Congratulations- Mr Polities & Ford

[ewan]

A big congrats & thankyou to Mr Ploities and all at ford for their Wheels car of the year. Im sure all ford fans who have stayed positive through this hard period look forward to the next year.

[SWRT]

First it was 2 NRMA's best cars awards and now wheels car of the year.Revenge back for the 1979 award and Fords first COTY since the XR Falcon in 1967.
Congragualations ford.
Next will probably bring some big motorsport sucess.
What views do Holden fans have on Fords victory in Wheels car of the year?
Interesting comments made by one of the judges on the news.
"There are very little to no changes in the VY since the VT".

[chups]

as a die hard holden fan i could brag about all the other awards holden have won over ford, but im not going to. CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. congratulations ford and mr Polities. its obviousely been shown that the BA is seen as better than the VY. (NRMA and WHEELS) i still like the VY better but thats just me, im not a mechanic, nor have i driven both. i do like the in glass aerial idea though and think it will make it into all cars in the next few years. now the competition is getting closer, should make this more interesting now. bring it on.

[HDT 4 EVER]

I think the real proof will be on the track. if they can't beat holden next year then the car of the year award won't be much of a victory. after all the money they have put into it. as holden have had a lot of success with sale's and v8 supercar's for so long.

daryl

[terrine]

i get all excited and then i remeber the leyland P76

oh well

peter

[v8coupe]

This is how I see it.
* Holden - if ain't broke, don't fix it.
* Ford - had no choice but to release a new model.

Can still see holden winning more races next year.

[BATHURSTFAN]

Chups,

go on, brag about Holden, are you talking about only in Australia or AROUND THE WORLD?

Leave our shores and mention the name Holden and most people won't know what you're talking about.

HDT 4 EVER,

I don't see the relationship between getting the Car Award and not having success on the track making the award "not much of a victory".

I'm sure the judges wouldn't have considered the racing aspects of the vehicle, it would have been on other criteria.

[loste_treasures]

anyone heard of a saying which goes like this.....

what wins on sunday will sell on monday....

[BATHURSTFAN]

Thats all it is, a SAYING

Fleet sales, private and governments buy a large percentage of these cars, don't tell me they will care if they "win on Sunday"

I've yet to meet a person (one with commonsense who can tell there is no relationship between a race car and a production car) that will rush out and buy a car because it won a race.

[loste_treasures]

i think you will find that in all sectors of new car buying that holden has come first......

if holden and ford did not beleive in this saying they would not be pumping huge dollars into the sport without any major returns...

[BATHURSTFAN]

Of course they are pumping money into racing, its called ADVERTISING.

Yes Holden are selling more cars in AUSTRALIA and maybe NZ, but where else?

[7Litre]

Let's settle the dust and give credit were credit is due.
All I can say is It's about time that the 'Boys at the Blue Oval Plant' got it right and 'Good on Them'.

[ducksguts]

i get all excited and then i remeber the leyland P76


Didnt the JB camira also take out this award?

[john]

Well done Ford, but as a Holden man I really believe this award came more out of sympathy rather than anything else. The BA might be a good car, but the AU was good technologically as well, only the looks let it down. Let's face it , this model was Fords last throw of the dice, and you rolled a double, congrats.

[Aussiecollector]

Calm down Bathurst fan, we are only talking about two Australian cars not the global picture of both Ford and GM. But if we must go global how many Fords (ie Falcons are sold overseas other than Tassie and NZ (diddily squat) how many HSV's and Commodores (thousands). How many Falcons have been ordered for the US market to be sold under another brand (once again SQUAT) Holden's (AKA Pontiac GTO) as many as we can send them.

So have another think about it, FORD many have one the awards but lets see at the end of next year who has the sales on the board and the most numbers of recalls, these are the only two ways to effectively measure the success of a car. I believe Falcon is already winning in the recall race with (1) so far.

Glenn

[GRPIII]

SO THE VY HASNT CHANGED MUCH SINCE THE VT.
SO IF THE VT WAS A WINNER, DOES THIS MEAN THE VY IS A WINNER ALSO,
WITH THE BA FALCON IT ISNT MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THE AU EITHER, A FEW MINOR SUSPENSION CHANGES BUT STILL ON THE SAME BODYSHELL, THE ONLY MAJOR CHANGE IS THE TURBO 6, BUT FOR THE SO CALLED WHEELS CAR OF THE YEAR, WHICH HAS ALREADY HAD A RECALL FOR THE SIDE AIRBAGS AS MENTIONED, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE GEARBOX THESE TURBO FALCONS GO THRU.
A FRIEND HAS ALREADY HAD HIS THIRD GEARBOX REPLACED ALREADY & EVEN THE DEALER SAID THIS IS A MAJOR PROMBLEM.
ANOTHER POINT FORD WILL NOT FIT A TOWBAR PACKAGE TO A TURBO UTE CAUSE OF THE TURBOS BURNING OUT.
ALL OF THIS ON WHEELS CAR OF THE YEAR.
WILL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE IF THIS AWARD WILL BOOST FORD SALES, EITHER WAY COMMODRE WILL BE ON TOP IN SALES & ON THE RACETRACK.

[A9L]

Originally posted by SWRT
First it was 2 NRMA's best cars awards and now wheels car of the year.Revenge back for the 1979 award and Fords first COTY since the XR Falcon in 1967.
Congragualations ford.
Next will probably bring some big motorsport sucess.
What views do Holden fans have on Fords victory in Wheels car of the year?
Interesting comments made by one of the judges on the news.
"There are very little to no changes in the VY since the VT".


To give the falcon car of the year,with a recall and poor fuel economy,the rest of the cars must be **** heaps!!!!!!!!!

[brchi17]

GRPIII,
I think there are a lot of Ford people who might think otherwise !!
When I think of the past winners of the COTY award, I shake in fear thinking the Barra could be like some of the past winners (P76, Magna & Camria come to mind) or it could actually be a good car Like the VT (another past winner of the COTY)!!!
As to the critera of what is selected as a short list I think needs to be taken into considersation when we look at the winner. After a very, very, quick flick throught Wheels this morning, I saw the the only car that came close was the Mazda 6 - how you can compare this to a Falcon is anyone's guess !!!
Without the Commodore (and i suppose the V6 Camry's & Magna's) for some competition, no wonder the Falcon won.
Even being a Ford fan, I think I will definately wait another 18 months or so, before I even think about turning my EL into a Barra (hopefully they should have all of the bugs ironed out by then).
For me, the Barra will only be a success when it wins on the racetrack.
Cheers

[drof]

I am a Ford Man thru and thru, but the sales figures have put Toyota at the top here in NZ for 13 years, yes you read it right 13 years. Ford came close last year, but at the end no cigar. The new BA Falcon range seems to be getting the edge over the VY Commodore at the moment and they still have'nt release the potent XR8's and the GT yet. Finally the worm has gone 360 degrees and its Ford's turn back on top, on the road and hopefully on the racetrack.

Regards

Dave from Kiwiland!!

[biante1478]

My first post, but couldn't let some of the nonsense posted here go unanswered...

"THE BA FALCON IT ISNT MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THE AU EITHER, A FEW MINOR SUSPENSION CHANGES BUT STILL ON THE SAME BODYSHELL, THE ONLY MAJOR CHANGE IS THE TURBO 6"

New = 4.0L DOHC, 4.0L DOHC Turbo, 5.4L DOHC V8, Control Blade IRS, sheetmetal, drive-by-Wire throttle control, instrument panel and display centres, dual zone airconditioning, seats, side Airbags, sensor parking, glass mounted aerial, adjustable pedals, and much more.

"BUT WHAT ABOUT THE GEARBOX THESE TURBO FALCONS GO THRU. A FRIEND HAS ALREADY HAD HIS THIRD GEARBOX REPLACED ALREADY & EVEN THE DEALER SAID THIS IS A MAJOR PROMBLEM."

BS!

ANOTHER POINT FORD WILL NOT FIT A TOWBAR PACKAGE TO A TURBO UTE CAUSE OF THE TURBOS BURNING OUT.

Wrong again !

Suggest you get some facts before making ill-informed/ignorant comments.

[the_goldie]

Wow !!
dual zone A/C .. sweet ..
sensor parking .. no more scratched bumpers or rims when parking
glass mounted aerial .. cool no more bent aerials from vandals
also I like how the window washer spray jets are not on the bonnet anymore...
I also like the idea of the pedals but heard they don't offer it on manuals - which is a bummer because if they can offer on manuals that would mean I wouldn't need to squeeze into my car after my wife has driven the car after having the seat so close so she can push the clutch in - how about we just get clutchless manuals or even better seats that adjust for the key being used to unlock the car (I think the calais has this?)

One more thing on the body of the BA - is it that much different to the AU? It still looks very similar even though for some reason it does look better.

Being a Holden fan - lets hope Holden integrate these into their cars in the future.... can anyone enlighten the forum as to the new features in the VY?

[brchi17]

From my knowledge of the Barra,
It is slightly wider & may have a slightly different wheel base to that of the AU (only the doors have been carried over from the AU).
It can't be much but just enought, as I heard on V8 Superstars on Sunday, that because of these suttle differences the AU can not be upgraded to a Barra.
I hope this helps & if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me,
cheers.

[GT40]

"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"

Very interesting, I don't know of many Holdens you can buy on Monday that have Chevy engines & FORD Diffs!

I'd just like to see the Holdens raceing with Holden diffs, then see how many races they even finish in, let-a-lone win.:p

[PhaseIIIFord]

Well done Ford we have been waiting for major changes to these cars for a long time. I did like the tickford AU but we still some suspention changes. Now lets take it to the Holdens.

Mark ur one eyed Ford man

[HDT 4 EVER]

Bathurst fan this award is only the magazine's opinion. anyone can say one car looks better than the other let's see in sale's figure's in a year's time holden didn't need a new model to beat ford i think holden just wanted something to do as they have one everything else.

[HDT 4 EVER]

Originally posted by drof
I am a Ford Man thru and thru, but the sales figures have put Toyota at the top here in NZ for 13 years, yes you read it right 13 years. Ford came close last year, but at the end no cigar. The new BA Falcon range seems to be getting the edge over the VY Commodore at the moment and they still have'nt release the potent XR8's and the GT yet. Finally the worm has gone 360 degrees and its Ford's turn back on top, on the road and hopefully on the racetrack.

Regards

Dave from Kiwiland!! drof as if we didn't no your a ford man with all the sooking & dribble you have come up with over the past year about holden.

[BATHURSTFAN]

Aussiecollector,

About the recall, a lot of new cars with major changes have this occur - ITS NOT UNUSUAL.

I drive new Fords and Commodores all the time as I have use of Government cars.

The Ford AU XLS Utes (not all, but a few) have had front end problems, in Commodores ABS & Electrical problems have occurred.

Recalls and sales measure the success?, You left out one major factor - price, new & resale. This is what Governments, Hire Companys etc will look for.

Ford will always struggle for buyers against Holden sales as Holden have a much larger supporter base, therefore they are much more popular irrespective of which is a better car.

Overseas? I was talking about the Companies (Ford vs GM) overall, not C'Dore vs Falcon, and what each has achieved historically.

Glenn

[brchi17]

I think we all know as to why Holden have a larger supporter base, i think it has something to do with a lack of Ford V8's from 1983 to 1992!
I'm 26 & none of my mates are Ford people (need to find some new ones !!!) as they all love the old V8 Holdens (can't understand why myself) because at the time they were the only poeple making them (and racing them for that matter) while we were growing up. I still don't see many people driving Cosworth Sierra's, but those dam V8 Commodores are everywhere. Maybe in 5 yrs time or so when todays young teenagers are driving, we might see a change back towards Ford. Until then, I fear that Ford may find a very steep hill to climb, if it wants to return to the top.
cheers.

[GRPIII]

BIANTE 1478
THOUGHT ID GET MY FACTS STRAIGHT!
THATS RIGHT MY MATES LYING ABOUT 3 GEARBOXS HES HAD & THE OTHER RECALL IN WHICH FORD HAS CALLED.
AS I SAID NOT MANY CHANGES FROM THE AU.
ALL MAINLY COSMETIC.
PARKING SENSORS & A GLASS MOUNTED AERAIL(WOW) WHAT A DIFFERENCE THESE LITTLE THINGS WILL MAKE. OH YOU FORGOT TO MENTION THE NEWLY CONSEALED WASHER NOZZLES, DONT FORGET THOSE!!!
CONTROL BLADE IRS STILL ONLY A MINOR UPGRADE FROM AU SUSPENSION , NEW SHEETMETAL, SAME AS THE VY.
INSTRUMENT & DISPLAY PANEL, SAME AS VY UPGRADE ALSO.
DUAL AIR CON, VERY MINOR DETAIL INDEED.
SEATS, LOOKED IN A VY LATELY.
HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE BACK OF THE BA WAGON, GEE THAT LOOKS LIKE A TOTALLY DIFFERNET CAR AGAIN.
SO THE ONLY REAL MAJOR CHANGES ON THE BA ARE YES THE MOTORS, BUT FOR 500 MILLION ITS STILL A VERY COSTLY UPGRADE, CAUSE THATS ALL IT IS, ITS LIKE A VX TO VY, OR VP TO VR, EB TO EF. IT STILL ONLY AN UPGRADE.
THE WHEEL TRACK MAY BE SLIGHTY DIFFERENT DUE TO SOME SUSPENSION MODS BUT YES IT IS STILL BASED MAINLY ON THE AU.
I HAVE GOT MY FACTS RIGHT, I WORK IN THE MOTORING INDUSTRY & HAVE SEEN & WORKED ON THESE UPGRADED AU JUST LIKE I HAVE WORKED ON THE UPGRADED VX, THE VY.

[Dazz]

Originally posted by GT40
"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"

Very interesting, I don't know of many Holdens you can buy on Monday that have Chevy engines & FORD Diffs!

I'd just like to see the Holdens raceing with Holden diffs, then see how many races they even finish in, let-a-lone win.:p

I went down to my local Ford dealership the other day to buy a Falcon just like Craig Lowndes drives, but it didn't have a Holinger 6-speed gearbox, Nascar engine, MoTeC engine managemennt system, AP/Brembo racing brakes, solid rear axle, spooled Harrop diff centre, fully adjustable suspension, 120 litre fuel tank, 17x11" wheels or anything?

I also went into the spare parts department and asked about a 9" diff for the Falcon, hmmm current BA Falcon doesn't have one of those either. Please explain????????

(note: the above is written with some sarcasm and not meant to be taken offensively or too seriously :) )

[rowdydave]

NEWS FLASH

Reuters. AAP. - Violence erupted today in the Island Continent of Australia, when a local car manufacturer, FORD, had a new upgraded Falcon awarded Car of the Year.

FORD had spent around $500 million on the upgraded BA series Falcons in an effort to bridge the large gap it has behind another manufacterer, HOLDEN.

An unknown source said violence was sparked after a message congratulating FORD was found on a discussion forum on a well known model car web site. Supporters from both camps traded blows on the forum, each trying to better the other with amazing stories of first hand accounts, facts, figures and rampant chest beating. This reporter then decided that "I couldn't give a FAT RAT'S A#@E they're only cars, I've got better things to do."

Rowdydave.

[GT40]

Dazz - No offence taken.

The only point I was trying to make (and I may be wrong) is that I don't belive that the Fords run with any 'Holden' components but the Holdens have been running with a least 1 'Ford' component.

Again, I may well be wrong, as I love the sport & collecting the models, but am not into the finer specs of the car set ups.

I did the V8 experience with Mal Rose at Oran park last year and he happened to mention that the Holdens all ran with a Ford diff.

NB: I highly recommend a day at Oran park with Mal for anyone, a truly terrifying and at the same time exhilarating experience. (cured any thought I had of being a race driver)

[Dazz]

That's cool I was just being my usual sarcastic self :)

To be absolutely correct, the differential used has the diff carrier designed and built by Harrop engineering, the diff centre uses a full spool which various teams machine up themselves, and the ring and pinion gears used are 9" in size but not necessarily a Ford product as there are a few companies who manufacture these gear sets.

As far as the Fords go, they have been running with the Holden Commodore lower spoiler and front undertray design this year, so maybe that evens up the using each others parts count :)

[biante1478]

GRPIII

OK, if you have worked on a BA, then I guess you're entitled to your own opinion, even if it is different to every review that has been published on the car.

On your mates XR6T -- I have some contacts at FMC who may be able to help. Send me the SIDO number and I'll have them look into it.

[GRPIII]

BIANTE 1478
SORRY DONT NEED ANYONE AT FORD TO LOOK INTO IT.
DOESNT FAZE ME, CAUSE ITS NOT MY CAR.
HE SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT A HOLDEN:)
THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE WAS, WHY WAS THE VY HOLDEN NOT IN THE RUNNING FOR WHEELS CAR OF THE YEAR, YES I DO KNOW HE ANSWER, BUT CAUSE ITS TO MUCH LIKE THE PREVOUIS MODELS IS (edited by Richard Poole)
IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY THE VR & VS MODELS WERE BOTH IN THE RUNNING FOR THE AWARD & ONE OF THE ABOVE EVEN WON (I THINK).
TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC MOST PEOPLE COULDNT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.
I THINK WHEELS HAS MADE A MAJOR BLUNDER(MY OPINION),SO IF FORD HASNT RELEASED A NEWER MODEL NEXT YEAR, THE BA FALCON WONT BE IN THE RUNNING FOR THE AWARD, BUT THE VY SHOULD BE, IS THIS A NEW CONSPIRACY IN THE AUSTRALIAN MOTORING INDUSTRY.
JUST A THOUGHT.
THE AWARD IS FOR WHEELS CHOICE OF THE CAR OF 2002
THAT SHOULD BE OPEN TO ALL VEHICLES FOR THIS YEAR, NEW MODEL OR NOT

[biante1478]

GrpIII

I have no issue with your complaint about the ineligibilty of the VY Commodore for WCOTY (it wouldn't have won anyway), but your original post was more an attack on the BA Falcon and included accusations that the XR6T blows transmissions and can't be used for towing.

I work at the Ford Motor Company. I checked with both the Engineering and Warranty departments this morning and they do not have any knowledge of an XR6T on its fourth transmission. If there is one, we'd certainly like to know about it. Please send me the SIDO or rego or even the name of the Dealer.

[GRPIII]

IF I KNEW THE DEALER BIANTE I'D GIVE IT TO YOU.
AS I SAID IT WAS A FRIEND OF MINE WHO I HADNT SEEN FOR YEARS, HE NOW LIVES IN THE CITY & IM OUT IN WESTERN SYDNEY, HIS GIRLFRIEND CRASHED HER CAR SO HE RECOMMENED ME TO FIX IT, SO I ONLY SPOKE TO DANIEL FOR A FEW MINUTES WHEN HE DROPPED HIS GIRLFRIEND OFF TO PICK HER CAR UP. DURING ALL THE CHIT CHAT HE ASKED WHAT I WAS DRIVING NOW & VISA VERSA, BA FALCON UTE (TURBO) ASKED WHO IT WAS GOING, SAID IT WAS ON THIRD GEARBOX (NOT FOURTH) & HE WAS VERY DISSAPPOINTED HE COULDNT GET A TOWBAR FITTED, THE DEALER ADVISED HIM ABOUT THE PROBLEMS WITH THE TURBO/TOWBARS.
RIGHT OR WRONG THATS THE IMFORMATION I WAS GIVEN.
THE VY MIGHT NOT HAVE WON WCOTY BUT THE RIGHT TO BE A CONTENDER IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
YOU FOR ONE SHOULD KNOW, BY WORKING AT FORD.
WAS THE AU A CONTENDER FOR WCOTY LAST YEAR?
IF SO, IT WASNT ANY DIFFERENT TO SERIES 1 OR SERIES 2 AU OF PREVOIUS YEARS, SO BY WHEELS GUIDE LINES IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A CONTENDER, LIKE A LOOK OF OTHER VEHICLES.
DONT START ME ON DEALERS CAUSE I COULD GIVE YOU A FEW DELEARS NAME WHERE THERE SPARE PARTS SERVICES ARE R.S!
HOPE I HAVENT AFFENDED YOU OR ANYONE, THESE FORUMS ARE FOR FUN, I FOR ONE TAKE MY MOTORSPORT PASSIONALTY, JUDGING BY YOU REPLY, I THINK YOU DO TOO.
WHICH IS GOOD TO SEE, EVEN IF YOUR SITTING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE FENCE.

[brchi17]

From memory, don't all those V8 supercars all run the Ford 9 inch diff ?
So the Ford front wishbones will make two good reliable parts on the Commodore !!!!!!!!!

[chups]

doent the front facia on the ford AU touring cars look familiar? thats right its from the VT. and its not just cosmetic, it forms alot of the aerodynamic factors for downforce on the front end. and also, i hate it when people use ford usa to compare to holden (australia) correct me if im wrong but the ford touring cars dont have a ford australia engine in them the fords run a ford engine, the GM runs a GM engine, whats wrong with that? if GM chose to give their different divisions different names, then people should find out facts first.

[GRPIII]

Chups you've hit the nail on the head!!
as for BRCHI17 comments, i think AVESCO should of put mcpherson struts in the falcon instead of wishbone in the commodores, now the commodore are going to have just as many suspension faliures as the falcons & havent they had a few since the introduction of the of the v8s, can think of quite a few just a bathurst. bowe's had a couple in ozemail &at djr.
wishbone are not just out in falcons, hrt's soon to be released HRT427 has wishbone suspension so the case of fords front suspension in a holden now a non related issue.

[Dazz]

Originally posted by brchi17
From memory, don't all those V8 supercars all run the Ford 9 inch diff ?
So the Ford front wishbones will make two good reliable parts on the Commodore !!!!!!!!!

About the diff, see my earlier post.

And if you can walk into a Ford dealers spare parts dept and buy the same front end as what is in the V8 Supercars then I will give you a million dollars :)

By the way, is this the same awesome front end that the Falcon guys have been whinging about for years?

[brchi17]

Originally posted by Dazz
And if you can walk into a Ford dealers spare parts dept and buy the same front end as what is in the V8 Supercars then I will give you a million dollars :)

Better get that cheque ready Daz, as I'm off to Ford to earm me my million.
cheers.

[SWRT]

The VY only has copyed the BA by putting the window washers out of view but still keeps the useless "old style" ariel and 70's cutting edge Opel Inpedendent IRS.

[SWRT]

The VY only has copyed the BA by putting the window washers out of view but still keeps the useless "old style" ariel and 70's cutting edge Opel Inpedendent IRS.
Looks like alot of ugly sticks hit it on the road.:o

[toecutter]

There's a word that sends Holden fans into denial. OPEL

[sboland]

There's also a word that sends Ford fans into denial...BATHURST!!

[GRPIII]

thats why commodore has out sold falcon,magna & camry for how many years?

[Dazz]

Originally posted by brchi17


Better get that cheque ready Daz, as I'm off to Ford to earm me my million.
cheers.

Have you ever heard the term "it is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool, as opposed to opening your mouth and proving it beyond a doubt"?

Just thinking how many die cast models I can buy when you give me the million after finding out by your local friendly dealer that all of the Supercars use a fully fabricated front end :)

[brchi17]

Well Daz,
You've just got to go to the right one - Try the one that is selling the Ford racing bodyshells, for example.

My responce was that a Falcon supercar runs a wishbone front end, just as the road as does.

It would be taken for granted that all of the car would be upgraded, strenghten, etc..., to cope with the punishment of racing.

Go & walk into any Ford dearler & I'm sure they will sell you a wishbone front end, if you want to use it for racing, then you'll need to go to the right one - Try Southside Ford in Queensland, who specalise in Ford Motorsport products.

Perhaps you should take a leaf out of your own book when you write responces on this forum & keep your derogatory, unwelcomed comments to yourself.

My responce was such of being lighthearted, be it appears that it has not been taken in the spirt of which it was writern in.
If you've got a problem with it, get over it & move on.
cheers.

[SWRT]

First Wheels car of the year and now victory at the Sandown V8 Utlimate.Great way to cap off a great week for FORD.

[sboland]

The COTY that Wheels does is an absolute croc of sh#t.
How the hell do they know if the car doesnt turn out to be a lemon.Already 3 recalls for the BA Falcon,and it was only released a month or so ago.Have anyone seem the team Wheels put together to do the COTY,what a joke!

[sboland]

Forgot to mention...Well done to Mr Ambrose.

[Dazz]

brchi17, my post was not meant to be seriously derogatory to you or anyone else, hence the smiley face at the end, but I do appologise if it read that way.

You can look through the forums and you will find that I do not get off on personally attacking people, that is not what these forums are all about.

I do not have any bias towards Ford or Holden, but do get mildly annoyed when debates in these forums are based on half truths at best, and those amongst us who are not as educated on such matters are then convinced that these stories are true.

Some people honestly believe that the suspension components, engines and diffs in the V8 Supercars are the same as in your garden variety Falcon or Commodore, which as you know is not true.

I would have thought the fact that somebody goes to the trouble to explain about these things in an effort to give interested people more knowledge that it would be welcomed.

I know some people have a problem with the truth as it does not suit their particular bias towards the manufacturer they support, but that is tough luck in my eyes.

These forums can be a great place to learn about things we are interested in, to improve our knowledge and understanding, and have some great debates about things we are passionate about, without overstepping the mark and getting too personal.

Once again, sorry if my words read a little harsher than they were meant to sound, and hopefully we can get back to debating about which car has more of their competitors components in them that the other in a light hearted but factual manner.