 65E back from CC yesterday and I have to say they fixed my model..so many thanks to them...so it may pay to contact CC and see if its deemed a serious fault that'll hopefully have them see it & fix it

Cheers

[Nobes]

Saw this car advertised in the Motorsports News Classifieds.

For $95,000, and an Historic Racer, might be a fun 1:1 to get!! :)

http://www.my105.com/classified.asp?id=6582

FALCON XY GTHO PH3 BIANTE SERIES 351C NEIL BURNS MOTOR HARROPFLOATER DIFF AND BRAKES PARIS ACOTTE WATTS AND SUSPENSION ARMS HARROP PEDDLE BOX FASTEST FALCON AT EASTER BATHURST AND WINTON 06 BUILT NEW AT XMAS 05/06 NO EXPENCE SPARED 2 MEETINGS OLD AND HAS MORE IN IThttp://www.my105.com/blackdot.gif

Sadly, I have no room in my garage for it :( :D

[Designer]

I also picked mine up today. I have the Biante version as well. This version produced by Classics is unbelievable...the detail is incredible....absolutely A Grade. Even if you have the Biante version, i would certainly pick up one of these for your collection. You will most certainly be kicking yourself if you do not!

I agree with CC's detail.
I was given both the Biante 2006 HRT cars of Kelly and Skaife and also the CC 2006 Jack Daniels car of Steve Richards....all 1:18
Not only is the CC car more accurate, it's far better built. I didn't realize there was such differences beteen the quality of the 2.

[biante11500]

I agree with CC's detail.
I was given both the Biante 2006 HRT cars of Kelly and Skaife and also the CC 2006 Jack Daniels car of Steve Richards....all 1:18
Not only is the CC car more accurate, it's far better built. I didn't realize there was such differences beteen the quality of the 2.
now that your eyes are open, welcome to the real world.

[younglion]

thats right just sit them side by side and make your own mind up. i knw who gets my vote

[bostonwayne]

Biantes car was made 8 years ago when cc was making toys and until cc get the roof to look like a xy rather than a Vw beetle I know which one I prefer as well

[redss350]

Biantes car was made 8 years ago when cc was making toys and until cc get the roof to look like a xy rather than a Vw beetle I know which one I prefer as well

here here, whole shape looks wrong front bumber, roof ,weel archers, etc.the detail looks great compared to biantes mined you it was 8 years ago detail has changed since then.even classics other cars xr xt doors to big,just havent got the shape right its a shame it would have been a fantastic model.etc

[ferrari fan]

People who know the shape of the real car do realise which one is the most accurate, never mind all the small detail.
If all the detail was also with the correct shape car the model would be sensational, sadly it is spread over the two.
since I display my cars I prefer the correct shape over the (small) detail.
**my oppinion**
If you prefer the CC cars, go to the CC website.

[Nick Short]

..and if you like Autoart go to the Autoart forum, if you like Minichamps go to the Minichamps forum.......I always thought this was a diecast collectors' forum, for discussion of all models. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Leigh]

..and if you like Autoart go to the Autoart forum, if you like Minichamps go to the Minichamps forum.......I always thought this was a diecast collectors' forum, for discussion of all models. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Have to agree with you there Nick...there's also the issue of limiting the number of forum's you want to be a member of etc...

[Chev_350]

I agree with CC's detail.
I was given both the Biante 2006 HRT cars of Kelly and Skaife and also the CC 2006 Jack Daniels car of Steve Richards....all 1:18
Not only is the CC car more accurate, it's far better built. I didn't realize there was such differences beteen the quality of the 2.

:rolleyes: and what do you know






:D just jokin

[Graeme]

I suppose I can't really make a comment about the actual thread title item without seeming biased ... but looking at the last few items above, I would suggest that Diecast is a little like Federal politics ... there seem to be the diehard (pun?) supporters of one major camp and then there are those of the other, not to mention the swinging voters ... and of course - and you won't find them contributing here - there are those who simply don't give a toss.

[LC Torana]

I have mostly Biante models, but I do have some CC models.

I buy mainly from Biante for some simple reasons, I don’t have a reliable local retailer for all of CC’s releases and Biante offers me good free information on planned releases and an easy way to get that information, and an easy way of purchasing their items directly from them, CC does not…

[zeitgeist]

Certain missteps like missing chrome pieces are easily identified and agreement surrounding these issues is usually mutual.

However, unless proven by measurements, when someone says "it just looks wrong", the ground from which such an accusation is launched is a little more shaky.

BC

[mick xu1]

I don't care who makes them......as a customer I have no loyalty to any brand... if a third player came into it and was better than what's already available then i would make that choice

I am thankful for both Company's producing these cars......the Goss Hardtop spoiler was not right so I had a choice put up with it or fix it.....I chose to fix it......with regards to the CC XY 65E....the roof line bothers me with the shape (in my opinion it's not right after watching the 2006 Muscle cars on Sat confirmed this in my mind)....So I have put it (CC)away and replaced it with my Biante 65E version.....end of story, the same people on both forums defened there respective favorite brands which is better CC or Biante for what ever reason thats there choice...but for some reason it seems to go round, and round, and round!! playing the same old song

Again we all have a Choice......i have made mine.... model collecting CC, Biante, Tax, who cares as long as you enjoy it

[ferrari fan]

..and if you like Autoart go to the Autoart forum, if you like Minichamps go to the Minichamps forum.......I always thought this was a diecast collectors' forum, for discussion of all models. Correct me if I'm wrong.
OK;My reading of the discussion.
One should rear and comprehend the top heading by which this forum goes.
*Biante Model cars - Australian Diecast Collectors Forum > Biante Model cars > Biante Forum* then subject heading!.
The constant plugging, promoting of direct competitors products and the slagging, belitteling/of Biante Products starts to wear a wee bit thin with me, just me, maybe nobody else, but with me.
We are guests here and do not contribute to the running of this forum other than by the direct sale of the BIANTE products!
I do have many other modelcar brands, but my collection is what it is due to the offerings of Biante products and their efforts in bringing Minichamps to Australia.

[zeitgeist]

If we take the 'Biante Forum' logic to the extreme, then we should eliminate the following threads as well:

What makes you happy/cheeses you off
What makes you sad
The Ashes
Happy Holidays
V8 Supercar postings that don't specifically involve models

need I go on?

But, perhaps your quarrel is solely aimed at posts discussing competitors.

Any thorough discussion of Biante's offerings should occasionally involve an evaluation against their competition; even in cases where the competitors MAY have released a superior product. If Biante's offerings are up to the task, they will survive the evaluation and probably be better for it.

BC

[Leigh]

OK;My reading of the discussion.
One should rear and comprehend the top heading by which this forum goes.
*Biante Model cars - Australian Diecast Collectors Forum > Biante Model cars > Biante Forum* then subject heading!.
The constant plugging, promoting of direct competitors products and the slagging, belitteling/of Biante Products starts to wear a wee bit thin with me, just me, maybe nobody else, but with me.
We are guests here and do not contribute to the running of this forum other than by the direct sale of the BIANTE products!
I do have many other modelcar brands, but my collection is what it is due to the offerings of Biante products and their efforts in bringing Minichamps to Australia.
Given that no Biante staff member has ever said what you are saying, and in fact one is participating in this thread, then I'd say that this thread is fine.

Also, read the bit under the Biante Forum hyperlink here (http://forums.biante.com.au/index.php)...it says "This forum is for collectors of Diecast model cars in Australia to communicate with other collectors."...If the forum was meant to preclude non-Biante sold models, then I think that it should be put in that text...but as I read it ANY diecast models can be discussed!

[Designer]

People who know the shape of the real car do realise which one is the most accurate, never mind all the small detail.
If all the detail was also with the correct shape car the model would be sensational, sadly it is spread over the two.
since I display my cars I prefer the correct shape over the (small) detail.
**my oppinion**
If you prefer the CC cars, go to the CC website.

Without trying to cause a drama here...I know the shape of the VZ Supercar pretty well, actually, very well...and I know which one is closer to the real thing...sorry, but them's the facts.

[vr-x3500]

Designer, I think Ferrari Fan was refering to the 65E not the VZ V8SC.

[Leigh]

Only one person on this thread is discussing VZ Supercars...everybody else is talking XY...

The CC VZ in 1:18 may well be more accurate, but many don't think the CC XY is in any scale...

[ferrari fan]

Let me say this if I may, and again my own oppinion.
The newer V8 Super cars like the AU FORD,-- Holdens onwards from CC are VERY well done and do have, overall, the correct shape and sensational detail.
Sadly I do not collect them other than Bathurst winners.
The XR-XY ,the Old Monaro,s plus the Chargers are NOT correct in shape, sadly.
An Old well known competator even made it known publicly, I believe.
Another, even more well known Bathurst winner, does not want to have anything to do with his newly modelled car and refuses to sign/touch them.
BUT, He has signed many a BIANTE model and will continue to do so.

[brchi17]

.....Another, even more well known Bathurst winner, does not want to have anything to do with his newly modelled car and refuses to sign/touch them.
BUT, He has signed many a BIANTE model and will continue to do so.

Is that by choice, or a condition of his contract....???

[Richard Poole]

Is that by choice, or a condition of his contract....???

Choice.

[Footy]

Choice.

Thats what it all comes down to.;)

[singer]

OK, so Biante & CC both have versions of 65E.

As it happens I have both as I do have both of the 24HR Monaro Bathurst winners & the Chargers.

It is my decision to have both versions of each manufacturers model. Call me a pedant (which is what I am, if the truth be known). I like to see the differences in the manufacturing processes

It is a good thing that we can speak freely about various manufacturers on a Forum provide by Biante. It behooves us to keep the conversations clean & free from any anamousity.

It dissappoints me that there is so much bitterness/angst over which is the better version. We are VERY lucky to have manufacturers making these models for us in our comparatively small market.

For those who were unable (or unwilling to part with cash), at least they have another chance to purchase a part of Australia's Motor Racing history.

I beleive Biante's decision to concentrate on older vehicles rather the V8 sends the customers a direction which the Company sees its Business going.

At least, we have a CHOICE.

Be happy, & get over (what seems to be) your need for constant criticism.

As for AM's contract, thats his & Biantes business, not ours. If, AM doesn't wish to be associated with the CC model, that is his decision not ours. We don't know what his decision was based upon & it is not our right to know. If he wants, he will tell in due time.

Its just a bloody hobby, its not the end of the world. Well, I'll get off the Soap Box now:)

[zeitgeist]

I wonder ... if CC could put out their 65E without AM's permission, does that mean Biante could've done the same when they released theirs? In any event, it's a moot point because Biante had the foresight to enter into a contract with AM to get his "blessing" via the signed CoAs.

I am assuming that blessing came with remuneration; something I assume AM didn't get when CC released their version.

Does AM's refusal to sign CC's version primarily stem from a belief that the model doesn't properly represent the real thing or is it more of a "sour grapes" thing? Only he knows.

Whatever AM's dispute is with CC, it is unfortunate that he would allow it to carry over to his relationship with his fans. The average joe who presents him with the certificate from CC doesn't know the details. He's just a guy who wants a CoA signed by a driver he really likes.

BC

[Leigh]

So now that Ken's had his say, I vote we shut the forum, because really, there's nothing to talk about once you take into account his post:rolleyes:

Lucky we live in a free country!

[Leigh]

I am assuming that blessing came with remuneration; something I assume AM didn't get when CC released their version.
I think Brad's post was questioning this very assumption that everybody has made (and sorry Richard, but you're only ever going to get the contracted answer)...Is it really didn't or is it couldn't??? Who knows? Ken doesn't care...but the answer makes a huge difference...

Some of us don't see in black and white;)

[f1webber]

Its just a bloody hobby, its not the end of the world.

Well said. I think some people really need to lighten up a little.
We all have our choices and we should consider ourselves lucky that both Biante and CC's make this possible.

Cheers And Happy New Year everybody. :glasses2:

[biante11500]

Let me say this if I may, and again my own oppinion.
The newer V8 Super cars like the AU FORD,-- Holdens onwards from CC are VERY well done and do have, overall, the correct shape and sensational detail.
Sadly I do not collect them other than Bathurst winners.
The XR-XY ,the Old Monaro,s plus the Chargers are NOT correct in shape, sadly.
An Old well known competator even made it known publicly, I believe.
Another, even more well known Bathurst winner, does not want to have anything to do with his newly modelled car and refuses to sign/touch them.
BUT, He has signed many a BIANTE model and will continue to do so.

darn thats pretty deep, are you saying if we want and accurate detailed version of the older muscle cars we need to buy both brands??
pull the accurate body off the biante and mount it on the classics chassis and interior???
only problem is the AA hood & boot will still be floppy and the saggy door hinges will still be there. but it would fix the flat spotting tire problem, hard plastic interior problem, the engines would have intakes and carbs, and they would set better in stance, but they still wouldn't be perfect or accurate.
as far as the signed coa, couldn't give rats arse as i don't collect coas,
do collect both brands of models though and will have both versions of the 65e once my peorder arrives.

[215i]

I wonder ... if CC could put out their 65E without AM's permission, does that mean Biante could've done the same when they released theirs? In any event, it's a moot point because Biante had the foresight to enter into a contract with AM to get his "blessing" via the signed CoAs.

I am assuming that blessing came with remuneration; something I assume AM didn't get when CC released their version.

Does AM's refusal to sign CC's version primarily stem from a belief that the model doesn't properly represent the real thing or is it more of a "sour grapes" thing? Only he knows.

Whatever AM's dispute is with CC, it is unfortunate that he would allow it to carry over to his relationship with his fans. The average joe who presents him with the certificate from CC doesn't know the details. He's just a guy who wants a CoA signed by a driver he really likes.

BC

This also raises an interesting point that if CC can do the cars of unsigned drivers such as Moffat and Brock without legal issues, can biante do the same with the Perkins cars??

[singer]

I think Brad's post was questioning this very assumption that everybody has made (and sorry Richard, but you're only ever going to get the contracted answer)...Is it really didn't or is it couldn't??? Who knows? Ken doesn't care...but the answer makes a huge difference...

Some of us don't see in black and white

Leigh,


"So now that Ken's had his say, I vote we shut the forum, because really, there's nothing to talk about once you take into account his post"

Lucky we live in a free country!


Who died & made you God? You're a pot stirrer :rolleyes: You are making unfounded assumptions too.

It would appear that the only time Leigh takes the time to use his computer is to set the cat amongst the pigeons over issues which he selectively chooses.

Some people have asked the contactual question.

I've worked preparing contracts with non disclosure clauses etc, for more years than I care to remember. If you bothered to read the PMs I sent you(esp V2 with attachments which YOU asked for re Walkinshaw Bagging) The PMs were sent after you sent me a PM telling me that I'd be banned

Further, it was well known to the general Diecast world (if you ask a question people usually answer. As stores are required to order well in advance) that CC were making 65E.

More to the point, those who follow Australian Car Racing would know that AM was contracted to Ford (at the time ie 1971). The only fully paid contracted driver, at that juncture.

CC has Ford's permission to make the Car & as it was a Ford Team they didn't need AM's permission.

That situation changed when Ford pulled out of Motor Racing & Allan Moffat owned the Team. If CC were to make any of his Cars, they would need his permission.


Brett,

I don't know whether AM received any remunneration from CC, but from his decision to have nothing to do with the model, I would assume not. Why not ask him, @ allanmoffat.com.au You never know, you might get a response.

Cheers

[singer]

This also raises an interesting point that if CC can do the cars of unsigned drivers such as Moffat and Brock without legal issues, can biante do the same with the Perkins cars??

I think that you raise 2 issues here,


You will always need the Manufacturers permission
You will always need the Team owners permission.It is possible that Perkins has issues with both Companies as they've both made some of his teams cars.

[brchi17]

I think that you raise 2 issues here,


You will always need the Manufacturers permission
You will always need the Team owners permission.

Do you really need permission ???

I mean couldn't anyone make a Commodore or a Falcon, etc for argument sake 10 yrs down the track without either of those.....I'm not an expert but doesn't even copyright's have an expiry date ???

Yes this is a serious question/point.......

[jager]

I think that you raise 2 issues here,


You will always need the Manufacturers permission
You will always need the Team owners permission.

Not always. IXO got around both these issues for their series of 1:43 Le Mans winners because a condition of entry to the race was that teams/manufacturers waived their exclusive licenses and the events organiser (the A.C.O) held the rights to the intellectual property of the winners. Part of this logic was that the race cars were built to the specification of the race organiser, not the manufacturer.

In Australia, would CAMS hold any claim to the intellectual property of Bathurst entrants ? Like in Europe, Australian race cars as we know share very little in common with their road cars counterparts and are designed to the race organisers specifications. For example, could Holden claim any intellectual property to a current V8 supercar when it doesn't have a Holden engine, doesn't have a Holden front suspension, has 3rd party brakes, gearbox, clutch and wheels and even the bodywork has been substantially altered ?

[singer]

Do you really need permission ???

I mean couldn't anyone make a Commodore or a Falcon, etc for argument sake 10 yrs down the track without either of those.....I'm not an expert but doesn't even copyright's have an expiry date ???

Yes this is a serious question/point.......

I'll try to answer the question seriously and as I understand the technicalities

To run as a Commodore or a Falcon, you do need the Manufacturers permission as they own the intellectual copyright & as the names are in continuous use , so the length of the copyright increases. They have used legal sanctions to the detriment of 4 Australian Companies & 1 British Company to prevent the issue of models.

As I understand it both Companies use US copyright laws which differ much from those in Australia.

Take for instance the use of the image of Elvis, Marilyn Munroe. These two people have been dead many years but there are still people making money by owning the copyright.

My understanding is that it is all how the copyright laws have been manipulated.

For instance, Australians were getting Taiwanese/SEA body panels/lights/interior body fittings which substantially reduced the cost of insurance & lengthened the life of a Car on Australian roads. Ford & GM used legal sanctions to prevent the manufacture of 3rd party body parts. As a result insurance costs rose & the life of the average car reduced by about 6 months

It is my understanding that CAMS do not have the same arrangement as the French Motor Sport Governing body which cover LeMans. It is my understanding that CAMS do not hold any copyright in the vehicles.
The Team owners retain copyright to their vehicles

It is my understanding V8Supercars (or whatever they call themselves now) hold any claim to the intellectual property of Bathurst entrants, even Photos taken at all events

[Leigh]

It would appear that the only time Leigh takes the time to use his computer is to set the cat amongst the pigeons over issues which he selectively chooses.
Only to stop the pile created by the pigeons building too deep...

Most contracts have a non-disclosure clause, and assuming the Biante ones have this clause, this would prevent AM from stating that he can't endorse/be paid by CC (which would be in there as otherwise Biante could not claim "exclusive" use of AM's name)... thus, assuming this scenario correct, the only answer AM could give is that he does not endorse nor approve the CC product...any other response would automatically put him in breach of his existing contract...also, depending on his legal counsels advice, they may have even told him to not even sign the models, as that may be interpreted as a breach...all hypothetical of course...

I wonder if there is an end/out clause?

...and what is this stuff you claim to have sent??? Must have missed it in amongst the 1000+ PM's:rolleyes:

[ferrari fan]

Well , I did go for a drive to run in my new 351 and had a wonderfull time while this topic went Haywire!
I still expand the collection the model diecat cars of MY choice.
Long live the democracy!
One very famous and true saying is;
The biggest enemy of democracy is... democracy itself!

[singer]

Only to stop the pile created by the pigeons building too deep...

Most contracts have a non-disclosure clause, and assuming the Biante ones have this clause, this would prevent AM from stating that he can't endorse/be paid by CC (which would be in there as otherwise Biante could not claim "exclusive" use of AM's name)... thus, assuming this scenario correct, the only answer AM could give is that he does not endorse nor approve the CC product...any other response would automatically put him in breach of his existing contract...also, depending on his legal counsels advice, they may have even told him to not even sign the models, as that may be interpreted as a breach...all hypothetical of course...

I wonder if there is an end/out clause?




...and what is this stuff you claim to have sent??? Must have missed it in amongst the 1000+ PM's
Assuming the above is in his contract, hypothetically, he would already be in breach of Contract by selling his Coke & Brute 33 Mustangs with COA signed by AM through his Website.:confused:

As I pointed out in an earlier post "As for AM's contract, thats his & Biantes business, not ours. If, AM doesn't wish to be associated with the CC model, that is his decision not ours. We don't know what his decision was based upon & it is not our right to know. If he wants, he will tell in due time."

We now know 1 side as Richard Poole has stated Biante's position.:)

As for the PM's perhaps you should do some house cleaning.:rolleyes:

I've placed a confirmation on the PMs sent 31/10/06 and another PM 4 weeks ago. As yet you haven't read them otherwise they would come back as being read .

[Leigh]

Assuming the above is in his contract, hypothetically, he would already be in breach of Contract by selling his Coke & Brute 33 Mustangs with COA signed by AM through his Website.:confused:
Not if these were excluded from the contract...there was talk either here or on AM's website that these two fell outside the Biante contract...could have even been the Welly Website...but now that Biante and Welly have a deal...

As I pointed out in an earlier post "As for AM's contract, thats his & Biantes business, not ours. If, AM doesn't wish to be associated with the CC model, that is his decision not ours. We don't know what his decision was based upon & it is not our right to know. If he wants, he will tell in due time."
Here we go 'round the mulberry bush....:p

Sorry;)

We don't know, and my bet is we will never know, as that will either be locked away forever, or if the truth is that which has already been revealed then it will be open to endless speculation as per above...

[singer]

Here we go 'round the mulberry bush....

Sorry;)

We don't know, and my bet is we will never know, as that will either be locked away forever, or if the truth is that which has already been revealed then it will be open to endless speculation as per above...


AGREED:D :) BTW did you read the bit about working with Contracts for more years than I care to remember:confused:

[Dingo]

In Australia, would CAMS hold any claim to the intellectual property of Bathurst entrants ?
Probably not, depending on the year you are looking at. The IP of Group A and Super Touring would surely belong to the FIA, excepting local variants such as the Hyundai Lantra, etc. You may have a better argument when it comes to Group 3 V8 Supercars, as these rules are locally ratified by CAMS and (correct me if I'm wrong) sent to Paris for rubber-stamping, and likely for Group C also.

IIRC Ron Dennis was most displeased with the Ixo series making the McLaren :D

[ferrari fan]

The orginal orange (org colour) McLaren F1 made in 1/18 scale by UT had to be withdrawn as it was depicted as Ronnies actual road car including his number if I remember correctly.
UT did recall and brought a second edition out in Orange, a
slightly different model.
The Biante Diecast Collectors Club model is very much like that, but in silver.
Auto Art did bring out the AMG CL 55 Official F1 Safety car in 1/18, while Maisto or somebody else did have the license, this also was recalled and only a few escaped the crusher.
IXo did the Pug rally cars in 1/43 with to much you know what on them, also recalled and also very few if any escaped.
There must be many more.
They are a great theme to collect as they are not easy to get.

[Pug205]

IXo did the Pug rally cars in 1/43 with to much you know what on them, also recalled and also very few if any escaped.


Im going to have to play dumb here and ask which Peugeot models were these and what was wrong with them?

Sorry FF you are being to cryptic for me :confused: :o

[Tumbo]

There are a number of IXO 2003 Peugeot 206s from Monte Carlo with Marlboro signage. It is believed that these are official releases due to a different product no.???? But it is debatable that these are nothing more than code 3s, especially given when they were released and the strict EU tobacco laws

[ferrari fan]

RAM101 Peugeot 206 WRC#2
R. Burns Monte Carlo 2003.

[Pug205]

Ok thanks for that guys.
It does seem a bit weird that they would be official releases, why would IXO even have the Marlboro signage set up in their printing process since they would never be able to release such models anyway?

[Footy]

Emailed AM's site shall see what if any thing comes back.

[lachlan]

RAM101 Peugeot 206 WRC#2
R. Burns Monte Carlo 2003.


I have RAM101 with the white squares on it for the Marlboro sign's, then the second release didn't have the white squares. It never came out with Marlboro on it just the squares. (I hope that made sence?) If it has Marlboro on it someone put it on later (code 3?) or Maybe there are 3 versions, FF is it Tampo or decals?

[ferrari fan]

No just like you stated, white squares,

[toddy05]

lost me.....wasn't aware 65E had Marlboro sponsorship:>

[Pome]

Well, I personaly like my CC 65E and 64E in the same way I like my Biante Holden A9X 78 and 78 Bathurst winners. No model is correct, scale any one you like up to 1:1 and it will be "way out". It called the modelers art, you can rubbish any model you like if you want to but if you,ve give up your hard earned £ or Au$ for it must have liked it and to have people tell you its wrong when the other is no better is annoying. Both companies do a good job.
Are these people that are complaining; doing so because the higher price fetch by there particula brand model are now slowly coming down or because its just made by the other side. Because since the thread started I've looked at as many books & DVD's as I can; and can not see all these faults of wrong shape this or that yes the crhome suround is incorrect and the spoiler flat I've seen bigger faults. In writing this I have intentionaly tried to upset any one and applogize if I have

[whitlam]

Well, I personaly like my CC 65E and 64E in the same way I like my Biante Holden A9X 78 and 78 Bathurst winners. No model is correct, scale any one you like up to 1:1 and it will be "way out". It called the modelers art, you can rubbish any model you like if you want to but if you,ve give up your hard earned £ or Au$ for it must have liked it and to have people tell you its wrong when the other is no better is annoying. Both companies do a good job.
Are these people that are complaining; doing so because the higher price fetch by there particula brand model are now slowly coming down or because its just made by the other side. Because since the thread started I've looked at as many books & DVD's as I can; and can not see all these faults of wrong shape this or that yes the crhome suround is incorrect and the spoiler flat I've seen bigger faults. In writing this I have intentionaly tried to upset any one and applogize if I have

Have?:confused: shouldn't this be haven't?;)

[Pome]

Oops just put it down to "blonde moment", I did manage to string more than the usualy four words together in a mischives moment !

[rex555]

For those who are interested in correct details which distinguish one particular car from another, (simply fact not complaining)....A perusal of the VHS/DVD of "Racing History of Ford at The Great Race" shows without any shadow of doubt many times, both in the pits & on the track that the 65E car in 1971 & the 1D car in 1972 at Bathurst had a dark coloured piece of tape over the red stripe from rear of shaker to the windscreen trim strip. The 61E Baldwin Ford car in 71 had the same thing. Also Moffat employed the same tape on the 45D car, but not in the 61D XW nor on the #9 73 car. Used as an anti glare measure. As stated prior, an extremely easy fix for collectors wishing more accuracy re models not having this detail, cut a piece of black tape to size & apply.

I checked on the photo as I said way back when, taken just before the car crossed the finish line after it's victory lap with the chequered flag. It certainly shows the bonnet blacked out behind the shaker, as has been said. One thing that the picture also apears to show is that the black bonnet pin surrounds were not in place during the race. It looks as if there is nothing there other than the bonnet pins themselves and the recess where the surrounds should be. Can someone please clarify if the surrounds are on the CC model since they are certainly on the Biante version. Perhaps they were removed for ease of locking the bonnet down during the race or the original was damaged and these items were not added to the spare?

[BIGJIM]

yes the black surrounds are on the cc version.

[GTR XU-1]

In the latest issue of AMC there is a coloured pic of the 64E and it has got the stripes going upto the windscreen.

[malscar]

In the latest issue of AMC there is a coloured pic of the 64E and it has got the stripes going upto the windscreen.

Unfortunately it is a different car/year. The 1D car if you look at photos is the same as the 65e. With a lot of us modifying other cars with the banned advertising, there is nothing to stop us correcting this error.

No one seems to have mentioned how the boot is not able to open fully on the cc ones. (only noting it as I don't play with my cars, just display).At the end of the day, same as the argument raging over the extra $20 for the 956, will it really stop the collector from grabbing the 'must have' model? Not me.

[Footy]

Got a reply from Allan Moffat,

> Hello Mark
Thank you for your email and my apologies for not responding earlier but I
took a bit of a break over Christmas/New Year.

Let me clarify the Classic Carlectable 1971 65E XY GTHO Falcon.

This model was produced completely without my knowledge or consent. It
was not endorsed by me and I do not see it as part of 'my' collection, as
is the case with the Coca-Cola and Brut 33 Mustangs, and all the Biante
models produced so far (and into the future) and with whom I have a
contractural agreement.

I will never sign the Certificate or the Model itself.

Classic Carlectables produced this model for their own greedy gain and if
I had the energy or dollars would certainly take them to Court.

I hope this clarifies the situation for you.

Best regards

Allan Moffat

[younglion]

the man has spoken

[toddy05]

so who licensed it?
FoMoCo?
Interesting scenario...

[Oh Five]

Footy, i read this just after i posted a similar response on "what makes you happy"
regards, bruce.

[AmonFan]

Senario time ;) What id like to know is suppose i was rich :p. I go buy a Group C Touring car. In this class its encoraged that i run it in period livery with all the logos. As its a Historic meet, i can even run it with full "nasty stuff" livery. Now being a significant car, i reckon a model should be made of "My" car. So can it be made only with my and the Car Companies permission?????

[whitlam]

Senario time ;) What id like to know is suppose i was rich :p. I go buy a Group C Touring car. In this class its encoraged that i run it in period livery with all the logos. As its a Historic meet, i can even run it with full "nasty stuff" livery. Now being a significant car, i reckon a model should be made of "My" car. So can it be made only with my and the Car Companies permission?????

I hope you understand this:confused:

are you saying that they wouldn't be making a replica of the original car but a replica of your replica?

[AmonFan]

I hope you understand this:confused:

are you saying that they wouldn't be making a replica of the original car but a replica of your replica?

You cannot run a replica in Group C or A ;) however cars change hands and end up in different liveries and more often than not for obvious reasons the more well known paint scheme is used when restored ;)......

An example being the DJR XE that was used by DJ in the 83 race, it spent most of its Group C days in various forms of blue and white.

[Chev_350]

so who licensed it?
FoMoCo?
Interesting scenario...

exactly.......

[zeitgeist]

the man has spoken

I own the original, so it's no big thing to me, but it's a shame he's determined to take this attitude with fans who are not privy to the squabble.

BC

[singer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari fan http://forums.biante.com.au/images/buttons/viewpos t.gif (http://forums.biante.com.au/showthread.php?p=1748 55#post174855)
.....Another, even more well known Bathurst winner, does not want to have anything to do with his newly modelled car and refuses to sign/touch them.
BUT, He has signed many a BIANTE model and will continue to do so.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brichi17 Quote
Is that by choice, or a condition of his contract....???
__________________

Choice.

-------------------------------------------------

I spoke to AM today & he said that he would not touch the CC model nor any paraphanalia associated with it.

SMS/CC did not even approach him for any input when the model was under construction. It may have been a Ford Team but he tweaked the car to ensure performance without going outside the scrutinerring rules. So to put it mildly he feels a bit pissed off.

He did mention the contract with Biante to sign COA but that does not prevent him from signing anything, it is purely a CHOICE made by AM not to have anything to do with the CC product.

I hope this puts an end to the question.

[Dingo]

Senario time ;) What id like to know is suppose i was rich :p. I go buy a Group C Touring car. In this class its encoraged that i run it in period livery with all the logos. As its a Historic meet, i can even run it with full "nasty stuff" livery. Now being a significant car, i reckon a model should be made of "My" car. So can it be made only with my and the Car Companies permission?????
And because the replica would either contain or be missing certain elements that the original may or may not have run with... :D

[AmonFan]

And because the replica would either contain or be missing certain elements that the original may or may not have run with... :D

Are we talking replica models? as you are not able to run a replica in Group C, although some have tried to pust this point ;) The car must have an Origianl log book, or documented history, although this is rarely enough.....

[VXfan]

I own the original, so it's no big thing to me, but it's a shame he's determined to take this attitude with fans who are not privy to the squabble.

BC
Spot on mate.
Way to go Allan,how to alienate a large percentage of ur fans eh?:rolleyes:

[Dingo]

Are we talking replica models?
Or models of replicas :D

[Dingo]

Spot on mate.
Way to go Allan,how to alienate a large percentage of ur fans eh?:rolleyes:
If you were in Moffat's position, I somehow doubt that you would feel too much differently...

[AmonFan]

Or models of replicas :D

I wont get started on replicas of real cars ;) but an example of confusion was when a Marshall Brewer A9X turned up at Sandown one year in Brock Bill Patterson colours ;)

[VXfan]

If you were in Moffat's position, I somehow doubt that you would feel too much differently...
It's one thing to be pissed off with CC but to take it out on ur fans is something else.

[BB]

This reminds me of the Brock/Trax senario. As I understand it Trax were releasing Brock models without his consent or endorsment and PB threatened to sue if any more were produced. Hence they only did the 3 twin packs,(XU1, Monaro and Bill Paterson Torana's) the others (Sierra, VL etc) were all code 3's.
I wonder if Brocky still signed them?

[monarocveightz]

It's one thing to be pissed off with CC but to take it out on ur fans is something else.

Yeah i agree Tony, the fans might not know that CC made it without his permission or maybe the fans couldn't afford the Biante version. Iv'e got a CC 24HR Bathurst Monaro and PB signed it without any hassles

This reminds me of the Brock/Trax senario. As I understand it Trax were releasing Brock models without his consent or endorsment and PB threatened to sue if any more were produced. Hence they only did the 3 twin packs,(XU1, Monaro and Bill Paterson Torana's) the others (Sierra, VL etc) were all code 3's.
I wonder if Brocky still signed them?

Yes Brocky still signed them, there were a couple of the Bill Paterson Torana's in the packs that had been signed on ebay around the time of his passing

[Chev_350]

Yeah i agree Tony, the fans might not know that CC made it without his permission or maybe the fans couldn't afford the Biante version. Iv'e got a CC 24HR Bathurst Monaro and PB signed it without any hassles

why would he? GRM who owned the car have a CC contract?

[monarocveightz]

why would he? GRM who owned the car have a CC contract?


yes GRM has a contract with CC, but Brocky has (and some of the other drivers did at the time i think?) a contract with Biante.

just like Ford or whoever gave CC permission to make the 65E has a contract with CC, whilst Allan has one with Biante.

It shows that Brocky didn't really care if someone else gave CC permission to make the 24hr Monaro, but as we have heard Moffat does care that they don't ask him to make something with his name on it

Either way i don't think Moffat should take it out on the fans by not signing the COA ETC. (hope it makes sense:o )

[singer]

This reminds me of the Brock/Trax senario. As I understand it Trax were releasing Brock models without his consent or endorsment and PB threatened to sue if any more were produced. Hence they only did the 3 twin packs,(XU1, Monaro and Bill Paterson Torana's) the others (Sierra, VL etc) were all code 3's.
I wonder if Brocky still signed them?


Yes he did:D

[BB]

Yeah i agree Tony, the fans might not know that CC made it without his permission or maybe the fans couldn't afford the Biante version. Iv'e got a CC 24HR Bathurst Monaro and PB signed it without any hassles



Yes Brocky still signed them, there were a couple of the Bill Paterson Torana's in the packs that had been signed on ebay around the time of his passing

Say no more.:cry2:

[hobby]

Glad i managed to get my biante 65E signed on the roof by AM at Barbagallo a few years back.
Trevor Young was watching thought he was going to have a kitten

"OH NO NOT ON THE MODEL" was the look.

I also have a CC version.


.

[Hey Charger]

Let me offer an alternative perspective.....I can see Moffat’s position (like to get some financial recognition as it was he who made the car the legend and is associated with the vehicle). Beechey was the same.

Most drivers of that era may feel inadequately compensated for what they pioneered and with the current money being made on the nostalgia/model car boon, it can be viewed by them that its money being made by parties with no vested interests other than to make a buck off their sweat & tears and would like a cut to which I agree.

Peter, I believe, was the exception. He did financially well and hence it really didn’t bother him nor care if he put his sig on other products not endorsed or sponsored by his various agreements. He may well have done it to keep the fans happy but knowingly ignoring the silly rules that society works by these days. You're sponsored or sign an agreement with a company/product you're under pressure to not be associated or put your moniker on someone else’s product as it may be viewed as an endorsement or you're indirectly supportingit. We see this with many sports people swapping hats to promote their sponsors products or being decked out in their logos.

The point I would like to get across as the thread seems to be focused on Allan is that Allan may well be aggrieved not being able to get his cut from CC and IMHO has every right to!! In his opinion he is upholding an agreement with Biante to support their product solely (which is great if I was in Biantes shoes as it further differentiate their products from the CC's) and hence will do right by them as they did right by him. So what is wrong with that? okay sends the wrong impression to fans who honeslty want his sig but he will sign a book or a peice of paper without a doubt (tho he is an impatient about it). Why should he be expected to sign something that didn't do right by him?

The Q that need to be asked is how did CC produce a model when Biante says its got the license. CC say it has met all the legal requirements (see other forum). To me it seems that Ford permitted it under a different title to which provided the legal avenue to these models to be produced. So at end of day, for us little people the real story of who is right, wrong, illegal, obtuse etc etc will never be revealed for some time, so buy what you like irrespective of what’s going on. If you have a vested interested in making money or view your collection as an investment (which im sure some people do) then worry. If you have that kind of perspective you’re a silly bugger as you’re better off on the share market/Super as returns outstrip the returns on collectables.

At the end I bought the CC model and they have done a wonderful job with it (barring the QA issues) in terms of it being more accurately representing that legendary car, but that’s to be expected. I'm sure Biante, when they do the car again celebrating its 40th anniversary Bathurst win (hint hint) it will be superior to the CC version.

Cheers